(L) Rosario+Vampire Manga

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

As for Alucard, Akasha is going to guide our good guys to the weak-spot (probably herself) and take down Alucard with her.

If that's how it will actually go, then I'm quite sure that Miyabi has some plans that will counter this.

After all, he is the one who refered to Akasha as the bomb contained in his body, in the previous chapter, so I think that he is aware of the risk that Akasha's presence within his main body can do to his plans, and probably made some preperations to avoid the worst outcome (the destruction of his main body), in case things don't go completly smoothly for him.

Since, he had 200 years to prepare for his rematch with the 3 dark lords, and if I would be in his place, I would have prepared more then a single plan that would anticipate the most common things that my enemy could use, in case they had to stand in my way again.

[Alhazad2003]

Originally Posted by XFire

It was one post, I wouldn't call it fixating.....

That aside, Alucard in his true form, with his full power, was defeated by the three Evil Kings (or whatever their name was). Akasha may or may not be gone, so let's leave her aside. Tohou is injured but probably still in the fight. The Headmaster just showed up and has apparently already prepared for this. Not the ideal situation, but those three aren't the only fighting power available.

Moka is probably out, for now at least. Tsukune thinks Omote is dead, and Ura might be. I doubt he's feeling particularly stable right now, so chances are we get a berserker rage. Considering how Akasha fought it, this might or might not be effective. And I highly doubt the rest of the monster world will just ignore this, so expect the calvary soon.

Also, it's been hundreds of years since Alucard was sealed. Humans have made a few important improvements in weaponry since then. Like, you know, nuclear missiles. Considering the whole "vaporize him to kill him" thing, I'd say this could work.

He was barely defeated via a last-ditch effort by Akasha i.e. jumping down his throat and forcing him into eternal slumber via her blood. Thankfully it worked, or there wouldn't have been a world for Tsukune to exist in. But now, Akasha is still incapacitated, Fuhai has grown old and weak, and Mikogami remains unknown. The chances of history repeating itself now are very slim, at best.

If Tsukune goes berserk and tries to fight against a Godzilla-sized enemy, he will be obliterated. Miyabi already said he has no more use for Tsukune, so if our hero gets any foolish ideas, they'll be the last ones he'll ever entertain. As for other monsters fighting Alucard, doubtful. Many of them would probably be cheering him to destroy the humans who'd driven them to extinction and whatnot. So I wouldn't count on any cavalry coming anytime soon.

And I doubt nuking Alucard will stop him, heck he might access to nukes himself. Or even worse, he could turn them back towards their owners, who'd then realize how destructive nuclear weapons can really be. So I wouldn't put too much stock in such a plan. As Jack Frost said way back when, it's the destiny of Tsukune and Moka to change the world, so ultimately it'll be up to them to stop the Lord of Darkness once and for all. But it's not gonna happen now, not a chance. As Alucard said, the reign of Darkness has begun. And it's not gonna be ended so easily, sad to say.

[bludvein]

Unless Tsukune finishes his mutation into whatever and Moka starts using her full power as a shinso, there is no way this can end well. Even then it would be a bit of an asspull. They may have the potential strength to defeat Alucard, but Tsukune at least could use a lot more training. Especially since Alucard is like the strongest monster in the world. If Moka and Tsukune could beat him already there wouldn't be much point to further battles. The whole egg plot wouldn't have much suspense.

So either it goes even more down the shitter and Alucard rampages around for a year or two, or Mikogami manages to put off the confrontation somehow.

[DragoZERO]

Luckily, we all know she will come back somehow. I hope, lol.

Moka, Tsukune and Akasha will defeat Alucard.

And Ikeda needs to stop watching Alien.

[Wood_Woody]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

Moka, Tsukune and Akasha will defeat Alucard.

And Ikeda needs to stop watching Alien.

Does that mean Akasha will turn up and say "Get away from her you bitch?"

For those of your believing that Alucard won't be dealt with in this arc......why? A giant monster is rampaging around destroying the place with purpose and it's intelligent evil cohort is pulling the strings. Last time the monster was around it tried to destroy the world in seven days.

