(L) Seirei Gensouki: Spirit Chronicles

[DragonOsman]

Aishia did still try to use the Dragon King's power, which means she had it. That wasn't Rio's divinity but his actual power.

The authority is engraved in the soul, but it might not be the same thing as the raw power of the transcendental. Because in the quote I showed here, it clearly says that Aishia was releasing the Dragon King's power.

[Xan2341]

Volume 21 retcon'd several plot elements of volume 20, so without more explanation from the author its safe to say using volume 20 as examples is the wrong choice as there are plot holes present currently.

For example in volume 20 it was stated Rio used his own "power" to create a sword. This was prior to Aishia assimilating with him. Volume 21 changed this to the sword was actually a spirit arms created between Aishia and Rio's assimilation. Rio confirmed he couldn't make the sword, but could use his own authority of annihilation if he wanted to.

Volume 20, we know Aishia was attempting to give back Rio's divinity/power but was also attempting to use it herself against the great spirit. The vagueness here may save this from being a true plot hole, but volume 21 made it so only the original 14 transcendent can use authorities as that power is carved into their souls. So only those with a direct connection to the world's god can use transcended powers. Aishia may have wiggle room as she is "inside" Rio's soul which can access the authority.

Aishia was created by Lina sacrificing some of her own divinity permanently. This doesn't mean Aishia is made out of divine power herself, but she is holding Lina's divinity. However unless the plot changes again, she can't obtain the powers of the other transcended. She may be able to use Rio's due to her unique origin which was inside Rio's soul and her connection to it.

[Spoutebe]

Well for me to be clear power and divinity are two different things. Power is the authority while the divinity is divinity.

So vol 20 with the Aishia stuff is wrong for me because when i read vol 21 and reread now it's said :

"if you've inherited Lina's divinity, does that mean you can use Lina's transcendent powers, Aishia?"
"The powers itself are carved into the transcendent one's soul. Lina's soul is within Miharu, so there's no way for me to use it." - so Aishia in vol 20 couldn't use DK's authority and furthemore in vol 21 Rio said to Aishia is is the only one to use the DK's power and Aishia didn't deny it. But like said above by Xan maybe the trick with the soul can work even if it's likely unlikely for me
"In that case, will Miharu be able to use transcendent powers if you return Lina's divinity to her?"
"It might be possible...But i don't know how to do that." -> for me that will be the spoil of vol 23 based on cover. Don't know how but Aishia will manage to return Lina's divinity to Miharu for sure for Miharu become a transcendent again and use her power

"So it'd be natural to assume Lina wanted the Dragon King to use his powers."
"That seems to be the case." In those two last sentences the use his powers refer to his authority for sure that's why Rio needed Aishia return him his divinity and not authority (that was her mission).


Well the thing is again, too little info from author about it. So need to wait. While rereading vol 21, i didn't understood the life force part. Life force can be converted in power too but this power again is not authority ?

[jagt]

Originally Posted by Spoutebe

Well for me to be clear power and divinity are two different things. Power is the authority while the divinity is divinity.

So vol 20 with the Aishia stuff is wrong for me because when i read vol 21 and reread now it's said :

"if you've inherited Lina's divinity, does that mean you can use Lina's transcendent powers, Aishia?"
"The powers itself are carved into the transcendent one's soul. Lina's soul is within Miharu, so there's no way for me to use it." - so Aishia in vol 20 couldn't use DK's authority and furthemore in vol 21 Rio said to Aishia is is the only one to use the DK's power and Aishia didn't deny it. But like said above by Xan maybe the trick with the soul can work even if it's likely unlikely for me
"In that case, will Miharu be able to use transcendent powers if you return Lina's divinity to her?"
"It might be possible...But i don't know how to do that." -> for me that will be the spoil of vol 23 based on cover. Don't know how but Aishia will manage to return Lina's divinity to Miharu for sure for Miharu become a transcendent again and use her power

"So it'd be natural to assume Lina wanted the Dragon King to use his powers."
"That seems to be the case." In those two last sentences the use his powers refer to his authority for sure that's why Rio needed Aishia return him his divinity and not authority (that was her mission).


