Utawarerumono: Itsuwari no Kamen - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by ValvraveTruth

What you said is not wrong.

I put it with there is 2 factions, one that follows the VN and one that only watched anime. I said "VN may comes first but they didn't say anything about the anime comes from the VN itself, both VN and anime comes from the one who wrote it."

You think Visual Novel=source material, but wrong and most people get it wrong which is common. VN is actually from source material or story script, not "equal", fit to the format of large information and gaming interaction. The same goes to anime pick from the story script itself which then change by the director and writer to fit what the watcher want. So no one ever said the anime story is from the VN or adaption. Because VN so well pack info with good stuff like character development to be able to warp the thinking of hardcore VN fans, which lead to "why this and why cut there". **light novel also has other saying, but leave it.

Applied to all animes, some i read light novel or VN way before the anime. I know what you mean when the anime is indeed silly compare to VN, but that just how it is. Can we really say it is not a good adaption when no one ever said the story will be the same as VN or comes from VN? Imagine the VN does not exist at all, without the heavy knowledge from VN, can the anime be a stand alone enough that the plot with no extra info for us to be able to understand the plot or what is going on?

How good an anime can be is not from how much it fully adapt, its about other stuff. Not me but Well i believe only those who doesn't know the actual info from VN can appreaciate how good the anime it is in some cases. Thats why i tried to rate anime based on just a simple watcher with no heavy info.

i have not play the game and i can tell the anime adaption is crap. Too much fan-service in the middle then a big rush of plot at the end is not a good anime.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Hiro Hayase

At this point is it alright to share some of the spoilers or clips from the game? To give a good comparison of how lacking the ending was.

Please use the anime/game comparison thread for that.

[Hiro Hayase]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Please use the anime/game comparison thread for that.

I don't think I can post there since I want to discuss some of the things not animated that were in the game. Looks like it's only mentionable in the game discussion thread.

[ryllharu]

Looking at this episode individually (and not having played the game), this episode by itself was phenomenally well done in terms of presentation and composition. Blew me away.

That most of it lacks dialogue, relying on show and not tell. The montages show you more than could ever be expressed in minutes of exposition for each of the characters. It ended up quite moving.

The visuals, matching score, and overall composition of this episode was flawless.

Did the series overall have issues? Sure. But this episode puts it in a pretty good place.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Thank God that's over. I only watched this show because it had the name "Utawarerumono" attached to it. But... almost this entire show was painfully bad. Boring characters, overused tropes, and just barely enough of the old show in it for those of us who liked the first ones to be reminded how this could have been better in every possible way. Was there even really a central plot? If there was I literally can't think of what it was. Kuon was the only good part of it, and yet she kept getting pushed to the side despite being a more interesting character than Haku. Oshutoru had some potential, but he got as much fleshing out as a character as Munechika, despite having more than triple the screen time. I thought that the ending would at least be worthwhile, but not only was it a semi-cliffhanger, it did nothing to conclude.... anything.

Utter disappointment. I'm going to delete all references to this show off my hard drive and forget that I ever watched it. I actually feel stupid for having suffered through every episode just to be rewarded with one of the worst anime endings I've seen in a long time.

For the record, I have NOT played the Uta2 game. I'm actually glad I didn't, now. If the plot is even vaguely similar to this, I'm sure I would have been equally bored out of my mind.

I honestly still can't believe I didn't drop this after the first 4 episodes. Ugh. That's 8 1/2 hours of my life I'll never get back.

[Krunk]

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

For the record, I have NOT played the Uta2 game. I'm actually glad I didn't, now. If the plot is even vaguely similar to this, I'm sure I would have been equally bored out of my mind.

Opinion discarded.

In all seriousness, I'm assuming that you had issues with the execution rather than the plot itself. If you've been following the discussion for this show, you'd know that the director only kept the game's general direction while butchering all of the details and character development.