There is no luxury of being able to stall it, make it retreat or hide. Where does it go otherwise? There's ver little chance of it being able to go back to sleep.

It's kill or be killed for our motley crew of heroes.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by Wood_Woody

Does that mean Akasha will turn up and say "Get away from her you bitch?"

For those of your believing that Alucard won't be dealt with in this arc......why? A giant monster is rampaging around destroying the place with purpose and it's intelligent evil cohort is pulling the strings. Last time the monster was around it tried to destroy the world in seven days.

There is no luxury of being able to stall it, make it retreat or hide. Where does it go otherwise? There's ver little chance of it being able to go back to sleep.

It's kill or be killed for our motley crew of heroes.

I already outlined the main points of the problems facing the heroes. Frankly, they don't have the power to beat Alucard right now. Akasha and the rest of the dark lords only managed a temporary seal at their best, and now Akasha is out of the game, Tohou Fuhai is weakened by old age, and we don't really know what level Mikogami is at. Not to mention Alucard is supposedly even stronger now then he was.

Moka and Tsukune might have the power eventually, but they don't right now. They have to exceed the previous generation of dark lords' to even have a chance. They are also on their last legs physically already. I would call a serious asspull if they could win a straight-up fight with him.

Plus Alucard is the biggest bad in this 'verse. Beating him here would make any future villains irrelevant. So they need to stall the confrontation somehow.

[GrrDraxin]

Indeed, the only way to stall for time at this point is to hope that Mikogami had set up a dimensional barrier to trap Alucard inside of, if only temporarily. Otherwise it will take only 7 days to destroy the world... Unless someone could cast "Super Slow" on Alucard's main body to make it seem like a statue for the time being.

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Wood_Woody

For those of your believing that Alucard won't be dealt with in this arc......why? A giant monster is rampaging around destroying the place with purpose and it's intelligent evil cohort is pulling the strings. Last time the monster was around it tried to destroy the world in seven days.

There is no luxury of being able to stall it, make it retreat or hide. Where does it go otherwise? There's ver little chance of it being able to go back to sleep.

It's kill or be killed for our motley crew of heroes.

Because there are still plot points that haven't been resolved, like the matter of the eggs, planted in various locations around the world, the matter of Tsukune's transformation ... the conclusion to the romance subplot of the series, or the matter of Tsukune's rematch with Kuyou and finally the matter of humans and ayashi stating to coexist with each other, which requires some development as well.

Also, the intelligent side of Alucard has been introduced ... two chapters ago ... make me a list of manga who had the main big bad destroyed a few chapters after he has been introduced, unless ... the manga has been axed or some other event has caused it to end prematurely (but, I don't see it happening in the case of this manga).

We don't even know what kind of objective Alucard has ... it might not be the destruction of the R+V world, but something else, that will be revealed in the future chapters.

The matter of Alucard destroying the world in 7 days, I think it was Akua exaggerating things a little bit ... since,apart from her saying it, there hasn't been anything that states that it would take so little time for Alucard to realize his goals.

Finally, it's you who thinks that they don't have the luxury of making Alucard retreat or go somewhere, since I definitely think that Alucard has some other base, apart from the Floating Garden, hidden somewhere in the human world.

Not to mention, I don't see the heroes being powerful enough to defeat Alucard, without Ikeda pulling some gigantic a**pulls.

So, if you really think this manga is going to end with this arc, then we will get a tragic or downer ending where everyone dies and the bad guy wins.

While, I'm quite sure that the good guys are going to do something that will provide a delay to Alucard's plans, I don't see him being defeated here ... since like I said above, that would require too many a**pulls to execute, and would most likely provide us with an anti climatic ending.

Basically, things will take an even darker turn, after this arc ends ... and it will take some time before they get better.

[Waven]

Wood_Woody didn't predict the series to end with the current arc but the current arc to end with Alucard's death. The reactions to it kinda show that some people are reading R+V as a battle manga where the death of the supposedly strongest villain would mean the end of the series it seems.

