Sword Art Online - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Dengar]

I still don't understand. Won't the story's "Real Plot" be just like this? You know, since SAO's premise is "Thousands of people trapped in a game and how they cope with it."?

As for Lisbeth falling for Kirito. Yes, she became attracted to him, but this stuff happens often enough. That doesn't necessarily mean that something deeper is going on. A crush does not automatically mean love is happening. The latter takes time.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I still don't understand. Won't the story's "Real Plot" be just like this? You know, since SAO's premise is "Thousands of people trapped in a game and how they cope with it."?

I think, to some, the only plot they're interested in is that which directly relates and unambiguously contributes to clearing the game and getting out of their situation, despite the fact that the episodes thus far have all been dealing with "how to live in this world now that we're here" (so, the opposite). So they are basically considering anything else like "filler episodes" that won't matter in the long run (because, ostensibly, they and the various characters contained within "don't matter", or at least it wasn't important to see them be introduced in this way), and even are just "delaying" their getting out of game (or the story focusing on that aspect).

I personally don't agree with that view, as I too like the presentation style and think the vignette nature of the show thus far is pretty poignant... but that seems to be the major point of contention.

(That aside, based on the way the episode ending, I think we are heading in that plot now anyway.)

[Lycodrake]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think, to some, the only plot they're interested in is that which directly relates and unambiguously contributes to clearing the game and getting out of their situation, despite the fact that the episodes thus far have all been dealing with "how to live in this world now that we're here" (so, the opposite). So they are basically considering anything else like "filler episodes" that won't matter in the long run (because, ostensibly, they and the various characters contained within "don't matter", or at least it wasn't important to see them be introduced in this way), and even are just "delaying" their getting out of game (or the story focusing on that aspect).

I personally don't agree with that view, as I too like the presentation style and think the vignette nature of the show thus far is pretty poignant... but that seems to be the major point of contention.

I have to agree with you here. I honestly don't mind the "vignette nature", as you put it, and enjoy the series for what it is, not how I think it should be.

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

A few technical questions...Dark Repulser is not registered in the craftbook but still has a +0 next to it, unlike Kirito's previous sword, the Elucidator. Why didn't it have an upgrade rank? I also don't see the point in using his new sword, since his old one had better stats savefor 4 STR. Then there's the material used...Liz said only a craftsman can extract it, but Kirito had already dug it up by the time she was awake.

You'll note he stores 'her' sword while keeping his old one. Most likely he's upgraded the hell out of his current sword, and her's will not be better until he can grind some materials for various upgrades. Ultimately I would expect the new sword to be more powerful, but not until it's been upgraded. Kirito may be visiting Liz every few days for the next several weeks with bags of upgrade materials to make the new sword strong enough to use.

Just because she said she had to be there, doesn't mean she 'had' to be there. Folks have already addressed this from the LN perspective, but lots of MMO player's get some rather silly notions about increasing drop rates.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I still don't understand. Won't the story's "Real Plot" be just like this? You know, since SAO's premise is "Thousands of people trapped in a game and how they cope with it."?

As for Lisbeth falling for Kirito. Yes, she became attracted to him, but this stuff happens often enough. That doesn't necessarily mean that something deeper is going on. A crush does not automatically mean love is happening. The latter takes time.

Since pretty much all of ep3 > 7 have been just like this, you're probably correct.

And it's possible Liz really did fall for Kirito because of the whole suspension bridge effect. What's more important is that she realizes Asuna has already fallen for Kirito and steps aside, and that Kirito realizes Liz has feelings for him and reacts properly.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think, to some, the only plot they're interested in is that which directly relates and unambiguously contributes to clearing the game and getting out of their situation, despite the fact that the episodes thus far have all been dealing with "how to live in this world now that we're here" (so, the opposite). So they are basically considering anything else like "filler episodes" that won't matter in the long run (because, ostensibly, they and the various characters contained within "don't matter", or at least it wasn't important to see them be introduced in this way), and even are just "delaying" their getting out of game (or the story focusing on that aspect).