Well the thing is again, too little info from author about it. So need to wait. While rereading vol 21, i didn't understood the life force part. Life force can be converted in power too but this power again is not authority ?

What someone needs to use an authority are two things, divinity and the authority itself. Aisia had the dragon king's authority and Lina's divinity. Aisia was just about to use Lina's divinity for activating annihilation until Rio got close, then annihilation, realizing that Rio, its rightfull owner, was nearby, flowed back into him. Rio, who always had his own divinity inside himself, gained an instinctual understanding of how to use annihilation the moment he got it back then, when he was just about to use it Aisia stopped him so he wouldn't die when using it by himself and assimilated with him so Lina's divinity would protect him from annihilation's recoil. I seriously don't know what it is so hard to understand about what happened.

About why Lina could transfer annihilation to Aisia when it is suppossedly impossible to separate an authority from the transcendental's soul. This is just my theory but... What if a little bit of the mana the dragon king's spiritual body used to be made of was used for creating Aisia and stood in for his soul?

[Spoutebe]

Well we can just speculate with theories now, but still i don't want to believe Aishia had Rio's authority until the author explains to us this stuff and how it was made possible while that's supposed to be impossible because right now the ending of vol 20 contradicts what's said in vol 21.

Can't wait any longer vol 23 to have more explications about that, we will have some good stuff based on synopsis and cover.

[Xan2341]

Originally Posted by jagt

What someone needs to use an authority are two things, divinity and the authority itself. Aisia had the dragon king's authority and Lina's divinity. Aisia was just about to use Lina's divinity for activating annihilation until Rio got close, then annihilation, realizing that Rio, its rightfull owner, was nearby, flowed back into him. Rio, who always had his own divinity inside himself, gained an instinctual understanding of how to use annihilation the moment he got it back then, when he was just about to use it Aisia stopped him so he wouldn't die when using it by himself and assimilated with him so Lina's divinity would protect him from annihilation's recoil. I seriously don't know what it is so hard to understand about what happened.

About why Lina could transfer annihilation to Aisia when it is suppossedly impossible to separate an authority from the transcendental's soul. This is just my theory but... What if a little bit of the mana the dragon king's spiritual body used to be made of was used for creating Aisia and stood in for his soul?

All of us over at discord were pulling out the yarn and white board to figure this out, but think you are right after digging through vol 20 and 21. This gets confusing.

[hihoperorin]

Rio had his divinity, Aishia had his authority. Those are parts of the events that happened in vol 20, what Aishia said in vol 21 was an explanation, explanations can be added to or corrected or even turn to be wrong, but you can't do the same for events that already took place. As for how his authority was inside Aishia, Lina managed to do it and that's that, the entire wise gods lore can be summed up to them having been circumventing the rules, wouldn't be strange if she managed to find a way around this either, one such possibility is Jagt's theory about it. Besides, from Lina's perspective, you'd want Rio in his human phase of the plan to have the divinity which gives him infinite maryoku, not the authority which if it somehow activates, the entire plan burns down along with the world (according to what she saw).

[DragonOsman]

If Rio had the power, he would've tried to use it without a spirit body and that would've made his power tear his own body apart. He had his divinity but not his power for that reason. He needs to assimilate with Aishia to be able to use his power safely, not because of Lina's divinity inside Aishia but because of the fact that he doesn't have a spirit body of his own. And besides, Aishia can't use Lina's divinity, so I don't see how Rio could.

And again: Lina also transferred her own power into Aishia. So Miharu needs to get back both her divinity and her power. Lina sacrificed some of her divinity when creating Aishia, after all. And the Great Spirit of Earth viewed both Miharu and Aishia as Lina.

