AnimeSuki Forums

Zakoo · 2012-09-19, 12:15

There's something major inside this problem and it's that the border between child and adult isn't defined nor in the spirit of people nor in the whole world. It is something that was arbitrary choosen by people, and as all arbitrary convention it can always be argued, why 18 years old and not 16 to vote? the same goes for the passage to adultehood, whether it is socially or sexually.

Even more on those time, Willx you said that because we live longer, it is normal for us to marry, have child etc older, but those our actual society goes really this way?
Now it's not really weird to see a young girl in her twelves with make up, dressed with frilly frilly dress or going to the beautician with her mother, such things were inacceptable there's 40 years ago, what about now? Ads, magazine, game, everything is more open about sexuality, that's how actual society is.

Actually I wonder if the only way to consider a child as an adult isn't simply to know if the child is able to procreate.
But at the same time, as we all know from homosexuality and everything, societal sexuality and biological sexuality are two different things. Maybe things are fine the way they are now.

And anyway as for this thread, instead or protecting virtual children, they should maybe try to protect real children.

flying ^ · 2012-09-19, 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Since we're on the topic of adult entertainment...

Pressure grows in Japan for stronger laws against child pornography

now this area is where japan is 'exceptional' in the world like U.S. is exceptional when it comes to guns

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakubeX2

Does a photograph of a 9 year old girl in a plain one-piece swimsuit sitting down with legs extended constitute Child Pornography in the west ? Because this is as far as some junior idol agencies are willing to go for the models under them in their publications and videos.

they're going single digits now?

... and Fuji thought 10 was the lowest they can go
tsk tsk tsk

anyways.....
here's a Fuji News Exclusive

... 3 sec. intro says it all

Archon_Wing · 2012-09-19, 12:40

Oh look, a witch hunt again under the guise of a just cause to enforce moral BS.

Yes, child abuse and exploitation is going to need to be stopped and the perpetrators stopped from harming children. But when it comes to 2-ds? That's going to turn into a thought crime.

flying ^ · 2012-09-19, 12:41

on a more serious note...

this report from NTV News Zero (midnight news) looks deadly serious business.
it further sheds light (behind the scenes) on what NTV considers 'almost porn' but still wank material niche.

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/SsUN9fngvJg

Nightbat® · 2012-09-19, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zakoo

what about now? Ads, magazine, game, everything is more open about sexuality.

Heh, which reminds me that noone has any idea what goes on behind those glamorous fashion shots

At least the playmates are 18 years and older, unlike having 15 year old girls hooked on coke and diet pills strutting the catwalk for whatever designershow

KitsuneShi · 2012-09-19, 16:10

I have to agree with SeijiSensei. The prevailing consideration shouldn't be how to remove child pornography with laws, but how we can properly handle it. When a kid is playing with potentially dangerous toy, would you forcibly take the toy away? or would you teach the child why not to play with the toy? Presiding ethics and morality of the individual remains regardless of whether their enjoyment was taken, in the end, all the laws are doing is pissing someone off rather than improving society.
Tendencies to be attracted to a younger audience sexually is something of a psychological disposition, be it deriving from a genetical deviation , cumulative experience that happened to lean towards a interest or inclination towards younger people, or ect. Binding more chains won't solve things. Also its precisely because that this form of child pornography does not depict real children that its a "perfect" substitute and way of coping for those who hold attractions towards younger girls. If this form of media results in a real person assaulting a young girl, its not the media at fault, but the mentality of the person to do such a thing. This isn't a moral class, nor am I proposing such, however I would rather hope that the standard of the common masses in cognitive awareness, capability of adequate understanding of philosophy, and respect all improve as mankind continues. As of now, its sickening. Besides, porn that doesn't depict reality shouldn't even be the main concern for the general public.

Way I see it is: Flexibility for the capable, condemnation for the incompetent. Or at least an attempt at reform, if that's possible for a bigot.

Edit: My point idea still stands regardless of whether its anime in question, or real people. The case for me here is whether people would actually consider doing things like rape. In the case of minors, if its mutual and they acknowledged filming it, then that's that.For the people who buy these things, the Way I see it summarizes my view.

sudolicious · 2012-09-19, 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Oh look, a witch hunt again under the guise of a just cause to enforce moral BS.

