One Piece - Chapter 660 [manga]

[marvelB]

To be fair, I think the fact that Law withstood Rayleigh's haki blast at the auction was enough proof that he had aptitude to utilize that power. And how do we know for sure that he wasn't aware of haki by that point in the story, anyway? Just because Luffy (and to some extent, Zoro) is a clueless neanderthal doesn't exactly mean his supernova peers are the same, after all.

[grey_1960]

^
True but even a genius can not go using advance stuff without learning the basics. It would be like using advance math without learning addition and subtraction. It is impossible unless you learn the basics first. It is a lot harder to learn when you do not know what you have. I just don't see Law pulling things out of thin air and suddenly knowing it has good has luffy. Law is going to need training, information like the amazons and skypia, or a manual on haki.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

If anything, being under Rayleigh's tutelage facilitated the learning process of Haki for Luffy, whereas Law had to learn completely on his own. As for who's more proficient with Haki, that remains to be seen.

[gazawraith]

yeah, Law seems a learned type who'd read up on it and practice.

[golgo13]

My guess for this stage of the encounter smoker may try to disable Law and then save the ship, he is probably the one that can do it (although it would be cool if another crew member could).

Don't see the connection between withstanding CoC and having a haki ability yourself. Coc is about intimidation, if you can withstand it you have a strong spirit, not you can perform the act yourself or hit logias somehow. Chapter 597 pg 11 is when Rayleigh teaches Luffy about haki. He describes it as a power everyone has, however for many it remains dormant. So in that sense Law does have it, the question is how developed is it and which one(s) is/are his specialty.

Wrt to the discussion about whether Law has haki I think everyone means CoA?, ie which gives the user the ability to hit a logia. I'm still not convinced he has it, as he may be able to use his power to surpress smoker and not have to rely on this boost. If he has it, so be it, welcome to the new world. It would be neat to see devil fruit users use their powers uniquely to fight logias and not the catch all that is CoA.

[paradox13]

It would be neat to see devil fruit users use their powers uniquely to fight logias and not the catch all that is CoA.

Why do you say this?

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Why do you say this?

Because I would find it neat if devil fruit users would use their powers uniquely rather than CoA being what sounds like the only answer to logias?

[Jouten]

Originally Posted by golgo13

My guess for this stage of the encounter smoker may try to disable Law and then save the ship, he is probably the one that can do it (although it would be cool if another crew member could).

Don't see the connection between withstanding CoC and having a haki ability yourself. Coc is about intimidation, if you can withstand it you have a strong spirit, not you can perform the act yourself or hit logias somehow. Chapter 597 pg 11 is when Rayleigh teaches Luffy about haki. He describes it as a power everyone has, however for many it remains dormant. So in that sense Law does have it, the question is how developed is it and which one(s) is/are his specialty.

Wrt to the discussion about whether Law has haki I think everyone means CoA?, ie which gives the user the ability to hit a logia. I'm still not convinced he has it, as he may be able to use his power to surpress smoker and not have to rely on this boost. If he has it, so be it, welcome to the new world. It would be neat to see devil fruit users use their powers uniquely to fight logias and not the catch all that is CoA.

This is exactly my opinion. I think Law will figure out a way to use his DF to fight Smoker, but it's just a cheap solution to give Law Haki, because that's not the only way to beat Logias. One way would be to use their natural weakness (though I don't know if smoke has a natural weakness), another one would be to lure him into a trap he can't escape from (like Crocodile did for example), or simply push him into water (Law can lift a gigantic ship, I think he should be able to throw big things at Smoker that push him back), but Haki is just a bullshit solution. It would even mean that Law will fight completely differently than usually (before he only relied on his DF and kept the distance to his enemies) and in that situation Smoker wins even more easily than when Law finds a smart way to use his DF, because I believe Smoker is stronger than Law in close combat. The only thing he needs to do is to capture him in his smoke and pin him down with his Jutte and Smoker wins the fight.
If Law wants to stand a chance against Smoker he will have to keep the distance, I don't see any other way. And that simply doesn't work with CoA Haki, except you use guns maybe (or are a rubber man that can stretch *hint*hint*). CoA Haki doesn't even fit with Law's fighting style and I don't think he bothered to learn a technique that's no use to him.

Law will already have a method of dealing with Logias, but if it's Haki I'm really disappointed.

[cj1277]

Originally Posted by paradox13

He has the luxury; you may not have noticed, but Law is now a member of the Shichibukai. As a member of the Shichibukai, he is possesses immunity from assault from the Marines.



If he didn't have haki he would not have tried to fight Smoker.

I think you might be caught up on this Haki thing too much now that Luffy can use it. CoA is the best defense against logia types but was nevered mentioned as the only defense i think Law will be fine even without Haki as some of the strongest didnt even use it often.

For Example, whether WB and Diamond Jonzu had it still puzzles me as WB was able to hit Akinu but did not stab Aokiji before Jonzu hit him. Looking back, all WB hard hits on Akinu was coated with his DF ability so its probably how and where u use it that can make a difference and maybe theres just a limit (bc of exhastion) on how much one can use Logia's unique attribute and Akinu and Aokiji (from when Jonzu hit him) were just tired and overwhelmed.

[paradox13]

Because I would find it neat if devil fruit users would use their powers uniquely rather than CoA being what sounds like the only answer to logias?

