Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Turambar

Presumably got reduced to a pile of scrap or less in the meteor bombardment along with his corpse, really a perfect cover story for slaine to explain his death

I doubt it, that mech has been shown in too much promo art. I think Slaine might have hid it and is going to use it as a way to find out who Trillram was working for. Remember Trillram used the mech to talk to Saazbaum, what if it records those conversations?

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

Inaho might be a Martian sleeper agent. Which would be a hell of a twist.

It's definitely not something I would suspect, but I doubt it.

But here's a more realistic twist: what if the Emperor was behind the whole assassination in the first place? Think of it. What if he too wants to conquer Earth. He would need a cause to go to war and a bunch of supposedly "rebellious" knights to carry it out. So, he secretly gives orders to Saazbaum, one of his trusted knights, to have some Martians spies stage an assassination. His granddaughter and heir is killed, but Mars regains their "birthright" and conquer the Earth. The same Earth that took his son away from him.
As for who would be his next heir then? He can simply delegate the throne to the knight that has gained his favor. Asseylum is too soft to become Empress anyway. She's better served as being a martyr for her people.

Hmm, it's actually a pretty sound theory.

[Maryruss]

Talking about theories...
I don't know why, but I think that will happen in the end of first season, that made Inaho loose his memories or something like that, and he will fight with the martians against the earth.
In other forums I read that princess is just a clone, I suppose using Aldnoah technology, maybe Martians will uses in Inaho, considering he is a extraordinary soldier.
It´s crazy I know

[HandofFate]

Don't know about the clone thing.
But I see the 'double' twist.
That the real Princess did die after all, and its the body double is taking her spot and doing what the Princess would wish she would do. Especially with how this one has a 'hologram costume' of the Princess she activates. She says her civilian clothes is the hologram, but I think it makes more sense the other way.

[CrowKenobi]

If theories are going to be discussed, please use the Aldnoah.Zero - Anime Spoilers & Speculation thread and leave this thread for episode 4 discussion only.

Thank you.

[MeggieMay]

I'm going to try and keep speculation down in this post but I feel one of the big things about Episode 4 is that it's trying to start viewers who haven't picked up on some of the weird quirks going on in this story yet to start speculating on what is going on, in general. Yeah, what is going on could just be questionable story telling but then again it may totally intentional. Just because Gen U. has moved on from this anime for the moment, the other writers are most likely his friends. They may have worked out where this story is going, at least in a general outline, together. So until it all unfolds the possibility the story being told is suppose to be a complex game the audience is suppose to be trying to figure out is just as likely as iffy writing .

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

There's something funny about the way Asseylum and her handmaiden were acting. I'm starting to think the story about the double is BS. Either Asseylum died in the attack and the girl Inaho found is the real double, or Asseylum used some secret Aldnoah tech to save herself, but she can't tell anyone about it. I'm also thinking that holographic costume is hiding something -- maybe underneath Asseylum doesn't look human, or she was injured in the attack, or she's just plain not Asseylum.

Originally Posted by renuac

I wonder how she knows this though. Nothing in her story indicates that she was given any reason to suspect the Martian knights over the people from Earth, yet she and her maid are absolutely certain that they're the ones behind the assassination attempt. Is it just a logical deduction (the knights were clearly prepared for this war) or were the Orbital knights so distrusted by Vers to the point that their plotting to kill the Crown Princess comes as no surprise?

These are two interesting points Ep 4 bring up, IMO. What exactly lead to Aseylum not getting killed and how in the world does she know that there are Martian spies/backing of her assassination attempt? I've been thinking for early on that Asseylum most likely had a rougher life than many had been thinking she had, so earlier attempts on her life was something I had thought had happened. What it doesn't explain is why all of her security detail seems to have been killed in the rocket attack. More than just her maid (who may be some sort of security person in and of herself and is just playing it like she's a simple maid), the Princess should have had at least one other person guarding her. Then there is the question of why she was wandering the streets in the first place. Utsuro no Hako brought up a interesting idea, in my mind, that maybe that really was Asseylum in the car and she survived because of her tech, but then that does bring up the question of where the maid was all through that. I also notice the maid was missing and I think that was suppose to be a clue that it was Asseylum in the car to begin with.