“The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as government is perceived as working for the benefit of children, the people happily will endure almost any curtailment of liberty." - Adolf Hitler

As long as this doesn't affect my precious junior idols I don't really care though

E: Well, fuck, just watched the 2 videos... Japan, what are you doing, don't bother with this harmless stuff.

Sumeragi · 2012-09-19, 17:26

I believe we can split this issue into three parts, particularly when it comes to Japan:

1. Actual child pornography (minors actually engaging in sexual activities and sold on a commercial basis)
2. Minor Idols (gravure idols, etc)
3. Fictional representations (drawings, CGs, etc)

From what I understand, the case in Kyoto was Point 1.

KitsuneShi · 2012-09-19, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I believe we can split this issue into three parts, particularly when it comes to Japan:

1. Actual child pornography (minors actually engaging in sexual activities and sold on a commercial basis)
2. Minor Idols (gravure idols, etc)
3. Fictional representations (drawings, CGs, etc)

From what I understand, the case in Kyoto was Point 1.

Oh. Excuse my ignorance then, I presumed too quick because I didn't expect this out of Japan. Lol. Well either way, my edit for earlier is my reply on this.

willx · 2012-09-19, 19:58

Apparently someone disagrees with me about the factual age of consent in Canada .. Or that historically young marriage was the norm all over the world!?

Anyways, one issue re: "taking away dangerous toys" example.. The same could be said about gun control. Sensitive topic, but statistics show that it does reduce violent crimes.. So yes, we do take away "dangerous" toys

SeijiSensei · 2012-09-19, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightbat®

At least the playmates are 18 years and older, unlike having 15 year old girls hooked on coke and diet pills strutting the catwalk for whatever designer show

Fifteen is too old these days. Thirteen seems to be optimal age when it comes to recruiting models.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/op...n-siberia.html

"I like to start working at thirteen because it is easier to command them. At sixteen they have a mind of their own."

ganbaru · 2012-09-19, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

"I like to start working at thirteen because it is easier to command them. At sixteen they have a mind of their own."

Where are the hardcore feminists when we need them. We should suggest them to use sex dolls next: never age, never talk back, ridiculous body without need of surgery, in short the best model for such neanderthal.

flying ^ · 2012-09-19, 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

Anyways, one issue re: "taking away dangerous toys" example.. The same could be said about gun control. Sensitive topic, but statistics show that it does reduce violent crimes.. So yes, we do take away "dangerous" toys

that may be true somewhere in... in EU

but USA (guns) and Japan (cp's)?
dare take away their respective 'toys' and you'll see unintended consequences... and 'consequences will never be the same'

also japan has the reputation for having fewer crimes...
and think how much damage that will be for japans' national psyche if NPA one day decides to round up and detain thousands for possessing something as simple as TLRD in paperback or the doujin you found online (NPA computer forensics will log overtime and earn & make a killin' here!

)

and speaking of the world's 'exceptional' countries...

Quote:

Originally Posted by flying ^

now this area (CP) is where japan is 'exceptional' in the world like U.S. is exceptional when it comes to guns

Vexx · 2012-09-19, 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Fifteen is too old these days. Thirteen seems to be optimal age when it comes to recruiting models.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/op...n-siberia.html

"I like to start working at thirteen because it is easier to command them. At sixteen they have a mind of their own."

Can we hold him down and slap the shit out of him? I'm sure it'd be easier to command him then... :P

ganbaru · 2012-09-19, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Can we hold him down and slap the shit out of him? I'm sure it'd be easier to command him then... :P

Given than he is past 16 and got a mind of hin own , the process will most likely have to be administred everyday. Not than I have a problem with that.

Metaler · 2012-09-19, 22:37

...And yet no one in that country asks the million dollar question: "WHY does Japan have such a huge problem with sexual crimes?"

As usual, those idiots decide to sweep everything under the rug.

Imagine you have a house full of cockroaches. Obviously, roaches are quite the annoyance, so you have to take care of them somehow. There's a fuckton of them, literally covering almost the entire floor. In this situation, there are two things you can do:
1) Attempt to formulate a plan to eliminate the roaches. This may take time and effort, but the long-term advantages are excellent. It could take months, but you WILL have a house with no roaches. You'll solve the problem while keeping the integrity of the house. However, you can also:

2) Bomb the whole place to hell. You will completely destroy the house, leaving only a giant pile of rubble and burned roaches. You're going to have to find a new place to live, and you have eliminated the possibility of someone else living in this house in the future. But at least you took care of the cockroaches.

