(L) Magi - Labyrinth of Magic [manga]

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by noobita

Alibaba can be her friend, husband, and lover at the same time. Kougyoku shouldn't push her luck too much or else, she would really end up marrying a fat, ugly, dirty, mental-challenged and short guy.

I don't think Kougyoku would be so opposed to marry Alibaba. I think she would come to like him fairly easily. But there won't be no marriage. It wouldn't make sense. I think Alibaba's character journey is leading him to an eventual confrontation against Kouen, not to become his subordinate, which is more or less what he would become if he accepts a political marriage.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I don't think Kougyoku would be so opposed to marry Alibaba. I think she would come to like him fairly easily. But there won't be no marriage. It wouldn't make sense. I think Alibaba's character journey is leading him to an eventual confrontation against Kouen, not to become his subordinate, which is more or less what he would become if he accepts a political marriage.

Matters not. After the marriage he can elope together with Kougyoku and oppose the Kou empire without his freedom being taken.

[catavecino]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

I see, you didn't watch The Dictator.

i had forgotten about that movie AHAHAH

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Matters not. After the marriage he can elope together with Kougyoku and oppose the Kou empire without his freedom being taken.

Or, you know, cut out the middleman and refuse a marriage he's not interested in.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I don't think Kougyoku would be so opposed to marry Alibaba. I think she would come to like him fairly easily. But there won't be no marriage. It wouldn't make sense. I think Alibaba's character journey is leading him to an eventual confrontation against Kouen, not to become his subordinate, which is more or less what he would become if he accepts a political marriage.

Alibaba: Since when you were under the impression that I lost my freedom just because I slept with your sister?

[Alf]

Such marriage proposal is very likely, but accepting such will imply Alibaba becoming on top of any government he's going to form; and being a royal member of Kou, this also means ruling by the identity of Kou's royal instead of prince of Balbaad.

The escape route is likely to be Morgiana, as that arc about the relationship between Alibaba and Morgiana positioned just before thie meeting is likely to have some meaning.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, they did. There's absolutely no self-government in Balbad.

Not having any power, the government that may have existed was annulled, perhaps? The point is though that under the original agreement, any government that Balbaad had would have been little more than a clubhouse.

I don't think they have any kind of loyalty to Solomon. They're interested in it because they're Metal Vessel holders and it may turn out to be important (what if just having a metal vessel enrolls them into some fight for the fate of the world?), not because they want to submit to the will of some long dead king.

I did not mean loyalty. Just that they recognize that there is a great power behind the dungeons and Djinn. Until they understand that power and the intent behind it, they aren't inclined to go against it. I think they're being cautious while going along with the Flow.

His basic plan for world peace seem to be "conquer the world", and I don't think he expects anything Aladdin has to say to change that. Or that he won't have to wage war.

He's open to the possibility. I don't think he chooses conquest as a personal preference. He might enjoy war, but he's responsible enough to recognize the costs involved.

Maybe. But as far as taking one for the team goes, she could do a lot worse than marrying her friend.

She could do alot better. Mu's single. He's also grieving since his crush recently exploded.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

Not having any power, the government that may have existed was annulled, perhaps? The point is though that under the original agreement, any government that Balbaad had would have been little more than a clubhouse.

That's your, rather odd, interpretation of the original agreement. Obviously not Alibaba's, but who cares about him? Probably not Sinbad's either, but he's got bigger fish to fry.

Really, they're unapologetic about not giving a flying fig about the agreement. Why are you trying to look for excuses for them?

I did not mean loyalty. Just that they recognize that there is a great power behind the dungeons and Djinn. Until they understand that power and the intent behind it, they aren't inclined to go against it. I think they're being cautious while going along with the Flow.



He's open to the possibility. I don't think he chooses conquest as a personal preference. He might enjoy war, but he's responsible enough to recognize the costs involved.