[jagt]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

If Rio had the power, he would've tried to use it without a spirit body and that would've made his power tear his own body apart. He had his divinity but not his power for that reason. He needs to assimilate with Aishia to be able to use his power safely, not because of Lina's divinity inside Aishia but because of the fact that he doesn't have a spirit body of his own. And besides, Aishia can't use Lina's divinity, so I don't see how Rio could.

And again: Lina also transferred her own power into Aishia. So Miharu needs to get back both her divinity and her power. Lina sacrificed some of her divinity when creating Aishia, after all. And the Great Spirit of Earth viewed both Miharu and Aishia as Lina.

Rio tried to use his authority the moment he got it back, and it was precisely then that Aisia told him to stop because she knew Rio would die if he did, but due to being a human and not because of the lack of a spiritual body, what someone needs to survive the use of an authority isn't the possession of a spirtual body but simply to not have a normal human body, and how the six wise Gods can use safely their authorities despite not being spiritual beings is proof of that. That's why Rio needs to assimilate with Aisia, because during the assimilation, when Aisia's body is fused with his, his body isn't a normal human body anymore, but as Aisia herself explained in volume 21, this change isn't enough for reducing the recoil of using annihilation to an acceptable level, and that's where the access to Lina's divinity, the other benefit of assimilating with Aisia, comes in, because during tha assimilition Rio can use that divinity for lowering the recoil of using his authority, explained as such by Aisia. You are also wrong about Aisia not being able to use Lina's divinity herself, the book already showed us how she was just about to use it for activating annihilation until Rio got in her way.

Why do you insist so much in denying Aisia's and the book's words? It was Aisia herself who said that what Lina put inside her body were her divinity and annihilation, while future sigh, that is fused with Lina's soul, is inisde Miharu that is that soul's new owner. It was also Aisia herself who said that the earth's great spirit saw her as Lina because she had her divinity while he recognized Miharu thanks to Lina's soul and future sigh being inside her. It was also because Aisia just had Lina's divinity inside her that during their fight the earth's great spirit concluded that Aisia was just a decoy and a temporary container for Lina's divinity while Miharu was the real thing.

[hihoperorin]

Hahahaha this conversation is like those misunderstandings that happen in mangas.

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by jagt

Rio tried to use his authority the moment he got it back, and it was precisely then that Aisia told him to stop because she knew Rio would die if he did, but due to being a human and not because of the lack of a spiritual body, what someone needs to survive the use of an authority isn't the possession of a spirtual body but simply to not have a normal human body, and how the six wise Gods can use safely their authorities despite not being spiritual beings is proof of that. That's why Rio needs to assimilate with Aisia, because during the assimilation, when Aisia's body is fused with his, his body isn't a normal human body anymore, but as Aisia herself explained in volume 21, this change isn't enough for reducing the recoil of using annihilation to an acceptable level, and that's where the access to Lina's divinity, the other benefit of assimilating with Aisia, comes in, because during tha assimilition Rio can use that divinity for lowering the recoil of using his authority, explained as such by Aisia. You are also wrong about Aisia not being able to use Lina's divinity herself, the book already showed us how she was just about to use it for activating annihilation until Rio got in her way.

Why do you insist so much in denying Aisia's and the book's words? It was Aisia herself who said that what Lina put inside her body were her divinity and annihilation, while future sigh, that is fused with Lina's soul, is inisde Miharu that is that soul's new owner. It was also Aisia herself who said that the earth's great spirit saw her as Lina because she had her divinity while he recognized Miharu thanks to Lina's soul and future sigh being inside her. It was also because Aisia just had Lina's divinity inside her that during their fight the earth's great spirit concluded that Aisia was just a decoy and a temporary container for Lina's divinity while Miharu was the real thing.

What I remember is that we were told that Lina put her power and divinity inside Aishia before she reincarnated. Miharu has Lina's soul while Aishia has a partial copy of her memories, her power and her divinity. Aishia is holding onto Lina's power and divinity until Miharu is ready to get them back.

Aishia also said that Rio not having his own spiritual body makes assimilation close to 100% more dangerous for him because it makes him closer to a spirit than a human. And the Dragon King had a spirit body, but Rio doesn't since he's a human and just has a soul.