Japan is going for the second option. They don't ask themselves "why?" so that they can find a solution from the answer. "Okay so a lot of people around here like lolicon. That's pretty bad, I guess... Maybe if I find out why they like it so much I can find a solution. But, this will require thinking and planning from my part. Ugh, no fucking way. I don't want to think. It's too much work. I know! I'll just ban lolicon altogether. There, problem solved! Those people will probably look for something else to satisfy themselves, but hey, no more lolicon!"

Laws are an easy way for the government to swap a few flies... But it also decreases the size of the already tiny little bubble we live in. And when the bubble starts to get too tight it's going to burst, and everything the State attempted to do will go down the shitter. In fact, this is one of the reasons why I believe Anarchy is mankind's uuh... "final destiny" you could say. More and more laws are passed every year which decrease the size of our bubble. I wonder how long it'll take before everyone completely loses it?

Sumeragi · 2012-09-19, 23:18

I'll ask the counterquestion: "DOES Japan have SUCH A HUGE problem with sexual crimes?"

NoemiChan · 2012-09-19, 23:27

This is really giving me headaches, lets just...

Blame the government for their weak and ineffective enforcement of the laws.

Blame the makers for producing such porns.

Blame the people who patronizes them...

...everyone is at fault.... period...

Vexx · 2012-09-19, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I'll ask the counterquestion: "DOES Japan have SUCH A HUGE problem with sexual crimes?"

And the answer is "no" but you have to stop reading Sankaku and sensationalistic news that repeats the same story multiple times so it sounds worse than it is.

Sumeragi · 2012-09-19, 23:32

Exactly. While there is a huge pornography industry, ultimately sexual crimes are far below the level of pretty much any other modern industrialized country, despite the lack of man specific laws. To me this entire thread is in itself is absurd: It's exploring a relatively small issue which looks big because Japan in general is much "cleaner" than other nations.

2012-09-19, 16:10	Link #26
KitsuneShi Lone Hoshi Join Date: Sep 2012 Age: 28	I have to agree with SeijiSensei. The prevailing consideration shouldn't be how to remove child pornography with laws, but how we can properly handle it. When a kid is playing with potentially dangerous toy, would you forcibly take the toy away? or would you teach the child why not to play with the toy? Presiding ethics and morality of the individual remains regardless of whether their enjoyment was taken, in the end, all the laws are doing is pissing someone off rather than improving society. Tendencies to be attracted to a younger audience sexually is something of a psychological disposition, be it deriving from a genetical deviation , cumulative experience that happened to lean towards a interest or inclination towards younger people, or ect. Binding more chains won't solve things. Also its precisely because that this form of child pornography does not depict real children that its a "perfect" substitute and way of coping for those who hold attractions towards younger girls. If this form of media results in a real person assaulting a young girl, its not the media at fault, but the mentality of the person to do such a thing. This isn't a moral class, nor am I proposing such, however I would rather hope that the standard of the common masses in cognitive awareness, capability of adequate understanding of philosophy, and respect all improve as mankind continues. As of now, its sickening. Besides, porn that doesn't depict reality shouldn't even be the main concern for the general public. Way I see it is: Flexibility for the capable, condemnation for the incompetent. Or at least an attempt at reform, if that's possible for a bigot. Edit: My point idea still stands regardless of whether its anime in question, or real people. The case for me here is whether people would actually consider doing things like rape. In the case of minors, if its mutual and they acknowledged filming it, then that's that.For the people who buy these things, the Way I see it summarizes my view. __________________ Special Thank you to thundrakkon, a great graphic designer. Last edited by KitsuneShi; 2012-09-19 at 17:38.

2012-09-19, 19:58	Link #30
willx Nyaaan~~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	Apparently someone disagrees with me about the factual age of consent in Canada .. Or that historically young marriage was the norm all over the world!? Anyways, one issue re: "taking away dangerous toys" example.. The same could be said about gun control. Sensitive topic, but statistics show that it does reduce violent crimes.. So yes, we do take away "dangerous" toys Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-09-19 at 21:08.