Anyway, how she and her maid now realize it was a Martian attack is very interesting. You know, the fact we know about Rayet's fathers letter may be the connection. Maybe Asseylum was the recipient? If he sent it to the hotel thinking she was dead and her people would still be there to receive it and instead she got the letter and that's why she took off? It makes Rayet's giving her real name all the more a problem for Rayet seeing Seylum is likely to find out the girls full name sooner, rather than later (I have a feeling Rayet doesn't know about that letter (yet)).

BTW, I think Rayet is putting on a "I hate Martian's" act, at least in part. A 101 on how people deal with racism like Calm and the others were spouting off, is to try and fit in with them. Not saying anything would be a better tact, IMO, but Rayet made it clear she's in this for herself and in some ways acting like she's part of the crowd could lead her to be able to use some of the other kids later to her advantage.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I doubt it, that mech has been shown in too much promo art. I think Slaine might have hid it and is going to use it as a way to find out who Trillram was working for. Remember Trillram used the mech to talk to Saazbaum, what if it records those conversations?

But here's a more realistic twist: what if the Emperor was behind the whole assassination in the first place? Think of it. What if he too wants to conquer Earth. He would need a cause to go to war and a bunch of supposedly "rebellious" knights to carry it out. So, he secretly gives orders to Saazbaum, one of his trusted knights, to have some Martians spies stage an assassination. His granddaughter and heir is killed, but Mars regains their "birthright" and conquer the Earth. The same Earth that took his son away from him.
As for who would be his next heir then? He can simply delegate the throne to the knight that has gained his favor. Asseylum is too soft to become Empress anyway. She's better served as being a martyr for her people.

Hmm, it's actually a pretty sound theory.

I have to admit I'm wondering if Asseylum's grandfather is in on this as well. She's way too sure her grandfather is going to back her up. As to her being a clone, possible, but I'm thinking something a bit more complex (I think the original poster said it was from another forum). Whatever is going on may also be connected to her "father" (I'm still not sold the former crown prince is her dad, exactly). I think Asseylum isn't what she seems but a simple clone doesn't make much sense because it limits things store wise IMO. Who care's what is going on here if he can crank out clones of one person? Still, it doesn't rule out that he is going to want to see his granddaughter alive if he can get another world to rule over by keeping her dead. BTW, I thought Trillhams mech was taken along with the Earth group when they left. I figured it was boxed up someplace and may have been sent on with another group earlier.

So what did we learn from this episode? Well it was re-enforced that the female captain is interested in the school teacher being a survivor of the other war. Why that is, isn't clear, at least to me. Only Rayet and Inouho know about the Princess, Rayet is not all that nice of a person (but I feel that's kind of to be expected after meeting her father), and the Princess and her maid know a lot more than they should. One of the Martian Knights is named Vlad, he dresses in Japanese style, and is running around with a Samurai sword Aldnoah (a Russian weebo? ) and Slaine seems to have a plan of some sort (after realizing everyone is in on this). We also meet some new characters with the one with the glasses saying he likes the girl who is Inouho's childhood friend .

Anyway, moving the speculation into the appropriate thread is a good idea. If this show is trying to make us speculate, then we need to have this discussion where it can continue more clearly as episodes go on. No one is going to want to come back here when Ep 10 is airing just to prove they realized what is going on (even though they will because that's just how fans fly )

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Hmm, this might have been answered already but..

1. There were many people in the vicinity during that fight with the pillbug, how come only 3 people saw the princess?

Actually not everyone was that close to the princess. Inko was sniping from a distance away and Calm also wasn't that close since he had to fly that toy plane to try to find any weak spots. Everyone else was on the ship with the refugees so they weren't close enough to identify the princess. Inaho was right under the bridge so all he did was look up and see the princess. Slaine wasn't as far away as everyone else so he could make out the princess with binoculars and Rayet is obvious.