We still need to know exactly how Lina was able to transfer the Dragon King's power into Aishia since, as Aishia said, the authority of a transcendental is engraved in their soul.

I'll have to read it again to see why Rio needs to assimilate with Aishia because I have some confusion about that.

[hihoperorin]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

What I remember is that we were told that Lina put her power and divinity inside Aishia before she reincarnated. Miharu has Lina's soul while Aishia has a partial copy of her memories, her power and her divinity. Aishia is holding onto Lina's power and divinity until Miharu is ready to get them back.

Aishia also said that Rio not having his own spiritual body makes assimilation close to 100% more dangerous for him because it makes him closer to a spirit than a human. And the Dragon King had a spirit body, but Rio doesn't since he's a human and just has a soul.

We still need to know exactly how Lina was able to transfer the Dragon King's power into Aishia since, as Aishia said, the authority of a transcendental is engraved in their soul.

I'll have to read it again to see why Rio needs to assimilate with Aishia because I have some confusion about that.

Vol 21 the talk between Rio and Aishia in ch 2, Aishia explains about assimilation and why they need to do it, then in ch 4 she explains Miharu's situation and her authority.

[DragonOsman]

Aishia just says that assimilating with her made him closer to a spirit than a human. My guess is that because the Dragon King himself had a spiritual body of his own, Rio needed to transform closer to a spirit to able to use his power without dying. But yeah, it could also just be that he needs to become something more than human which assimilating with Aishia does to him.

Aishia says in Volume 21 Chapter 2 that Lina sacrificed some of her divinity to create her, then made a spirit bond between the Dragon King and her and stored her in his soul. Maybe she had his power because she was in his soul?

[jagt]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

What I remember is that we were told that Lina put her power and divinity inside Aishia before she reincarnated. Miharu has Lina's soul while Aishia has a partial copy of her memories, her power and her divinity. Aishia is holding onto Lina's power and divinity until Miharu is ready to get them back.

Aishia also said that Rio not having his own spiritual body makes assimilation close to 100% more dangerous for him because it makes him closer to a spirit than a human. And the Dragon King had a spirit body, but Rio doesn't since he's a human and just has a soul.

We still need to know exactly how Lina was able to transfer the Dragon King's power into Aishia since, as Aishia said, the authority of a transcendental is engraved in their soul.

I'll have to read it again to see why Rio needs to assimilate with Aishia because I have some confusion about that.

Instead of continue to misremember things and keeping the conversation going in circles because of it reread the chapters 2,3 and 4 of volume 21. Aisia said very clearly herself that what it is inside her is Lina's divinity, that has the effect of allowing someone to use an authority and lessening the recoil of its use, while Miharu has Lina's soul and authotiry, and that because of not having her divinity she, unlike Rio, can't activate her authority or revover her condition of transcendental.

Aisia didn't say a word about Rio's lack of an spiritual body making the assimilation close to 100%, what she said was that she meant to assimilate close to the 100% when she did it, because, unlike in the heroes' case, Aisia has total control of the degree of assimilation. Aisia told Rio that the deeper the degree of assimilation the more similar his body will be to a spirit's and that it will get that much further away from a human one, being this reason why there is no risks for her but there are for him, because being a human makes Rio the one who is in a more unnatural state while Aisia's condition barely changes.

[DragonOsman]

Read my previous post, please. I'm trying to read the stuff again now.

I just came across this in Volume 21:

“All I know is that the Dragon King used up so much of his power, his life was in danger. Lina had also exhausted everything, and she saw a disturbing prophecy in such a state. That is why she tried to reincarnate herself and created me—all in order to return the Dragon King’s power to his reincarnated self...” Searching through her buried memories as she spoke, Aishia stared into space with unfocused eyes.

“What I don’t quite get is the part where Miharu is Lina’s reincarnation, while you’re also Lina in a way...? You said Lina created you, but...” Rio asked Aishia a new question to awaken her memories.

