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View Poll Results: Darker Than Black - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 29 14.22%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 42 20.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 37 18.14%
7 out of 10 : Good 38 18.63%
6 out of 10 : Average 11 5.39%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 11 5.39%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.96%
3 out of 10 : Bad 8 3.92%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 24 11.76%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-12-29, 21:39   Link #301
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
The calamity happening makes Yin's sacrifice at the end absolutely pointless.
Pointless? Maybe in the scheme of things, it might be, as the Destroyer still awakens. But how about you look at it this way: Hei was granting the last wish of his loved one. Makes a whole lot of sense to me. Plus this type of decision that flies in the face of reason happens a lot in the medium -- close to Honor before Reason, really.
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Old 2009-12-29, 21:47   Link #302
Jarmel
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He was granting the last wish of his lover who thought her death would prevent the calamity and she was wrong, unless she already knew the calamity was going to happen and still decided to kill herself. The latter however is not supported in the anime and so it would depend on the OVAs to make the latters case. In fact if it showed her suicidal, it would contradict this series as the government was about to kill her and she came up with the alternative of going to sleep. Otherwise she was dying for nothing.
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Old 2009-12-29, 22:00   Link #303
physics223
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Okamura Tensai is quite the bastard to Hei. During the first season he takes away everything from him, and leaves Yin behind. During the second season, he takes Yin away, too.

I don't want to believe that he is that unkind to Hei. I would rather see it as the world going all to hell with Hei getting the only thing he truly wanted back from it, which was Yin.
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Old 2009-12-29, 22:12   Link #304
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Originally Posted by Jarmel View Post
Otherwise she was dying for nothing.
Which could be a point in itself actually.
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Old 2009-12-30, 01:10   Link #305
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Yin is dead, there won't be a third season, Suou is safe aboard EVA 01 carrying forth humanity's will to the galaxy, and that extremely vague scene between Hei and Yin is supposed to provide closure to Hei's character and story arc this season...This really should have been 24 episodes. At least we'll get to see the return of the chinese electric batman in the OVA's though.
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Old 2009-12-30, 01:16   Link #306
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Finally got around to watching this episode. I've been praising this series non stop till this episode, because this episode was in fact horrible.

The director did not go on his promises whatsoever, so he lied. And he once again proved his foolishness by showing that Darker than Black is an anime with great characters, great setting, but no story. None of it really makes sense.

I am very displeased in general with the direction this show took in the end. It just showed a lack of effort and creativity. Typical Japanese anime "everything comes together and is ambiguous ending."
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Old 2009-12-30, 01:46   Link #307
elite-dreams
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my gawd...iono what to say. The first season annoyed me already at the end and now i was hoping for a better explanation in this season but no, it had to leave everything hanging again. I didn't understand why Hei had to send Suou to another world...it was so complicated aughh. And then again, they showed Hei going on his own and not really revealing what happened to him.
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Old 2009-12-30, 04:37   Link #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackRydden224 View Post
The point of the story is to send Suou to another Earth? She obviously wanted to continue her journey and keep her memories. I simply don't see how getting ME'ed again, living in another created lie is the point. This season ended up to be a recovery process for Hei with Suou being the trigger.

Oh well, I will not bitch anymore since I did like all 11 and 3/4 of the season

I guess my only hope of Suou and July returning is Suou staying she is sure she'll meet her unknown love at some point
Suou being sent to that world is not necessarily the point of the show. Darker Than Black: Ryūsei no Gemini depicts Suou’s emotion struggles in a world, well in her previous world, that seemingly chose her to be subjected to events that led her in loosing her meaning of self and her loosing of almost every person she cared about. Suou almost wiped cleaned of her previous memory and being sent to that new earth is a very sad ending, despite being happy in her new world, we as the viewers know what she truly wishes.

The point of the show is for us to empathize with Suou’s ( the focus of the show) and Hei’s anxieties and pains (in particular ,the emotions brought by separation from a loved as one of the prevalent theme of the show) that they experienced within and between themselves. Also don’t forget about July.

Last edited by Suimancer; 2009-12-30 at 06:26.
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Old 2009-12-30, 08:52   Link #309
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
Okamura Tensai is quite the bastard to Hei. During the first season he takes away everything from him, and leaves Yin behind. During the second season, he takes Yin away, too.

I don't want to believe that he is that unkind to Hei. I would rather see it as the world going all to hell with Hei getting the only thing he truly wanted back from it, which was Yin.
Sometimes you have to take a character down to zero to show his true strengths and for him to get his reward (rebirth). That trick works for Disney all the time with the princess transformation stories. The prince goes to zero and is redeemed by the princess. Hei (prince) went to zero. Hobo Hei was the lowest he could go. He had no respect for other's life or himself. Then thru the love of Suou (princess), he got back. He completed his task, killing Yin by her request. However, he lost Suou and faces the reality of "too little too late". He didn't kill Yin fast enough and the kid got born anyway. Prob was the other reason for the ground level power up we saw with Hei's hand near White Yin's chest.

