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Old 2016-07-12, 06:33   Link #41
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Unless some cyclone sink that artificial island, China is keeping that patch of sea. Frankly the rules had always been that if you can put your troops somewhere, then you own that place until someone kick you out, legal or not. Been that way for as long as troops existed.
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Old 2016-07-12, 06:36   Link #42
Brother Coa
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Pretty much.

The main question is - will west sanction China like they did Russia if they refuse to step down?
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Old 2016-07-12, 07:39   Link #43
Kakurin
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China would not be the first case of a country ignoring the verdict of an international court. The International Court of Justice for example once ruled the case Nicaragua v. United States of America. Nicaragua in the 1980s sued the United States for damages for their support for the Nicaraguan anti-communist guerillas. The court ruled in favour of Nicaragua and awarded compensations. The US did not participate in the proceedings after their argument that the court did not possess jurisdiction was rejected, never accepted the verdict and never paid the compensations, calling the court "a semi-legal, semi-juridicial, semi-political body, which nations sometimes accept and sometimes don't".

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It will be interesting to see will USA sanction China
Amusingly the US never signed the UNCLOS which forms the basis for the rule of the Court of Arbitration today.
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Old 2016-07-12, 09:32   Link #44
Marcus H.
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It will be easier for the PH to gain sympathy at least. The Senkaku island dispute means that Japan would know that feel, and a handful of ASEAN nations have their problems with China taking their territorial waters.
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Old 2016-07-12, 09:50   Link #45
Kakurin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
and a handful of ASEAN nations have their problems with China taking their territorial waters.
You have to separate between territorial waters and EEZs. Nearly all of the disputes and violations are about the EEZs. There's too much throwing together of territorial waters and EEZ. For example, the Philippines do not possess any recognised territorial waters in the area of the Spratly Islands. Their EEZ generated by Palawan though (under the assumption that none of the Spratly Islands generate a recognised EEZ) encompass some of the area of the the Spratly group.
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Old 2016-07-12, 15:42   Link #46
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
Pretty much.

The main question is - will west sanction China like they did Russia if they refuse to step down?
It would be a good thing that happens. The only problem is that China doesn't have a polarizing Putin-like figure that people worldwide can easily recognize and hate. It's only my opinion, but I think the sanctions would be passed more easily if people saw the Chinese president/premier as some sort of Asian Putin.

Last edited by KiraYamatoFan; 2016-07-12 at 22:10.
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Old 2016-07-12, 16:26   Link #47
Kakurin
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It would be a good thing that happens.
It would be a disaster. The last thing the world needs right now is an economic war with the second biggest economy of the world. And the equation of the severity between the sea disputes and the issue of the Crimea and Donbass is questionable.
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Old 2016-07-13, 00:26   Link #48
Brother Coa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
It would be a good thing that happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakurin-san View Post
It would be a disaster. The last thing the world needs right now is an economic war with the second biggest economy of the world.
Good thing?

China is not Russia, China is worlds second economy that produces some 80% of all world goods and holds the majority of USA debt.

To sanction China is to shoot world economy in foot. Nobody wants to see entire world burn in civil unrest because of shortages everywhere.
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Old 2016-07-13, 02:17   Link #49
Ithekro
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I am pretty sure several isolationist and nationalist in the United States would love to shoot the world economy in the foot in the hopes of bringing businesses by to US soil from China.
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Old 2016-07-13, 09:21   Link #50
Grifis
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To the US, Russia is a threat and China is not. So besides pretending to do something about China, the US isn't and won't actually do anything about China until China proves to be a threat to the US' interests.
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Old 2016-07-13, 11:35   Link #51
Xellos-_^
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I am pretty sure several isolationist and nationalist in the United States would love to shoot the world economy in the foot in the hopes of bringing businesses by to US soil from China.
they are going to be disappointed since most of those business isn't even in China anymore.
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Old 2016-07-13, 13:47   Link #52
KiraYamatoFan
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
they are going to be disappointed since most of those business isn't even in China anymore.
Those are now in India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, and other neighboring countries. In any case, production of goods has been moving out of China for a number of recent years now, and those other countries are gladly asking for more.

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To the US, Russia is a threat and China is not. So besides pretending to do something about China, the US isn't and won't actually do anything about China until China proves to be a threat to the US' interests.
Tell me how people have reached this conclusion. Unless some people are still stuck in the Cold War, that claim makes little to no sense.

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Unless some cyclone sink that artificial island
That would be a very welcome intervention of Mother Nature.
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Old 2016-07-13, 15:34   Link #53
Brother Coa
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Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Those are now in India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, and other neighboring countries. In any case, production of goods has been moving out of China for a number of recent years now, and those other countries are gladly asking for more.
In recent years, you said that very well.

To remove entire foreign industrial production from China will take years if not decades. And China has already begun investing a LOT in Europe,Africa and USA, buying industries there and producing or selling their good for incredibly low prices.

Plus, countries like Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand and Philippines where most of industry is relocating are not developed enough to meet the standards of the goods produced in China. So the investors first must build and then invest in that country setting their standards higher to get same quality they are getting from China. A very expensive and a very time consuming thing. Even India is held back a a little because of that.

So I am not afraid at all as far as China goes, they are secured their current position for at least next 30 or 40 years. If something major does not happen that is.

And time is on their side seeing how UN, USA and Europe global powers are getting weaker and weaker each year while states like Brasil and South Africa grow in power each year.
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Old 2016-07-13, 21:41   Link #54
Yu Ominae
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Confirming that Public Security Police is tightening security at the outskirts of the Philippine Embassy, a possible precaution to what happened in the protests against Japan in 2012.
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Old 2016-07-17, 11:54   Link #55
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
China is not Russia, China is worlds second economy that produces some 80% of all world goods and holds the majority of USA debt.
China does not in fact owns the majority of USA debt, that would be the US itself:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news...ebt-ownership/

US owns 67.5% of its own debt @ $12.9 trillion, while China owns 7% of the debt @ $1.3 trillion.

7% is very far away from being a majority of anything.

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And time is on their side seeing how UN, USA and Europe global powers are getting weaker and weaker each year while states like Brasil and South Africa grow in power each year.
Brazil? really? Brazil?
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Old 2016-07-17, 12:10   Link #56
Brother Coa
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How can country own it's own foreign debt? It's article from CNN so I am not supprosed.

And why are you so suprised aboit Brazil? Their economy is one that has fastest grow.
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Old 2016-07-17, 13:28   Link #57
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
How can country own it's own foreign debt?
You didn't say "foreign" at first. And a country holds its own debt when its citizens and companies (banks, investment funds...) buy its treasury bonds.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2016-07-17 at 16:13.
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Old 2016-07-17, 14:53   Link #58
Brother Coa
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Sorry, when I say debt in USA case I usually mean foreign.
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Old 2016-07-17, 23:42   Link #59
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Brother Coa View Post
And why are you so suprised aboit Brazil? Their economy is one that has fastest grow.
I doubt Brazil's economy is anything remotely close to being the fastest in growth - for starters, they're in their third consecutive year of recession.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YH08D
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Old 2016-07-18, 01:55   Link #60
Brother Coa
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"From 2000 to 2012, Brazil was one of the fastest-growing major economies in the world, with an average annual GDP growth rate of over 5%, with its economy in 2012 surpassing that of the United Kingdom, temporarily making Brazil the world's sixth largest economy. However, Brazil's economy growth decelerated in 2013 and the country entered an ongoing recession in 2014"

All of this in just 3 years? 0_0

I won;t even imagine what will happen if USA ever enter recession...
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