I think this episode marks the fist time our MC has actually talked about beating the game, right?

[Iron Maw]

Uggggh @ that CG Dragon, in fact the whole fight was pretty lackluster since consisted of 90% stills. Bleh

Aside from that, not bad episode. I liked Lizbeth/bet quite a bit, moreso at beginning then before she randomly decided to fall for Kirito since having a platonic relationship with at least one female character is bad thing for whatever reason. If the show wasn't so intent sledge hamming KiritoxAsuna, I would pretty much root for her and Kirito despite fairly forced way she fell for him. Now I wonder why Kirito wanted a sword with same strength as his old one rather than one stronger...

The show still suffers from the general issues that plague the series from episode 2 onwards (awkward writing, disjointed timeskips etc) so there no real point in repeating that. Kirito testing her sword without asking her or not offering compensation felt rather out of character. I also don't see why he needed climb the belltower to find her when he has a tracking skill, not to mention she's likely on his friends list. It's pretty bad sign when a show forgets it's own mechanics not introduced too long ago.

Overall pretty pleasant this week. 7/10

Originally Posted by Dengar

As for Lisbeth falling for Kirito. Yes, she became attracted to him, but this stuff happens often enough. That doesn't necessarily mean that something deeper is going on. A crush does not automatically mean love is happening. The latter takes time.

lol are you kidding me? Every semi-important female character wants him, no reason for her not to either. Subtlely isn't this show strong point, plus Kirito seemed like he noticed her feelings himself.

[n120cky]

Kirito should hit the Dark Repulser with Elucidator.

I wonder how they land after being flown by the dragon.

[Starlightz]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

Kirito testing her sword without asking her or not offering compensation felt rather out of character. I also don't see why he needed climb the belltower to find her when he has a tracking skill, not to mention she's likely on his friends list. It's pretty bad sign when a show forgets it's own mechanics not introduced too long ago. It's pretty bad sign when a show forgets it's own mechanics not introduced too long ago.

Did we watch the same episode? In my sub Kirito definitely asked "May I test it a little?", then wait long enough for Liz to know what he was going to do and give a response before breaking her sword.
Moreover, he has a tracking skill, but scanning might have been better (assume these two are different skills). There are a lot of obstacles (buildings, tree, etc.) in town, so I guess using scanning from ground won't be as effective as doing it from above-down. Kirito said he went up to the bell tower to scan the whole town for her, after all. I don't know why "she's likely on his friends list" either, seeing how long it takes for Asuna to be there...

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Starlightz

Did we watch the same episode? In my sub Kirito definitely asked "May I test it a little?", then wait long enough for Liz to know what he was going to do and give a response before breaking her sword.
Moreover, he has a tracking skill, but there are a lot of obstacles (buildings, tree, etc.) in town, so I assume it won't be as effective as doing it from above. Kirito said he went up to the bell tower to use tracking skill to scan the whole town for her, after all. I don't know why "she's likely on his friends list" either, seeing how long it takes for Asuna to be there...

The was a really short wait to me, but my point is that Liz hadn't consented. It was pretty self-centered thing for him to do normally. He may be loner, but he's not usually inconsiderate. He's lucky Liz cared more about him insulting her skill than the damage.

As for the tracking, obstacles didn't seem to hinder him when he used to find Saichi who was hiding under a bridge at night.

Your right about the friends list, but he could have at least asked Asuna.

[Clarste]

Spoiler for Comparison to the novel for this episode:

For reference, the anime omitted the line where Kirito offered to pay for the broken sword but she refused because she cared more about her damaged pride than the cost of the sword.

[Iron Maw]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Spoiler for Comparison to the novel for this episode:

For reference, the anime omitted the line where Kirito offered to pay for the broken sword but she refused because she cared more about her damaged pride than the cost of the sword.

Spoiler for reply to novel comparison:

Yeah, that sounds more like him at least.

