Gender Roles

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

But the requirement of lifestyle has gotten to the point where a family cannot survive without two (or more) incomes.

Since when eating three times a day has become a "requirement of lifestyle"

[Paranoid Android]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Since when eating three times a day has become a "requirement of lifestyle"

I can't understand what this is trying to imply. Is that a honest question or a rhetorical question or sarcasm? (Or are you talking smack about my appetite? )

There's too many women (Minority of women that should be nearly in-existant) out there who feed themselves to men's perversion. I hate how certain vulgar and degrading things are used today like it's acceptable.

Like a revealing facebook photo would get a friendly but offensive comment like 'omgad didn't know you were so slutty :3' and the female in said photo would just laugh at that kind of a comment. It's not my place to just step into this convo and speak for her, but I really expect something along the lines of "Um, excuse me? >>"

I'm afraid me telling another man to stop calling every female they set their eyes on a slut will have no impact whatsoever. Not when there's women out there who accepts those comments.

[fanty]

Originally Posted by Paranoid Android

Not when there's women out there who accepts those comments.

The reason why women tend to be inclined to just laugh at such comments, is because they don't want to be perceived as "bitchy militant feminazis". They think that if they just laugh it off, all will be fine, and they'll salvage at least some of their dignity, but, of course, that kind of stuff doesn't make things any better for anyone, and is actually counter-productive.

[TurkeyPotPie]

Originally Posted by Khu

But do you see women wanting to become deep coal miners? Frontline soldiers? Anything to do with danger of any sort?

Just look at the Selective Service system (draft system) in the US. Males 18-25 are required to register or lose out on all kinds of things (financial aid for college, federal/state employment, etc.) How is this just or fair?

Or how about the recent brouhaha over the Costa Concordia? I remember reading (with some amusement) women complaining that men were rushing for the lifeboats ahead of them. If we're all about equality, why are men expected to die (in combat, in disasters) for women?

[Ithekro]

Which basically means we are in a transition point in history. Give it another three to seven generations and things will probably settle down to a new "normal".

Does that help us....no. But it is how culture and society tend to work...over time.

The changes in how women act and how they are treated can be measured within he lifetimes of some people that are alive. Because of this, the old ways are still known, while the new ways are still in conflict with the old. The old had not died off yet, nor has it always tried to adapt to the new ways of thinking. There are still people alive that were born around the turn of the 20th century. Born during the time of Woman's Suffrage. And there are plenty of people still alive from the time of the ERA and other movements from the 1960s and 1970s and into the 1980s. Some never changed. Others did. It won't be until more of those that were alive and didn't change are out of power and/or die of old age that thing will change more and more to the new lines of thinking.

That is...if there isn't a permanent backlash to everything that happened in the 20th century.


(Side note: one of the reasons the ERA failed is because of the Draft. Women had seen what the Draft did to the men of the Vietnam War, and did not want to be part of it).

[TurkeyPotPie]

To all the young guys out there especially, please get educated on men's rights (or lack thereof) in your country. I've seen far too many friends and relatives whose lives have been destroyed thanks to misandric laws and courts. Do not get married (or cohabit) or have children, particularly in the West.

[fanty]

When men complain about the draft, they are complaining in the wrong direction. They should demand to not be drafted at all, just like women.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Khu

It IS NOT okay to hit a girl. Yet when a girl hits a boy, does that make it suddenly okay? If a girl bullies a boy, insults his masculinity, is that still okay? If a girl makes a boy uncomfortable by touching his genitalia, can he, in faith of being a man, still be able to tell her to stop? If a woman engages in domestic violence against a man, can he cry, can he say he is a victim, without being called out as a liar, and being accused of domestic violence himself?

Double standards everywhere, yes, but just because they exist doesn't make them right.

It is not okay to hit anyone! It doesn't matter what they have or don't have between their legs! Violence against other people is inexcusable unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances--i.e. self-defense or the defense of other innocent people.

It's not okay to bully anyone, regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation, style of dress, whether they wear glasses, whether they play videogames or are gigantic otaku.

It's absolutely not okay for anyone to touch anyone else in a sexual manner without their consent. That's sexual harassment at the very least. Sex doesn't matter one whit.

It's absolutely not okay for anyone to abuse their partner, regardless of whether it's a woman abusing a man, a man abusing a woman, or a gay man or lesbian abusing a partner.

These things are never okay. They just aren't. But things get twisted and warped by ridiculous double standards of gender roles and masculine/feminine identity.

