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Old 2012-07-02, 10:54   Link #5101
Ithekro
Gamilas Falls
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Also remember that some are not racist, but are prejudice.
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Old 2012-07-03, 11:44   Link #5102
Vexx
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I'm really liking these guys (Montana governor (D) and lt. governor (R) )

http://veracitystew.com/2012/06/26/s...tizens-united/
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Old 2012-07-03, 11:47   Link #5103
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm really liking these guys (Montana governor (D) and lt. governor (R) )

http://veracitystew.com/2012/06/26/s...tizens-united/
so when does the national republican party take back their decoder ring form the LG?
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Old 2012-07-03, 11:57   Link #5104
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
so when does the national republican party take back their decoder ring form the LG?
as soon as they realize Montaņa is part of the USA

Last edited by mangamuscle; 2012-07-03 at 12:22.
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Old 2012-07-03, 12:18   Link #5105
Autumn Demon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana ballot initiative I-166
(e) with the infusion of unlimited corporate money in support of or opposition to a targeted candidate, the average citizen candidate in Montana would be unable to compete against the corporate-sponsored candidate, and Montana citizens, who for over 100 years have made their modest election contributions meaningfully count, would be effectively shut out of the process; and
The average citizen candidate has never been able to compete in elections. You need money to win an election. Generally, candidates who win their party nomination have the (financial) backing of the party establishment. Previously only the super rich had a chance of upsetting the establishment candidate. With no limit on campaign spending the establishment faces more competition.
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Old 2012-07-03, 14:40   Link #5106
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn Demon View Post
The average citizen candidate has never been able to compete in elections. You need money to win an election. Generally, candidates who win their party nomination have the (financial) backing of the party establishment. Previously only the super rich had a chance of upsetting the establishment candidate. With no limit on campaign spending the establishment faces more competition.
Um... that's pretty much completely inverted to what is actually happening in the US, especially in local elections where "average citizens" often can and do win elections, sometimes with support only from the "$5-$25 donor" inputs.

Now we're seeing millions of dollars being pumped into local elections from billionaires, corporations, and super-PACs, tripping one key election to flip an entire state for instance. Stopping the "$$=speech", "corp=people", and "unlimited $$" is pretty much the only way to keep grassroots from becoming extinct and to keep puppets-of-the-robber-baron from dominating the entire spectrum of elections in the US.

Basically, we're looking at a couple of hundred people in the US spending *billions of dollars* to affect every single key election in the US to their "vision of plutocracy".
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Old 2012-07-03, 15:36   Link #5107
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm really liking these guys (Montana governor (D) and lt. governor (R) )

http://veracitystew.com/2012/06/26/s...tizens-united/
*adds these two to "favorite politician list" along with Wyden*
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Old 2012-07-04, 12:20   Link #5108
Autumn Demon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Um... that's pretty much completely inverted to what is actually happening in the US, especially in local elections where "average citizens" often can and do win elections, sometimes with support only from the "$5-$25 donor" inputs.

Now we're seeing millions of dollars being pumped into local elections from billionaires, corporations, and super-PACs, tripping one key election to flip an entire state for instance. Stopping the "$$=speech", "corp=people", and "unlimited $$" is pretty much the only way to keep grassroots from becoming extinct and to keep puppets-of-the-robber-baron from dominating the entire spectrum of elections in the US.

Basically, we're looking at a couple of hundred people in the US spending *billions of dollars* to affect every single key election in the US to their "vision of plutocracy".
The rich will always have sway over politicians, but under McCain-Feingold the government went after grassroots organizations for not properly adhering to campaign-finance laws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Economist
Big companies can hire lawyers to help their PACs find their way through the maze, but the little guys get lost. And some states have tried to use campaign-finance laws to stifle debate. In Washington state, prosecutors claimed that a friendly discussion of an anti-tax campaign on a radio show was a political donation that the campaigners should have declared. In Colorado, a group of homeowners protesting a plan to incorporate their neighbourhood into a nearby town were sued for displaying yard signs without registering as a PAC. Free-speech advocates won these cases, but they needed lawyers to do so.
http://www.economist.com/node/14416613

And an amendment to the constitution that would allow government to decide what is and isn't political speech would be a bad idea.
http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech...k-constitution

I don't really care how campaigns are financed when the winner is always predetermined: a Republican or a Democrat. I would rather see effort put into changing the constitution's electoral system.
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:11   Link #5109
ganbaru
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John Boehner: Voters Need Not Love Mitt Romney
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/58_1/...-215934-1.html
Quote:
... But at a June 30 fundraiser in Wheeling, W.Va., Speaker John Boehner offered a surprisingly frank assessment of the dynamic that surprised some in the audience.

