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View Poll Results: Sword Art Online - Episode 22 Rating | |||
10 out of 10 : Near Perfect... | 71 | 47.97% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent... | 39 | 26.35% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good... | 18 | 12.16% | |
7 out of 10 : Good... | 9 | 6.08% | |
6 out of 10 : Average... | 2 | 1.35% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average... | 1 | 0.68% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor... | 3 | 2.03% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad... | 2 | 1.35% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... | 1 | 0.68% | |
1 out of 10 : Torturous... | 2 | 1.35% | |
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-12-04, 02:48 | Link #341 | |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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2012-12-04, 03:40 | Link #342 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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But that aside, forums aren't here for people to just post their "reviews" of anime. Forums are for people to have a conversation. People are obviously allowed to have an opinion, but that doesn't mean that their opinion won't or shouldn't be criticised, particularly if they make claims that are unsubstantiated or impossible to substantiate. Insinuating that people should be able to say whatever they please and that it should all be dismissed as "well that's your opinion" and never criticised is rather ludicrous. If people can criticise anime, they should certainly expect to themselves be criticised. How is the critic, if they see themselves as such, going to learn to sharpen their skills if they are never given any feedback? And if people aren't interested in feedback, why the hell are they on a Forum like this in the first place? Personally, I would prefer if anime discussion threads were more about having conversations as equals and getting to understand our differing points of view. I don't like this pattern of "person posts review, others react to review" because the reviewer often seems to be trying to make themselves the topic and not actually participating in the whole conversation (except to defend themselves) -- they're more interested in what they have to say than in what anyone else thinks. Of course that's not everyone, and there are a lot good people with all sorts of opinions on all sides that participate in this Forum every day. I think it really comes down to "trying to get along"; you can be friends with people you disagree with strongly -- and even have passionate debates about your disagreements -- as long as you're being civil and are genuinely interested in the other person's point of view (even if you disagree with it). But sometimes it seems the conversation has to start with peeling back the layers of presumption (on both sides) so that it's more clear where the difference in opinion really lies. Sometimes that's the only way to lead to a mutual understanding (and in my view, that's always the goal). (Edit: And regarding the "give warnings when attitude becomes too inflammatory" bit, this seems like a totally separate conversation -- of course that's why we have moderators. But I hope it's clear that my opinions about the show (and in this post) are mine as a person completely aside from this other task. As should be obvious from the sorts of posts in this thread, the only time when any posts get moderated are when they break the rules and/or are too clearly inflammatory (which didn't generally happen even here).)
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-12-04 at 04:09. |
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2012-12-04, 06:44 | Link #343 | |||
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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But no, not "whatever they please", of course mannerism applies (the last bit of my previous post was regarding this). But, you can see that "reviewing" a reviewer means "reviewing" an opinion, a person, and not the object the reviewer reviews (I'll refrain from using the word critic cause it seems it's too much of a loaded word). And if we look back the previous threads, how successful had this been in bringing out a "good" conversation? What I'm disturbed about is when someone post a 'negative' review, the first thing most people do is downplay, disprove, or deny the content of the review or even the reviewer himself (or "pouring in a whole jar of salt when someone complains the soup's not salty enough"), instead of asking "why do you think that?". Or being generally sarcastic about it instead of engaging in a direct conversation. Asking "why" is the first step in the attempt to understand the other party. Though I admit, the reviewer's attitude sometimes presents difficulties, and occasionally when it is asked, some answer more unsatisfactorily than others. And even then, when a rather satisfactory answer is given, sometimes it's still downplayed with "I pity you who don't get it". Which brings to your next quote. Quote:
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2012-12-04, 08:01 | Link #344 |
Moe Kyun~!
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
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The thing with why is why Suguha? Why the importance on what Suguha felt? Why did Reki designed this arc so that we had known immediately that Suguha = Lyfa (I like Lyfa better than Leefa or Leafa IMO)?
The thing is (according to the Scilica side-story) that Kirito's reason (this is but a logical conclusion I brought up, mind you) for even being addicted to MMOs in the first place was because the fact that he was just adopted and her sister was actually her cousin and he wanted to forget that. That's right. Like many of us, MMOs are escapism for the realities of life. Maybe Kirito didn't want to think of anything else for Suguha other than being her sister, that's why he got himself into games. But when the SAO Incident came along, he soon realized how he longed for her sister and the thing he lost of all -- that precious moments he could have apologizing to her for practically turning a cold shoulder on her just because of some "petty" circumstance (w/c is not petty IMO -- is Death petty?). That's why, when he had returned, he "suddenly" became closer to her as a sister. Suddenly, he found himself trying to get over the time he had lost because of that single dumb reasoning, yet he couldn't regret it either because of Asuna. Then there's her sister, who fell into the same trap Kirito got into. She used ALO as an excuse to escape from the reality (at the time) that Kirito was trapped in a world she didn't knew. One by one, those escape mechanisms warped into something she had come to realize as "desire to fly" and "love" for him, especially after she realized that Kirito was actually her cousin, and not her sister. I personally think that, while flawed and bent because the anime company was not competent enough to bring direction to flavor, the theme of the entire ALO Arc is on escapism -- from escapism from reality to escapism TO reality. I mean, c'mon, cool swords, elves, and all that -- escapism into the VR was certainly possible. But what could be the repercussions? What could go wrong? How would you change because of it? And lastly, how can you fix that you broke because you weren't there? Certainly Kirito was right: You can steal, kill, love and basically do anything in a world that doesn't seem so real, but won't YOU as person change because of it? Will escaping really do anything for you? Will bringing up delusions for yourself make you a better person than you really are? (That one's for Sugou, btw) === And thus ends my Overly Deep and Dramatic Analysis.