Originally Posted by TurkeyPotPie

Or how about the recent brouhaha over the Costa Concordia? I remember reading (with some amusement) women complaining that men were rushing for the lifeboats ahead of them. If we're all about equality, why are men expected to die (in combat, in disasters) for women?

Biologically females are much more important than males. Males cannot carry a child to term. I'm not saying that those women were justified (obviously they weren't), I am merely stating that for nearly all mammalian life, biologically speaking, males are far more expendable than females and this is why various animals have evolved larger males and have evolved and adapted social structures in where the males are the protectors and defenders of the offspring-producing females.

Granted, humanity has surpassed base biology and have become a species of thought and information, but fighting biologically hard-wired behaviors isn't always easy. Look at the obesity epidemic happening in the Western world. There's a reason for this--a biological need to consume as much food as possible whenever it is available, combined with a preferential taste for high-energy (high-fat, high-sugar) foods, and compounded against an abundant supply of cheap, easy-to-obtain food... what do you get? A lot of fat people, all because of a behavioral mechanism that kept us alive and biologically competitive back in the day when "fast food" meant chasing after a deer with a sharpened stick.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Biologically females are much more important than males. Males cannot carry a child to term. I'm not saying that those women were justified (obviously they weren't), I am merely stating that for nearly all mammalian life, biologically speaking, males are far more expendable than females and this is why various animals have evolved larger males and have evolved and adapted social structures in where the males are the protectors and defenders of the offspring-producing females.

Depends entirely on the species. Without the male emperor penguins, all the children would die. I also think that's a fairly silly idea for saying who gets to survive, anyways. Should they instead scream "children and women who intend on reproducing someday/are capable of doing so?" (Though I assume you personally do not support this position, I am just lambasting it in a general sense).

[Ithekro]

Pengiuns aren't mammals though.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Pengiuns aren't mammals though.

True, I didn't notice that bit or at least read over it too quickly... Oh well, the rest of my post is somewhat logical...

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Biologically females are much more important than males. Males cannot carry a child to term.

Have you ever played Valley of the Mammoths. It is a funny recreation of caveman life and yes, you protect the females in the camp, unless it just happens that you have new young females at a less dangerous camp, then you don't care if the old ones die

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

There's a reason for this--a biological need to consume as much food as possible whenever it is available, combined with a preferential taste for high-energy (high-fat, high-sugar) foods, and compounded against an abundant supply of cheap, easy-to-obtain food... what do you get? A lot of fat people, all because of a behavioral mechanism that kept us alive and biologically competitive back in the day when "fast food" meant chasing after a deer with a sharpened stick.

That is not the only reason, have ever seen a fat gorilla? or a fat horse for that matter? Homo sapiens evolved as a PUNY species on purpose, having less muscle consumes less food, so you could feed a family of humans with what an adult gorilla alone eats. The downside is that having little muscle to burn excess calories makes it easy to cross the no return point.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Double standards everywhere, yes, but just because they exist doesn't make them right.

It is not okay to hit anyone! It doesn't matter what they have or don't have between their legs! Violence against other people is inexcusable unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances--i.e. self-defense or the defense of other innocent people.

It's not okay to bully anyone, regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation, style of dress, whether they wear glasses, whether they play videogames or are gigantic otaku.

It's absolutely not okay for anyone to touch anyone else in a sexual manner without their consent. That's sexual harassment at the very least. Sex doesn't matter one whit.

It's absolutely not okay for anyone to abuse their partner, regardless of whether it's a woman abusing a man, a man abusing a woman, or a gay man or lesbian abusing a partner.

These things are never okay. They just aren't. But things get twisted and warped by ridiculous double standards of gender roles and masculine/feminine identity.



Biologically females are much more important than males. Males cannot carry a child to term. I'm not saying that those women were justified (obviously they weren't), I am merely stating that for nearly all mammalian life, biologically speaking, males are far more expendable than females and this is why various animals have evolved larger males and have evolved and adapted social structures in where the males are the protectors and defenders of the offspring-producing females.

Granted, humanity has surpassed base biology and have become a species of thought and information, but fighting biologically hard-wired behaviors isn't always easy. Look at the obesity epidemic happening in the Western world. There's a reason for this--a biological need to consume as much food as possible whenever it is available, combined with a preferential taste for high-energy (high-fat, high-sugar) foods, and compounded against an abundant supply of cheap, easy-to-obtain food... what do you get? A lot of fat people, all because of a behavioral mechanism that kept us alive and biologically competitive back in the day when "fast food" meant chasing after a deer with a sharpened stick.

I agree full heartedly. Basicly Men are the Hunters and Women are the Gatherers. Not that either of the genders couldn't do the opposite, its a instinct thing.