Aside from Romney’s “friends, relatives and fellow Mormons,” Boehner said, most people will be motivated to vote for him in opposition to Obama.

The Ohio Republican made the remarks when an unidentified woman asked during a question-and-answer session: “Can you make me love Mitt Romney?”

“No,” Boehner said. “Listen, we’re just politicians. I wasn’t elected to play God. The American people probably aren’t going to fall in love with Mitt Romney. I’ll tell you this: 95 percent of the people that show up to vote in November are going to show up in that voting booth, and they are going to vote for or against Barack Obama.
For once, he's probably right.
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:26   Link #5110
Ithekro
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That...was surprisingly honest.
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:40   Link #5111
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That...was surprisingly honest.
I am tempt to add ''especialy from him'' or ''especialy from a republican'' but I can't choose which one is the closest of the true .
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Old 2012-07-07, 14:58   Link #5112
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That...was surprisingly honest.
since their priority is winning above all, there are some truths they cannot overlook and that was one of them, they long for the days of bush jr. who was dumb as a block, but knew how to make part of them vote for him and not just against the opposition.
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Old 2012-07-07, 20:33   Link #5113
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
That...was surprisingly honest.
At this point, I am starting to think he thinks he is only saying what his supporters already believe.

This is sort of why I no longer care about the outcome of this election as much. I know I don't need to tell the GOP that they have a horrible candidate, because I know that THEY know. What is happening is that the GOP genuinely don't care that they are voting for a bad Presidential candidate.

Since the GOP are making an informed choice, who am I to stop them? If more than 50% of the voters come election night genuinely WANT a bad president deliberately, then that's what they will get. Isn't democracy wonderful?
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Old 2012-07-07, 23:03   Link #5114
GDB
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
If more than 50% of the electoral college voters
Fixed that for you. Remember, population as a whole has no bearing on electoral votes cast, and even those the college is supposed to represent don't technically have the final say in how they use those votes.
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Old 2012-07-08, 02:02   Link #5115
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Fixed that for you. Remember, population as a whole has no bearing on electoral votes cast, and even those the college is supposed to represent don't technically have the final say in how they use those votes.
If you want to be picky, we can say "more than 50% of the Swing State voters". But at that point it would make people depressed because then you realised how far away from democratic the system is.
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Old 2012-07-08, 04:54   Link #5116
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
If you want to be picky, we can say "more than 50% of the Swing State voters". But at that point it would make people depressed because then you realised how far away from democratic the system is.
I would say that if the discution go op to that point, there's chance than a good part of the one participating in already realised that fact.
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Old 2012-07-08, 05:51   Link #5117
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I would say that if the discution go op to that point, there's chance than a good part of the one participating in already realised that fact.
I am just so glad that in Australia I can vote 3rd party without wasting my vote. Preferential system for the win. And the two major parties can actually SEE how many people who voted them as 2nd choice, vote 3rd party as 1st choice. This means the major parties can determine how many votes are up for grabs if they actually change their stance to suit people like me. It entices them to notice us.
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Old 2012-07-08, 10:39   Link #5118
Vexx
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More corruption of the election process thanks to SCOTUS rulings on Citizens United, etc.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/08/us...usinesses.html

I wonder how many corporations bury their political bribery deep in their required financial reports to their stockholders? If my dividends from a company sucked and I found out the company had poured a billion dollars into political causes the CEO got horny over... the pitchforks and torches would come out.

<sics the zombie undead Theodore Roosevelt on them>
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Last edited by Vexx; 2012-07-08 at 11:33.
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Old 2012-07-08, 10:51   Link #5119
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I wonder how many corporations bury their political bribery deep in their required financial reports to their stockholders? If my dividends from a company sucked and I found out the company had poured a billion dollars into political causes the CEO got horny over... the pitchforks and torches would come out.
For that you would need to find out than they did it; they are moe than likely to be abble to hide it.
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Old 2012-07-08, 11:08   Link #5120
Urzu 7
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One day, this corrupt, convoluted, messed up "democracy" is going to come crashing down on us because fools cared more about power than actually working for the greater good of America. And then what? People are ruining America because instead of working out their differences the best they can, like intelligent, decent people, everybody thinks "Our way or no way. Period".
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