2009-08-28, 03:29 | Link #501 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...Which means he could just as easily be the child of Krauss, Eva, or Rosa. In any case, Ep6 should probably delve more into this. It's way too important. |
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2009-08-28, 03:39 | Link #502 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Ange said in red she was his sister. Unless there's some semantic trickery there (and that makes no sense, as Battler couldn't say Asumu was his mother even though she raised him), that means at least one of Rudolf or Kyrie is a shared parent between them.
And if his mother is Kyrie, then his father must be someone who is Kinzo's son, or he can't be Kinzo's grandson. That doesn't necessarily mean, of course, that his father has to be Rudolf or Krauss... |
2009-08-28, 03:44 | Link #503 |
Nyeh~
Join Date: Jul 2009
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If Ange is his sister, doesn't that mean Kyrie is his mom? If Rudolf had Battler with Woman X, those two ought to be half-siblings, ya?
Unless it technically counts as sister, of course. Technically, any sort of Ushiromiya male is a possible daddy then. Unless technically Kinzo's grandson was thought of in the sense that he shares the Ushiromiya name and is grandson that way...but that's doesn't seem right? Spoiler for EP4 End:
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2009-08-28, 03:53 | Link #505 |
Nyeh~
Join Date: Jul 2009
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But that dialogue happened during a magical scene, therefore is it plausible to say it's possibly a fake lead?
Or is that just me being silly? Also, didn't EP4 say about Rudolf knowing about Battler's situation/sin and it revolving around the inheritance? Or was that someone's theory? Last edited by Littledgn; 2009-08-28 at 04:09. |
2009-08-28, 04:14 | Link #506 | ||||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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However, there is no guarantee that Eva didn't pulls things so Natsuhi could be framed. Regardless if Erika was aiming for Natsuhi from the beginning or not, it is clear Eva would regardless do things to crush Natsuhi and Krauss. The fact Erika didn't mention other possible seals doesn't mean there wasn't any more. Quote:
The fact Erika didn't take the whole inheritance was most probably another factor that gained Eva's trust. Also, it isn't hard to expect a murder in this kind of situation: the ones who are the most in danger in this case are obviously Krauss and Natsuhi. Therefore if Erika mentions they can prevent these 2 to do anything, Eva would gladly help, especially she believes that Kinzo is dead already. Quote:
Even Battler himself was more like "well, it is Erika" before Erika declined the gold succession. Quote:
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It might pops as a surprise, but the gold truth is definitely within the scope of the events. Quote:
The fact she is using drastic different and brutal methods really show how she really doesn't want to drag the "farce" of Beato's game, so with Lambda, it just became even more of a blitzkrieg than your usually long gameboard. And who said Bern wanted to uncover the truth? She stated a lot of time: she just wants to be the winner. The winner here is: anti fantasy, proving it wasn't the witch's doing. So a false truth is good enough, so long it is "consistent" and "denying the witch". That works within Bern's victory condition. Quote:
In fact, the episode was basically Anti Fantasy VS Mystery, while AF doesn't mind using Fantasy itself to deny it. Which is funny because Bern complained to Battler at the start that he was only Anti Fantasy, but not mystery.
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2009-08-28, 04:35 | Link #507 | ||||||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Anyway I already read your defense on Erika's odd behavior on your previous post, but I can't bring myself to accept this a plausible. I can't really see how she could be so sure a crime would happen to the point of placing dozen of seals and spenfing a whole night awake, even if she was supposed to be tired as hell after swimming for who knows how many kilometers in the middle of a typhoon. This is not normal no matter how you try to look at it. Quote:
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2009-08-28, 04:49 | Link #508 | |||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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As for the fatigue, we absolutely don't know. Even the characters were mentioning how she was energetic during dinner etc despite she was drowning few hours before. From my point of view, it is possible: I've seen patients at hospital with nasty tiring and/or painful state far worse than simple fatigue, and they could act as if nothing happened. Quote:
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If she believes Erika's reasoning was perfect (despite she knew it isn't the truth, since she knows Kinzo is dead), there is no need to push further, or it would crumble her own side.
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2009-08-28, 07:10 | Link #509 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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That's why I believe Bernkastel is merely interested in such "victory". A victory that doesn't make the endless repetition end, exactly what happened on game 5 before Battler got back.