Some hope was given that the loss of Suou wasn't permanent as she lives up the street from him and uses a telescope. The animators could have put her anywhere but they chose to put her in Hei's season 1 living area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CantQuiteGuess View Post
At least we'll get to see the return of the chinese electric batman in the OVA's though.
The OVAs are a prequel to this season. More like you're going to see the cause of his transformation to Hobo Hei hopefully.

-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I found more of that interview with Okamura on 2channel (posts 20-21 in this thread).
Spoiler for interview with director talking about Yin and Hei and any plans for a future series:
Well, if he told the truth in a final sort of way, then some people wouldn't buy the series, like Yin fans. So he gave Yin fans a bone in the OVA.

I hope there is another part to this too as seeing what happens to Hei next would be interesting. I could be like Terminator series. Hei travels to New Earth to prevent history from repeating itself.
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Old 2009-12-30, 09:15   Link #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Sometimes you have to take a character down to zero to show his true strengths and for him to get his reward (rebirth). That trick works for Disney all the time with the princess transformation stories. The prince goes to zero and is redeemed by the princess. Hei (prince) went to zero. Hobo Hei was the lowest he could go. He had no respect for other's life or himself. Then thru the love of Suou (princess), he got back. He completed his task, killing Yin by her request. However, he lost Suou and faces the reality of "too little too late". He didn't kill her fast enough and the kid got born anyway. Prob was the other reason for the ground level power up we saw with Hei's hand near White Yin's chest.

Some hope was given that the loss of Suou wasn't permanent as she lives up the street from him and uses a telescope. The animators could have put her anywhere but they chose to put her in Hei's season 1 living area.



The OVAs are a prequel to this season. More like you're going to see the cause of his transformation to Hobo Hei.
That storyline might have worked better if they hadn't done it the first season, Hei may not have been a Hobo Alcoholic but he was still confused about his identity, cold towards others, and pissed about his sister, and then through the bond that grew between him and Huang, Mao, and Yin he became a better person and faced his demons. You could say if he took 2 steps forward in S1, he had taken 4 steps back by the start of S2, only to then take 2 steps forward again and get back to where he started.

Also, It's really hard to buy that Hei killed Yin to stop the child's birth but it just sorta happened anyway. As vague a scene as that was it'll be impossible to ever really figure out why he killed her(maybe she was gonna die anyway, who knows), and even what became of Hei after that since he never seemed to leave that neutral space he was in. Suou did imply that she might meet Hei again someday, but given that she's off on Earth 2.0 and Hei isn't, and given that there will be no third season, even that is extremely vague(unless Hei did go to Earth 2.0 and just decided to stalk Suou for a few years before revealing himself).

Oh, and I know the OVA's are prequels. In the preview of those OVA's we see Hei at full strength owning people, and considering theres 4 OVA's I expect him to own for at least 2 of them.
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Old 2009-12-30, 09:25   Link #311
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Okay, just finish watching the last episode
To tell the truth, I really disappointed with the ending "sigh" some point i like which are; July was alive!!! and Yin with short hair was cool!

I just hope there won't be a third season anymore because I'm scare to dislike this series
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Old 2009-12-30, 09:28   Link #312
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Originally Posted by kira-sama View Post
Okay, just finish watching the last episode
To tell the truth, I really disappointed with the ending "sigh" some point i like which are; July was alive!!! and Yin with short hair was cool!

I just hope there won't be a third season anymore because I'm scare to dislike this series
Okay, that wasn't Yin. It's the future destroyer of Old Earth, Kagutsuchi.

Yin's fate
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Old 2009-12-30, 11:36   Link #313
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Suimancer View Post
...The point of the show is for us to empathize with Suou’s (the focus of the show) and Hei’s anxieties and pains (in particular ,the emotions brought by separation from a loved as one of the prevalent theme of the show) that they experienced within and between themselves. Also don’t forget about July.
This is how I see it, too.

As for Yin, we really don't have a clear idea of her situation or her motivations because we haven't seen what happened to her to transform her from Hei's "new bride" to the person he wanted to kill. The OVA is important. I'm still wondering the same things others are, but I'm waiting to see the OVA to get a bigger picture.

We do know that Yin's original body is now "just an empty shell." Hei was talking with a kind of emanation of the Yin part of Izanami, it seems to me. Maybe what he killed was just the Yin part of Izanami, which Yin would have wanted since she had no interest in being carried along with the horrors that Kagetsuchi would bring. And maybe what he killed was both Yin and Izanami, which would tally with the myth, in which Izanami died giving birth to Kagetsuchi. It appears that Izanagi/Shion is already dead, having exhausted himself in the creation of the new Earth.