[Anh_Minh]

Spoiler for Comparison to the novel for this episode:

He was also really surprised Liz's sword broke. Even if it wasn't as good as Elucidator, the fact it was the sword being swung should have given it an advantage.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Clarste

Spoiler for Comparison to the novel for this episode:

For reference, the anime omitted the line where Kirito offered to pay for the broken sword but she refused because she cared more about her damaged pride than the cost of the sword.

Spoiler for reply to novel comparison:

That definitely shouldn't have been omitted then, because before I read this I considered Kirito not offering to pay for the broken sword to be the most OoC moment in the entire episode.

I really liked this episode, but a large part of that was getting to see some actual action scenes for a change. While I respect how Iron Maw found it to be a bit lackluster, I myself found the whole fight with the dragon pretty exciting and compelling (granted, though, that a lot of that was due to the breathtaking "sky of sunlight" scene they had while Kirito and Liz were in mid-air together).

And Liz was a nice character. She struck me as being cute like Silica, but having a bit more edge and spunk to her. I have to admit that if I was Kirito I'd be very tempted to pick Liz over Asuna as great as Asuna is.


As for Kirito being a Marty Stu... Yes, in a way, he is. But I think that's the whole point with his character. I think he's designed to be the very exemplar of what the modern otaku wants to be (incidentally, I'm now starting to get a clearer idea of why SAO is as popular as it is).

He's a loner that tightly guards his independence, but he has admirable (and at times amazing) empathy for others.

He's caring, but he says more with his actions than with his words. His words are chosen carefully, and hence they usually have some weight to them.

He doesn't lose sight of "the mission" (i.e. clear the game), but he also takes time to appreciate the finer things in life (in SAO).

He's strong, swift, and effective, but he's not a showboat. He's confident, but not cocky.

He attracts the ladies and legitimately wins them over due to his positive personality traits, but he's not afraid or too shy to clearly and fairly speak his mind to them (this particular trait of Kirito's I think is honestly under-appreciated).

He has just the right amount of angst. Not so little that he lacks character or seems impossible to accept in a setting like this, but not so much that he makes you think of guys like Guilty Crown's Shu or Mirai Nikki's Yuki.

And yes, he's very good at what he does and he has plenty of talent and skill.

In short, he's Chuck Norris. Or Optimus Prime. Or Superman. Or Batman. He's that sort of character, and that's the whole idea with him I think. He's meant to be awesome and cool and the ultimate "good guy".

I honestly kind of like it - Instead of being another pure stand-in character for otakus (we see these all the time in harem shows), he's rather the person that the otaku would want to be.

Is he a wish-fulfillment character? Sure, totally. Just like Chuck Norris, Optimus Prime, Superman, and Batman are. Those sorts of characters can say a lot about a culture or a subculture, and that's much of what's interesting about them. These sorts of characters tend to represent the very best/most desirable in what we see in ourselves, and so they can speak to our hopes and dreams and imaginations in ways that most other characters can't.


That being said, to make Kirito work, Asuna is going to need to be very strong. The danger with a character like Kirito is that they can make other characters seem useless by comparison, and I'll admit that there's a slight touch of that in these "Girls of the week" episodes. I'm hoping that the episode will come where Kirito truly needs Asuna to bail him out, where "The Big Damn Hero" needs to be saved himself for a change. You need that at least once or twice to humanize "The Big Damn Hero", imo.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

As for Kirito being a Marty Stu... Yes, in a way, he is. But I think that's the whole point with his character.

[...]

He has just the right amount of angst. Not so little that he lacks character or seems impossible to accept in a setting like this, but not so much that he makes you think of guys like Guilty Crown's Shu or Mirai Nikki's Yuki.

And yes, he's very good at what he does and he has plenty of talent and skill.

In short, he's Chuck Norris. Or Optimus Prime. Or Superman. Or Batman. He's that sort of character, and that's the whole idea with him I think. He's meant to be awesome and cool and the ultimate "good guy".