How would Law's power be able to counter smoke?

That just won't make any sense, even in One Piece land.

I think he should be able to throw big things at Smoker that push him back), but Haki is just a bullshit solution.

Yes because pushing smoke is so not bullshit..

Great ideas guys keep it up!

For Example, whether WB and Diamond Jonzu had it still puzzles me as WB was able to hit Akinu

Wow really?

I can state with 99% confidence that both WB and Jozu possesses the ability to use haki (CoA specifically).

It's not only Luffy who can use it; even Pekoms (a grunt under Big Mom's employ) could; yet you are doubting Edward Newgate's (read the strongest man in the world) ability to use haki..!
I think a significant number of people in the New World can use haki to a certain extent (including most if not all the shichibukai). Its not really an industry secret, its just that Luffy never bothered reading or actively seeking a mentor before Rayleigh.

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by paradox13

How would Law's power be able to counter smoke?

That just won't make any sense, even in One Piece land.

I'm not sure. I'm not even sure Law's power really is. Who is to say (i'll try but this better done by oda) he can't seals smoker up in a box, maybe devil fruits don't work in room, he has a seastone weapon or uses smokers jutte. These match ups bring out some creative use of powers.

[paradox13]

Who is to say (i'll try but this better done by oda) he can't seals smoker up in a box, maybe devil fruits don't work in room, he has a seastone weapon or uses smokers jutte.

That's possible, but I don't think haki is as rare as you guys seem to think it is.

[Undertaker]

Besides, we don't even know if the "room" is actually tangible or not. consider so far the on one seems to get deflect by some force-field thing, the "room" is probably not something tangible.

[Valky]

Originally Posted by cj1277

For Example, whether WB and Diamond Jonzu had it still puzzles me as WB was able to hit Akinu but did not stab Aokiji before Jonzu hit him. Looking back, all WB hard hits on Akinu was coated with his DF ability so its probably how and where u use it that can make a difference and maybe theres just a limit (bc of exhastion) on how much one can use Logia's unique attribute and Akinu and Aokiji (from when Jonzu hit him) were just tired and overwhelmed.

In case you didn't notice, WB did stab Aokiji with Haki imbued attack, but it slipped through Aokiji's body (Aokiji made a hole on his body to avoid the said attack). I think the anime made it more clear.

Btw, as it was said before, there are ways to fight against logia users, Haki is the simplest and the most efficient one but you can still use weapons made from sea stone. Who knows? Maybe Law's sword is made of sea stone for all we know.

And yeah, Haki is not rare dude. Everyone in Boa's crew could use it, heck everyone in the island even. So I believe it's just a matter of time we see Law & the others haki.

And yes, there's no reason everyone in the SH crew could not have haki later in the story, if the nameless crew from Boa have it, why couldn't they?

[hero147]

Though, I don't remember Ace having a proficient use of Haki, and yet he should've been in the New World for a large part of his pirating career.

[marvelB]

^Well, we already knew he was capable of using it since we even saw him unleash a burst of CoC during Luffy's flashback. My guess is that he just wasn't very good at controlling it and relied more on his natural fighting skills + his logia ability instead (and frankly, I don't think it's too difficult to surmise that being the case considering how easily Whitebeard kept smacking him around when they first met.....).



And then there's special cases like Jinbei, whose merman karate can control water in the atmosphere, so he's very much capable of handling enemy DF users even if he has low aptitude for haki, as well. Actually, that reminds me of a question I raised during the previous arc about whether or not fish-people are the only species capable of using that particular martial art? Because it sure would be interesting to see if there exist humans who mastered that powerful art, as well.....

[paradox13]

And then there's special cases like Jinbei, whose merman karate can control water in the atmosphere, so he's very much capable of handling enemy DF users even if he has low aptitude for haki, as well

He can control water, but remember, the sea is what negates DFs, not water per se, so Jimbei splashing water on say a logia wouldn't have too much effect.

[golgo13]

Originally Posted by marvelB

And then there's special cases like Jinbei, whose merman karate can control water in the atmosphere, so he's very much capable of handling enemy DF users even if he has low aptitude for haki, as well. Actually, that reminds me of a question I raised during the previous arc about whether or not fish-people are the only species capable of using that particular martial art? Because it sure would be interesting to see if there exist humans who mastered that powerful art, as well.....

That's interesting. If so then it would have to be a human that was close the mermans to have be trained (unless..fishman karate was actually taught to them by humans...).

I don't think Fisher Tiger was proficient at fishman karate considering his unorthodox, but wicked, fighting style From one piece wiki:

"During his attack on Mariejois, he was seen carrying many weapons: he wielded a large saber and a massive pistol, had two more sheathed swords by his side, and a bazooka-like weapon strapped to his back."

Spoiler for awesomeness:

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by paradox13

He can control water, but remember, the sea is what negates DFs, not water per se, so Jimbei splashing water on say a logia wouldn't have too much effect.

True, but still, remember what Jinbei told Luffy: Not only does his karate control the water in the atmosphere, but the water in living creatures' bodies, as well. And considering that water makes up about 60-70% of a human's body mass, well.....

[Undertaker]

Which in essence pretty much gave Jinbe DF power without him eating one.

But either way, Jinbe was handle fairly easily against Akainu. Which would suggest that he does have a problem against certain Logia.