US Elections 2016 Part I: The Debates & Primaries/Caucus

[risingstar3110]

The more I follow the DNC, the less democratic thing the whole process seemed to be.

I means I assume the whole idea of primary process is to have the delegates from each states coming to the convention to represent the people/ vote for the party nomination? Isn't that the whole idea of delegates? To represent the people of their states? Back when there is no internet and phone and such? So once it finish, the delegates of all states can iron out the difference and work toward the same goals?

Instead the delegates roles were degenerated to the role of spectators, where voice was not heard (literally the only one speaks, is of the party establishment) just so it can be propagandized into mainstream media. They literally just there to legitimate the already set process. And any attempts against will be kicked out under the pretext of "political party is private organisation". Sure but the private organisation acting in the name of public representation, isn't that a scam?

Oh, well at least thank to that we found some brilliant creativity. For example this is what happens when you prevent people to bring signs into the convention:

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Political parties are not officially part of the democratic system of the United States. In fact, the US of A was created under the assumption that political parties don't exist. The result is that you end up with a Two Party system because the rules did not prevent it.

This is why primaries and conventions are undemocratic; it was never suppose to be. The convention was suppose to decide who to be chosen as a candidate, the Primaries are just a way to get legitimacy from the voters. This is only a bigger deal now because social media allow voters to have a voice, because back in the bad old days even if your chosen candidate was swindled out of his nomination, you would have no way of knowing.

[Brother Coa]

It would be a good thing is Senat or future president ( we can only wish ) were to change laws regarding that after this elections are over.

I remember the similar problem was with Roosevelt. He was selected time and time again because during his time there was no real limit on how many times you can be elected as president. Only after his death Senate decided to fix it to today's two mandates ( 8 years ).

Electoral process can be changed in similar way. Creating new laws to fix all the faults and holes in the system.

[Ithekro]

Changes to the Constitution are hard. That's intentional.

[Brother Coa]

Hard but possible, you just need someone with guts to actually push Senate to do it.

[yulinard]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Hard but possible, you just need someone with guts to actually push Senate to do it.

I don't think smaller state will agree with that. The point of the electoral system is to protect their right from the majority.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Grifis

Not in term of election but I remember they were brought up for comparisons. In term of election, the Bush effect influenced the following Republican candidate's fate and possibly got Obama in office.

Possibly, but I'd say Sarah Palin did a FAR better job of affecting McCain's fate than Bush did.

[AnimeFan188]

Why This Election Proves Politics Are About
To Get Weird:

"The iPhone was a weird new invention when Barack Obama was first
running for president in 2007. MySpace utterly dominated social
media; no one had heard of Twitter. Netflix was a company that
delivered DVDs by mail. The box office was dominated by a Marvel
franchise, a bombastic Zack Snyder movie, and a movie about
somebody called Jason Bourne. It was a simpler time.

When you see how radically the landscape has changed since then --
and how radically it seems to be changing on a week-to-week basis
now -- it's actually hard to guess what the presidential campaign for
2024 will look like. But, having spent these last two weeks on the
ground at both party conventions, I'm ready to give it a shot:"

See:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/a-glimps...ture-politics/

[MrTerrorist]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I came across the long list of speeches of this last day at the DNC. We can talk a lot about what politicians or celebrities said, but the speech that moved me the most came from a normal citizen who represents all immigrants who work hard and are an important part in building a better society in their new country, whatever that welcoming country is.

Ladies and gentlemen, Khizr Khan:

@SeijiSensei: I would like to have your input on that speech. It was a tear-jerker, I won't lie about it.

That was a moving speech.

[yulinard]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

That was a moving speech.

Although people often forget that 11% of American muslim support Trump which is record highest since normally 96%-98% of them vote for Democrats, three times than 2012 and five time higher than 2008.

Not pandering to them is a good choice for Republican candidate.

