News Stories

[Ithekro]

If there is one country on the planet that has been spending its defense money on defense, is it Japan. Country has probably the most advanced anti-air systems and anti-submarines systems on the planet. Their navy is designed to defend the islands these days rather than power project. They leave te power projection and offensive actions to the Americans.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Solace

In issues like this, belief is useless without evidence. Japan is not militarizing, and even if certain elements in Japan want to, most of its people have no interest going to war. They don't really need to arm up, either. If Japan is attacked the US will immediately go to war.

That's why there's all this saber rattling. The point is to stir up nationalism and other "passionate" emotions in the name of politics while not being serious enough to actually start a conflict. Japan is an easy target because of cultural and economic reasons.

Why do it? For the same reason the US bashes China, Russia bashes the US, etc. It's always easier to play the innocent victim in politics.

not cultural or economic, Historical.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

not cultural or economic, Historical.

Yeah, I know WW2 happened. But the war is an excuse at this point, and all that's left is a cultural grudge and economic/political bullshit.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Solace

Yeah, I know WW2 happened. But the war is an excuse at this point, and all that's left is a cultural grudge and economic/political bullshit.

Hence why I brought the analogy with Britain and Ireland from before the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. Similar kind of grudge was experienced for a long time there.

[Xellos-_^]

i don't get much news form the other side of the Atlantic much. But does GB does rerwrite the history and play down its role or the number of dead in the Irish potato famine? or does things that is certain to riles its neighbors?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i don't get much news form the other side of the Atlantic much. But does GB does rerwrite the history and play down its role or the number of dead in the Irish potato famine? or does things that is certain to riles its neighbors?

You think they didn't? That's standard procedure. Especially since famine deaths are hard to calculate and they hardly cared what peasants are dying from. Disputes of number of deaths is common in history, if not all the time. And as such it is hardly worth noting that one side would generate different numbers from the other.

Historians tend to go for ballpark figures between both sides. Not "Ireland's number is more accurate than the GB version".

It is not some grand insult if the numbers don't match up. Not unless you think Ireland had no incentive to inflate their own casualties for political gain. It happened; that doesn't mean the numbers are precise.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You think they didn't? That's standard procedure. Especially since famine deaths are hard to calculate and they hardly cared what peasants are dying from. Disputes of number of deaths is common in history, if not all the time. And as such it is hardly worth noting that one side would generate different numbers from the other.

Historians tend to go for ballpark figures between both sides. Not "Ireland's number is more accurate than the GB version".

It is not some grand insult if the numbers don't match up. Not unless you think Ireland had no incentive to inflate their own casualties for political gain. It happened; that doesn't mean the numbers are precise.

since i never had opportunity to study a GB history book i have absolutely no idea.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Hence why I brought the analogy with Britain and Ireland from before the 1998 Good Friday Agreement. Similar kind of grudge was experienced for a long time there.

And Iran with US. Things change pretty quickly with the new president and the nuclear deal.

I've seen the Irish people have more of a case during the Troubles considering how the strong reaction from London with a large deployment of troops could have been interpreted as a prelude to invasion. Boots on the ground in one case, none in the other; that's the difference. Even then, nothing happened.

There's more for Ireland to (economics) gain from cooperation with Britain. The PRC also played nice with Japan at one point in the past when it was competing with Taiwan to gain international recognition. Now, the PRC felt there's more to gain to misdirect the emotion of the public so it's easier to manage. A small faction in Japan also felt there's more to gain from increased tension. Ishihara tried to troll the Chinese pretty hard several years ago to stir up tensions, which the PRC also wants.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Blame the other parties for being absolutely crap then. It's like us in Canada voting Liberal for 69 years out of 100 in the 20th Century, sometimes with very long spells of Liberal dominance under a few men. The Tories are crap even though they are in power for the moment. Still nothing that warrants a return to militarism and colonization in Japan's case.

As of right now even I don't think Japan is militarizing. However, some of the current signs are alarming and can't be denied completely. Visiting Yasukuni is one thing, but the LDP's attempt to change the parts of the constitution gives us pause.

Originally Posted by Solace

In issues like this, belief is useless without evidence. Japan is not militarizing, and even if certain elements in Japan want to, most of its people have no interest going to war. They don't really need to arm up, either. If Japan is attacked the US will immediately go to war.

That's why there's all this saber rattling. The point is to stir up nationalism and other "passionate" emotions in the name of politics while not being serious enough to actually start a conflict. Japan is an easy target because of cultural and economic reasons.

Why do it? For the same reason the US bashes China, Russia bashes the US, etc. It's always easier to play the innocent victim in politics.