Both delaying Alucard and killing him off for good during this very arc will make for a poor plot progression imo and this is mostly the result of this dragging arc. Delaying its end requires additional plot time for the good guys to "get stronger" either with another training arc or a "find the magical artifact" arc - both are quite lame tbh. Killing him within 2-3 chapters on the other hand would be an anticlimatic end to the long-running fairy tale metaplot.

While both paths are clumsy I'd rather see the latter and Alucard wreaking havoc in the human world being used as a catalyst to trigger a serious human - ayashi conflict with our heroes right in the middle, maybe even torn between sides. Let Mikogami die in the fight against Alucard and yokai academy's barrier might be in danger of being negated and thus the school exposed to the human world.

Personally I just want the R+V back that had such great focus on the characters rather than DBZ style fighting arcs. For instance, the siren arc is a good example of when R+V shines to me, even if the arc was mostly about side chars.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

We're getting somewhere.

Yes, she no longer attempts suicide. That does not mean she's perfectly fine. Although her psych has recovered, it has definitely been irrevocably changed... As we can see.

As for the rest if your argument about Negima, I'm honest in saying I don't remember much of that series. But I can say a number of things confidently.

Eva was defeated by Negi. By wind magic. No demon stuff. How does worlds #1 wanted sorceress get handled like that, idk. Heck she becomes his mentor, teaching him stuff, not visa versa.

Chao was 100% loopy. If I was put in her position, I would be 10x more serious than she was, getting all attached with characters and then "see-ya-later-ing" on everyone.

Comas are so insignificant in manga. Heck even Shiro from deadman wonderland got out of hers. Meanwhile, Moka is dead. Which one suffered more?

Getting your horns sawed off is not as bad as getting your arms and torso chopped off. We have no idea what happened to her tribe. If Negima was as realistic as RV, we'd see some massive pillaging and murder. But no. Ken refuses to realistically put the trigger to their heads.

I'm going to stop there for one reason.

Negima has some sad stories. Here's the kicker, though: everything ends happily for pretty much everyone. Check that, everyone is happy. All of the wounds that they suffered magically disappeared... Poof! Like magic. ( and it is magic!)

Rosario vampire.... Well, Sharon lost his dad and had his mangled corse displayed to him. The wounds have not disappeared, and they won't. This victory against Alucard means NOTHING. It just prolongs the nasty cycle that has already existed.

At the end of Negima, their victory meant something. Tragedy was avoided. A planet was saved. Kuu Fei takes care of smuggling rings off screen, etc. Ken conveys the sense of pure utopia, especially at the end.

In RV... Well there are always going to be the outlaws, rapists, sadists, mafia men and countless other tragedy makers that will continue their work unimpeded. No justice was given to Jasmine's murderers, etc.



As for Alucard, Akasha is going to guide our good guys to the weak-spot (probably herself) and take down Alucard with her.

So we've moved from "more mature" to "more grim-dark". To which I say, "yeah, pretty much."

Negi has a trauma far worse than Mizore's, as he saw his entire village killed in front of him, and he never gets over it. It's pointed out several times that he is psychologically broken on a fundamental level, and this is the reason he becomes so strong: He uses the power of darkness to turn that into strength.

Eva was sealed by Negi's father, who had enough magic power to suppress hers to the level of a ten-year old. And even then she could still fight on par with Negi, who was born with more magic than ten normal wizards. And she would have won if the seal hadn't re-activated.

I wasn't comparing the coma to Moka's death, I was just pointing out that remembering her past wasn't as painless as you said.

Her horns are connected to her brain, my friend.

And here we get to the core of my disagreement with you. Why does the ability to win make a series less realistic? They don't fix everything, there are wars going on for years afterwards that were intense enough to delay Asuna's awakening by twenty years. But yes, they stop the world from vanishing. It takes them one hundred years and the resources of an entire planet to do so. And for some reason you believe that this is less realistic than locking Cthulu under the house of the only person who can wake him up?

Again, I'd like to point out that the reason Negima has such an "ideal" universe is because the strongest characters in it got together and basically beat the darkness out of it, and that the MC in Negima has a fundamental difference with Tsukune. Tsukune is trying to stay as normal as possible so he and the others can go back to their normal lives. Negi turns himself into a demon god and forces the world to back the fuck away from Asuna, altering the fundamental laws of the world to save her.