He chooses conquest out of ideology. Whether he draws any pleasure from it is debatable, but he believes he can only have peace if there's only one king reigning over one kingdom with one set of laws. As far as he's concerned, peaceful cohabitation is just a temporary sham.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's your, rather odd, interpretation of the original agreement. Obviously not Alibaba's, but who cares about him? Probably not Sinbad's either, but he's got bigger fish to fry.

Really, they're unapologetic about not giving a flying fig about the agreement. Why are you trying to look for excuses for them?

Half of it is making a point that a government without an administration is not really a government, which is what they agreed to in the first place. The other half is that I don't have any real interest in Alibaba's cause. The people in Balbaad are better off and no matter how sinister Kou is portrayed and how upset Alibaba's old buddies and retainers are, it's just really hard to hold sympathy for people that look at a full glass and call it half-empty.

They should really just move on.

He chooses conquest out of ideology. Whether he draws any pleasure from it is debatable, but he believes he can only have peace if there's only one king reigning over one kingdom with one set of laws. As far as he's concerned, peaceful cohabitation is just a temporary sham.

The issue is that that is not En's idea. The one king ideal is something that's been alluded to since the beginning of the manga. It's hard to say if En even believes in it. Certainly he's expressed reluctance in fighting his family, fighting wars needlessly, and he doesn't seem to enjoy being an authority figure.

I partly suspect he'd be content living out his days peacefully reading books.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

Half of it is making a point that a government without an administration is not really a government, which is what they agreed to in the first place.

I don't believe either of us has the specifics of the agreement, so I find it strange you're so certain the fine print allowed Kou's complete takeover.

The other half is that I don't have any real interest in Alibaba's cause. The people in Balbaad are better off and no matter how sinister Kou is portrayed and how upset Alibaba's old buddies and retainers are, it's just really hard to hold sympathy for people that look at a full glass and call it half-empty.

They should really just move on.

So it's great because they're not the ones who get to be slaves?

I won't dispute they have it better than under Alibaba's brother. How good they really have it is, again, unclear.

The issue is that that is not En's idea. The one king ideal is something that's been alluded to since the beginning of the manga. It's hard to say if En even believes in it. Certainly he's expressed reluctance in fighting his family, fighting wars needlessly, and he doesn't seem to enjoy being an authority figure.

I partly suspect he'd be content living out his days peacefully reading books.

It doesn't really look like he got the idea from somewhere, though. I'd say it's a conclusion he came to on his own, especially the "one law" thing. He seems quite determined to not just rule the whole world, but to turn it into Kou.

Besides, he's never expressed anything like "the Djinns made me do it". He may have little interest in the trappings of power, but he seems to genuinely believe that the world can only be peaceful if they follow one way. His, by preference, of course.

[marvelB]

The script for 209 is out:

Spoiler for Magi 209:

So basically, Koumei's grand plan is to unify all human ideologies and countries in the world, and he aims to do that by having the empire erase/alter all of recorded history during the process. So basically, the Kou empire wants to be the Big Brother of the Magiverse.


Oh, and Kouen wants Alibaba to serve him in exchange for giving him back Balbadd, but I don't see Baba taking that offer anytime soon, personally....

[Raviel]

Spoiler for 209:

Kouen should offer alibaba a harem if he wants him to join him

Although seriously, the last few chapters have been really good, I think alibaba is being set up to follow path of his own path that's separate from Sinbad and Kouen.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Raviel

Spoiler for 209:

Kouen should offer alibaba a harem if he wants him to join him

Although seriously, the last few chapters have been really good, I think alibaba is being set up to follow path of his own path that's separate from Sinbad and Kouen.

Agree. Alibaba is walking on the path of a forever alone. He will become a mage when reaching the age of 30.

[Avaricia]

Spoiler for 209:

Ren Kouen... what a stupid fool

Alibaba > Right hand man cuz he's sure alladin will also side with him = Fail

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It doesn't really look like he got the idea from somewhere, though. I'd say it's a conclusion he came to on his own, especially the "one law" thing. He seems quite determined to not just rule the whole world, but to turn it into Kou.

