2009-03-16, 15:22 | Link #21 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Except that momentum doesn't work like that. Ever tried to stop in mid-swing? It's impossible to stop immediately, and you're even exerting counterforce in stopping.
That's why I'd like someone who reads the novel to shed light on this. |
2009-03-16, 15:26 | Link #22 |
*(RAWR*)&rawr
Join Date: Dec 2005
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We have joints. A giant, heavy, solid block of rock (what the golem become when Touma touched it) does not. The main, stationary body was too heavy and too firmly attached to the arm (there's your counterforce) at that moment for the moving arm to effect significant motion once the golem was de-animinated.
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Last edited by KaneDragon; 2009-03-16 at 15:37. |
2009-03-16, 15:49 | Link #23 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Except that the stance of the golem (right hand punch, right leg behind, bending over) does not allow for proper balance, much less proper counterforce, and by all means the fist should have carried on and dragged the golem down with it. And this is excluding the fact that the fist Touma stopped was weighted down more then the rest of its body prior to the punch.
Personally, I prefer to explain it the other way around. Touma could cancel the 'vector change' in the steel bars being thrown at him, but that still wouldn't change the fact that... well... those would be steel bars heading towards him. Gravity is a powerful mistress, and Vector Change or not, having a steel bar fall on top of you is going to cause serious pain. Last edited by Keroko; 2009-03-16 at 16:40. |
2009-03-16, 19:10 | Link #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
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^ I believe what others are saying is that the monster is drastically supplied by magic.
It's too bulky to move, and therefore needs constant source of power. Vector change, on the other hand, only needs to work once. After an object changes direction, or goes at twice the speed from the collision hax, it's no longer due to esper power. |
2009-03-17, 13:32 | Link #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: all and none
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honestly does anyone have the actual novel version of what happened in that scene as it could easily be a production oversight.
i'm leaning towards that the golems foward motion should have still caused it to crumple forward killing touma in the angle displayed by the anime even if the magic source was cut off.
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2009-03-17, 21:04 | Link #27 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I think from a physic perspective that the golem could not move the way it did and still hold to geather magic must have been caceling a lot of the forces acting on it. By touching it Touma stoped it's motion and since magic had to cancel a lot of the momentum before it stoped moveing Newton's first law took over.
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2009-04-15, 11:29 | Link #28 | |
The Faceless One
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Touma: "This right hand... this is the "Imagine Breaker"! It has an ability to negate any attacks or effects such as railguns and God's work" In anime he also confirmed that he can stop the railgun. I think that the reason why Touma ain't stoping objects thrown by Accelerator is because they are much heavier then a coin so even tough they woudn't hit him since the force would be nullified, they might still fall on him if they are at a certain angle when they are touched. |
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2009-04-15, 11:34 | Link #29 | |
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
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2009-04-15, 11:55 | Link #30 | |
The Faceless One
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1. At no point did I mention Railgun manga 2. In both TAMNI manga and anime, Touma tells Index that he CAN stop railguns. I even gave you the chapter and page numbers. Obviously, he has stoped the railgun before the bridge scene in anime and manga(which, as novels confirmed, was NOT their first meeting). Hopefuly, BT will translate novel #1, chapter 1 soon so we will be able to confirm if what he said to Index is canon. 3. If the scene with Index was translated well, then Touma doesn't nulify the ability, but the effect of the ability. Thus, he can nulify the acceleration created by psychic abilities. The difference betewen a coin and the objects that Accelerator threw at him is the fact that even if he stops those objects, some of them might fall on him. |
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2009-04-15, 12:22 | Link #33 | |
Takao Tsundere Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Classified
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Toma can never block Mikoto's Railgun. He will either get injured or die from it. Your sources are incorrect and your just assuming by your own conclusions. THIS THE FINAL TIME I GONNA SAY IT LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD HAS SAID BEFORE: Toma. Cannot. Block. Mikoto's. Railgun. No more questions. That's it. Over. Zip it.