[AnimeFan188]

The American Autumn:

The Trumpification of the Establishment >>

"Trump isn't running a campaign, he's running an open source
insurgency (see my earlier article on this) that makes him nearly
immune to personal attack, and it is working. He has secured a
whopping 7 points (47 to 40) lead over Clinton in a recent national poll
by the LA Times/USC -- despite the fact that nearly EVERYONE in the
media, academic, government, and political establishment is working
against him. This loss of control has infuriated the establishment,
leading to increasing levels of paranoia, hyperbole, and anger
(particularly in the media). In short, the establishment is starting to act
increasingly like Trump does -- exaggerating and amplifying everything."

See:

http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/...-election.html


===========================


It’s Not Just Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders—The
Whole World Is Turning On Its Elites:

"By now, it’s undeniable: America’s frustration with political elites is
upending party loyalty. And now, this phenomenon is taking on
global proportions."

See:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ts-elites.html

[MCAL]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...s-soldier.html
(Sings) How low.. can he go?!


And in slightly brighter news...
https://www.thenation.com/article/th...orth-carolina/

[Chaos2Frozen]

And Trump challenged Khizr Khan’s claims about having sacrificed nothing. "I've made a lot of sacrifices,” Trump said. “I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures."

...I don't think he knows the meaning of the word sacrifice... Like literally the meaning of the word.

And it's comically predictable how he makes it immediately about his achievements.

[Brother Coa]

To be honest it's easy to create thousands of jobs and great structures when you got starting loan of million dollars from your dad.

[KiraYamatoFan]

And Trump challenged Khizr Khan’s claims about having sacrificed nothing. "I've made a lot of sacrifices,” Trump said. “I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures."

Donald, you're a **** for saying those words in such context. There are times when it's better to say nothing, you heartless fool.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

...I don't think he knows the meaning of the word sacrifice... Like literally the meaning of the word.

He knows nothing about the world in general. He always had that silver spoon stuck in his mouth (if not far up where the sun doesn't shine) for 70 years.

[yulinard]

Hmm... even Fox news don't want to continue to report what he said before and after that sentences.

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Donald, you're a **** for saying those words in such context. There are times when it's better to say nothing, you heartless fool.

It will be bad if he say nothing when asked by that reporter. Again pandering to regressive is bad for him.

[Sheba]

Well, I dont know how the most die-hard supporters of Trump can even spin it. I did have a little sympathy for the man weeks ago. But shitting on a war veteran or relatives of fallen soldiers? That's off-limit for me who do have respect for the army and ppl who enlist there to put their life on the line.

[frivolity]

Full transcript:

STEPHANOPOULOS:
I don't know if you saw this speech, but there was a man named Khizr Khan speaking at the Democratic Convention last night. His son, Captain Humayun Khan, was killed serving in Iraq. And he had some very tough questions for you. He said you wouldn't have even let his son in America.

TRUMP:
He doesn't know. He doesn't know that. I saw him. He was, you know, very emotional and probably looked like a nice guy to me. His wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me. But plenty of people have written that. She was extremely quiet. And it looked like she had nothing to say. A lot of people have said that. And personally, I watched him. I wish him the best of luck.

STEPHANOPOULOS:
What would you say to that father?

TRUMP:
Well, I'd say we've had a lot of problems with radical Islamic terrorism. That's what I'd say. We have a lot of problems, where you look at San Bernardino. You look at Orlando. You look at the World Trade Center. You look at so many different things.

You look at what happened to the priest over the weekend in Paris, where his throat was cut, 85-year-old, beloved Catholic priest. You look at what happened in Nice, France, a couple of weeks ago. I'd say you’ve got to take a look at that, because something is going on. And it's not good.

STEPHANOPOULOS:
He said you have sacrificed nothing and no one.

TRUMP:
Well, that sounds - who wrote that? Did Hillary's scriptwriters write it? Because everybody that went out there, we also had John Allen who failed with ISIS. I mean, he was a general, Allen, General Allen. He went out. And he was ranting and raving. And then I read a report. He was in there for a number of months. And he failed with ISIS.