“Yeah... I’m a humanoid spirit that Lina created herself. Just before she reincarnated, she gave me the power the Dragon King needed to...needed to...” Aishia pressed her head into her hands as though to suppress a headache.

I'm thinking Rio has his divinity, but still needs a body that isn't that of a normal human to be able to use his transcendental powers safely; for that he needs to assimilate with Aishia, but doing so transforms him into an existence closer to a spirit because the rate of the assimilation needs to be as close to 100% as possible. And the Dragon King had both a physical body and a spiritual one, but Rio only has his physical body so it'd be dangerous for him to become a spiritual existence.

Edit: Aishia also said that a spirit can only have one spirit bond at a time. We already know Lina was able to transfer the Dragon King's power into Aishia, so it should also be possible for Aishia to transfer Lina's power and divinity to Dryas and then form a spirit bond between her and Miharu so that Miharu can regain her power and divinity as Lina. Lina must've left behind some way for Miharu to regain her power because she wants her and Rio to finish what she and the Dragon King were trying to do before they died. Even if it's not how I said, there should still be a way. And I doubt that Rio will become unable to assimilate with Aishia to use the Dragon King's power once that happens, either.

Edit2: Okay, I was partially wrong. Rio gains twice the benefit of divinity by assimilating with Aishia because she has Lina's divinity, so the burden from using his transcendent powers is reduced further than if he were to use them on his own. If he'd used them on his own, he wouldn't have died, but the burden would still have been greater. I do wonder if this means the burden would be greater even when assimilated with Aishia after Miharu has gotten back her divinity (she should regain her power after regaining her divinity), but I do believe there should be a way for Miharu to regain her power because like I said, Lina wanted her and the Dragon King's respective reincarnations to finish what they were trying to do. I hope she can regain her power in such a way that Rio would still be able to safely use his power with less burden like he can now.

But the burden should still be reduced either way because assimilating with Aishia turns him into an existence that's beyond a normal human. Aishia losing Lina's divinity shouldn't change that. But that's just my speculation so we should wait and see. I just hope these questions are answered in Volume 23.

A transcendent one's power is carved into his/her soul, but I think Aishia having been put into the Dragon King's soul somehow made her able to use his power.

[nik45]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

because like I said, Lina wanted her and the Dragon King's respective reincarnations to finish what they were trying to do. I hope she can regain her power in such a way that Rio would still be able to safely use his power with less burden like he can now.

"I’m sorry. There’s no time. He’s going to die before I can copy everything over. I have to leave everything to the two of you, one thousand years in the future.”

With a bloody hand, she drew a complex magic circle on the floor. In front of her stood a blank-eyed Aishia.

“He’s a very gentle person, so please look after him... Because I will be completely powerless when I reincarnate.”

She directed her blurry gaze to the center of the circle. There was a man lying there, on the verge of breathing his last breath. For some reason, she instinctively knew he was the Dragon King.

“...” Aishia nodded with a dazed look. At that moment, everything clicked into place. These weren’t Aishia’s memories

Here, Lina has clearly left everything to Aishia and Rio.
This is further elaborated here. When Aishia is like Lina has left her with a mission which she doesnt clearly remembers.

Aishia was trying to carry the entire burden alone. That was what the look on her face was saying. What if this time, Rio was the one pushed to the brink of death? What had happened in memories that had belonged to Lina could happen to her. Aishia looked extremely anxious as she insisted that both Rio and Miharu were different from the Dragon King and Wise God Lina.

“That’s right. I can’t imagine myself living as the Dragon King, and I don’t plan on doing so. But the same goes for you too, right? Aishia is Aishia. Your memories don’t matter.”

“Lina gave me a duty to fulfill...”

This was something she had to do. Aishia tried to shoulder that burden alone.

“Then I will help you. Let’s share the burden of what you’re trying to do,” Rio offered without any hesitation.

“But... It could be extremely dangerous. Even the powerful Dragon King was pushed to the brink of death a thousand years ago.”

