AnimeSuki Forums

KaneDragon · 2009-07-05, 19:58

Eh. The only thing I managed to pick up from that section was that Yuji had still been leading her on up to that point somehow, so I felt a little sorry for her.

I thought it was kinda funny how Yuji blasts through the wall carrying a nearly-dead Shana and goes "Oh, sorry, didn't think anyone was still in here. My bad."

digger314 · 2009-07-05, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegamiMiko

That's a bit odd to hear considering how I'd been hearing how much less annoying she is in the novel version, of course I've never really understood the hate for her even just going by the anime...

Hate was too strong a word... not the right word at all actually. Objectively speaking it just highlighted her single-mindedness and foolishness.

I found the series 2 version of her really annoying. The "that was round 1" part was just completely ungrateful.

digger314 · 2009-07-06, 03:03

As promised, chapter 16 summaries:

http://sites.google.com/site/asdigge...ter-16-summary

And with that, time to switch my mind off this until volume 19, unless there are other requests. Actually I might check if there's something I can do for the baka-tsuki translaiton efforts.

fhxc885 · 2009-07-06, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by digger314

As promised, chapter 16 summaries:

http://sites.google.com/site/asdigge...ter-16-summary

And with that, time to switch my mind off this until volume 19, unless there are other requests. Actually I might check if there's something I can do for the baka-tsuki translaiton efforts.

Thanks for the summary ^_^

Game8910 · 2009-07-06, 08:58

you sir are a god

FFrank227 · 2009-07-06, 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by digger314

As promised, chapter 16 summaries:

http://sites.google.com/site/asdigge...ter-16-summary

And with that, time to switch my mind off this until volume 19, unless there are other requests. Actually I might check if there's something I can do for the baka-tsuki translaiton efforts.

Thank you #3, I'm sure there is something you can do at baka-tsuki as the Shana project appears to be currently inactive.

alvinkhorfire · 2009-07-07, 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFrank227

I can easily see this as being epic in an Anime adaptation.

Yes, you are right about that. It is definitely suspenseful reading through that excerpt. More accurately, I am both excited and terrified at the prospect of this arc being animated. Why? I am sure that most of us will be heartbroken seeing Shana being wounded so badly. The last time I felt the same feeling is when Yuji refused to join Shana to battle during the Khamsin arc, causing Shana to cry.

The approach taken by Novel volume 16 onwards represents a remarkable and dramatic charge as compared to the earlier novel. The story will not be about school life. It is not that I want Shakugan no Shana to be just about school life. Here, I am just stating a fact. It is not be just about Misaki City. It is not just about three Flame Hazes: Shana, Wilhemina and Margery. It is now about the entire world and all Frame Hazes around the world uniting to fight the Bal Masque.

Certainly, the storylines in the future possible Season 3 will be completely different from Seasons 1 and 2. I am sure that we all are looking forward to that.

digger314 · 2009-07-07, 03:54

I'm really interested in how the current arc will turn out. If the story can go on with such an abrupt change and so much character growth (perhaps with a time skip) it would be epic, or at least end with an open ending, or some kind of world-changing event.

Personally I feel the story of Shana is just beginning. She's been a Flame Haze for only a few years, and has just begun to recognize her humanity since mere months ago. The relationship between her and Yuji is just beginning to take shape. And she's just beginning to realize her potential. In chapter 18 she gets a power up but in retrospect perhaps it's not exactly a "omgwtfhax" type of power up. We see the other Flame Haze having lived for centuries or even more. She needs more time time to live and experience.

Now, world-changing scenarios. I really think what SotF has in mind is probably a Very Bad Thing, so he'll probably be thwarted. Would his efforts be somehow hijacked for a more positive outcome? Aeons of conflict resolved in some positive way? Too much of a stretch probably.

Then there's the possibility of them going out with a bang. But that would be entirely too anticlimactic, and doesn't fit with the imho hopeful and entertaining (though somewhat melodramatic) mood (perhaps out of my own hope). The author has always called it a fun/thrilling/entertaining series.

Oh well we'll know more in September.

mitsuganae · 2009-07-07, 07:27

^ I'm all for the novels continuing as long as the author has ideas and can sustain his invention.

He seems to have some really good stuff up his sleeve for the current arc. Once it's done, I wonder if he can surpass it?

FFrank227 · 2009-07-07, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

Yes, you are right about that. It is definitely suspenseful reading through that excerpt. More accurately, I am both excited and terrified at the prospect of this arc being animated. Why? I am sure that most of us will be heartbroken seeing Shana being wounded so badly. The last time I felt the same feeling is when Yuji refused to join Shana to battle during the Khamsin arc, causing Shana to cry.