[Wood_Woody]

Originally Posted by Waven

Wood_Woody didn't predict the series to end with the current arc but the current arc to end with Alucard's death. The reactions to it kinda show that some people are reading R+V as a battle manga where the death of the supposedly strongest villain would mean the end of the series it seems.

I'm glad you read what I was getting at correctly.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about the dire emergency that the cast find themselves in. Eggs planted elsewhere, romance subplots, a rematch with a Kitsune........none of this is relevant while there is a massive Xenomorph ready to kill everything in sight.

It doesn't matter what Alucards intentions are either. The cast would have to assume he's about to start wiping out humans and those ayashi that are against him, hence there are no luxuries to be had.

The cast are out of time. There's no time for them to get extra training or anything like that. It'll just have to be fight with what they've got.

The author has brought it about to this point. Letting the arc drag on too long has had something of a negative effect. Looking aside from how the plot is probably going to go, realism would have Alucard using his postion of strength and finishing everone off while the goings good.

[Chris38]

^ We will see, how it goes ... in the future chapters. I mean we can discuss all we want what could or should happen, but it's not our story ... and it's hard to say how the author is going to continue the story, with the number of plot twists and other unpredictable things that happened in the current, pretty long arc.

After all, he definitely has quite a few possible options on how this arc is going to continue...

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by XFire

So we've moved from "more mature" to "more grim-dark". To which I say, "yeah, pretty much."

Negi has a trauma far worse than Mizore's, as he saw his entire village killed in front of him, and he never gets over it. It's pointed out several times that he is psychologically broken on a fundamental level, and this is the reason he becomes so strong: He uses the power of darkness to turn that into strength.

Eva was sealed by Negi's father, who had enough magic power to suppress hers to the level of a ten-year old. And even then she could still fight on par with Negi, who was born with more magic than ten normal wizards. And she would have won if the seal hadn't re-activated.

I wasn't comparing the coma to Moka's death, I was just pointing out that remembering her past wasn't as painless as you said.

Her horns are connected to her brain, my friend.

And here we get to the core of my disagreement with you. Why does the ability to win make a series less realistic? They don't fix everything, there are wars going on for years afterwards that were intense enough to delay Asuna's awakening by twenty years. But yes, they stop the world from vanishing. It takes them one hundred years and the resources of an entire planet to do so. And for some reason you believe that this is less realistic than locking Cthulu under the house of the only person who can wake him up?

Again, I'd like to point out that the reason Negima has such an "ideal" universe is because the strongest characters in it got together and basically beat the darkness out of it, and that the MC in Negima has a fundamental difference with Tsukune. Tsukune is trying to stay as normal as possible so he and the others can go back to their normal lives. Negi turns himself into a demon god and forces the world to back the fuck away from Asuna, altering the fundamental laws of the world to save her.

To start wrapping this talk up.

A. Negi was pretty young when his village was slaughtered. He's scarred, but being sexually abused when you're memory is much more vivid is going to hurt more, especially when you're old enough to remember every detail.

B. okay the horn thing is granted. I forgot about that.

Basically, there is a couple of things that make RV and Negima vastly different.

First off, most of the plot of Negima is so bloody random and chancy. When I first started, I was not expecting them to go to mars. I also didn't expect every girl in the classroom would kiss negi (or a significant other) and get endowed ridiculous powers. Things in that series was so freaking random, and chance always favored the classroom to a ridiculous extent.

Compare that to Rosario vampire. Have they been lucky lately? Not really. Every foe they face is a close brush with failure. They only had one month to prepare for a battle arc. They have no comfort zone that was constant in Negima.

In conclusion, Negima's tone, drawing style and attitude was so much more forgiving to the protagonists. So many things went their way it's not even funny. They held fighting tournaments in their spare time. In contrast to RV, where every conflict seems to grow into another. No time-traveling allies here, no tournaments to compare strength or practice.

[Tachibana]

So, what if the supposed passing of Omote is the catalyst for Tsukune to assume his final for and full power?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Mach56gs

To start wrapping this talk up.