Besides, he's never expressed anything like "the Djinns made me do it". He may have little interest in the trappings of power, but he seems to genuinely believe that the world can only be peaceful if they follow one way. His, by preference, of course.

Told you so...

Though they're naive if they really think it'll work. Koumei said it himself, even brothers will fight. Just being under one empire won't change that. It'll just mean a civil war instead of an international one. Which will splinter the empire, and then you're back where you started.


Looks like they're not going to just give Kougyoku away... Good. Though I suppose it could come up later, in the "salary negotiations", if Alibaba accepts.

[ChampDream]

wonder what did Kouen see in Alibaba to decide and make him his right hand man?
I think Alibaba is in a really difficult situation since he seem really shocked about Koumei's plan and it seem if he doesn't accept he will not get out on good terms with Kouen.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by ChampDream

wonder what did Kouen see in Alibaba to decide and make him his right hand man?

Being one of the most powerful metal vessel users on the planet with the likely potential to attain more probably helped. That and the fact that En believes he might have enough leverage that Alibaba might even accept the deal.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

Being one of the most powerful metal vessel users on the planet with the likely potential to attain more probably helped. That and the fact that En believes he might have enough leverage that Alibaba might even accept the deal.

Where did you get that Alibaba was particularly powerful?

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Where did you get that Alibaba was particularly powerful?

Databook. It has stats for the various characters introduced before everyone split up. Alibaba used to be pretty weak as a metal vessel user, not only because of the block on his Djinn-equip, but because he was born with average Magoi. However, merging with Cassim, who apparently had quite a bit of magoi, grossly inflated Alibaba's Magoi pool.

The only ones with more Magoi right now are Sinbad, En, and extremely good magicians like Yam, Moga, and the Magi.

Other stats included fighting ability, wisdom, leadership, and physical strength, and the only stat that Alibaba was especially lacking in was his Magoi pool. And this chart was meant to allude to an Alibaba that hadn't merged with Cassim, gained Djinn-Equip, and was trained and educated in Reim.

[CBredbeard]

Contrary to what Alibaba said, Kou isn't really laying the groundwork for hatred and conflict.

Hakuei approached the Kouga tribe with the utmost respect, something she's maintained literally years after bringing them into the fold. The Kouga tribe has also maintained it's own identity and heritage. As a result, they've held onto their pride and she won their undying loyalty.

Balbaad became a part of the Kou Empire because Balbaad's government ran Balbaad's economy into the ground, incurring heaping amounts of debt to Kou. Is it really Kou's fault if Balbaad kept asking for more rope with which to hang themselves with? What's more, if Alibaba had just settled and married Kougyokou, he probably would be ruler of Balbaad right now.

As for stamping out other histories and idealogies, Koumei talks a tough game, but I wouldn't take him literally. These guys are smart and they probably know that that those that don't know about history are doomed to repeat it. We haven't seen anything like laws against religious practices or reading and writing or whatever. All we know about is the class system and the dress code.

It may be implied that there's a law against speaking out against the government, but honestly freedom of speech is overrated and is probably more trouble than it's worth. There's a reason why only one country on the planet officially has that as a right; all the other countries recognized how destructive it is to make words essentially meaningless.

Certainly we haven't seen anything as horrifying as Magnostadt's 5th level. There's no law that kills everyone in the country if someone acts up. The people aren't placed in a cage of their own minds.

Basically Koumei talked tough, but Kou's actions contradicted the meaning behind his words, punctuated by the offer that En made to Alibaba. That En would offer a country and the determining of it's well being as an incentive to join ranks with him after giving Alibaba a speech about how the well being off that same country was meaningless in the scheme of things.

Something tells me that Koumei and En don't even believe the words they spoke. They did call it a "theory" after all.

Anyway, Alibaba's smart. He's going to tell En that he'll give his answer...after the Peace Summit. That Alibaba came to Balbaad to be his escort to the summit and that he'll see that through to the end. Alibaba's going to hide behind his status as an ambassador and if En and Koumei aren't interested in war, they'll respect that.