If you actually had issue with the plot, then I'm amazed that you liked the original Utawarerumono.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Krunk

Opinion discarded.

In all seriousness, I'm assuming that you had issues with the execution rather than the plot itself. If you've been following the discussion for this show, you'd know that the director only kept the game's general direction while butchering all of the details and character development.

If you actually had issue with the plot, then I'm amazed that you liked the original Utawarerumono.

The original had it's own issues (namely some obvious tropes), but at least it was clear and easy to understand. The emperor's motivations were simple and I thought the show was going to go down that route, but then it didn't and it... just kinda wandered off in a random direction. And it's one thing to include tropes, another this entirely to make whole episodes dedicated to them. Like those stupid doujinshi scenes. It would have been fine in a one-off episode, but it cropped up WAY too often. There IS such a thing as overusing a joke.

I don't want to spoil stuff for those who might not have finished it yet, but nothing was ever explained about why there was an assassination attempt made on the princess in the first place, and to top off never really delving into the new plot, the show ended poorly. The ending didn't so much as make an attempt to bring closure to anything aside from Oshutoru's storyline.

While I didn't expect to actually like this show more than the first, I at least expected to be mildly entertained. And considering the terrible writing, I wasn't even amused, which is kinda sad considering that there are very few shows I don't like.

What makes me the most upset is that this kills any chance for a good conclusion of this series. Because I have no interest in continuing to watch this even if this season gets a continuation. For me it ended with the first one.

[Azurial]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

My complaint is that it clearly doesn't. If Haku's seiyuu couldn't imitate Oshutoru's voice properly, they could have gotten Oshutoru's seiyuu directly to voice Haku during the impersonation. It wouldn't even be difficult to explain it by stating that the twins' magic masked Haku's voice as well as his appearance.

lets just say that Haku will now have 2 VA one for Haku and one for Oshutoru imitation :/

[Tong]

Originally Posted by ValvraveTruth

How good an anime can be is not from how much it fully adapt, its about other stuff. Not me but Well i believe only those who doesn't know the actual info from VN can appreaciate how good the anime it is in some cases. Thats why i tried to rate anime based on just a simple watcher with no heavy info.

Even the anime by itself has flaws, the fact it wasnt a good adaptation is one of them. So let's look at it without taking the VN into account.

Any viewer who has watched enough series and knows how to evaluate an anime, will notice flaws... Such as shallow characters with little to no depth or background story, the lack of a central plot, the lack of screentime and attention given to the main character and pacing issues.

Some users on this forum who have been following this since the first episode have already explained, and can explain in full detail, if you wish. That's what a discussion forum is for

[Flower]

Well ... hmm ... for me this is yet another series where I scratch my head and wonder "Why?" - it seems it would have been so easy to improve it with better writing.

The visuals were usually good, the characters themselves (poorly developed, alas) were interesting, the setting was interesting, even the basic outline of the story was interesting, and the audio content was really good. (Kuon as a character early on was immensely engaging and endearing too.

I was talking with a friend (fellow anime viewer) about the series and one of the complaints was not the "slice of life" aspects necessarily, but that the slice of life aspects were poorly done - really poorly. (Rurutie might be a classic "victim" of this example wise.)

Slice of life well done shows just that - it escorts you into the middle of a character(s) day to day activities to give insight into what they are like and why and such. However, at the end of the series I (and others) really didn't feel like many of the characters had been developed to any worthwhile degree. The result rather than "slice of life" is more like a "slice of lifeless". :\

It really, really drives home to me how super important it is to have good writing to a series (whether with overall story or character development or whatever) - and for me personally this writing is one of the most important aspects. A strong example of contrast to this from earlier this season for me was the series Tabi Machi Late Show. The animation was pretty basic and simplistic, but I found the series engaging and even moving because the writing was so careful and tightly penned - it had more "punch" only with four eps and being a short.

So much potential ... and so much that did not live up to it. The result is more sadness and frustration, to be honest. Or even a feeling that the series did not deserve a treatment like it got.