[frodonk]

I don't know if this is still the proper place for this but..

Originally Posted by Triple_R

@frodonk Because the Martian Knights are evil, and want to kill loads and loads of terrans. No, seriously, at this juncture I don't see how this isn't at least part of the answer to your question here.

The Martian Knights might not want to commit total genocide on "old humanity", but they certainly do want to get some sadistic shits and giggles in by killing off as many terrans as they can, at least until the terran military is no more.

Yes, although one plausible explanation would be that they were frustrated they weren't able to wipe out the earth entirely even with all the alien technology at their disposal, and the princess' assassination gave them an excuse to go overboard and try to wipe off the terran military completely. I just refuse to believe that they don't have a deeper reason for being so ... evil.

That's not really Inaho's call to make, is it? And he can't make an argument like this to a commanding officer unless he reveals that "this Scandinavian chick" is, in fact, Princess Asseylum. And he doesn't want to reveal that, so...

I admit that inaho can't do anything about rayet, but what frustrates me the most here is his lack of reaction, like he doesn't care that the princess' identity is also known by another stranger which might jeopardize them all if rayet decides to spill the beans. He just went on like nothing happened, he didn't even try to tell rayet not to tell anyone.

He may or may not find Rayet suspicious, but either way, he'd rather have her "on the loose" and be one of only a handful of people to know who "Scandinavian chick" really is, than have more people know who S. chick is and have Rayet locked up since she's suspicious.

That's a problem for me, we have no idea what he's thinking. He said when he met the princess that the plan involving a double was one of the hypotheses he had considered, but we never got to know that because he just went on like a robot, we never had any idea that he considered that scenario before.

To a certain extent, we should at least see the story being told through the MC by his words and actions, but in this case we never get to see what motivates the MC to do whatever it is that he does. Even when he said "this is for my friend" when he shot that pillbug mecha, it came off for me as a kind of pre-programmed response.

I won't even touch the issue of how mere trainees can come up with ideas to defeat that vastly superior martian mechas while veterans die trying to kill them.

She's a major VIP, and she knows it. People like that often tend to have a subtle (and at times not-so-subtle) sense of invulnerability, as if their VIP status alone means that bad things can't happen to them.

This may well apply to how Asseylum thinks about herself (even if not at a fully self-aware level), given how her favored solution to menacing Martian Knights has thus far been "Reveal to them who I really am, and order them to stop!"

hey, at least she knows how to fire a primitive projectile weapon, and knows when to keep her mouth shut. That displays a level of self-awareness different from what we would typically expect of a princess

I take his comment on humans as generalizing. You can make a generalized comment about humans, but personally hold that you are one human for which this does not apply. This may be arrogant, of course, but it's not necessarily inaccurate either.

I mean, as an obvious example, LeBron James could say "Most people can't play basketball as well as I can".

Once again, given how emotionless and non-reactive the MC is, even when there are martian missiles flying over him, it just doesn't seem that he's part of the humans that he is talking about.

Actually not everyone was that close to the princess. Inko was sniping from a distance away and Calm also wasn't that close since he had to fly that toy plane to try to find any weak spots. Everyone else was on the ship with the refugees so they weren't close enough to identify the princess. Inaho was right under the bridge so all he did was look up and see the princess. Slaine wasn't as far away as everyone else so he could make out the princess with binoculars and Rayet is obvious.

Inko needed to find out where the pillbug is first, it's almost impossible not to see where the truck's position was relative to where the pillbug is and where she should be firing, you can't fire under the pillbug without knowing where the truck was, and by that time seylum is already outside.

Calm had the airplane camera, unless he was able to fly the plane in a straight line to the pillbug, he should have been able to look around through the plane and see the princess. there was also a bit of time after inaho found the weak spot when he could've used the plane to make sure the truck is safe.

It's possible the people on the bridge of the boat couldn't have seen the princess, just the pillbug, but given how the pillbug started walking backwards while moving erraticly, their attention would have been drawn to the reason why it started moving that way. In any other case we would've expected everyone to see the princess, but they did not.

