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Old 2013-02-14, 14:11   Link #12081
Tyabann
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Because it failed like a smoker running a marathon.
Against Tsurubami, who has an overpowered combination attack. It would probably be fine on anyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runset View Post
that god mode allow medaka to fight equally with a normal, she combines the god mode that allow her to become weaker than her opponent and the god mode when she was berserk. she would never used it again powerfull opponent.
It "balances her strengths and weaknesses", actually. You're thinking of Forsaken God Mode.
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Old 2013-02-14, 14:15   Link #12082
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Against Tsurubami, who has an overpowered combination attack. It would probably be fine on anyone else.

It "balances her strengths and weaknesses", actually. You're thinking of Forsaken God Mode.
Considering the strength of charcters Medaka has fought post Tsurubami, yeah... Also it's not really a proper fighting mode, it's more of Medaka simply underestimating her oponents. Basically it's back when Medaka was on a power trip and simply wanted to fight.
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Old 2013-02-14, 15:29   Link #12083
Wolfenstein
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I wonder if Zenkichi's now gonna do a bizarre combination system like Kamone.

Devil Style + Contradictory Conjunction + Model Zenkichi?

A skill that negates the whims of fate + A Style that manipulates paradoxes + A skill that lets you perceive your own limits.

Dosen't seem to match, really.

That is, assuming the dude still has Devil Style, which is a bit unlikely.
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Old 2013-02-14, 15:38   Link #12084
Tyabann
Homo Ludens
 
 
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
That is, assuming the dude still has Devil Style, which is a bit unlikely.
My current theory is that he freaked out after Medaka kissed him, suspected that she only did so because he'd become the "main character", didn't want to feel as though he was pushing her into something she may or may not have actually wanted to do, made Ajimu remove the skill, and made Kumagawa remove everyone's memories of the kiss.
Because that would explain why no one has mentioned it since.
yes I'm still mad about that forty chapters later
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Old 2013-02-14, 15:50   Link #12085
Thth
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My own theory is what happened to Killing Impulse (Munakata's abnormality) happened to Devil Style.
Kei lost it after he committed murder and found it boring.
Devil Style was acquired by Zenkichi when he wanted to beat Medaka.
When he did beat Medaka and saw her crawling on the floor as a result, he lost the desire to beat her. Hence it disappeared just like Kei's abnormality.
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Old 2013-02-14, 15:51   Link #12086
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Thth View Post
My own theory is what happened to Killing Impulse (Munakata's abnormality) happened to Devil Style.
Kei lost it after he committed murder and found it boring.
Devil Style was acquired by Zenkichi when he wanted to beat Medaka.
When he did beat Medaka and saw her crawling on the floor as a result, he lost the desire to beat her. Hence it disappeared just like Kei's abnormality.
Devil Style seems to be a more generalized "Skill", like the characters in GLK have, rather than being something tied to personality like an Abnormality or a Minus.
It shouldn't work that way, though it's a reasonable enough explanation, sure.
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Old 2013-02-14, 16:08   Link #12087
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Devil Style seems to be a more generalized "Skill", like the characters in GLK have, rather than being something tied to personality like an Abnormality or a Minus.
It shouldn't work that way, though it's a reasonable enough explanation, sure.
I'm pretty sure all skills are personalities, it's just not always clear how they connect. In the recent narration about Shiranui's Real Eater, they talked about how her being able to change someone's skill, and therefore their personality, was disgusting. On the other hand, it's also the same skill that Hanten has. When Hanten gives someone a skill, it either represents their personality or changes their personality. In this case, Devil Style was suggested by Zenkichi because of his personality, so it is his personality. There's no reason to think it's anything different.

Yeah, there are plenty of throwaway characters like those in GLK who seem to have completely random skills, but it's precisely because they're throwaway characters that it's hard to say that they don't have anything to do with their personality.
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Old 2013-02-14, 16:16   Link #12088
Wolfenstein
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I kinda also subscribe to the notion that personal skills are manifestations of the character's personality.
For instance, out of all of Anshin's skills, only two would work with Kumagawa's personality. And I don't think it's any coincidence that Parasite Seeing was a match for Zenkichi, given that one of his quintessential traits is understanding the feelings of others(why he's so fit to use a style).