[LeoXiao]

I think gender roles are inevitable and trying to simply root them out won't do much good. That being said, saying that "Oh he's a guy so I can punch him" is pretty perverse. I admit that I would be less likely to punch a girl, but it's not my personal ideology or something.

And frankly, I'm glad my parents followed traditional gender roles; my mom is much better at raising kids than my dad would be. If she had done the typical thing and got a career after college, I would have had less time with her.

[DonQuigleone]

Bah, both genders think a lot more similiarly then people realise.

And when it comes to "sexism" women get it worse then guys.

Now that's not to say that guys have it totally great, there are a few things:

1. Notions of masculinity are often too restrictive. Guys can only be "manly" in the way prescribed by society. When really, the manly thing is to be manly however the hell you want.

2. Men can and are entrapped by women, the reverse is rarer.

3. Men have more (unjust) civil obligations, like being drafted.

4. Men rarely get custody of children in a divorce, divorces often harm men much more then women.

Now, while that's quite bad, women get the worse end of stick:

1. Notions of femininity are even more restrictive, they can't be feminine in the way they want. They have to live in fear of being called a "slut".

2. Women get raped, and abused in relationships, much more then men. Men are more rarely so.

3. Women often get ignored and dismissed by male colleagues, despite having good ideas, and being able to contribute.

4. Women's litarature and fiction is often considered inherently "worse" then men's fiction. Consider the derision romantic movies get. Furthermore, the media establishment often put only a cursory effort into genres stereotypically considered "women's".

5. In fiction, women are rarely main characters, and if they are, they are usually male fantasies, or not very feminine at all (and basically behave like men, but who happen to have boobs). You rarely see typically female concerns addressed in fiction.

6. Working women are much more likely to be sexually harassed by male colleagues or customers. If they dress conservatively, or reject the advances, they're called "dikes", or whatever.

7. Women are heavily expected to look a certain way, and experience far more difficulties if they are not dressed impecably then a man would.

The whole environment is quite poisonous. I'm glad I'm not a woman, as a man, after teenagerhood, I'm fairly free to behave just about however I want.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Congress. Compare the number of men to women. 362:76 in the House, 83:17 in the Senate.

Sadly IMO if the ratio was inversed it would change nothing, since ATM both houses are owned by big money companies and guess what, those are controlled mainly by men which have no interests in women agendas and if suddenly women started to vote in higher perecentages and elected only women, the big money companies would still choose females with agendas that pleased the mostly men CEOs on the forbes 500 list.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

5. In fiction, women are rarely main characters, and if they are, they are usually male fantasies, or not very feminine at all (and basically behave like men, but who happen to have boobs). You rarely see typically female concerns addressed in fiction.

6. Working women are much more likely to be sexually harassed by male colleagues or customers. If they dress conservatively, or reject the advances, they're called "dikes", or whatever.

7. Women are heavily expected to look a certain way, and experience far more difficulties if they are not dressed impecably then a man would.

The whole environment is quite poisonous. I'm glad I'm not a woman, as a man, after teenagerhood, I'm fairly free to behave just about however I want.

You forget often Sexualized for the male fanbase.

[Khu]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Double standards everywhere, yes, but just because they exist doesn't make them right.

It is not okay to hit anyone! It doesn't matter what they have or don't have between their legs! Violence against other people is inexcusable unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances--i.e. self-defense or the defense of other innocent people.

It's not okay to bully anyone, regardless of sex, gender, sexual orientation, style of dress, whether they wear glasses, whether they play videogames or are gigantic otaku.

It's absolutely not okay for anyone to touch anyone else in a sexual manner without their consent. That's sexual harassment at the very least. Sex doesn't matter one whit.

It's absolutely not okay for anyone to abuse their partner, regardless of whether it's a woman abusing a man, a man abusing a woman, or a gay man or lesbian abusing a partner.

These things are never okay. They just aren't. But things get twisted and warped by ridiculous double standards of gender roles and masculine/feminine identity.

That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say.

Thank god someone managed to be able to phrase that for me.

Thank you syn-nee ^^

[Chandela]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Mammalian males essentially evolved as meatshields to protect the females, because biologically speaking a female is much more important than a male.

I don't know about that, in reality women cannot survive without men and vice versa, so to me we are of equal importance although women do seem to get the short end of the stick in the long run when trying to attain an equal status.

[Khu]

Originally Posted by Khu

Viagra should not be covered by insurance. Both promote sexual irresponsibility.

The person that neg repped me for this comment, Viagra is also used to treat cardiac arrhythmia.

So they should both be covered by insurance?