I think this is where people are having problems with the Marty Stu argument. "Mary Sue" originally referred to a type of character that plagued Star Trek fanfic -- she'd come on the Enterprise and solve problems that stump Spock and Scotty, wow Kirk with her bravery, beat Sulu in a fencing competition, etc. That isn't Kirito -- his comrades consider him a great fighter, but they question his decisions, in particular his insistence on being a solo player, and sometimes he screws up royally. That's not Mary Sue; that's Kirk.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

I think this is where people are having problems with the Marty Stu argument. "Mary Sue" originally referred to a type of character that plagued Star Trek fanfic -- she'd come on the Enterprise and solve problems that stump Spock and Scotty, wow Kirk with her bravery, beat Sulu in a fencing competition, etc. That isn't Kirito -- his comrades consider him a great fighter, but they question his decisions, in particular his insistence on being a solo player, and sometimes he screws up royally. That's not Mary Sue; that's Kirk.

Well, the term "Marty Stu" certainly has a strong negative connotation. But my point was mostly directed to those accusing him of being a Marty Stu, which is why I didn't shy away from the term.

My point to them is "You're right about how Kirito is just an all-around great guy, who's "flaws" are of the sympathetic sort that just enrich his character, and that he doesn't have some tragic flaw that truly undermines him a lot or makes him less likeable. And that's the point. He's a hero, a real hero. And I can see how he's probably designed to be the guy that the modern otaku would want to be."

I honestly haven't seen many anime characters like Kirito (which is partly why I now find him very interesting), but western entertainment has many of them. There's the four I mentioned, as well as Kirk like you mentioned.

Yeah, he's more Kirk than Mary Sue, definitely.

But I want to differentiate Kirito from harem leads that attract lots of girls for no apparent reason, because I think he's very different from them (and frankly, I think he deserves better than to be equated with them). Kirito is not a loser that girls inexplicably fall for. Quite the contrary - He's a winner, and a hero with a good personality, and that's why girls legitimately fall for him. Let's be honest here - He seriously helped out Silica, he had been seriously helping out Sachi, and he really impressed Liz. And it's not hard to see why.

That's not to say I want this "Kirito saves the girl of the week" thing to be your typical SAO episode, but it's fine for these side-arc episodes I think. And I think we might as well embrace the fact that Kirito is a Kirk - a cool hero. That character type is definitely not without its charms and appeals, at least in my opinion. I'd take him over your standard harem anime lead any day.

[Klashikari]

A reminder: Spoilers in a large sense isn't only defined as disclosed information of future whatsoever. Hints and references are also part of it.
Again, please do not make any hints and what's the purpose of a specific item/weapon/character that the anime has brushed out. Unlike a conventional linear story, most if not ALL SAO side stories were written after the first arc of the franchise, therefore involve details and knowledge from the end of the first arc, which certainly explains why the studio has altered few details to leave things less "obvious". So please consider these points and use the appropriate thread for that.

Failure to do so will be considered just like a regular spoiler, leading to the 1 day ban.

[~Yami~]

well, I don't really like noisy girl like Lizbeth but during this episode, finally I can see her appeal...
at least, Kirito isn't a dumb guy who doesn't realize girls feelings around him...
when Asuna appeared, I already hear something cracked... hahaha... what a painful episode
I'm glad Lizbeth is mature enough to face reality.... just like what Silica did

oh! I almost think Kirito give that earring to Asuna (and almost rage because it's not get animated) but thanks for the explanation.... so Asuna wear her own earring to impress Kirito and her fans in SAO and animesuki thread... hehehe *blushing*

now, are we done with side stories??? I'm ready to follow main story now!

[Dengar]

What you're describing sounds an awful lot like The Wesley.

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

lol are you kidding me? Every semi-important female character wants him, no reason for her not to either. Subtlely isn't this show strong point, plus Kirito seemed like he noticed her feelings himself.

So girls are crushing on him, big deal. That still doesn't mean love is going on. There just isn't enough time for that. The only one who actually has enough time to develop something like that is Asuna.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Kamui04

Actually coffee beans

Originally Posted by Lycodrake

I knew it was something of that sort...I mix chocolate and coffee so often that I trip up on that. Thanks for the save, however odd it might be. XD

Coffee beans eaten by a certain civet cat and processed in its digestive tract, then coming out together with poop. And it's expensive too!

