Fate/Grand Order (Mobile RPG)

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Because what the Trees are is well known right?

Them containing a galaxy and being able to direct all that energy at a target isn't a debatable fact anymore. It's basically rubbed into the players face, there isn't any way around it.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Which signifies nothing at all given that the Lostbelts are projections of the Trees. You surely aren't equating each Lostbelt to the entire universe the story is taking place in?

Add on to the fact the Lostbelt isn't actually "gone" when it happens. That only occurs when you take out the Tree projecting it, leading to the Cosmos Denial.

You're trying to dodge the reality of the situation. The sun and stars observably exist in the LB and are just as observably destroyed by the NP. And the Lostbelt is gone, Arjalter just puts it back afterword.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Which explicitly means they don't have that absolute level of power. In Kama's case you can out BS her. In Junao's case you can also but with him, he explicitly cannot affect even the planet itself (not anti-planet NP). Compare with Zeus whose power is reliant only on his nature as a starship (anti-star NP as well) and not circumstances

No, it doesn't. It means Fate has mechanics that let you ignore raw power. You finding a way to win doesn't somehow eliminate what happens on screen

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I dunno.....all Anti-World NPs? Of which Maha Pralaya is one?

So is Elementary My Dear and Okitan's NP, neither of which affect more than a single target. Again, "Anti-World" is explicitly a mechanic and not a power level.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Which means texture editing/busting. NOT destroying the planet. You need backing from a celestial body scale entity for that. Like Kiara jacking the Mooncell or BB.

.......No. No it doesn't. Okitan's NP has jack shit to do with a texture at all, she can just yeet her target out of history. Holmes can eliminate Mystery itself. "Texture" has nothing to do with something being Anti-World.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Because Type-MOON mechanics are very explicit and straightforward. More straightforward than all the technobabble they spend pages upon pages on. Right.

"It's an actual galaxy and its directing all its energy at us". Yes very open to interpretation.

*The entirety of observable space is annihilated* "Well I mean it's probably just special effects"

Again, these things happen on screen.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Zeus does break the spacetime fabric in the Musashi scene after you defeat him but it's not nuking the whole universe.

And Arjuna Alt busting the whole universe......See above. It is very clear he doesn't.

Look, plenty of Type-MOON abilities rely on conceptual interpretation but the one thing very consistent is the celestial body hierarchy. To the point destroying a planet, let alone the whole universe is a very big deal and merits its own class of NP.

It's almost like Zeus doesn't need to nuke the universe to deal with us? We kill him the Black Barrel, it's not like we were a direct physical threat even with a Grand at our side.

And again, you're trying to deny what blatantly happens on screen. Until you can come up with an answer for why the entirety of observable space including celestial bodies such as stars are just gone, you're swinging at air.

And Arjalter/Mara explicitly have jurisdiction over "the universe", and Zeus' powers don't give a shit about Human Order.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

You know very well that's not the case. Hell, that response simply highlights how unquantifiable Astarte is in the main plot.

Yes, it is in fact the case that the explicitly universe destroying Arjalter is above the galaxy busting Astarte. And Zeus is on par or above Arjalter.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

None of them are Astarte though. She's obviously treated as that person whom we don't mention in any major role.

MHX is the one who revives the universe after its been annihilated, dude. She has some kind of infinity gauntlet knockoff.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Except that Anti-World NP is explicitly stated to be unable to destroy the planet. So equating World with "Everything" is false. The World is the texture of Earth that people experience. Example Rhongomyniad pins the front and back sides of the World in place.

If humans became the dominant race in the universe like in the Servant Universe maybe. It isn't in the main one though.

And BTW, the source of everything in Type MOON is the Root. The "thing" Void Ryogi is connected to. Not the World.

The World was able to cloak an entire galaxy, grants dominion over celestial bodies to its deities, and in the Servant Universe overtook the rest of the universe completely.

The point is that the Human Order is capable of affecting celestial bodies. The only ones who can defy it are those that have their own Order, like Sefar or the TYPE's.

......And your point is? If the World were the source of everything it'd already be like the Servant Universe. The point is, even as it is in the main timeline, The World can and has repeatedly influenced the cosmos beyond the bounds of just the planet.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

You......don't see how this contradicts your notion that being of another celestial body like the sun is underwhelming? Especially with how you defined World above?

And BTW, before you say so.....OORT is of Mercury (or was. Who knows if that's still true) not another universe. So World is more connected to state of a planet than the whole universe.

The majority of the rest of the universe doesn't appear to have its own Order, while the ones in the Solar System evidently did, by virtue of being populated by at least some kind of life form.