The approach taken by Novel volume 16 onwards represents a remarkable and dramatic charge as compared to the earlier novel. The story will not be about school life. It is not that I want Shakugan no Shana to be just about school life. Here, I am just stating a fact. It is not be just about Misaki City. It is not just about three Flame Hazes: Shana, Wilhemina and Margery. It is now about the entire world and all Frame Hazes around the world uniting to fight the Bal Masque.

Certainly, the storylines in the future possible Season 3 will be completely different from Seasons 1 and 2. I am sure that we all are looking forward to that.

Wounded especially by Yuji himself.

Zwei · 2009-07-07, 17:00

I got a thing for protagonists who turn evil, which I'm liking the novels very much and I'm looking very forward for the 3rd season of the anime.

mitsuganae · 2009-07-07, 20:12

^ It will be interesting to see if Yuji can be turned back towards the light, or if an in-universe reason moves him beyond the reach of salvation.

If the former applies, the author can always use "the power of love" trope -- but it has to be executed well or else there is a great risk of it becoming really cheesy. If the latter applies, there may be no choice but to kill Yuji -- better yet, by Shana's hand, which would potentially make things more interesting from a storytelling perspective. Yeah, I know it's a downer ending, but that too could work if executed properly.

fhxc885 · 2009-07-08, 03:01

can someone tell me what happened in novel S cause is going to be out as an ova for october

digger314 · 2009-07-08, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitsuganae

^ It will be interesting to see if Yuji can be turned back towards the light, or if an in-universe reason moves him beyond the reach of salvation.

If the former applies, the author can always use "the power of love" trope -- but it has to be executed well or else there is a great risk of it becoming really cheesy. If the latter applies, there may be no choice but to kill Yuji -- better yet, by Shana's hand, which would potentially make things more interesting from a storytelling perspective. Yeah, I know it's a downer ending, but that too could work if executed properly.

I definitely see a "power of love" type of plot device as cliched as it may seem (though I am of the opinion that cliches exist for good reasons). It's been hinted at all along. In fact throughout the entire series, love seems to be an underpinning theme that drives the actions of many characters. I tend to think that the Yuji/SotF we see isn't the real Yuji. The personality merge has corrupted his real self. In the author's notes in Vol 18, he says that one of the focus of the next volume is about the "self" - could it refer to this?

Then there's the loose ends like Pheles and Spiral Organ. I wonder if/how they'll factor into this.

Hopefully with the announcement of Season 3 (?) we'll see a continuation of the plot. Actually that might be too tough, especially if the author wants to end the series on a high note. The best I can probably expect is an open ending.

mitsuganae · 2009-07-08, 12:55

^ Very well said, digger314.

Assuming Shana and Yuji live through all of this with a "power of love" trope being used, I wonder what will become of Yuji, i.e., what will he be after all is said and done? He's not human anymore, so will he take a place as a middle or high ranking supernatural being of some kind in the Shanaverse? I wonder if he can be restored to being a torch with just the Reiji Maigo (so that he doesn't burn out), but without the excessive baggage. Really, it's all that baggage that caused so much trouble in the first place!

I have a hunch that Pheles will be involved somehow.

We now know that the upcoming OVAs will set up the third season, so we could only assume that the powers that be are in contact with the author, and that the story will be allowed to complete itself in the novels before being animated. Maybe the author himself will execute a somewhat open ending -- along the lines that the adventures of the (hopefully happy) couple will continue, side by side, etc. Again, there's potential for more cheese if not executed well, but what you said about clichés is so true.

digger314 · 2009-07-08, 23:35

On the other hand, a "power of love" trope doesn't necessarily result in Yuji surviving. It could be just enough to weaken SotF or end up being some kind of self-sacrifice. Even if he is turned back, can he forgive himself? He helped to initiate a massive war and seriously hurt his loved one and comrades physically and emotionally. What about the rest of the Flame Haze? Yuji is really a transient existence on life support from the beginning of this series, so it's very possible for him to finally disappear for good. I don't like it but it's at least [b]a[]/b] likely scenario, perhaps the "cleanest" one (doesn't require a lot of contrived justifications etc.) But personally I'm still hoping the author can come up with a good happy ending.

I think Spiral Organ may play a role too. She's been appearing frequently in this arc in an enigmatic way.

From the S3 thread it really looks like the end of the novels are in sight. Gah.. oh well nothing lasts forever... at least this series won't be an exception to that.

mitsuganae · 2009-07-09, 10:50

Can you imagine if the author uses the power of love, deus ex machina, the heroic sacrifice (ahemKazumiahem), and the Disney death tropes in the end, all for the express purpose of Yuji surviving? And why not throw in a sudden game-changer that will turn the tide of war when the Flame Haze are on the brink of defeat? Talk about trope overload.

Seriously, you bring up a good point about Yuji dealing with everything he has done. I like your idea of Yuji sacrificing himself (redemption through death). Of course, the redemption through love trope is another possibility if he is destined to live. If done right, it could make for a very touching post-battle scene, assuming Yuji himself executes some key action in the final battle (such as his final extrication from SotF).