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Last edited by ronelm2000; 2012-12-04 at 09:29. Reason: Grammar. |
2012-12-04, 08:41 | Link #345 |
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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To carry on from that, Kirito kinda fears Becoming the Mask. And to an extent, a worry that if he acted like members of Laughing Coffin, he'd become them.
On reflection, after rewatching this episode and the last several ALO episodes, I notice something which didn't initially appear to me when I read the LNs (then again I was kinda focusing on the quest to rescue Asuna ); there's a central question being asked throughout this arc: "What is strength?" I leave it to all to ponder their own answer to this question. It'd be interesting, I think, to rewatch the last few episodes in that light, with that question in mind.
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2012-12-04, 14:09 | Link #346 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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It's silly for people to talk about things as if their opinions are objective, but there are objective elements in the story people can talk about. For example, the fact that Suguha is not Kirito's sister and that we got insight into the situation in like episode 4 or so is an objective fact about the story. If someone asserts that no such thing is ever discussed or alluded to in the show, such a claim is inherently wrong. On the other hand if someone says that they dislike the fact they introduced Suguha's character into the story because they think it distracts the plot from such and such, then that is more subjective. People will rightfully try to debate such points and there is nothing wrong with it. There isn't truly a right answer, but I think the idea that since everything is just an opinion that everyone's opinion is equally valid is quite silly and a bit asinine to assert. Opinions are backed up by a person's own logic and reason, and if that logic and reason isn't convincing I do not think it is a very strong opinion. Professional critics get to the position they are in because their opinions are highly regarded for their ability to articulate and reason why they may or may not like a work in convincing fashion. Some people in this thread have done a better job of this than others in the thread of course. That said, the arguments for why Suguha's character could be removed from the story with negligible effect are flimsy at best to me. It is just not very convincing to me to assert such when she is the main heroine of ALO in many ways and the author wrote the story in a way that spent a lot of time developing her character. Granted people don't have to like her character or this story, but what a lot of people have asked for here is for the author to write a completely different story than is being told. Whether or not that would be a good thing I cannot say, but again, I cannot accept the idea that ALO would be relatively the same without Suguha's character.
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2012-12-04, 14:34 | Link #347 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I'm not going to keep this tangent going beyond this (since it has gone off-topic, no thanks to me), but to address the direct issues:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-12-04 at 14:45. |
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2012-12-04, 19:06 | Link #348 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 38
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What I'd like to know is why Kirito never bothered to buy another weapon after the Eugene duel, when it was pretty clear he could've used it in this episode. I literally /facepalmed when he parried that uber mob's sword with his left arm.... seriously Kirito, what were you thinking??
Granted, he did use unarmed attacks but... I can't help but think that using another weapon would've been better no matter what. |
2012-12-04, 19:23 | Link #350 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 38
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If nothing else, Yui's proclamation about Asuna's player ID being nearby most likely set off Kirito's "berserk switch" so these things most likely slipped his mind. |
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2012-12-04, 19:31 | Link #351 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Kirito seems like he doesn't really spend too much time thinking ahead... I wouldn't be surprised if he ever had any plan at all upon coming to the world tree, and was probably afraid of the most realistic answer, that the blurry photo was in fact, just a blurry photo and the idea of rescuing Asuna was just a false hope.
Of course, once Yui confirmed it was true, all bets are out. But even then, he hasn't taken time to think this through, or what it really even means.
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2012-12-04, 20:02 | Link #352 | |
Goat Herder
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Age: 36
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2012-12-04, 20:12 | Link #353 | |
Aldracity
Join Date: Feb 2010
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2012-12-04, 20:15 | Link #354 |
Endless Sorceror
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Oh, I know. It's certainly better than nothing. I was just wondering if maybe the reason he seemed so carefree in the earlier episodes, is because he was afraid that when he reached the world tree he would find nothing.
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2012-12-04, 20:32 | Link #355 | |
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Age: 41
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(To be honest, one of the reasons it's such a long shot is because, if she really was being held "hostage", why would you set her out in the open like that? Why not keep her locked away like the other 299 prisoners? It's only because of Sugou's particular oddities about maintaining this King/Queen fantasy that this whole thing transpired. It was also of course completely possible that Sugou made an NPC to look like Asuna or all sorts of other things.)
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2012-12-04, 20:33 | Link #356 | |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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2012-12-04, 20:41 | Link #357 | |
Banned
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1. Kirito knew that it's Asuna the fact that the girl in the picture looks like her. 2. The picture was thanken in the World Tree and that would also be the first place to look for. 3. Just imagine Kirito being depress from the time he enters ALO until now... I expect a lot of hate post surely. Why is he carefree any? The facts: 1. ALO and SAO are quite similar without but without the "death consequence". 2. It's game and he's a gamer and it's his first time to fly. 3. Asuna is in the game and he has the chance to save her. 4. Yui, their "daughter is with him to cheer him all the way! Add Leafy and a party mate on his quest. Why would I be depress knowing that hope is on my side! |
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2012-12-04, 22:29 | Link #358 |
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One last attempt on this from my end too, I suppose.
TL;DR… Continued discussion about expressing negative opinions and how to react to them Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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