[renuac]

Originally Posted by MeggieMay

BTW, I think Rayet is putting on a "I hate Martian's" act, at least in part. A 101 on how people deal with racism like Calm and the others were spouting off, is to try and fit in with them. Not saying anything would be a better tact, IMO, but Rayet made it clear she's in this for herself and in some ways acting like she's part of the crowd could lead her to be able to use some of the other kids later to her advantage.

Although she does have good reason to hate and fear the Martians. When she says "All Martians are enemies" or words to that effect, this is simply the truth: the Martians who know about the conspiracy want her dead and the Martians who weren't in on the assassination attempt will want her dead if they ever find out about it.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by frodonk

Yes, although one plausible explanation would be that they were frustrated they weren't able to wipe out the earth entirely even with all the alien technology at their disposal, and the princess' assassination gave them an excuse to go overboard and try to wipe off the terran military completely. I just refuse to believe that they don't have a deeper reason for being so ... evil.

Well, in complete fairness, pure pragmatism could be a factor as well. Actively chase after the enemy military wherever they may be found, and eliminate them totally, to the best of your ability. It's a little risky, but with a considerable tech edge, it makes some sense just from a pragmatic perspective of wanting to achieve total war victory in as little time as is reasonably possible.

The Martian Knights probably want to conquer Earth once and for all in this one war.

I admit that inaho can't do anything about rayet, but what frustrates me the most here is his lack of reaction, like he doesn't care that the princess' identity is also known by another stranger which might jeopardize them all if rayet decides to spill the beans. He just went on like nothing happened, he didn't even try to tell rayet not to tell anyone.

That's a problem for me, we have no idea what he's thinking. He said when he met the princess that the plan involving a double was one of the hypotheses he had considered, but we never got to know that because he just went on like a robot, we never had any idea that he considered that scenario before.

To a certain extent, we should at least see the story being told through the MC by his words and actions, but in this case we never get to see what motivates the MC to do whatever it is that he does. Even when he said "this is for my friend" when he shot that pillbug mecha, it came off for me as a kind of pre-programmed response.

Barring a more bizarre twist (like Inaho literally being a robot ), I think viewers will just have to come to terms with Inaho being a bit emotionally stunted. Some may like it, some may not, but for good or for ill, it's clearly what the anime writers are going for with him. Well, either that, or a guy that slowly builds up anger before boiling over in one big moment, but I'm growing more skeptical of that idea with every passing episode.

For all intents and purposes, you might as well just think of Inaho as a very reserved and somewhat cynical Vulcan (from Star Trek). He probably thinks Rayet wouldn't listen to him anyway, so he's not going to bother trying. Inaho only tries things that he thinks will be in some way helpful to his goals. Inaho also strikes me as someone who likes to play his cards pretty close to his vest, perhaps thinking that'll give him more time and space to carefully plan out his actions. So some of his lack of reactions may just be a guy with a fantastic poker face that keeps it on almost all the time.

[Fireminer]

Aldnoah.Zero keep making me feel nostaligic. The simplicity of the plot, the nostalgic setting, the vocal bgm - everything screams of an old-school Real Robot show. Like Zeta Gundam, but livelier.

I wonder the 'obedience' of Slaine was born with him, or the result of his training? A volcano is waiting to errupt. Just look at his face.

[MeggieMay]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Barring a more bizarre twist (like Inaho literally being a robot ), I think viewers will just have to come to terms with Inaho being a bit emotionally stunted.

If he really turns out to be a robot he'd probably get a fem fan base like Date from Star Trek: The Next Generation, instead of this negative reaction

Which is something you're actually thinking about when you later brought up Spock from the original series. It is interesting how the aloof character in life action often has a huge fanbase where it can turn people off in anime. I'm not sure if it's a case of the characters like Inaho in live action being able to pull it off due to there real life actor or if we're simply on the down side of a cycle where this type of character just isn't popular at the moment and would incite a similar reaction if this was a live action show. I can't think of any current live action Spock type characters on TV at the moment in Dramas (I'm not including this type from Sitcoms because that seems apple/oranges to me) but seeing how I've stopped watching live action TV for the most part I could easily being missing some one here.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by frodonk

I admit that inaho can't do anything about rayet, but what frustrates me the most here is his lack of reaction, like he doesn't care that the princess' identity is also known by another stranger which might jeopardize them all if rayet decides to spill the beans. He just went on like nothing happened, he didn't even try to tell rayet not to tell anyone.