For me I would give the series something between a 5.75 - 6.25 out of 10.

[Nvis]

I didn't find much to be disappointed about.

If someone finds the twins, wouldn't they suspect he is Haku?

[Azurial]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I didn't find much to be disappointed about.

If someone finds the twins, wouldn't they suspect he is Haku?

he could say like Haku told them to serve Oshutoru when in time of needed :/ something like that but non the less im Hype for the 3rd game

[serenade_beta]

I'll save my final thoughts for the overall impressions thread, but let me just say this...

What the F*** was this mess of an anime?


Ah, I honestly don't care about whether the game is better or not. The fact it wasn't released for the PC as an eroge already meant it wasn't a sequel. Not that Leaf has the HP left to release it as one... A-ha-ha-ha

[Friday]

overall...5/10

if there were a 3rd season of this series.....it better improve

[MeanMachine]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I'll save my final thoughts for the overall impressions thread, but let me just say this...

What the F*** was this mess of an anime?


Ah, I honestly don't care about whether the game is better or not. The fact it wasn't released for the PC as an eroge already meant it wasn't a sequel. Not that Leaf has the HP left to release it as one... A-ha-ha-ha

i agree most of the second anime was mediocre. However....

The first game was re-released without the H contentent on the PS2. Still had Yuzuha giving birth to a child, tough.

[Anh_Minh]

It's too bad, but I find it hard to have much sympathy for Yamato. So much of the blame for the current mess can be laid at the feet of the emperor they revered.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's too bad, but I find it hard to have much sympathy for Yamato. So much of the blame for the current mess can be laid at the feet of the emperor they revered.

Yeah, one downside is even after 25 episodes...I just don't care about Yamato that much. This nation lived in prosperity thanks to the tech and knowledge of the Emperor. Crushing anyone in their path and taking whatever they wanted without care or concern. Now they have a difficult future ahead, oh well. The Emperor never cared enough about setting up a proper transition of power in case he died, he only cared about reviving the human race in the first place.

I kind of get why Haku would take up Oshutoru's wish and will. But I just don't share those feelings of this country being so important to save as to throw aside everything.

[Anh_Minh]

Even with his science project as the priority, the Emperor should have focused on supporting his little brother who's also a scientist with the old knowledge from before the fall. He should have used what time he had left to secure the throne for Haku (he had enough blindly loyal generals to push it through, while he was alive), instead of that stupid Tuskuru adventure. Then Haku would have the resources of a powerful empire for his research, instead of being stuck fighting a civil war.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Even with his science project as the priority, the Emperor should have focused on supporting his little brother who's also a scientist with the old knowledge from before the fall. He should have used what time he had left to secure the throne for Haku (he had enough blindly loyal generals to push it through, while he was alive), instead of that stupid Tuskuru adventure. Then Haku would have the resources of a powerful empire for his research, instead of being stuck fighting a civil war.

Yeah, wouldn't make for much of a sequel if Haku was put in charge of a stable and powerful Empire without any real desire to do anything with it. He'd probably just lounge in the Emperor's garden and not do much .

Honestly the same reason he didn't tell Kuon at the end of this episode. Wouldn't allow for a massive drama down the road. I get keeping a secret so he doesn't lose the support of the people, but I think Kuon can keep a secret...

[Dop]

Yeah.. I loved the original series, but this sequel has proven to be something of a disappointment, largely in that it seemed to sit spinning its wheels for far longer than I'd expected, concentrating on hi-jinks and not actual story. Maybe if they'd cut some of the 'wackiness' and tightened things up they could have got to this point mid-way and ran to a finale. Instead they've meandered along to a sequel hook, but at this point I'd not be surprised if season 3 never happens as they've used up the goodwill.

I like the way Flower put it, more like 'slice of lifeless'...

To round up, yeah, had bits I enjoyed, but didn't really go anywhere.