Aldnoah.Zero - generic discussion thread

[bakato]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Nah, that's just not believable. Give me an example of a homogenous cultural identity like we saw here developing on Earth in that time span. It just doesn't happen. I understand the technology changes things, but you're making the argument that 20 years pass and they're referring to themselves as a unique group with a royal family and looking down on others based on their ethnic/national identity? This is a process that takes hundreds of years in normal history. I'll give them a 100 year grace period due to their technology accelerating things, but that's the cutoff of believability.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's a totally massive stretch.

Some people here are talking of racism like it comes from absolutely nowhere. Racism is rooted in a strong sense of racial/ethnic identity, which is like an extended family tree. 30 years is not enough time for a group of explorers to feel genetically cut off from the people left behind.

If you moved to Mars now, right now, as part of a big colony, do you think you'd feel no connection to Earth or its people in 30 years time as a much older adult?

All the characters we've seen spouting this sort of crap were under 30, which means they're true blue Martians born on Mars and likely raised fed on this sort of bullshit. Hearing it from them is perfectly believable. What we don't know is if the first generation actually believe that they're a superior species like the younger generation does.

When those 340,000 settlers realized the power of the Aldnoah and got the genius idea of founding their own empire, we don't know if they did it truly believing that they were a superior species. You may very well be right in being skeptical. However, a morel plausible theory is that they knew they weren't a superior species, but still went ahead and did what they did out of greed and hubris. Honestly, I think they know they're assholes, but this way at least they didn't do it because they actually felt they were a completely different species.

My point is that you're under the misapprehension that the all Martians think that Earth is some mythical place and have a sense of alienation towards Earth. This line of thinking may not be shared among the first generation. It could be that their claiming to be a superior species was just political justification to establish their own civilization.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by bakato

All the characters we've seen spouting this sort of crap were under 30, which means they're true blue Martians born on Mars and likely raised fed on this sort of bullshit. Hearing it from them is perfectly believable. What we don't know is if the first generation actually believe that they're a superior species like the younger generation does.

When those 340,000 settlers realized the power of the Aldnoah and got the genius idea of founding their own empire, we don't know if they did it truly believing that they were a superior species. You may very well be right in being skeptical. However, a morel plausible theory is that they knew they weren't a superior species, but still went ahead and did what they did out of greed and hubris. Honestly, I think they know they're assholes, but this way at least they didn't do it because they actually felt they were a completely different species.

My point is that you're under the misapprehension that the all Martians think that Earth is some mythical place and have a sense of alienation towards Earth. This line of thinking may not be shared among the first generation.

I don't know, a lot of those knights and Count Cruhteo look just about 30 or older and all of them believe they are superior too. And the way Saazbaum talks in his speech and when he describes Earth, it sounds more mythical than somewhere you know very well. And the Princess says that Slaine has been giving her lessons (presumably about Earth), saying how badly they treat Terrans, it think they would have given her a Martian teacher, if their memory of Earth was so recent. It's very weird, but we probably won't get a real look at how the Vers kingdom works and how the people act, until we get to Mars proper.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

A bunch of people discovering alien technology that is powerful enough to conquer the world without the ability to check their power? I think that's a pretty massive change. We don't know enough about the initial motivation of the invaders or anyone involved. There is a lot to sort out here. It's just one episode.



The German people were somehow convinced in the span of 20 years that locking up all the Jewish people in concentration camps and exterminating them was a perfectly valid thing to do. Humanity is basically capable of any amount of evil.

I agree about your first statement, we were given a lot of information, but there should be plenty more to elaborate to why the Humans out of Earth think this way. That if they choose to or else everything feels weird and confusing.

About your second statement. The thing about the German's situation is that after World War I, they were heavily punished in the aftermath that left them very angry and depressed with their situation compared to the rest of the world to the point where they would believe anything. They were already thinking they were alienated thus forming together became easy with the emotions running wild, a charismatic leader, and the environment.

There are multiple ways one can form a group in a short amount of time. One can form a group that shares the same radical belief or has a similar mindset. Another could be a cause that forcefully made themselves aligned into one goal in mind which is Germany. Another is something often seen where mankind is reduce to its lowest commonly seen in Zombie series in which one can form a group by force. Well, those is what I can think of on the top of my head.