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2009-08-28, 08:12 | Link #510 | |
Tenshi's Defense Squadron
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system
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He tried to say, "I was born from Asumu Ushiromiya", but can't.
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2009-08-28, 08:51 | Link #511 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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That's like a hero about to be trampled by the villain, then suddenly, a god shows up, powns the bad guy, good end (despite we are in a cyber punk setup story), that's that kind of "out of nowhere / out of the blue" element that is a deus ex machina. That is why it is not a deus ex machina, because Battler only breaks a rule through the change of his position. He didn't break the game. And now you said that if Battler could use the gold truth to solve the whole mystery in the get go, that would be a deus ex machina. Therefore, since it wasn't used like this, it isn't. Quote:
Even if Bern wins, the whole deal is amusing, principally because she is ridiculing Beato, her game and the pieces alongside. Thus, why would she stop there, despite she can have another crushing victory? That said, I never said Bern wanted to finish the game with this gameboard, but she had her share of amusement with this, so she wants to go with something else. She is "de facto" declared as victor, but that doesn't mean the game is meaningless afterwards: steamrolling again and again is also the enjoyment of some people. I won't deny the fact it might be a playacting (heck, I still think there is equal chance that Bern is acting like a villain so Battler just go totally serious with "Mystery" instead of "Anti Fantasy"), but from the image she is showing, the bern we saw really don't care about the truth. Why would she leave Erika doing the previous episodes with Natsuhi as the culprit in mind then? Basically, "this bern" (for lack of better words) really don't give a damn about the truth.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-08-28 at 09:01. |
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2009-08-28, 10:02 | Link #512 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Iam korean but now i am living in bangkok[Thailand]
Age: 33
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~Beato Doesn't gain anything~so it mean other will gain something, if Beato was doing all this game for Battler then maybe Beato is trying to make Battler remember something, proof can maybe found where Battler is always last one to die or diappear.~Beato doesn't enjoy killing~ maybe this would make sense that Beato is rushing[in Ep4] beacuse she also doesn't want to kill them. If Beato have feeling of love toward Battler then this also can be proof why Beato is rushing,because she doesn't really want to kill him even if this is a game.
Battler Mother isn't Asmu. How about Battler is Direct son of Kinzo. I saw that in Ep5 Bern [joke] say that maybe Natsumi and Kinzo Had a special Relationship. Okay what if this is a hint? What if it is not Natsumi who had special relationship with Kinzo Maybe it is another Woman Asmu is not the real mother of Battler but Battler remember her raising him,if Battler is Direct Son of Kinzo and Kinzo doesn't want his children to know,so he gave Battler to Asmu and she raised him as he was her real son. If Battler is really a Grandson of Kinzo Then there is two thing i can think 1st maybe Kinzo had one more child and this child gave birth to Battler but after giving birth to Battler his real Parent died so Kinzo gave Battler to Asmu so she will be able to marry Rudolf It couldn't be Kyrie because as i see at Ep4 Kyrie Family and Ushiromiya Family didn't had good relationship,but then accept when she gave up her family name. 2nd maybe Battler is from others like Eva,Rosa,and Natsumi or his father might be other like Krauss or his father is Rudolf but his mother might be other woman then how did Asmu got Battler?it is possible that Eva,Rosa,Natsuhi,Krauss,Rudolf or Woman X gave him to Asmu. But If is really Eva,Rosa,Natsuhi,Krauss "okay now lets add" Hideyoshi then why do they need to hide Battler?maybe Battler is from other man, not their husband or from other woman, not their wife. |
2009-08-28, 10:12 | Link #513 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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In EP 4 Beato denied to state in red "Battler Ushiromiya is not Kinzo's grandson". Because of this we know that Battler is Kinzo's grandchild - the entire point of what Beato did was because she claimed Battler wasn't Kinzo's grandchild and therefore had no right to play the game.
