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Old 2009-10-11, 14:42   Link #1801
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Don't worry it's alright ^^

But by "I agree with Miss Narona" mean that I agree with your post so with the study And My personal comment is that I think it's true.
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Old 2009-10-11, 14:50   Link #1802
Cinocard
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From a psychological viewpoint, as Narona said, "feelings and love are more important to women than to men." IMO, there are several things to note about it.

-When men need to have a feeling of success, domination, violence, women need a feeling of love. And pain. Yes, it goes both way, for many women. They seek to have strong mutual emotion in human interaction, regardless of it being positive and negative. They purely desire to be emotionally powerful, that's why they more likely risk it and like someone who just isn't going to return the feelings. In short, they like pain as much as love.

-Most experts agree men instinct is to dominate, and women instinct is to share. Consequently, a man dates women who love him and only him, and a woman dates men whom she loves.

-Genetically, men seek to mate, with as many as possible. Unconsciously, they find women who love them to ensure their successor being taken care of in the future. Women, they also unconsciously want to bear a child with the best gene, aka the gene of the one they fall in love with.

-When talking about marriage, men is a polygamy creature. Even now, our society just happens to give men overwhelming advantage after a divorce. They see no risk in marrying someone who doesn't love them. If it's mating, they can find a mistress who does. But women is monogamy. They seek stability, and they want to marry someone they love, and love them in return. So at a point in life women will stop taking risk and seek someone who truly love them to marry.

That's why it's easy to confess, but difficult to propose to women

Last edited by Cinocard; 2009-10-11 at 15:18.
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Old 2009-10-11, 14:59   Link #1803
Shinoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Strangely, if you're talking about couples' behaviors, here it's the opposite, it happens more to girls than guys. A study showed that feelings and love are more important to women than to men. So usually, most women give/do more for the relationship
You're on a different page

And on the other men valuing sex more, Two responses
1. Sky is Blue, Grass is Green, Men love Sex
2. Lots of women lying to themselves, Should give sex with both sexes allot less thought but more action. Half joking about this, half not. From my own experience, the more thought you put into it. The less enjoyable the subject becomes. If you're always trying make it out to be this wonderful and perfect moment. You're bound to be disappointed constantly. But that's just my 2 cents on it, Either treat it as a big deal or don't.

Life is so easy when you're easy and Bi
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Last edited by Shinoto; 2009-10-11 at 15:11.
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Old 2009-10-11, 14:59   Link #1804
Splitpersonality
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Quote:
But women is monogamy. They seek stability, and they want to marry someone they love, and love them in return.
Hey, I want that too! :P
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Old 2009-10-11, 15:06   Link #1805
Narona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
-When talking about marriage, men is a polygamy creature. Even now, our society just happens to give men overwhelming advantage after a divorce. They see no risk in marrying someone who doesn't love them. If it's mating, they can find a mistress who does. But women is monogamy. They seek stability, and they want to marry someone they love, and love them in return. So at a point in life women will stop taking risk and seek someone who truly love them to marry.

That's why it's easy to confess, but difficult to propose to women
I wonder how long this could be said. IIRC, one of the two persons who did the study that I was talking about said (for the best or the worse, depending on your pov on this matter) in a debate that more and more women act (have the same sexual behaviors as) like men (she did give me the feeling to be pleased by that. Personal comment: I don't see that as fabulous)
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Old 2009-10-11, 15:11   Link #1806
Splitpersonality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I wonder how long this could be said. IIRC, one of the two persons who did the study that I was talking about said (for the best or the worse, depending on your pov on this matter) in a debate that more and more women act (have the same sexual behaviors as) like men (she did give me the feeling to be pleased by that. Personal comment: I don't see that as fabulous)

Well it seems as if he's coming from a biological/evolutionary psychology area, in which everything he said has made sense.

Culturally however there has been a very widespread, sort of, frankness about sex and sexual relationships in this century and earlier. Though our biological imperatives might tell us one thing, yes there are men looking for monogamy and can "fight their urges" for other women and there are certainly women who can ignore their child-bearing imperatives in favor of having open sex with more than one man.

It's an interesting juxtaposition, the one between the different psychological branches of thought. IIRC the neuro-biological and genetic side doesn't really leave much room for "the human side" of psychology, but maybe that's just how I've seen it.
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Old 2009-10-11, 15:50   Link #1807
Cinocard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
I wonder how long this could be said. IIRC, one of the two persons who did the study that I was talking about said (for the best or the worse, depending on your pov on this matter) in a debate that more and more women act (have the same sexual behaviors as) like men (she did give me the feeling to be pleased by that. Personal comment: I don't see that as fabulous)
Oh, a girl having sex with a guy, and sharing a child with him is totally different. It actually has a lot to do with social aspect. Women lose more in a divorce, so it's logical for them to be more careful with a marriage. You surely have been exposed to the thought of: "having fun as much as we can now, since we can't anymore once we marry?"

