2018-05-23, 15:53 | Link #3181 |
Dazed and Confused
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Ocean Floor 13
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I didn't touch upon it in my previous comment, but people should really react to signs more. Zero Two discovering Miku's hair becoming gray, Hiro noticing something's off about Zero Two. This show loves to have loved ones brush off things that would not entirely go unnoticed IRL.
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2018-05-23, 16:08 | Link #3182 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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Number 1: what APE is doing. It's evil, it's stupid, they're a bunch of assholes who hopefully will all be sodomised by Zero Two riding Strelizia with a giant strap-on mounted on front. I think we can all agree on that. Moving on. Number 2: transhumanism in sci-fi in general. Not just Darling in the FranXX. It's a common trope to associate transhumanism ( = transcending the human body) with villainy of some sort, cold-heartedness etc. DitF is just one such example, focusing on the specifics of gender. Now, since of course there is no such thing in real life, this is just a choice by the writers. "If you remove X, we stop being human" is a very common argument in these settings. Now, of course, if humans were uploaded to machines, they might for example lose their notion of gender, because they wouldn't have sexed bodies any more. Such a human could for example switch between artificial male and female bodies at will. We get a similar situation in Doctor Who, where the Doctor (who isn't a human, but is sentient) can regenerate as both a man and a woman, and thus has a less solid sense of gender than a human being would. The point is, why should something like that make us "less human"? It would make us differently human, so to say. It would be a change in habits and customs, sure, a radical one, but it would not affect fundamental human dignity. What makes APE despicable isn't that they don't have human bodies any more. It's that they're breeding child soldiers, torturing them and sending them to die. That's their brand of evil shit, and that kind of stuff perfectly normal humans can and in fact do perpetrate even in real life.
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2018-05-23, 16:37 | Link #3183 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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As i told if we follow that logic them why cats can't be dogs???? if is just a matter of "different view about it or perception??. It's not just a matter of name, like even if instead of "humans" we are called like "bobs", the problem could be the same and peoples could come and complain why call it bob???, it's just not a nomenclature it was did just for us to know how to call it, but what being human is what being human is our genetic/evolution. Spoiler:
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2018-05-23, 19:57 | Link #3184 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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As for the heart stuff, that sounds very shady research. I've never heard of anything like that. Of course if the heart races faster it's at the order of the nervous system, though some work might be done by the spinal chord rather than the brain. If your brain dies you're also declared dead and they can extract your organs, even if your body is still working. The point is that the brain constitutes the essence of the person. If they could swap your brain with someone else's it would correspond to you swapping bodies, effectively. Not understanding everything doesn't mean there's a good chance that part of your personality is in your heart. Your heart is still only a muscle.
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2018-05-23, 20:18 | Link #3185 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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But personally i could have no problem recognizing then as a sentient living and have rights, but again it must be something which they did on they own desires not something "someone else did fforced on them like what APE is doing. Labeling living being monsters just because they are "different is really wrong" and totally disagree with that and believe which everything must have his place and right in the world, my only problem is "what sort of laws to apply and how to apply", because not everything which work with humans can 100% work with them, the laws must be carefull worked to make sure everyone have they fair shares. APE is evil not just because of they "means" but because what they are doing is not what you are "ask for" again, while they want to "create a new life form" it will be getting riddle of what make the peoples "unique" or sentient which is the free will and emotions and that is the problem they don't want just "evolve" or they "idea of evolution" is evil because they want to stripe mankind from what make then unique if was just replace the organic parts for machines one and keep them with all the freewill and emotions ok fine, but they want to strip it off, that is what make them evil, they final goal is evil no matter how you look Quote:
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Last edited by Blueknight78; 2018-05-24 at 16:23. |
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2018-05-23, 21:02 | Link #3186 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Wow, the attention to small details in this show is really impressive.
Been watching Nearly On Red's youtube anyalis of the show and there are so many hints and little details given in the early episodes that come up again in latter epsiodes. For example, episode 3 has 02 mention that the plantation's squad has been wiped out before. This apparently doesn't register with the kids till episode 8 when Miku discovers the picture of said squad. Another cool little detail. The song (Vanquish) that plays in the first episode when 02 pulls Hiro into the cockpit and kisses him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=symHPiLIu2Q The lyrics are actually in English. Good thing one could understand it because its quite spoilery for the very first episode. lol I really do have to rewatch this whole series again once it ends. I want to see how many of these small details I either missed or failed to recognize their significance.