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2009-04-15, 12:51 | Link #34 | |
The Faceless One
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I wanted to reply about how I never mentioned the bridge scene and that I mentioned the dialogue betewen Index and Touma in anime and mangawhen I, out of curiosity, checked the translated prologue and...
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As for the Railgun manga canonnes, the author of TAMNI himself is part of the To Aru Kagaku no Railgun staff as he himself mentioned in the manga, probably the storymaker but I am not sure. Last edited by Nayrael; 2009-04-15 at 13:03. |
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2009-04-15, 14:44 | Link #35 |
Portable Dude Mk. II
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights.
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... Is it safe for me to assume that Touma can block the electricity current that accelerates the coin Mikoto used as a projectile but not the speeding coin itself?
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2009-04-15, 14:49 | Link #36 |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Until recently, yes. But now that we've discovered that all sources say that Touma can block Mikoto's Railgun blast? No. According to this interesting news (why we hadn't discovered this until now is beyond me ) Touma can block a Railgun blast, meaning that the moment he touches the coin, the entire acceleration process created by her powers is halted, and the coin is stopped.
The reason why he couldn't do the same with the steel bars being dropped on top of him was because... well... they were steel bars. Even if he did cancel their vector change, they were still steel bars. Steel bar + gravity = squishy Touma. Since words don't seem to punch through, here are the screens/pages in question: To Aru Kagaku no Railgun manga chapter 07 page 09: To Aru Majutsu no Index manga chapter 02 page 15: To Aru Majutsu no Index anime episode 01, 11:20 mark: So it's final. All three sub-sources and the original novel have confirmed that Touma can block a Railgun blast from Mikoto. Last edited by Keroko; 2009-04-16 at 01:36. |
2009-04-15, 14:50 | Link #37 |
The Faceless One
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Like many people here, I thought a lot about Touma's power and the way it works and the conclusion I came with is following: Touma can negate that what author wants him to negate and can't negate what author doesn't want him to negate. Also, all laws of physics, magic, Chuck Norris, etc. are nullified with the Imagine Breaker.
The other theory I have is that he can nulify any effect created by any ability, be it magical or psychic. Like fire and electricity, acceleration is just another effect created by an ability so acceleration is negated and the accelerated object is stoped and returned to the state it was before the ability affected it. In other words, even if Touma can't stop a physicial attack, he can stop physical attacks created by an ability. |
2009-04-15, 15:28 | Link #38 | |
Portable Dude Mk. II
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights.
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... So, let's put it like this:
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Compare: Misaka fires a railgun using a coin as a projectile at Touma. Touma's right hand goes up to attempt to block the projectile, and as soon as the projectile touches Touma his right hand instantly reduces the velocity of the coin to zero and thus preventing damage to Touma himself. Velocity reduction of the coin to zero was caused by it being launched towards him with an ability (Misaka's Railgun ability in this case). OR: The stone golem courtesy of Sherry Cromwell hurls a fist at Touma. Touma's right hand goes up to attempt to block the attack, and as soon as the golem's and Touma's hands make contact, the force of the golem's fist is instantly reduced to zero because the Golem itself was made of magic. And further goes the case of the Golem being possibly disintegrated into pebbles because of the magic used to bind its body parts together to form itself is being cancelled. Would that be acceptable examples of cases?
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2009-04-15, 15:47 | Link #40 |
The Faceless One
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Yes, it would.
The same would be with Misaka's lightning attacks: When she creates lightning, it becomes lightning thus it is not magical or anything. Only its creation is supernatural. Thus, it is nullified because it was created by an supernatural ability. If the theory is right, it would mean that he doesn't negate magic and abilities. He nulifies the effect created by anything supernatural. If he ain't able to stop a railgun, then he shoudn't be able to stop Misaka's eletricity, Styl's fire and Accelerator's deflection because they are all one same thing: an effect created by ability, not magic itself. Like accelerated object, deflection, lightning and fire are all physicial once created. |
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