A. Negi was pretty young when his village was slaughtered. He's scarred, but being sexually abused when you're memory is much more vivid is going to hurt more, especially when you're old enough to remember every detail.

B. okay the horn thing is granted. I forgot about that.

Basically, there is a couple of things that make RV and Negima vastly different.

First off, most of the plot of Negima is so bloody random and chancy. When I first started, I was not expecting them to go to mars. I also didn't expect every girl in the classroom would kiss negi (or a significant other) and get endowed ridiculous powers. Things in that series was so freaking random, and chance always favored the classroom to a ridiculous extent.

Compare that to Rosario vampire. Have they been lucky lately? Not really. Every foe they face is a close brush with failure. They only had one month to prepare for a battle arc. They have no comfort zone that was constant in Negima.

In conclusion, Negima's tone, drawing style and attitude was so much more forgiving to the protagonists. So many things went their way it's not even funny. They held fighting tournaments in their spare time. In contrast to RV, where every conflict seems to grow into another. No time-traveling allies here, no tournaments to compare strength or practice.

It was three years ago for him. And he has total recall. That flash-back scene we saw? That was him projecting his memory.

Also, she wasn't sexually abused, she was kissed. That's all. The reason she was so messed up was because she thought she had betrayed Tsukune.

And what the hell do you mean lucky? The second they step in the magical world Negi gets impaled with a spear. The class is hurled in all directions across an unknown world. Three of them work as slaves, and the whole reason Negi and Kotaro are in that tournament is to get enough money to free them. When they finally get freed, that damn governor tries to blackmail Negi. Then Rakan dies. Then Cosmo Entelekia reveals that they are going to destroy (save?) the world. And the final battle is a series of SNAFU's so ridiculous that the situation seemed literally hopeless (*cough*Alucard*cough*) before they barely manage to move things back to their original plan and win.

And winning that battle is nothing more than one battle. Negi spends the next hundred years of his life keeping everything on track, and he nearly lost Asuna forever as his thanks. Would have, if Chao hadn't come back.

Rosa Vamp had it's protagonist's know exactly what they were getting into, and they went into it knowing some of them might not make it out (yeah right). Also, despite losing several of their battles against people explicitly trying to kill them, everyone survived. The only reason the Negima characters survive is because the bad guys aren't trying to kill anyone. In fact, they want to save them all. As opposed to destroy the world for the lulz.

[Chris38]

Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune

So, what if the supposed passing of Omote is the catalyst for Tsukune to assume his final for and full power?

It might be the catalyst to become a second Alucard, losing his sanity in the process, due to the rage he would fell.

If that's what you consider as Tsukune's final form, and gaining his full power, then yeah the possibility of that exists.

If it's the opposite ... then I doubt that rage, hatred and anger at Alucard is going to help Tsukune in gaining control over his transformation, and reach the full extent of his capabilities.

Not to mention such a development, would be pretty much one of the a**pulls that I wouldn't like to see in the current arc, considering the amount of time, and development that was put into Tsukune's transformation.

If all the problems that Tsukune has with his powers, would be "magically" resolved, due to losing Outer Moka, then I would really lower some of my expectations regarding Ikeda's story writing capabilities...

[bludvein]

When I say stall, I didn't mean for a short level grinding session. I was thinking more like up to a year at least. They can spend that time taking care of Alucard's backup plan and dealing with all the fallout of this arc while gradually getting stronger.

This may not be a battle manga exactly, but that doesn't mean the battles aren't important. If they could beat Alucard the author would have to drag out even more absurd villains to give it any sort of suspense.

So im thinking Mikogami traps Alucard in a great barrier, or somehow banishes him to one of the artificial dimensions that he has been shown to create. He has had time to prepare something clever, even if he doesn't have the power to win straight up.

[Mach56gs]

Originally Posted by XFire

It was three years ago for him. And he has total recall. That flash-back scene we saw? That was him projecting his memory.

Also, she wasn't sexually abused, she was kissed. That's all. The reason she was so messed up was because she thought she had betrayed Tsukune.