I think the deal between Shion and Izanami was that she would let him create the new Earth and send it away if he agreed to combine with her and produce Kagetsuchi.

When I took a closer look, that list of ideas from 2channel didn't provide a lot that we haven't already talked about.
  • It inferred that the new Earth had a big piece of meteorite in it that sustained people's memories.
  • It inferred that we were supposed to think that the new July was no longer a doll, but had retained at least some of his memories.
  • The Mitaka Documents were ME-squeezed from Hoshimi-sama (the weird old lady/doll at the observatory in series one).
  • Amber used the Mitaka Documents to inform Misaki of Shion's plan, which she knew of by her memory of the future.
  • The Magician was alive; it was someone else's body Genma smashed (or it was an illusion?)
  • Questions remaining: Where are Hei and Hazuki? Why did Suou have such strong emotions, even though she was a contractor? What is Madame's power?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner
...I am very displeased in general with the direction this show took in the end. It just showed a lack of effort and creativity. Typical Japanese anime "everything comes together and is ambiguous ending."
It is possible to make the opposite point: that a neat good end/bad end with all questions answered is the easy thing, and these ambiguous endings are more interesting and creative.

I personally prefer an ending that gives us a whole episode or so after the climax to see how everything shakes down (e.g., Simoun, Shakespeare). But I was satisfied with this ending, and enjoy the difficulty and all the questions and past and future stories we have to ponder.

But what I really enjoyed about this show was the journey rather than the destination, and Suou and her feelings rather than the plot. I loved the bittersweet feeling of Suou's ending: she tragically lost her memories, but gained the life she originally wanted, with maybe the possibility of remeeting Hei or a copy of him (living in the landlady's apartment building nearby?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CantQuiteGuess
That storyline might have worked better if they hadn't done it the first season, Hei may not have been a Hobo Alcoholic but he was still confused about his identity, cold towards others, and pissed about his sister, and then through the bond that grew between him and Huang, Mao, and Yin he became a better person and faced his demons...
Good points -- but I think of this as a strength of the second season. Maybe this is what makes it really DtB. In fact, it is a stronger version of a similar basic character development as season one, for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena
...Shion's copy (of Earth) is floating off into space. It will eventually lose the heat of the sun and turn into a giant snowball, ultimately colliding with some snowman planet for ultimate irony.
If it goes to another location on the Earth's orbit, it can stay there as safely as Earth can stay here. Not that any of this was made explicit. The director was at least aware of the difficulty of having a big gravitational force so close to earth and solved it by sending it away somewhere -- although he didn't deal with the effects that would have happened in the time it was being formed.
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:13   Link #314
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
It is possible to make the opposite point: that a neat good end/bad end with all questions answered is the easy thing, and these ambiguous endings are more interesting and creative.

I personally prefer an ending that gives us a whole episode or so after the climax to see how everything shakes down (e.g., Simoun, Shakespeare). But I was satisfied with this ending, and enjoy the difficulty and all the questions and past and future stories we have to ponder.

But what I really enjoyed about this show was the journey rather than the destination, and Suou and her feelings rather than the plot. I loved the bittersweet feeling of Suou's ending: she tragically lost her memories, but gained the life she originally wanted, with maybe the possibility of remeeting Hei or a copy of him (living in the landlady's apartment building nearby?).
I might have been inclined to agree with you if it were not for the fact that a lot of works in Japanese anime tend to have endings like this that make little to no sense.

Also considering that season one ended in a similar fashion, and that the director promised to alleviate many of the ailing questions of the fans from season 1 (Which he obviously did not)... I can only consider this ending a failure.

The journey was nice as you have put it. That is this show's strength, and the only reason besides the characters that I can consider it a reasonably good anime overall. However, even if the director is the supposed protoge of Shinichirō Watanabe... He clearly is not as good as his mentor in executing such a story (Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo). Seeing as Watanabe's works, specifically Cowboy Bebop, are wonderful.

This is especially so considering the lack of development given to characters such as Shion (She has been chasing her this all season).

I will definitely have to reconsider where I will end up putting this for if anywhere in the animesuki choice awards.
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:19   Link #315
Chidori<3
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
Sometimes you have to take a character down to zero to show his true strengths and for him to get his reward (rebirth). That trick works for Disney all the time with the princess transformation stories. The prince goes to zero and is redeemed by the princess. Hei (prince) went to zero. Hobo Hei was the lowest he could go. He had no respect for other's life or himself. Then thru the love of Suou (princess), he got back. He completed his task, killing Yin by her request. However, he lost Suou and faces the reality of "too little too late". He didn't kill Yin fast enough and the kid got born anyway. Prob was the other reason for the ground level power up we saw with Hei's hand near White Yin's chest.