OORT being a TYPE means its the Ultimate One of Mercury, as it the apex of all life on the planet. In turn implying it has some form of life, that would form its own Order. This power would be concentrated into OORT, giving it the ability to at least in part defy Human Order by being the same kind of existence.

Unless we find out that the sun also has its own Order, Ammy by default is a product of the Human Order. And thus far hasn't actually demonstrated anything in the way of power despite being compared to Velber/Sefar.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

It doesn't have any relevance to Arjuna Alt here though.

His explicit dominion over "the universe" is based on Indian understanding of "the universe", so it kinda is.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

She also has the Mooncell backing her for that.

That aside, Buddhas and certain celestial body deities are the only entities stated to govern swathes of non-Earth celestial domains in Type MOON so far. The rest, Arjuna Alter included, are still bound by Earth rules.

No, she has the Mooncell backing her transformation into it.

Yeah, the Hindu gods are part of those "celestial body deities". Arjalter and Mara's Authority makes explicit mention of "the universe".

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Kings other than Zeus are not as high up there as you seem to think. Sure they are stronger than almost anything else but not to the level you are implying.

This is again in direct contradiction to on screen events. You keep trying to just side-step that, but this isn't an interpretation, it actually physically, visually happens in the game.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

And the World is still dependent on the celestial body known as Earth. You know what even the Moon is capable of as shown by the Mooncell. Is this a "galaxy" or is this an actual astronomical formation commonly known as a galaxy?

Don't blame me when Mushroom made these distinctions.

In the same way that a Servant is "dependent" on their Spirit Core, as in they'll die if it goes away. They can still affect a hell of a lot outside their body, though.

Dude, they literally made that exact distinction. It's explicitly the giant celestial body galaxy.

It's kind of hard not to blame you when you pose a question like that (Is it really a real galaxy) when said question was explicitly answered in the affirmative by the game

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Because it's Mushroom himself who defines these things? Do I think it's stupid writing? Yes I do. But can I see his point? Yes I can.

You misunderstanding him isn't his fault, dude. The World explicitly and openly affects other celestial bodies multiple times. It's influence has never been limited to the surface of the planet.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

And remember, far before Fate even came out, we had Aristoteles running rampant. Them trumping anything coming out of humanity has been consistent up to today

And? The TYPE's are the product of other Orders, giving them the standing to defy the Human Order. That has jack all to do with what we're discussin.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

For that matter, everything went out the window when Mushroom tied Arjuna Alt to explicitly Human Order as a Lostbelt King instead of the Brahman-Atman concept. How can something explicitly the source and nature of all in IRL Hinduism be limited only to his Lostbelt and its progress? It is clear after this that one cannot use Hinduism IRL to gauge his ability since it only follows superficially.

What are you talking about?

You know that in Fate that concept is a product of the Human Order, right? Said Order gives it jurisdiction over "the universe" as defined by the peoples understanding of the universe at the time.

And we can gauge his ability based off of what he visually does on-screen. We literally see him wipe away a sky filled with stars and recreate it.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Again, by that logic, Anti-World NPs would be the most destructive thing around. We know they aren't.

Like seriously......No one should be able to escape Maha Pralaya if that were the case. Not even by exiting the Lostbelt.

And again, you're using "Anti-World" in the wrong context. The ability to defy the rules of the World has jack all to do with destructive power.

And we escape Arjalters NP by jumping into Zero Sail. As in entering a state of non-existence.

[XFire]

The main point is here is that there's explicit, visual evidence of what both Mara and Arjalter can do.

The game goes out of its way to say the trees contain an actual physical galaxy ("as in the giant celestial body, galaxy").

The Servant Universe, including the member of it who appears in Solomon, demonstrate galactic and universe levels of power.

We've got multiple examples of the World affecting other celestial bodies.

This stuff actually happens. On screen, physically and visually. You can't explain it away because you want "the World" to actually just mean the planet and nothing else.

[Sheba]

Blue crystal revive + curse stacking absolute nonsense

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Blue crystal revive + curse stacking absolute nonsense

Do you guys just hit retreat whenever you're about to beat the boss for the first time, so that you can repeatedly try out new strategies?

Also, is there a "use-it-or-lose-it" situation regarding the Blue Crystals?

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by XFire

You're trying to dodge the reality of the situation. The sun and stars observably exist in the LB and are just as observably destroyed by the NP. And the Lostbelt is gone, Arjalter just puts it back afterword.

I've been watching this back-and-forth go on, and I just have a couple questions (because I completely skipped through the cutscenes).

Is each Lostbelt tree a self-contained Earth, solar-system, galaxy, parallel universe, or what? Also, I seem to recall reading something about each Tree being a simulation or something, projected into Reality. If that were the case, perhaps what Arjalter destroyed was the simulated environment?