“That’s why you want to do this alone. Is that what you’re saying?” Rio asked, seeing straight through Aishia’s thoughts.

“I don’t want you to die,” Aishia admitted anxiously.

At that, Rio chuckled softly. “I feel the same. I don’t want you to die either—that’s why I can’t let you go through this alone. I’m the only one who can use the Dragon King’s powers anyway, right?”

Then, he hugged Aishia back. It was an expression of his determination not to let Aishia do this alone.

Personally I dont think Lina has left a backdoor for her to regain powers. Instead she chose to pour everything what she had, to support Rio.
And in the event if Miharu manages to regain her powers. It would be something which happened because of the future deviating from what Lina saw.

[DragonOsman]

Aishia wanted to shoulder everything herself, actually. She didn't want Rio or Miharu to have to do anything. So, even if Lina did want Miharu to do something, Aishia still wouldn't agree. Rio had to convince her to let him shoulder it along with her.

And in Volume 22, at the end (IIRC), it looks like someone who might be Lina is talking to Miharu. Like how Celia heard someone's voice right as she awakened something in her that made her remember Rio and Aishia as well. And the cover for Volume 23 might be signifying that Miharu is about to regain her powers, with the image with her hair changing color.

So yeah, Lina left behind a way to allow Celia to remember everything, so why wouldn't she leave a way for her own reincarnation to regain her powers? Celia is a descendent of Lina's homunculus disciple. One reason she allowed Celia to remember may be because she wanted to use her knowledge to help Aishia and Rio, but I think she also wanted to help Miharu to regain her powers and that that's why there's a scene with a voice that could be hers speaking to Miharu. Though I could be recalling a scene where she sees a dream where Lina's saying something to her.

Edit: May or may not be Lina. I was talking about this: Volume 22 Epilogue:

Miharu was seeing a dream, in her sleeping conscience Miharu knew she was in a dream, then she felt something nostalgic, a very nostalgic feeling, this is, this feeling is, who is that, Miharu tilts her head inside her dream, there is nothing in her field of vision, her field of vision is completely white, then someone tells to Miharu that it isn’t a dream. Miharu is surprised, the voice tells her again that it isn’t a dream. The voice tells Miharu that as scheduled 'that girl' is close by, allowing the unknown voice to interfere with Miharu's consciousness, but there is no time so she has to listen well. Miharu asks the voice’s owner their identity, but they don’t answer, the voice tells Miharu that one day she will be asked to make a decision, an important one, that she will have a very important decision forced on her, that at that time she will think the choice is obviously a bad choice, that she will feel that that choice is absolutely a mistake. Miharu asks the voice what it is saying. The voice tells Miharu that it strongly recommends the choice that she will think it is absolutely wrong, then the voice disappears. In exchange of it now Miharu hears a familiar masculine voice, the voice greets her, Miharu thinks the voice belongs to … the voice tells her that they met again. Then Miharu wakes up with an scared voice, she quickly rises the upper half of her body in her dark room, she asks herself why, she feels like she heard Takahisa’s voice. Miharu looks with fear around the room but she just sees Aki sleeping in the bed next to hers. Miharu pats her chest while sighing with relief and goes back to sleep.

The voice that speaks to Miharu in the dream could really be Lina's. And the voice at the end of the dream, that she thought was Takatrash's, might be Rio's which she wouldn't be able to recognize as his anyway since she doesn't remember him.

[ivaannom]

The beautiful thorn princess has a dream of the prince

[jagt]

Originally Posted by ivaannom

The beautiful thorn princess has a dream of the prince

By the looks of it it seems that Satsuki got to be the sleeping beauty.

[hihoperorin]

Originally Posted by ivaannom

The beautiful thorn princess has a dream of the prince

That's... Satsuki huh, I mean I thought it couldn't be anyone but her but Riv sure transcended her in a different way, she's almost a different person, heck I even doubted if that's Lina's original look, not that I'm complaining tho.