Nishio just kinda forgot about Devil Style, it's all.
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:02   Link #12089
Tenchi Hou Take
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While Skills are probablu manifestations, that seems to be limited to inate skills, at this point we have several characters who have acquired skills with no real personality change or signifcant effects, Medaka has acquired dozens Hinokage has had his changed, Kumagawa's acquired another one etc. Zenkichi could have had any skill he wanted, and Aijimu implied he had no limit meaning his personality wasn't limiting his choice. Minus' are more strongly linked to personality the story seems to imply with plus a much weaker link if at all. The only plus that was implied to be personality based was also stated to be the closest one to that of a minus.
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:06   Link #12090
Wolfenstein
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Hm, you bring-up some good points. .

Actually, I think Ajimu has used the term "Personal Skill" to describe Devil Style, so maybe those are the type of skills which are manifestations of the person themselves?

Here:

Spoiler:
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Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2013-02-14 at 17:32.
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:21   Link #12091
Knighto
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I must be the only one who's pretty sure Zenkichi gave away Devil Style in exchange for his own version of the Altered God Mode through Shiranui's Real Eater
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:24   Link #12092
Wolfenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
I must be the only one who's pretty sure Zenkichi gave away Devil Style in exchange for his own version of the Altered God Mode through Shiranui's Real Eater
Impossible. Shiranui directly stated that she transformed Parasite Seeing from a skill that lets you perceive how others view the world to a skill that lets you perceive one's own limits: Model Zenkichi.

Probably because Parasite Seeing kinda became redundant for the Zenkichi after Anshin. He didn't really need a Plus to see the feelings of others anymore(not that he ever truly did, he always felt wrong using that skill).
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:30   Link #12093
Lupus753
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@Wolf: Your image link is 403 Forbidden.
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:33   Link #12094
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Lupus753 View Post
@Wolf: Your image link is 403 Forbidden.
Changed it. Mangareader dosen't appear in the United States, it seems.
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:36   Link #12095
Knighto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Impossible. Shiranui directly stated that she transformed Parasite Seeing from a skill that lets you perceive how others view the world to a skill that lets you perceive one's own limits: Model Zenkichi.

Probably because Parasite Seeing kinda became redundant for the Zenkichi after Anshin. He didn't really need a Plus to see the feelings of others anymore(not that he ever truly did, he always felt wrong using that skill).
In that case it's safe say Zen is the type who doesn't like to rely on his skills for long. It happened with Parasite Seeing, he only used it for really important matters. Taking that into account it's understandable why he wouldn't rely on Devil Style anymore after he used it to achieve the goal with which he really needed the skill.

And again is gonna be the same with the Contradictory Conjuction Style, he's only using it only one time and to achieve one really important goal. Because he needs it, he needs Nienami's style. If there were no need, he would not resort to it.
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Old 2013-02-14, 17:40   Link #12096
Wolfenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
In that case it's safe say Zen is the type who doesn't like to rely on his skills for long. It happened with Parasite Seeing, he only used it for really important matters. Taking that into account it's understandable why he wouldn't rely on Devil Style anymore after he used it to achieve the goal with which he really needed the skill.

And again is gonna be the same with the Contradictory Conjuction Style, he's only using it only one time and once more for one really important goal.
Sounds fair to say. And I kinda like that. It's as if his abilities truly represent the character he's become.

Devil Style in that fate-fucking way, Contradictory Conjunction in his extraordinarily normal ability to communicate and understand your fellow humans, and Model Zenkichi in the understanding of one's own limits(Hmm, I feel an Itachi reference here).

Sorta deep, when you think about it.

Edit:

I can't be the only one who thought of this;

Spoiler:


"Come on! Beat down that evildoer who disturbed our public morals, Hitoyoshi-kun!"

"You stood up! Go! It's morphing time!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wt6XlVob_E
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Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2013-02-14 at 17:58.
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Old 2013-02-14, 22:03   Link #12097
Last Carpet
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Joutou is lisping again, good I liked that about her. Hope she survives in the end.