How long is everything destroyed by Arjalter? Like, 2 seconds? 3 days? The reason I ask is because if we see Arjalter destroy everything, that may not technically be true. Due to the vastness of space, what we see is actually images of the objects in the past. (i.e., by the time we see the Sun, it's actually the Sun 8 minutes in the past).

So rather than destroying everything, Arjalter may have just destroyed everything (including light), within a certain radius.

[Void]

I did five singles and one multi because I wanted to try out that famous ritual.

And it worked. Got Wu in the singles and Ibuki in the multi.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Rasen

I've been watching this back-and-forth go on, and I just have a couple questions (because I completely skipped through the cutscenes).

Is each Lostbelt tree a self-contained Earth, solar-system, galaxy, parallel universe, or what? Also, I seem to recall reading something about each Tree being a simulation or something, projected into Reality. If that were the case, perhaps what Arjalter destroyed was the simulated environment?

How long is everything destroyed by Arjalter? Like, 2 seconds? 3 days? The reason I ask is because if we see Arjalter destroy everything, that may not technically be true. Due to the vastness of space, what we see is actually images of the objects in the past. (i.e., by the time we see the Sun, it's actually the Sun 8 minutes in the past).

So rather than destroying everything, Arjalter may have just destroyed everything (including light), within a certain radius.

The Lostbelts are timelines. Their exact size is...indeterminate, since the storm walls don't, for example, cover the sky.

Arjalter, however, is explicitly destroying everything inside said timeline, absorbing it, and editing it. It's referred to as "the universe" in dialogue several times and you can see the sun and stars, and they're gone after the NP use.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Rasen

I've been watching this back-and-forth go on, and I just have a couple questions (because I completely skipped through the cutscenes).

Is each Lostbelt tree a self-contained Earth, solar-system, galaxy, parallel universe, or what? Also, I seem to recall reading something about each Tree being a simulation or something, projected into Reality. If that were the case, perhaps what Arjalter destroyed was the simulated environment?

How long is everything destroyed by Arjalter? Like, 2 seconds? 3 days? The reason I ask is because if we see Arjalter destroy everything, that may not technically be true. Due to the vastness of space, what we see is actually images of the objects in the past. (i.e., by the time we see the Sun, it's actually the Sun 8 minutes in the past).

So rather than destroying everything, Arjalter may have just destroyed everything (including light), within a certain radius.

It's theorized that the trees simulate and project these alternate timelines onto the planet.

[Sheba]

Santa Karna guys

Check out outside if there is no aliens, I mean its 2020

https://twitter.com/fgoproject/statu...73933579927552

[AC-Phoenix]

Why can't they just give us actual Santa...?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Why can't they just give us actual Santa...?

It'll be Kirei as a pseudo Servant channeling Santa Claus and other deities or semi deities associated with winter soltice lmao. And he'll give you mapo tofu.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Why can't they just give us actual Santa...?

Probably saving him for the final Christmas event

[Tenzen12]

Maybe Santa will be actual fianl boss...

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It'll be Kirei as a pseudo Servant channeling Santa Claus and other deities or semi deities associated with winter soltice lmao. And he'll give you mapo tofu.

Kirei can be this guy... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

[Void]

The new SSR appears to have reptilian (as in, dragon) features. Not a coincidence George, Sieg and Sigurd are also featured in the new Christmas event. And is also quite fitting that the hero of charity has taken up as santa this year.

[Rasen]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Why can't they just give us actual Santa...?

This is our first male Santa. This is a huge step for gender equality.

Also, I fear a "Real" Santa would end up being like Mel Gibson's Fatman.

[belatkuro]

And the new SSR is Vritra. AoE Arts Lancer. She's permanent and not locked behind a story chapter.
Santa Karna is ST Quick Saber. Who uses his fists. Probably a pun on sword and fist being both 'Ken' from Kenshi(Swordsman).
Georgius gets an animation update. Beowulf gets a skill strengthening.

Still not finished on Heiankyo though. Too slow and lazy to read.

[devilo96]

So i got 3 ssr in one pull 30sq and all of them are new servant that i dont have...
The list :The new lancer, twin saber and orion...and now my friends tolf me to meet up in burger king...and he said he gonna pay my meal...so should i.meet up with him(he ask me after i show him my gacha result) but i feel i should stay at home for tmr...idk why i have a bad felling

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Rasen

This is our first male Santa. This is a huge step for gender equality.

Also, I fear a "Real" Santa would end up being like Mel Gibson's Fatman.

Doesn't matter...

Alternatively... For awesomeness... Santa... HERACLES!

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Doesn't matter...

Alternatively... For awesomeness... Santa... HERACLES!

YES! THIS! Make it happen Type Moon! Iliya would love it