That's a problem for me, we have no idea what he's thinking. He said when he met the princess that the plan involving a double was one of the hypotheses he had considered, but we never got to know that because he just went on like a robot, we never had any idea that he considered that scenario before.

I actually think that Inaho has grown a tiny bit from the first episode. Yes, for the first couple of episodes, he seemed totally robotic with no expressions, no way to see what he was thinking, and no way to connect to the audience. However, after the third episode, he began to crack a small smile here and there, we could see the quiet rage he expressed at his friend's death, and sometimes we can see the stoic yet slightly annoyed looks he gives his sister or the slight look of curiosity he expresses when looking at the princess. Inaho definitely isn't an open book, but we can begin to see that there is a bit of humanity there, and interestingly, I'm actually beginning to interpret his stoic glances and actually see the emotions that are there. It takes work and Inaho doesn't make it easy, but it is there.

As for his response to Rayet knowing. Well, Inaho has been shown to be pragmatic, and there's nothing he can do about the situation. Also, really, why would he?
He has no relationship with the princess, and he's really not revealing her just to avoid dangerous chaos upon the ship. Again he's being pragmatic. And Rayet is right. If something really bad happens, then its time to tell the truth about her.
He also can't control what Rayet does and so why should he worry about it?

Also, the part about the "hypothesis" that wasn't his hypothesis. Remember back to episode 2 when they met. She told him about the princess being alive because she switched places with a double. He said to her that that was an interesting hypothesis. Inaho is smart, but he's also pretty clueless in certain situations. He never once thought that she was the princess even though she had just given a giant clue, that was why he was surprised by her reveal and asked if she was the real one. He thought the "double-switching" was just a hypothesis that some random refugee girl had. Thus why he said this episode that "Oh? It wasn't just a hypothesis?" towards her.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Also, the part about the "hypothesis" that wasn't his hypothesis. Remember back to episode 2 when they met. She told him about the princess being alive because she switched places with a double. He said to her that that was an interesting hypothesis. Inaho is smart, but he's also pretty clueless in certain situations. He never once thought that she was the princess even though she had just give a giant clue, that was why he was surprised by her reveal and asked if she was the real one. He thought the "double-switching" was just a hypothesis that some random refugee girl had. Thus why he said this episode that "Oh? It wasn't just a hypothesis?" towards her.

He's smart in the sense he's logical, but he has no intuitive intelligence or has it poorly developed. That's kind of the contrast they were going with Slaine, who is relying on his gut feeling, imo.

[Maryruss]

Originally Posted by Thess
He's smart in the sense he's logical, but he has no intuitive intelligence or has it poorly developed. That's kind of the contrast they were going with Slaine, who is relying on his gut feeling, imo.

In resume, the two of them will make a great team

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Maryruss

In resume, the two of them will make a great team

Assuming they will team up, but they can work separately. Logic helps in battle situation and strategy, while Slaine seems more interested in finding out who the ringleader of the conspiracy is which requires do a lot of people reading and that requires more intuition than logic.

[frodonk]

Barring a more bizarre twist (like Inaho literally being a robot ), I think viewers will just have to come to terms with Inaho being a bit emotionally stunted. Some may like it, some may not, but for good or for ill, it's clearly what the anime writers are going for with him. Well, either that, or a guy that slowly builds up anger before boiling over in one big moment, but I'm growing more skeptical of that idea with every passing episode.

Yep, somehow I get the feeling that MCs in any mecha series are either robots or overly emotional teenagers.