We don't have enough information like you stated to see which is the reason.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I don't know, a lot of those knights and Count Cruhteo look just about 30 or older and all of them believe they are superior too. And the way Saazbaum talks in his speech and when he describes Earth, it sounds more mythical than somewhere you know very well. And the Princess says that Slaine has been giving her lessons (presumably about Earth), saying how badly they treat Terrans, it think they would have given her a Martian teacher, if their memory of Earth was so recent. It's very weird, but we probably won't get a real look at how the Vers kingdom works and how the people act, until we get to Mars proper.

Actually, they'd have to be older than 34 to be blue bloods.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well they guy does look like Charles Vi Britannia a little, just younger.

United Stated getting nuked after it already suffered two craters on the East/West coast and the imperial family of the Vers Empire are blonde, it really does seem like the writers has some beef with West.

But I have to say the princess is damn cute and she gonna be the love interest of Inaho going by every others mecha animes.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

she gonna be the love interest of Inaho going by every others mecha animes.

I hope not. I kinda like her with Slaine. Besides, I can't stand Boring-kun.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

United Stated getting nuked after it already suffered two craters on the East/West coast and the imperial family of the Vers Empire are blonde, it really does seem like the writers has some beef with West.

I think it's just Urobuchi's way of demonstrating the power of an alien force.

Spoiler for Spoiler for Kamen Rider Gaim:

He destroyed the US in Kamen Rider Gaim last week too to demonstrate how powerful the enemy was.

That said, I usually hate mecha series, but this one looks really intriguing. Definitely going to continue watching as long as it doesn't just become big robots punching bigger robots.

[GreyZone]

So can I take for granted that most or even everyone here are not convinced that the princess is really dead? Or was her survival confirmed with me just missing an after credit scene?

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I hope not. I kinda like her with Slaine. Besides, I can't stand Boring-kun.

I don't think it's going to matter. While I don't think the princess is dead yet, I think she's going to die eventually.

[Kazu-kun]

^ I'm all for her dying actually. The show's pretty generic so it could uses that sort of development.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I don't know, a lot of those knights and Count Cruhteo look just about 30 or older and all of them believe they are superior too. And the way Saazbaum talks in his speech and when he describes Earth, it sounds more mythical than somewhere you know very well. And the Princess says that Slaine has been giving her lessons (presumably about Earth), saying how badly they treat Terrans, it think they would have given her a Martian teacher, if their memory of Earth was so recent. It's very weird, but we probably won't get a real look at how the Vers kingdom works and how the people act, until we get to Mars proper.

They are probably indoctrinated from childhood to believe so.

At any rate, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I don't think it's going to matter. While I don't think the princess is dead yet, I think she's going to die eventually.

^This, not necessarily the death flag points only toward the princess but I think at least one of the main casts will definitely be death in the end.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

They are probably indoctrinated from childhood to believe so.

At any rate, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Well that was the issue that everyone is putting forth. If the Empire was centuries old, then maybe it would make sense. However, since only about 3 decades have passed since the empire was created, there's no way these nobles were all indoctrinated from childhood. In fact, most of them should either have lived on Earth at one point, or have at least been born there. Yet, they act as if Earth is an ancestral home they've only read about or some sort of mythological land of promise.

[Key Board]

There might be some time dilation involved?
it's weird alien technology after all
Maybe it wasn't just a few decades for them

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Key Board

There might be some time dilation involved?
it's weird alien technology after all
Maybe it wasn't just a few decades for them

dilation is through light years. mars is too close. some sort of hibernation, maybe. but this doesn't seem like the type of show to do that.

[MeggieMay]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

So can I take for granted that most or even everyone here are not convinced that the princess is really dead? Or was her survival confirmed with me just missing an after credit scene?

No, it's theory. If she turns up dead for real next week then we're wrong but personally, I won't be upset either way.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I don't think it's going to matter. While I don't think the princess is dead yet, I think she's going to die eventually.

Well last series the two of us watched and posted on that used this twist didn't turn out that way in the end I had actually thought Shouko would end up dead later in Valvrave but oh boy was I wrong on that one (which was too bad actually - better writing for her could would have helped but we got the exact opposite).