Some hope was given that the loss of Suou wasn't permanent as she lives up the street from him and uses a telescope. The animators could have put her anywhere but they chose to put her in Hei's season 1 living area.
Why almost everyone thinks, that Hei killed Yin ? There is no REAL proof for that...
And gosh... DTB is not a myth ! BONE just used it, but it doesn't mean that they have to do everything that was in that myth. It's not an adaptation of the myth ... that's why arguments like Yin died b/c Izanami dies in the myth - that's not an argument!!!
I mean it's possible that he killed her; it's possible that he didn't but she still died, but it is still possible that both of them are alive.
There are many possibilities, and in my opinion, the true one is, that he didn't kill her. Somehow they are alive. Remember, that's the gate, maybe somehow he got his powers back, b/c he was near the gate? Maybe he got them back b/c Yin wished him that ? Maybe he got them back b/c somehow Yin just gave them to him ? Maybe he got them back b/c the meteor fragment on Suous chest broke up ?
Maybe his wish was to get Yin back ? Maybe somehow he managed to put her spirit back to her body ?
And maybe he really chose 3rd option again ?
maybe, maybe, maybe... everything is maybe... That's why, now I think this episode was not so bad.
We can find as many proofs that Yin is dead as she is alive (or even more, in that case )
When Hei is touching Yins chest... we can see a naked girl, a body, not a spirit... that's why I think Yin is back in her body, somehow...
After watching 2nd season I can say that someone who seems to be dead, doesn't have to be. For ex. Mao, that magician guy (that hentai guy, Gemma, right ? He should be dead after getting shoot) Suous dad... we thought that he died, but that was just a copy...

It's not possible that BONES would kill Yin.
For many people Yin is one of the favourites characters, lots of people are watching (buying) this just for characters like Hei, Mao... YIN... Misaki... As someone said before... "they wouldn't shoot on their own foot"

And the most important, I don't think that he killed her, b/c she was too important to him (we will see that, for sure, in OVA), after loosing almost everything precious. I don't think he could do that... Don't u remember ?
He was so sure that he wants to kill Amber,
he was so mad at her,
he has so many opportunities to kill her,
but he didn't do that, to the end...
I think it's the same way in this season.
That smile, after he herd that Yin wants to be killed, it might be b/c he finally understood, that he can't!! And no matter what will happen later, he will not kill her...
Or maybe, he felt better after hearing it from her ? -.-' Nooo... who normal would smile before killing someone so precious to him ? Even if he knows that she wants that, it's not a reason to smile... ><'

E: and it really doesn't make sense... why would he kill her, even if it's to late ?

Oah... I forgot to add, he wanted to kill his sister too, Pai... but he didn't, just as he couldn't kill Amber, and for sure, couldn't kill Yin

Sorry for my grammar... -.-'
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Last edited by Chidori<3; 2009-12-30 at 18:11.
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Old 2009-12-30, 16:31   Link #316
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Likely as well, though Haruhi knows what kind of gravitic anomalies its existence will cause on the rest of the solar system. Hilariously, I don't think Shion ever made a moon to go with the other Earth... Or did it take Earth's real moon with it?
The fact that they don't even have a real sky, makes me doubt they even know if their solar system and planetary moons even still exist under normal circumstances. They can't see the stars and sky right?
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Old 2009-12-30, 18:35   Link #317
kitten320
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I'm completly lost... I just have watched whole season in a raw (had nothing to do) and don't get what is going on especially in the end.

What in the world happened with Yin?! Since when she has powers to kill contractors and how did she get into such state?
And is she dead in the end or not? Hei seems to be carrying her body and yet we see her body with short hair in coffin who wakes up and kills those around her...

Did Shion create another world or something? That is so messed up... What the hell are they going to do with 2 worlds now?!

Everything went so well and in the end this? Everything got messed up and no proper action in whole last episode and yet I so was looking for Hei VS Minazuki... well atleast we got something there but what about her other fight? It was fully ignored -_-
If they had made a proper ending then maybe action lack wouldn't bother me much...

Also from where is the part with half naked Hie and Yin hugging each other in dark room? I don't remember seeing it anywhere...
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Old 2009-12-30, 18:38   Link #318
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
*snips*
Proper observations collated HERE. I don;t think we'll ever get it to be stickied, but it's getting hilarious trying to get people to READ IT again and again.
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Old 2009-12-30, 19:13   Link #319
orion
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post

Also from where is the part with half naked Hie and Yin hugging each other in dark room? I don't remember seeing it anywhere...
Well it's not in second season. It's prob in the OVA. I wouldn't put too much into a clip until you see the full episode considering we had a half naked Hei on top of a naked Suou in second season.
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Old 2009-12-30, 19:42   Link #320
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I did say that it doesn't answer all question.

orion
Ok thanks
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