Also, the part about the "hypothesis" that wasn't his hypothesis. Remember back to episode 2 when they met. She told him about the princess being alive because she switched places with a double. He said to her that that was an interesting hypothesis. Inaho is smart, but he's also pretty clueless in certain situations. He never once thought that she was the princess even though she had just given a giant clue, that was why he was surprised by her reveal and asked if she was the real one. He thought the "double-switching" was just a hypothesis that some random refugee girl had. Thus why he said this episode that "Oh? It wasn't just a hypothesis?" towards her.

You're correct, looks like I misread that part, my bad.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

<snip>

Also, the part about the "hypothesis" that wasn't his hypothesis. Remember back to episode 2 when they met. She told him about the princess being alive because she switched places with a double. He said to her that that was an interesting hypothesis. Inaho is smart, but he's also pretty clueless in certain situations. He never once thought that she was the princess even though she had just given a giant clue, that was why he was surprised by her reveal and asked if she was the real one. He thought the "double-switching" was just a hypothesis that some random refugee girl had. Thus why he said this episode that "Oh? It wasn't just a hypothesis?" towards her.

Well. the camouflage works both ways. Her regular clothes could be the ones that look like Earth clothes and not the gown. In other words, she could still be the body double. The only way for Inako to tell is to have her transform and look at her with a device that can scramble the camouflage or a blood sample or hair sample for genetic testing. So it is still a "hypothesis". We know that the real princess has Slaine's pendant. Inako doesn't know anything.

The other thing I thought that was suspicious was that the body double didn't attempt to run after getting out of the vehicle. She just stayed in position and waited for the missile. It was like the body double wanted to be seen dying imo.

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by orion

Well. the camouflage works both ways. Her regular clothes could be the ones that look like Earth clothes and not the gown. In other words, she could still be the body double. The only way for Inako to tell is to have her transform and look at her with a device that can scramble the camouflage or a blood sample or hair sample for genetic testing. So it is still a "hypothesis". We know that the real princess has Slaine's pendant. Inako doesn't know anything.

The other thing I thought that was suspicious was that the body double didn't attempt to run after getting out of the vehicle. She just stayed in position and waited for the missile. It was like the body double wanted to be seen dying imo.

Could be that she was in "disbelief" and shock.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by bigdeath

The way Inaho fought the Mars Knight, fishing for weaknesses, is exactly how the adult soldiers should be fighting. Sadly, only Inaho is allowed to have a brain. Slaine trying to find whos behind the assassination plot should be an interesting sub-plot.

Hahahhaa, umm no. You been watching too many movies.

Soldiers in actual real combat follow orders, and use pre-trained regimen. It keeps you alive and your team mates alive.

Using your brain usually means breaking ranks and disobeying direct orders on top of screwing up your team's formation and coherence. You don't get a metal, you get discharged.

Tactical combat usually is done in the background, either through a CO, or command center.

There is a solid reason for this. In actual combat you are pretty much pumped full of adrenaline, in the fog of war, and completely drunk on tunnel vision. Doing what you've trained 100 times is a lot more effective and keeps soldiers alive more then reflective thinking. In fact considering how brutal friendly fire or other forms of "problems" occur in a battle. Don't think, do. hesitation is a fail, improvising is a fail, "changing plan" is a fail.

AKA deer in headlight syndrome.

Do any kind of sports or martial art, etc. Thinking only slows you down. Being in the "zone" is simply a series of built up experience with a good regimen of training circumstances.

Now, the was the team leader kinda stupid? probably. His first order after seeing unknowns should have been to fall back, cover fire, find defensive position, and regroup.

But then I doubt there are that many active duty soldiers after 15 years of peace (the whole world was marshaling troops after a big battle)

Doesn't make it it any better. The script was made for them to impossibly win. Being first contact is doomed to be bad.

I think the MC has a fight or flight disorder. He would probably suck as a human, but great in a mech...

[orion]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

Could be that she was in "disbelief" and shock.

Nah, self-preservation should have taken over the minute she crawled out of the vehicle. This is what she is trained for.