I don't disagree, most of the current events is to stir up nationalism, same with Korea and China.
My point was there are reasons to be concerned. While hey might not be militarizing right now, the current political trend is something that is not exactly direction towards peace.

[Ithekro]

The British Isles nations have their own ways to needle each other over their respective pasts.

There is a battleground in Scotland were many died. In one area there are lots of cairn stone to the men that died from all the various Scots clans as they were mass buried by tartans. No dogs allowed.

On the other side of the field is a Dog Walk. This is where the English soldiers were buried.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

As of right now even I don't think Japan is militarizing. However, some of the current signs are alarming and can't be denied completely. Visiting Yasukuni is one thing, but the LDP's attempt to change the parts of the constitution gives us pause.

I don't disagree, most of the current events is to stir up nationalism, same with Korea and China.
My point was there are reasons to be concerned. While hey might not be militarizing right now, the current political trend is something that is not exactly direction towards peace.

And why would militarising be anti-peace?

Japan officially doesn't have a military. South Korea does, and so does China. Do you think Japan can't have a military because they are lesser people to the other two nations? If they want to change their own constitution, that's their right.

Japan bringing back its army would only mean it finally got its right to self determination back. You can complain once it starts invading other people.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

And why would militarising be anti-peace?

Japan officially doesn't have a military. South Korea does, and so does China. Do you think Japan can't have a military because they are lesser people to the other two nations? If they want to change their own constitution, that's their right.

Japan bringing back its army would only mean it finally got its right to self determination back. You can complain once it starts invading other people.

have no problem with Japan having military. As a sovereign nation they have that right. But militarizing, while trying to reconnect their past is something that is troubling. It is not about just militarizing, it is the intend that is behind it.

And wtf is about this lesser people? Why would you write that down? Well good attempt on you for trying to make me look like a racist

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

And why would militarising be anti-peace?

Japan officially doesn't have a military. South Korea does, and so does China. Do you think Japan can't have a military because they are lesser people to the other two nations? If they want to change their own constitution, that's their right.

Japan bringing back its army would only mean it finally got its right to self determination back. You can complain once it starts invading other people.

Just correcting the detail about South Korea with 50 million people compared to 126 million in Japan.

Considering how Germany keeps becoming a bigger player inside NATO with well-equipped forces and very professional troops, I don't mind Japan expanding its role as long as they answer to the Diet like any professional force. This bit about the Bundeswehr's mission is something Japan can aspire to as a change in their constitution:

Today, after a ruling of the Federal Constitutional Court in 1994 the term "defense" has been defined to not only include protection of the borders of Germany, but also crisis reaction and conflict prevention, or more broadly as guarding the security of Germany anywhere in the world. According to the definition given by former Defense Minister Struck, it may be necessary to defend Germany even at the Hindu Kush. This requires the Bundeswehr to take part in operations outside of the borders of Germany, as part of NATO or the European Union and mandated by the UN.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

have no problem with Japan having military. As a sovereign nation they have that right. But militarizing, while trying to reconnect their past is something that is troubling. It is not about just militarizing, it is the intend that is behind it.

And wtf is about this lesser people? Why would you write that down? Well good attempt on you for trying to make me look like a racist

You want the Japanese to sever themselves from their past then? Why would you want to do that? Would you like me to demand that you sever yourself from your own people's past as well?

And as for intent... Why would the Japanese have more evil intent than the Chinese or Koreans? What is is exactly that made you think Japan have dark intentions, more so than the other two countries? That's why I am proposing that you consider the Japanese, a lessor people. Because "intent" is something you can only guess from the outside. And the only way you could single them out as having "dark intent" is if you consider them lesser than you.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You want the Japanese to sever themselves from their past then? Why would you want to do that? Would you like me to demand that you sever yourself from your own people's past as well?

Wow, way to twist my words around. You should fully know that when I am talking about the past it is the Japanese Empire that committed heinous act in Asia.

And as for intent... Why would the Japanese have more evil intent than the Chinese or Koreans? What is is exactly that made you think Japan have dark intentions, more so than the other two countries? That's why I am proposing that you consider the Japanese, a lessor people. Because "intent" is something you can only guess from the outside. And the only way you could single them out as having "dark intent" is if you consider them lesser than you.

Damn, good job on generalizing. So just because I don't like the current political trend in Japan, especailly the LDP, I think Japanese are lesser people. Well keep assuming that, props to you man. And you keep putting in your own in front of mine. Perhaps you want to write everything for me since you clearly understand me better than myself. Yeah, dark and evil intent, when did I ever said this? You know just because I disagree with the policy and politic, that doesn't mean I think it is evil.

And see, I used words like LDP and political, meaning I wasn't talking about Japan as whole, but rather its current political situation and regime.