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Last edited by wissenschaft; 2018-05-23 at 21:53. |
2018-05-24, 15:56 | Link #3192 | ||
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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Second, I don't think hypothetical "real" transhumanism would necessarily mean losing emotions. That kind of thing is the strawman I'm complaining about in the first place, the fact itself that the story uses that sort of plot device. Third, even if it did, if someone chose freely to trade some or all of their emotions for immortality, it'd be their choice. If they did it without inconveniencing others, it'd be their business, and if they kept being sentient and conscious afterwards, they'd still deserve personhood, emotions or not.
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2018-05-24, 16:40 | Link #3193 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portugal
Age: 36
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I've seen a preview with subs, and all that theory regarding the klaxx princess doesn't seem much likely.
From Dr. Franxx's words, I can only assume that things were dicey until he finally met/found the klaxx princess. I'm not quite sure, one of you may better understand the preview... |
2018-05-24, 16:48 | Link #3194 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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What i'm using is a mixing between what APE and nines talk, APe say which they are planning free mankind from the "issues of the body" them if you look at the currently "mankind status under APE and PAPA administration is not really different from take away freewill, the currently mankind is almost "machines" without any personnal desire or goal, living just for "living and being productive to the society(japanese life style paralel don't forget about it) them you have the nines claim which gender, reproduction, emotions and that things are "crap and not necessary and are issues" what can be linked to what APE want, ofcourse if this is not what APE really want them ok i'm wrong, but so far the clues shows which APE idea of "evolution" have to do with it, you loose sense of "yourself" as unique person" and become the "hive mentality" living for the coletive. About the "sentient", remember good part of what make us "sentient" is exactly "emotions" and feelings, if you take it away, them we not gonna be different from a "computer", them you can't really claim it's "sentient" if it can't display a real notion of what it's means, a good exemple now if you can watch a youtube or have chance to play could be the detroit become humna, the game is out and it deal a lot which what means to be machine or human with the impact of machines can have over humanity the game really looks amazing i'm start to watch some youtubers plays and the game is taking it really good. Well in the end it's still a very sensitive case and it's not so simple like that. now about the spoiler: wow it gonna be really good finally we get the background of how the things ended messed like that and what APE did finally we gonna know "who is who".
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2018-05-24, 17:14 | Link #3195 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2018
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Actually, the prototype pilot bears a suspicious similarity to 9-alpha, albeit adult and gendered. Here's what I think is going on, based on this preview. omehow, humanity began to search for a way to create immortality. In the process they created something entirely new, a creature made from outside DNA that could dramatically lengthen its own lifespan. Struck by the prospect of genuine human immortality coming within reach, they went forward and spliced human DNA with the DNA of the creatures that they had created. They created the klaxosaur princess. However, everything went wrong from there; humanity's use of magma-based energy rapidly deteriorated the environment, so the plantations were developed as mobile homes in which the newly immortal humanity would live. However, these were limited things, so the human leadership made reproductive sex taboo in order to preserve space for as many as possible. During this time the Klaxosaur princess, otherwise known as subject 01--the first successful splicing of immortal DNA and human DNA--rebels against her creators. Somehow, either by converting other humans or by another process, the klaxosaur princess raises an army and forces humanity into the plantations. |
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2018-05-24, 17:42 | Link #3196 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
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2018-05-24, 18:03 | Link #3197 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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In fact that's why I think no complex AI or mind in general would be possible without emotions, emotions are merely things we are hardcoded to like/dislike instead of having learned or decided rationally to. One of Asimov's robots, built to not harm humans, would feel something akin to horror at the thought of killing people. It would not be a rational desire, but a fundamental instinct, hence it would feel like an emotion to him. In general it seems to me it's just an excuse, like we do with animals, when confronted with the idea of different life forms/minds we just keep coming up with rationalisations as for why WE would be special and different, but ultimately that's it, rationalisations we make up to feel better about ourselves. We keep telling ourselves that being human is the best thing there is and that if we were any different from what we are we wouldn't really be human, so we avoid confronting the not-so-great parts of our species.
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2018-05-25, 03:04 | Link #3199 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Preview translation from reddit:
Dr. Franxx speaking Now and again, Fate is cruel. In order to obtain something, one must lose something else. Humanity has searched and sacrificed a lot for what lies beyond life which is our limit. And then we met her, such a beautiful and perfect being. What does this even mean? Oh boy. lol
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2018-05-25, 07:25 | Link #3200 | |
Maddo Scientisto
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
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