Of course, there's the chance that the author could go the Wagnerian route and execute some kind of Shana-Yuji mutual-annihilation-love-death thing. Such a move could be extremely depressing yet extremely cathartic at the same time. Or it could just lead to cheese.

Ah well, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. The story may be coming to an end, but the remaining novels, the OVAs and the final season should keep us occupied for some time yet!

digger314 · 2009-07-11, 14:41

You are right, there is a lot of room for "cheese" in the conclusion. Although, even thus far I don't think the novels are free of it. After all this is no Shakespear

Anyway the author has a lot of cards on his hand. Let's see how he plays them. I won't be too pissed as long as he doesn't kill off Shana (I think the chance of that is low anyway).

mitsuganae · 2009-07-11, 23:36

You're right, the Shana novels aren't Shakespeare. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

However, I hope the conclusion is better than Harry Potter VII. Potter's Disney death is clumsily executed, and the final duel being mostly a wordy exposition-dialogue between Potter and Voldy -- well, that's just plain ludicrous. Yeah, I know Rowling isn't Shakespeare, but even my relatively low expectations were disappointed.

However Shana ends, it better be better than THAT!

Now if you'll excuse me, I think it's time to go through King Lear, and maybe also Coriolanus for good measure (for measure) ...

digger314 · 2009-07-12, 16:41

Hmm I haven't read Harry Potter so I don't know exactly what is this Disney death that you talk about, but I'll assume it's cheesy

I admit that I'm no literature buff and haven't read Shakespeare beyond what was required in school. So my expectations are probably rather low in that regard.

2009-07-05, 19:58	Link #1721
KaneDragon (RAWR)&rawr Join Date: Dec 2005	Eh. The only thing I managed to pick up from that section was that Yuji had still been leading her on up to that point somehow, so I felt a little sorry for her. I thought it was kinda funny how Yuji blasts through the wall carrying a nearly-dead Shana and goes "Oh, sorry, didn't think anyone was still in here. My bad." __________________

2009-07-06, 08:58	Link #1725
Game8910 Shanacon/Ariafag Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: a room full of despair Age: 34	you sir are a god __________________ HEY GUYS BE NICE AND VISIT MY BLOG WILL YA? Latest Update: Spring 2011 Impressions (part1) Spring 2011 Impressions (part2)

2009-07-07, 20:12	Link #1732
mitsuganae Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	^ It will be interesting to see if Yuji can be turned back towards the light, or if an in-universe reason moves him beyond the reach of salvation. If the former applies, the author can always use "the power of love" trope -- but it has to be executed well or else there is a great risk of it becoming really cheesy. If the latter applies, there may be no choice but to kill Yuji -- better yet, by Shana's hand, which would potentially make things more interesting from a storytelling perspective. Yeah, I know it's a downer ending, but that too could work if executed properly. Last edited by mitsuganae; 2009-07-07 at 20:22.

2009-07-08, 23:35	Link #1736
digger314 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vancouver, Canada	On the other hand, a "power of love" trope doesn't necessarily result in Yuji surviving. It could be just enough to weaken SotF or end up being some kind of self-sacrifice. Even if he is turned back, can he forgive himself? He helped to initiate a massive war and seriously hurt his loved one and comrades physically and emotionally. What about the rest of the Flame Haze? Yuji is really a transient existence on life support from the beginning of this series, so it's very possible for him to finally disappear for good. I don't like it but it's at least [b]a[]/b] likely scenario, perhaps the "cleanest" one (doesn't require a lot of contrived justifications etc.) But personally I'm still hoping the author can come up with a good happy ending. I think Spiral Organ may play a role too. She's been appearing frequently in this arc in an enigmatic way. From the S3 thread it really looks like the end of the novels are in sight. Gah.. oh well nothing lasts forever... at least this series won't be an exception to that. Last edited by digger314; 2009-07-08 at 23:45.

2009-07-09, 10:50	Link #1737
mitsuganae Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	Can you imagine if the author uses the power of love, deus ex machina, the heroic sacrifice (ahemKazumiahem), and the Disney death tropes in the end, all for the express purpose of Yuji surviving? And why not throw in a sudden game-changer that will turn the tide of war when the Flame Haze are on the brink of defeat? Talk about trope overload. Seriously, you bring up a good point about Yuji dealing with everything he has done. I like your idea of Yuji sacrificing himself (redemption through death). Of course, the redemption through love trope is another possibility if he is destined to live. If done right, it could make for a very touching post-battle scene, assuming Yuji himself executes some key action in the final battle (such as his final extrication from SotF). Of course, there's the chance that the author could go the Wagnerian route and execute some kind of Shana-Yuji mutual-annihilation-love-death thing. Such a move could be extremely depressing yet extremely cathartic at the same time. Or it could just lead to cheese. Ah well, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. The story may be coming to an end, but the remaining novels, the OVAs and the final season should keep us occupied for some time yet! Last edited by mitsuganae; 2009-07-09 at 11:11.