[kuroishinigami]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

You want the Japanese to sever themselves from their past then? Why would you want to do that? Would you like me to demand that you sever yourself from your own people's past as well?

Uh, because said past involve invading other country? If you have a friend who used to be a drug addict or serial killer, wouldn't you be wary if he start to show signs of recconecting to their bad past like hanging out with his/her drug addict friend? If someone make a big mistake in the past, they do not become lesser because of it, but he/she is expected to sever himself from his past as to not repeat the same mistake.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

Uh, because said past involve invading other country? If you have a friend who used to be a drug addict or serial killer, wouldn't you be wary if he start to show signs of recconecting to their bad past like hanging out with his/her drug addict friend? If someone make a big mistake in the past, they do not become lesser because of it, but he/she is expected to sever himself from his past as to not repeat the same mistake.

I think his point is that there's a dark history in all of these nations. Japan did some horrible things, absolutely, but it's not as if they're the only one in history to do them to other peoples, just one of the most recent. So it often seems hypocritical. Sort of a "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones" kind of thing.

But for examples sake, I was quite surprised to learn that Mao is looked upon so well in China. The Western portrayal of him is one of a monster, who might have done some good in modernizing China (debatable) but cost the lives of millions during his rule. And of course, the west isn't one to talk, because they all have mud on their faces too. I especially love it when some journalist or politician starts making the rounds with digs at China (or Iran or other "easy" target), completely missing the ironies of things their own nations have been doing.

[kuroishinigami]

Originally Posted by Solace

I think his point is that there's a dark history in all of these nations. Japan did some horrible things, absolutely, but it's not as if they're the only one in history to do them to other peoples, just one of the most recent. So it often seems hypocritical. Sort of a "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones" kind of thing.

But for examples sake, I was quite surprised to learn that Mao is looked upon so well in China. The Western portrayal of him is one of a monster, who might have done some good in modernizing China (debatable) but cost the lives of millions during his rule. And of course, the west isn't one to talk, because they all have mud on their faces too. I especially love it when some journalist or politician starts making the rounds with digs at China (or Iran or other "easy" target), completely missing the ironies of things their own nations have been doing.

I agree completely, but people should understand too that China and South Korea has considerable reason to be wary of Japan's politic current trend(just like Japan and other China's neighbour has good reason of being wary of China's "current" militaristic trend). It's like seeing an old bully who live near you start to hang out with their bullies friend again. They might not plan to bully you again, but you can't help but worry if they do plan to do so.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

I agree completely, but people should understand too that China and South Korea has considerable reason to be wary of Japan's politic current trend(just like Japan and other China's neighbour has good reason of being wary of China's "current" militaristic trend). It's like seeing an old bully who live near you start to hang out with their bullies friend again. They might not plan to bully you again, but you can't help but worry if they do plan to do so.

But what could they do, realistically? China has modernized considerably, and is one of the manufacturing capitals of the world with a boatload of raw materials. They have a strong military, even if it's nowhere near as modern as the US, it's still well armed, well trained, and positively massive in terms of manpower.

There's also the US itself to be concerned with. Not only is the US an ally of Japan, but so are many other nations in the region. China is also one of the largest trade partners with the US. This means if Japan motions toward war they will be cut off by an immediate US and Chinese presence as well as losing the support of the two single largest economies on the planet.

This isn't including other nations like South Korea, India, Pakistan, Australia, Indonesia, Russia....you get the idea. A Japan with the ambitions of war is never going to happen again. Ever. Just like the old Allied factions are still watching Germany and Russia, the US, Russia, and Asia are always watching Japan.

This is why I shrug when someone makes a big deal out of the symbolism that stems from "diplomatic incidents". I also get why some nations feel there can never be enough apologizing, but frankly it stems from all the wrong reasons.

But fear? Many of these nations are losing their own grips. Worrying about the return of Axis powers is laughable when there are far bigger issues to tackle.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by kuroishinigami

I agree completely, but people should understand too that China and South Korea has considerable reason to be wary of Japan's politic current trend(just like Japan and other China's neighbour has good reason of being wary of China's "current" militaristic trend). It's like seeing an old bully who live near you start to hang out with their bullies friend again. They might not plan to bully you again, but you can't help but worry if they do plan to do so.

Do forgive my scepticism of the very idea that Japan would somehow try to create a new empire. They lost the last time they tried, and now in the modern day they have even less favourable conditions for conquest. Unless one considers Japan like Mad Dog Montezuma of Civilization games, they are delusional if they think Japan is somehow going to start WW3.

I repeat my point: Those who seriously consider the Imperial Japan rising again, can only consider Japan as either stupid or evil. Ether of witch requires that the person believing that the Japanese are a lessor people.