2012-09-19, 22:37	Link #36
Metaler Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Brazil - São Paulo Age: 31	...And yet no one in that country asks the million dollar question: "WHY does Japan have such a huge problem with sexual crimes?" As usual, those idiots decide to sweep everything under the rug. Imagine you have a house full of cockroaches. Obviously, roaches are quite the annoyance, so you have to take care of them somehow. There's a fuckton of them, literally covering almost the entire floor. In this situation, there are two things you can do: 1) Attempt to formulate a plan to eliminate the roaches. This may take time and effort, but the long-term advantages are excellent. It could take months, but you WILL have a house with no roaches. You'll solve the problem while keeping the integrity of the house. However, you can also: 2) Bomb the whole place to hell. You will completely destroy the house, leaving only a giant pile of rubble and burned roaches. You're going to have to find a new place to live, and you have eliminated the possibility of someone else living in this house in the future. But at least you took care of the cockroaches. Japan is going for the second option. They don't ask themselves "why?" so that they can find a solution from the answer. "Okay so a lot of people around here like lolicon. That's pretty bad, I guess... Maybe if I find out why they like it so much I can find a solution. But, this will require thinking and planning from my part. Ugh, no fucking way. I don't want to think. It's too much work. I know! I'll just ban lolicon altogether. There, problem solved! Those people will probably look for something else to satisfy themselves, but hey, no more lolicon!" Laws are an easy way for the government to swap a few flies... But it also decreases the size of the already tiny little bubble we live in. And when the bubble starts to get too tight it's going to burst, and everything the State attempted to do will go down the shitter. In fact, this is one of the reasons why I believe Anarchy is mankind's uuh... "final destiny" you could say. More and more laws are passed every year which decrease the size of our bubble. I wonder how long it'll take before everyone completely loses it? Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-09-20 at 00:09.

2012-09-19, 12:15	Link #21
Zakoo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Gensokyo	There's something major inside this problem and it's that the border between child and adult isn't defined nor in the spirit of people nor in the whole world. It is something that was arbitrary choosen by people, and as all arbitrary convention it can always be argued, why 18 years old and not 16 to vote? the same goes for the passage to adultehood, whether it is socially or sexually. Even more on those time, Willx you said that because we live longer, it is normal for us to marry, have child etc older, but those our actual society goes really this way? Now it's not really weird to see a young girl in her twelves with make up, dressed with frilly frilly dress or going to the beautician with her mother, such things were inacceptable there's 40 years ago, what about now? Ads, magazine, game, everything is more open about sexuality, that's how actual society is. Actually I wonder if the only way to consider a child as an adult isn't simply to know if the child is able to procreate. But at the same time, as we all know from homosexuality and everything, societal sexuality and biological sexuality are two different things. Maybe things are fine the way they are now. And anyway as for this thread, instead or protecting virtual children, they should maybe try to protect real children.

2012-09-19, 12:41	Link #24
flying ^ Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010	on a more serious note... this report from NTV News Zero (midnight news) looks deadly serious business. it further sheds light (behind the scenes) on what NTV considers 'almost porn' but still wank material niche. http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/SsUN9fngvJg

2012-09-19, 17:26	Link #28
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	I believe we can split this issue into three parts, particularly when it comes to Japan: 1. Actual child pornography (minors actually engaging in sexual activities and sold on a commercial basis) 2. Minor Idols (gravure idols, etc) 3. Fictional representations (drawings, CGs, etc) From what I understand, the case in Kyoto was Point 1.

2012-09-19, 23:18	Link #37
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	I'll ask the counterquestion: "DOES Japan have SUCH A HUGE problem with sexual crimes?"

2012-09-19, 23:27	Link #38
NoemiChan Banned Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 36	This is really giving me headaches, lets just... Blame the government for their weak and ineffective enforcement of the laws. Blame the makers for producing such porns. Blame the people who patronizes them... ...everyone is at fault.... period...

2012-09-19, 23:32	Link #40
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	Exactly. While there is a huge pornography industry, ultimately sexual crimes are far below the level of pretty much any other modern industrialized country, despite the lack of man specific laws. To me this entire thread is in itself is absurd: It's exploring a relatively small issue which looks big because Japan in general is much "cleaner" than other nations.