Can't help but notice that the Contradictory Conjunction Style focuses relies on using the word "therefore" (dakarakoso)

And that word is similar to Kei's catchphase "So I'll kill you" (Dakara Korosu)


Hmmmm...............
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Old 2013-02-14, 22:11   Link #12098
Wolfenstein
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More proof for Zen x Kei.

Regardless, It's interesting to note that Zenkichi was hearing the words of his friends while he was dead, but couldn't recognize the voices.
After, he suffered an auditory hallucination like the one while he was dead, where his friends talked about the current situation, but could recognize the voices.

I wonder the meaning of this...
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Old 2013-02-15, 01:00   Link #12099
Clarste
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
While Skills are probablu manifestations, that seems to be limited to inate skills, at this point we have several characters who have acquired skills with no real personality change or signifcant effects, Medaka has acquired dozens Hinokage has had his changed, Kumagawa's acquired another one etc. Zenkichi could have had any skill he wanted, and Aijimu implied he had no limit meaning his personality wasn't limiting his choice. Minus' are more strongly linked to personality the story seems to imply with plus a much weaker link if at all. The only plus that was implied to be personality based was also stated to be the closest one to that of a minus.
Um... Hinokage did change his personality. He changed from "the guy who doesn't care if people notice him" to "the guy who loves it when people people rely on him". Mister Unknown became Theme Song. It just happened in a way indistinguishable from character development. But that's exactly the point: changing skills is a signal of character development. There's no difference, and to try and draw a difference is missing the whole point.

Medaka's learned dozens of skills, yes. But she's also changed her personality many times over. She went from a complete pacifist who wouldn't even dodge attacks to a battle-crazy berserker and everything in between. Her entire character arc is that she didn't know who she wanted to be and she keeps imitating people or following their advice. They've made this clear from the very first arc. Thus, it only makes sense that she can use everyone else's skills. Using everyone else's skills is simply who she is.

Kumagawa got a new skill. So? He also got a renewed burst of motivation. Ajimu told him that maybe wanting to win and being able to win are the same thing, something he's never believed. Did he really take that to heart? I don't know. "Unskilled" is something that suits the reformed Kumagawa anyway though.

Zenkichi could have any skill he wanted. As in, he could only pick skills he would want. His available options are limited by his personality. The skills he receives are only those that come from his personality.
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Old 2013-02-15, 01:28   Link #12100
Lupus753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Um... Hinokage did change his personality. He changed from "the guy who doesn't care if people notice him" to "the guy who loves it when people people rely on him". Mister Unknown became Theme Song. It just happened in a way indistinguishable from character development. But that's exactly the point: changing skills is a signal of character development. There's no difference, and to try and draw a difference is missing the whole point.

Medaka's learned dozens of skills, yes. But she's also changed her personality many times over. She went from a complete pacifist who wouldn't even dodge attacks to a battle-crazy berserker and everything in between. Her entire character arc is that she didn't know who she wanted to be and she keeps imitating people or following their advice. They've made this clear from the very first arc. Thus, it only makes sense that she can use everyone else's skills. Using everyone else's skills is simply who she is.

Kumagawa got a new skill. So? He also got a renewed burst of motivation. Ajimu told him that maybe wanting to win and being able to win are the same thing, something he's never believed. Did he really take that to heart? I don't know. "Unskilled" is something that suits the reformed Kumagawa anyway though.

Zenkichi could have any skill he wanted. As in, he could only pick skills he would want. His available options are limited by his personality. The skills he receives are only those that come from his personality.
Regarding Medaka, at first I was frustrated at how inconsistent her characterization was. Or, rather, she would change facets of her personality at the drop of a hat, with minimal - if any - justification. After reading your theory -- yeah, I still think her characterization was handled badly and that your theory is grasping at straws.

Likewise, you say that the skill-switching is indistinguishable from character development. If that's the case, I'd say it's just character development and that theory of yours is trying to justify things. Unless the story explicitly says otherwise, that's the only way I can see it.
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