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

~ snipped ~

No point tuning in to a speculation that can be written off with the author's own words.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Enjoyable episode, even if it was another "side arc online" (lol). But as a seiyuu fan, it was Lisbeth's voice that really impressed me. Just awkward enough, with some real flash and energy, within the limits of the character. I should have realized who it was, but didn't until the end credits: one of my favorites, Takagaki Ayahi (Noe in True Tears, Feldt Grace in Chrome-Shelled Regios, Wakana in Tari Tari, and a member of Sphere).

From a radio show I heard (in which she's one of 'personalities'), Takagaki screws up a lot in some anime. But yeah, she's a really hard worker (a ganbariya, I'd say) and thus one of my favorites too.


Quite honestly, I like how the side stories add to the dimension of the series. Like what someone has said, one thing the side stories do is to show how the rest of the players are actually coping in this game over time. Of course it develops Kirito to some extent, but in that respect, it's more in the capacity of 'connecting the dots' more than a natural planned development since the stories were written after the main arc. And this side story is a little different since it touches a little more on a character who chose not to participate frequently in adventures but live her time as a service provider in the game while waiting for it to be cleared, and searching for a meaning to continue living in this 'fake' world (playing the game in a more passive way rather than active). This is quite different from previous stories where the side characters that were central to each story were mostly actively 'adventuring'. And in the end, the emphasis on the 'responsibility' of the clearing team and the importance of what they are doing, and that there are people like Liz, waiting, believing and hoping that they will end this nightmare, is a nice touch. And it's truly one of my favorites. (Side note: Liz's face was priceless when her prided sword broke. ) Oh yes, there were several stuff/infomation that were cut out in the show so that the audience won't be spoiled (so people shouldn't even start bordering on hinting, I guess , though I myself have forgotten most of the stuff except for one or two thing, unlike so many hardcore readers ). Up till now, quite honestly, I'm still of the opinion it's better to do it like the novels and have these episodes as OVAs or interlude episodes (it doesn't feel right to have these 'fleshing out' in a linear, chronological order, and cut things for that).

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

The was a really short wait to me, but my point is that Liz hadn't consented. It was pretty self-centered thing for him to do normally. He may be loner, but he's not usually inconsiderate. He's lucky Liz cared more about him insulting her skill than the damage.

As for the tracking, obstacles didn't seem to hinder him when he used to find Saichi who was hiding under a bridge at night.

Your right about the friends list, but he could have at least asked Asuna.

He could have asked Asuna, but if you think about it for a bit, Kirito already realized that Liz had feelings for him and stepped aside when Asuna came. If he had asked Asuna to track Liz in her friend list she may have offered to come too and be a third wheel in the conversation and even if he asked her to stay at the shop it would have left Asuna with lingering thoughts.

[MrPopo]

Originally Posted by Iron Maw

The was a really short wait to me, but my point is that Liz hadn't consented. It was pretty self-centered thing for him to do normally. He may be loner, but he's not usually inconsiderate. He's lucky Liz cared more about him insulting her skill than the damage.

Originally Posted by Clarste

Spoiler for Comparison to the novel for this episode:

For reference, the anime omitted the line where Kirito offered to pay for the broken sword but she refused because she cared more about her damaged pride than the cost of the sword.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Spoiler for reply to novel comparison:

That definitely shouldn't have been omitted then, because before I read this I considered Kirito not offering to pay for the broken sword to be the most OoC moment in the entire episode.

Spoiler for reply to novel comparison:

Couldn't these simply be attributed to his social awkwardness? It kind of bugs me how moments like these are labelled OoC simply because this MMO-playing teenage boy is not conforming to proper social etiquette. If anything, these chinks add to Kirito's character. Unfortunately the LN decided to address this, so this interpretation is out the window.