On the subject of Shouko, I think I was more invested in her by the end of Ep 1 than I am the Princess and her fate. With Valvrave we had one of the few character out of Ep 1 who had any sort of personality taken out in less than twenty minutes and she'd been promoted as a lead female MC. The Princess in this show is pretty "generic pacifist Mecha show princess" feeling to me and I'm not sure much has been said if she's all that important to the overall plot. Now, what I do not want to see, if the Princess is really alive, is the same twist that was use to save Shouko. Either the person we saw getting out of the car is a body double or she's dead if that was her in that scene. Valvrave was a show built on a high crazy factor (the end of Ep one alone pushed the show into that territory and for those who didn't see it, that didn't have to do with Shouko at all ), this one really isn't. At least it isn't doing the crazy factor yet, if it ever will. I will say that if turns out the Princess is not only alive but she engineered the entire event so she could swap sides and help the Terrans then that would be original (though I've seen some stuff in other Mecha that boarders on that type of twist) but I really don't think that's going to happen either.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well they guy does look like Charles Vi Britannia a little, just younger.

Confirmed. Ray's a dick. You can tell from the wig.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Well that was the issue that everyone is putting forth. If the Empire was centuries old, then maybe it would make sense. However, since only about 3 decades have passed since the empire was created, there's no way these nobles were all indoctrinated from childhood. In fact, most of them should either have lived on Earth at one point, or have at least been born there. Yet, they act as if Earth is an ancestral home they've only read about or some sort of mythological land of promise.

Nah. None of them look over 34-35 and even then it's not like they would even remembered Earth if they were just babies.

[ReddyRedWolf]

The way I see it the Vers Empire is North Korea in space. They could not win the war so they used a super weapon they barely understood resulting to them blowing up the moon and them stranded cut off from supply lines.

Now I'm expecting a twist where the Aliens return and put humanity particularly the Vers empire in its place.

Resulting to a enemy mine situation between the Federation and Empire.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

The way I see it the Vers Empire is North Korea in space. They could not win the war so they used a super weapon they barely understood resulting to them blowing up the moon and them stranded cut off from supply lines.

Now I'm expecting a twist where the Aliens return and put humanity particularly the Vers empire in its place.

Resulting to a enemy mine situation between the Federation and Empire.

Maybe you should watch the episode again. The hyper gate was damaged during battle and went haywire on its own and if that instructor's flashback meant anything they had the technological advantage.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

No, it's theory. If she turns up dead for real next week then we're wrong but personally, I won't be upset either way.



Well last series the two of us watched and posted on that used this twist didn't turn out that way in the end I had actually thought Shouko would end up dead later in Valvrave but oh boy was I wrong on that one (which was too bad actually - better writing for her could would have helped but we got the exact opposite).

On the subject of Shouko, I think I was more invested in her by the end of Ep 1 than I am the Princess and her fate. With Valvrave we had one of the few character out of Ep 1 who had any sort of personality taken out in less than twenty minutes and she'd been promoted as a lead female MC. The Princess in this show is pretty "generic pacifist Mecha show princess" feeling to me and I'm not sure much has been said if she's all that important to the overall plot. Now, what I do not want to see, if the Princess is really alive, is the same twist that was use to save Shouko. Either the person we saw getting out of the car is a body double or she's dead if that was her in that scene. Valvrave was a show built on a high crazy factor (the end of Ep one alone pushed the show into that territory and for those who didn't see it, that didn't have to do with Shouko at all ), this one really isn't. At least it isn't doing the crazy factor yet, if it ever will. I will say that if turns out the Princess is not only alive but she engineered the entire event so she could swap sides and help the Terrans then that would be original (though I've seen some stuff in other Mecha that boarders on that type of twist) but I really don't think that's going to happen either.

Oh, Shoko was way more interesting by far. Princess Pacifist (cannot spell that girls crazy name ) is like every other Lacus-clone in every other mech series. I actually would be pretty cool if she died for real later on since I hate her character trope so much. However, I think it would be when it's more meaningful for our co-MCs.

Also Valvrave which was a Sunrise series through and through, I've heard that they want to make this a franchise that rivals Gundam, so I'm guessing they might try to be a little different with what they do with their mecha tropes. So this time, maybe they'll do something different with their female MC.