This cannot apply to Kyrie or Asumu, because neither of them are Kinzo's direct children. They don't carry his blood (and there is no crest on their hearts /shot) so that means Battler is the son of Kinzo's children. It's between Rudolf and Krauss and I'm certain that Rudolf is the father - it's even mentioned how Battler and Rudolf even act and look alike to a certain degree. And also, I HIGHLY doubt Battler is Kinzo's son. It makes zero sense. It's stated in red during the trial that Kinzo never thought good of Natsuhi, because she couldn't give birth quicker, and that the nice Kinzo she saw was her delusion. Plus I'm highly sure Natsuhi loves Krauss, even saying she would never leave him (then again, looking at it I think she might be more in love with her last name than with him ) Of course that entire trial was meta sooo who knows. |
2009-08-28, 10:12 | Link #514 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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One thing I'd like to point out about EP5. The basic premise is that Lambda and Bern have hijacked the game board.
My guess is that this means the number of "falsehoods" on the game board is incredibly high compared to other Episodes, hence Ronove's line "It had no love." In other words, while Beato's games were set up in a way that they could be solved, Bern and Lambda's game might not have been (and yes, I doubt Lambda was the sole Game Master, strictly speaking). Simply put, this makes EP5 the hardest Episode yet. There are almost no helpful clues and the trial itself isn't that useful either. BUT remember what Virgilia said at the beginning. "In this game without Beato, try to find some piece of her." Virgilia's random comments were the biggest clue in EP3, and I think they're a big clue now. In other words, there is a logical solution to EP5, but there's probably no way for us to find it yet. The real thing we get out of this Episode is a few hidden bits of information on what the Meta World is, so there's really no need to be disappointed in the lack of new game board info, I think.
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2009-08-28, 10:23 | Link #515 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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About Bern, if you agree that in this game she didn't aim to a definitive resolution yet, then that's all right. It explains why Lambda doesn't get in her way and actually gleefully watches her developing he scheme. I do think that Bern in the end thinks that she will win, what I do not think is that right now her priority is to win, it is more fun->victory right now, imho. And after this episode5 I think there is also pride. Thinking about it, Battler's value on the gameboard has changed drastically, he even surpassed Bern as for what concerns the knowledge of the gameboard. Now having Battler as an ally would mean sure victory. And that's what I really don't get. Why Bern doesn't want Battler as an ally? She's not stupid, she knew the reaction she would obtain by acting so bitchy in front of him. An intelligent person that really aims for victory wouldn't disregard the help of the ally. After all this war between Battler and Bern only goes to Lambda's benefit. I am also wondering if it isn't just a twisted scheme, I do agree with you that bern's behavior in this game was completely out of character. However I fail to see the benefit that came out from this situation. I don't think it had anything to do with Battler becoming the gamemaster nor I see how it was necessary. But maybe there's something I don't know. Lambda's behavior is even more perplexing. She is letting Bern having her little fun winning the game, probably because she also rather get rid of Battler and Beato. However Bernkastel placing her piece as a gamemaster should have been a big threat for her. And then when Battler wakes up he snatches away the title of gamemaster from Erika and Lambda is still amused. It looks like she doesn't think it matters at all. Even with Battler knowing everything of the gameboard she still doesn't feel threatened. I fear there might be very unfair trap somewhere. Maybe the victory conditions aren't exactly what we suppose they are... Quote:
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2009-08-28, 10:31 | Link #516 | |
Guitar Man
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brazil
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And, according to them, the signatures could not be faked 「それにさらに、切れ目、扉と枠部の3ヶ所に、模写不可能な私のサインにて割り印がしてありま す。 よって、痕跡を残さずに剥がすことも貼り直すことも、一切出来ないわけです…!」 Even Kanon and Kumasawa noticed the scribbles
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2009-08-28, 10:46 | Link #518 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I'm not sure how the japanese sound like about that.
For example with the exception of Natsuhi's room the existence of a living Kinzo inside the mansion is denied in english really sounds like a confirmation that Kinzo is inside Natsuhi's room. Oh about that. Did anyone get that riddle that only an english speaker can understand? I didn't quite get it. "Why a dragon sleeps all day?"
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2009-08-28, 10:59 | Link #519 |
Guitar Man
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brazil
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That's just meant to corner Natsuhi
Kinzo is obviously anywhere, not even in Natsuhi's room It's meant to deny his presence everywhere, except for her room (where he is not, too). It's like, 'the only place remaining to deny his existence is natsuhi's room'. However, the red is true even so As for the riddle Just think: Knight ~ night, these two words sound similar in english
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