And what the hell do you mean lucky? The second they step in the magical world Negi gets impaled with a spear. The class is hurled in all directions across an unknown world. Three of them work as slaves, and the whole reason Negi and Kotaro are in that tournament is to get enough money to free them. When they finally get freed, that damn governor tries to blackmail Negi. Then Rakan dies. Then Cosmo Entelekia reveals that they are going to destroy (save?) the world. And the final battle is a series of SNAFU's so ridiculous that the situation seemed literally hopeless (*cough*Alucard*cough*) before they barely manage to move things back to their original plan and win.

And winning that battle is nothing more than one battle. Negi spends the next hundred years of his life keeping everything on track, and he nearly lost Asuna forever as his thanks. Would have, if Chao hadn't come back.

Rosa Vamp had it's protagonist's know exactly what they were getting into, and they went into it knowing some of them might not make it out (yeah right). Also, despite losing several of their battles against people explicitly trying to kill them, everyone survived. The only reason the Negima characters survive is because the bad guys aren't trying to kill anyone. In fact, they want to save them all. As opposed to destroy the world for the lulz.

Now you're doing what I did.

Mizore was just kissed.... Did you not see the scene? He molested her afterwards.

Yes, they get scattered, and for months they aren't attacked, allowing them a wonderful time to practice and prepare for the upcoming tournament and blah blah blah.

If you're a villan in RV you'd track them down and kill them one by one. But no, in Negima the bad guys just twittle their thumbs. Oh, right because they want to save everyone.

And that's the main difference. In RV Alucard just wants to kill everyone. In Negima, every bad guy has good intentions and pure hearts and other baloney. They don't even classify as bad people, just misled and confused. It's like fairy tale, where every bad guy group has at least one person who's just "misled" and "pure-in-the-core". It's childish and improbable, and occurs chiefly in lighthearted manga. It's not something that's bad, but you see it ALL THE TIME.

@chris.

Much like ruby's master, Alucard is aware of this weakness, but he may be unable to do anything about it.

[Alhazad2003]

Originally Posted by Shinso Tsukune

So, what if the supposed passing of Omote is the catalyst for Tsukune to assume his final for and full power?

As Chris already said, it's highly unlikely. And I concur, it almost sounds like you also want Tsukune to singlehandedly stop Alucard, there and then. Though I'm sure Ikeda has made it all but undeniable that Alucard won't be defeated in this arc, not completely anyway. He may be slowed down somehow, but definitely not stopped.

More likely, Ura-chan will have to rein Tsukune in, and once the chaos has subsided, start training him more aggressively. They both need it if they even hope to challenge the Lord of Darkness in Season III, that's when I see Tsukune assuming his final form. But not now, that's to be expected of some fanfiction authors, not serious storytellers like Ikeda.

[Waven]

Originally Posted by Alhazad2003

As Chris already said, it's highly unlikely. And I concur, it almost sounds like you also want Tsukune to singlehandedly stop Alucard, there and then. Though I'm sure Ikeda has made it all but undeniable that Alucard won't be defeated in this arc, not completely anyway. He may be slowed down somehow, but definitely not stopped.

More likely, Ura-chan will have to rein Tsukune in, and once the chaos has subsided, start training him more aggressively. They both need it if they even hope to challenge the Lord of Darkness in Season III, that's when I see Tsukune assuming his final form. But not now, that's to be expected of some fanfiction authors, not serious storytellers like Ikeda.

Are there any clues or even proof as to why Tsukune definitely needs another training arc and not go all out right away which make it so "undeniable" for Alucard to not get defeated in the current arc? What exactly makes your guess better than others`? Isn't it more like you don't want Alucard to get finished this arc as much as some people want the arc to end with his death?

@Chris38
I don't know what else would be required for Tsukune to use his shinso/bat/superghoul/whateveryouwannacallit form. It was teased once during his initial training and hinted at during his last fight. Not that much actual development and time put in this very device, just a lot of hype it seems.

Extreme emotions to unleash the protagonist's full potential - That is a classic trope. Now there can be no stronger emotional catalyst for Tsukune than the alleged death of Moka, the most important person in his life. So what will Ikeda use in a theoretical second arc against Alucard as emotional impetus when he already played his best card?