STEPHANOPOULOS:
You saw Hillary say last night, you don't know more than the generals.

TRUMP:
Well, I'll tell you, the generals aren't doing so well right now. Now, I have a feeling it may be Obama's fault. But if you look at ISIS…General McArthur and General Patton, they're spinning in their graves. The generals certainly aren't doing very well right now. And General Allen, after I saw he was on ranting and raving about me, who he never met, I checked up. Guess what. They weren't so happy with him. He didn't beat ISIS. He didn't beat ISIS. He didn't do even well with ISIS.

STEPHANOPOULOS:
How would you answer that father? What sacrifice have you made for your country?

TRUMP:
I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've done, I've had tremendous success. I think I've done a lot.

STEPHANOPOULOS:
Those are sacrifices?

TRUMP:
Oh, sure. I think they're sacrifices. I think when I can employ thousands and thousands of people, take care of their education, take care of so many things, even in military. I mean, I was very responsible, along with a group of people, for getting the Vietnam Memorial built in downtown Manhattan, which to this day people thank me for.

I raised, and I have raised, millions of dollars for the vets. I'm helping the vets a lot. I think my popularity with the vets is through the roof, far greater than hers. She's done nothing. All she's done is tell everybody that the vets are in good shape. They're fine. And they're not fine. People are waiting on line for seven days to see a doctor. She thinks it's fine.

Make no mistake, Trump is in the wrong here. I'd note, however, that he did acknowledge the fallen soldier's sacrifices, not that it makes up for the inappropriate comments about the soldier's mother:

"Captain Humayun Khan was a hero to our country and we should honour all who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country safe," he said.

"The real problem here are the radical Islamic terrorists who killed him, and the efforts of these radicals to enter our country to do us further harm."
http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-36935175

Trump will need to be more judicious with his words in order to tread the fine line between politically incorrect versus being an asshole. There's still a tough uphill slope to the White House, Donald.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

@SeijiSensei: I would like to have your input on that speech. It was a tear-jerker, I won't lie about it.

I did not see that speech live, so my reactions to it may have been somewhat muted seeing it in replay. That said, I've thought about why Michelle Obama's speech moved me more than the obvious power of Mr. Khan's appearance. I believe it's somewhat generational. When I came of age in the Sixties the two dominant political issues were racism and militarism. So, for me, a speech that touches on the remarkable fact that African-Americans live in the White House activates powerful feelings that date back to the Civil Rights movement. There were few Muslims in 1960's America (one million or 0.5% of the population), and the immigration issue concerned the treatment of migrant workers by farmers in the Southwest.

I can understand why Khan's speech touches a chord with people born more recently than me. It touched a chord with me, too, but somehow my reaction was less profound than hearing Mrs. Obama talk about living in a house than slaves built. (Incidentally, I was surprised by the backlash against that statement, since I knew it was historically accurate. Apparently I was in the minority. That remark also led to some ridiculous white-washing by Bill O'Reilly who commented that the slaves were well housed and fed.)

In the Stephanopoulos interview, Donald Trump felt compelled to attack Mrs. Khan for her silent appearance at the DNC. "If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me." The couple appeared together the next night on "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell," where she said she didn't even try to speak after seeing the photograph of her son just before the couple's appearance knowing she would break down in public. Mr. Khan credited his wife for much of this speech and said she kept him from taking an even more negative tone toward Donald Trump than he actually did.

[yulinard]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Well, I dont know how the most die-hard supporters of Trump can even spin it. I did have a little sympathy for the man weeks ago. But shitting on a war veteran or relatives of fallen soldiers? That's off-limit for me who do have respect for the army and ppl who enlist there to put their life on the line.

The reporter can choose to not ask that question but he simply just can't? The same goes with the guy sitting on the other side he just cant avoid to answer for that question.

And I can't see anything about shitting the relative, since he obviously don't have the power of mind reading.