2009-07-06, 03:03	Link #1723
digger314 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vancouver, Canada	As promised, chapter 16 summaries: http://sites.google.com/site/asdigge...ter-16-summary And with that, time to switch my mind off this until volume 19, unless there are other requests. Actually I might check if there's something I can do for the baka-tsuki translaiton efforts.

2009-07-07, 03:54	Link #1728
digger314 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vancouver, Canada	I'm really interested in how the current arc will turn out. If the story can go on with such an abrupt change and so much character growth (perhaps with a time skip) it would be epic, or at least end with an open ending, or some kind of world-changing event. Personally I feel the story of Shana is just beginning. She's been a Flame Haze for only a few years, and has just begun to recognize her humanity since mere months ago. The relationship between her and Yuji is just beginning to take shape. And she's just beginning to realize her potential. In chapter 18 she gets a power up but in retrospect perhaps it's not exactly a "omgwtfhax" type of power up. We see the other Flame Haze having lived for centuries or even more. She needs more time time to live and experience. Now, world-changing scenarios. I really think what SotF has in mind is probably a Very Bad Thing, so he'll probably be thwarted. Would his efforts be somehow hijacked for a more positive outcome? Aeons of conflict resolved in some positive way? Too much of a stretch probably. Then there's the possibility of them going out with a bang. But that would be entirely too anticlimactic, and doesn't fit with the imho hopeful and entertaining (though somewhat melodramatic) mood (perhaps out of my own hope). The author has always called it a fun/thrilling/entertaining series. Oh well we'll know more in September.

2009-07-07, 07:27	Link #1729
mitsuganae Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	^ I'm all for the novels continuing as long as the author has ideas and can sustain his invention. He seems to have some really good stuff up his sleeve for the current arc. Once it's done, I wonder if he can surpass it?

2009-07-07, 17:00	Link #1731
Zwei Natural Born Killer Graphic Designer Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Roanapur Age: 32	I got a thing for protagonists who turn evil, which I'm liking the novels very much and I'm looking very forward for the 3rd season of the anime.

2009-07-08, 03:01	Link #1733
fhxc885 Member Join Date: Mar 2009	can someone tell me what happened in novel S cause is going to be out as an ova for october

2009-07-08, 12:55	Link #1735
mitsuganae Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	^ Very well said, digger314. Assuming Shana and Yuji live through all of this with a "power of love" trope being used, I wonder what will become of Yuji, i.e., what will he be after all is said and done? He's not human anymore, so will he take a place as a middle or high ranking supernatural being of some kind in the Shanaverse? I wonder if he can be restored to being a torch with just the Reiji Maigo (so that he doesn't burn out), but without the excessive baggage. Really, it's all that baggage that caused so much trouble in the first place! I have a hunch that Pheles will be involved somehow. We now know that the upcoming OVAs will set up the third season, so we could only assume that the powers that be are in contact with the author, and that the story will be allowed to complete itself in the novels before being animated. Maybe the author himself will execute a somewhat open ending -- along the lines that the adventures of the (hopefully happy) couple will continue, side by side, etc. Again, there's potential for more cheese if not executed well, but what you said about clichés is so true.

2009-07-11, 14:41	Link #1738
digger314 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vancouver, Canada	You are right, there is a lot of room for "cheese" in the conclusion. Although, even thus far I don't think the novels are free of it. After all this is no Shakespear Anyway the author has a lot of cards on his hand. Let's see how he plays them. I won't be too pissed as long as he doesn't kill off Shana (I think the chance of that is low anyway).

2009-07-11, 23:36	Link #1739
mitsuganae Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	You're right, the Shana novels aren't Shakespeare. Not that there's anything wrong with that! However, I hope the conclusion is better than Harry Potter VII. Potter's Disney death is clumsily executed, and the final duel being mostly a wordy exposition-dialogue between Potter and Voldy -- well, that's just plain ludicrous. Yeah, I know Rowling isn't Shakespeare, but even my relatively low expectations were disappointed. However Shana ends, it better be better than THAT! Now if you'll excuse me, I think it's time to go through King Lear, and maybe also Coriolanus for good measure (for measure) ... Last edited by mitsuganae; 2009-07-11 at 23:57.

2009-07-12, 16:41	Link #1740
digger314 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vancouver, Canada	Hmm I haven't read Harry Potter so I don't know exactly what is this Disney death that you talk about, but I'll assume it's cheesy I admit that I'm no literature buff and haven't read Shakespeare beyond what was required in school. So my expectations are probably rather low in that regard.