If you think about it, it's a sad paradox for women. Many working women don't want to settle down early with a marriage. But as they become older, a marriage would trade with a greater career. Their motherly instinct grows, yet they also find it harder and harder for them to be in a love with their age.

Men? 25,30,35,40... They virtually can get into a marriage and get out of it just as easily, and get into another marriage again.

Polygamy may have been banned by law, but serial monogamy just isn't.
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Old 2009-10-11, 17:12   Link #1808
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoto View Post
I mean, when I start to hear that crap about how she is so wonderful, how she changed me, how I'm a new man because of her, and all that jazz. It's sounds like you are just pinning your life on her. No one likes someone who can't stand on their own two feet.
It's true that your chances of forming a strong relationship are much improved when you're stable as an individual. In fact, one could argue that being stable on your own is a prerequisite for being able to form a stable, long-lasting, productive relationship.

I take issue with your rough demeanor. Splitpersonality seems to be a sensitive, thoughtful guy, perhaps to a fault. What he's writing isn't pathetic; I find it understandable. It isn't his fault and he shouldn't be blaming himself right now, but I don't think he should reject those types of thoughts entirely. Those sorts of feelings are what keep you humble enough in a relationship to be able to admit that you might be wrong and that you need to make changes. They're good feelings - you just need to make sure that who you pair up with also has those sorts of feelings, or else you'll be ripe for abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinoto View Post
Truth is, This happens to almost every guy. They are going to like someone who just isn't going to return the feelings. And they are going to feel like it's their fault. Now you either take this as a learning experience, or you go into a pathetic slump and end up wasting allot of time whining over her.
I always thought that "guy feeling like it's his own fault" for being rejected only happened to people like "us" (those who think too much, may be humble, etc.). Most guys either have or put up a show of having enough confidence that you could power a city with it - if a girl rejects him, then she either can't see how great he was or she was trash anyway (in the guy's opinion). It's a stereotype I've been exposed to, anyway - maybe you're from an area where sensitivity is a bit more readily available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
-Genetically, men seek to mate, with as many as possible. Unconsciously, they find women who love them to ensure their successor being taken care of in the future. Women, they also unconsciously want to bear a child with the best gene, aka the gene of the one they fall in love with.
This is passed around as common knowledge but it's completely unfounded. There is no "polygamy gene" or "polygamy hormone" - it's stereotyped that men have more difficulty with fidelity than women, but I certainly hear about both happening with a high frequency. I'm very wary of social studies and surveys, but do you happen to have one to draw upon to support that statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
That's why it's easy to confess, but difficult to propose to women
Speak for yourself!
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Old 2009-10-11, 17:25   Link #1809
Ricky Controversy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
This is passed around as common knowledge but it's completely unfounded. There is no "polygamy gene" or "polygamy hormone" - it's stereotyped that men have more difficulty with fidelity than women, but I certainly hear about both happening with a high frequency. I'm very wary of social studies and surveys, but do you happen to have one to draw upon to support that statement?
It's not that the stereotype is necessarily 'unfounded', simply that the foundation from which it is drawn actually points to an entirely different conclusion. The reason men have historically been branded as less capable of fidelity is because it has traditionally been both more possible and more socially acceptable for men to stray, especially in Western culture.

It's simply one more aspect of discrimination against women throughout history. Traditionally, women were really viewed more as property of men than as actual people, and so while they were expected to solely 'belong' to that man, the man conversely had no obligation to treat his partner faithfully: she's just a possession in his mind, after all. Women were usually advised by their elders and peers to turn a blind eye to the man's infidelity because he controlled all the financial assets, so it was generally considered unwise to challenge unless he was suddenly squandering all that money on other women. Security was the goal of marriage in the West for centuries.

So no, men aren't actually predisposed towards infidelity in any special way versus women, they've just been given tacit approval by society for all this time.
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Old 2009-10-11, 17:45   Link #1810
K_Babyy
Fullmetal Heart
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Age: 33
I just have to say that being in love is the most beautiful feeling in the world, but at times, it can be nothing but pure hell.

My boyfriend and I have been together for 2 and a half years now and we've been through pretty much everything that a couple could possibly go through. We had a baby, she's 6 months old now and we consider her the best thing that's ever happened to us. My mother hates him, my father doesn't think he's right for me. He's adopted, so I know nothing about his biological family besides the fact that they abused him, so I hate his parents deeply. Back when we were in high school, I just graduated in June and he graduated back in 08, everyone talked about us, making up lies that he cheated or I cheated, because they either wanted to be with one of us, or just couldn't stand us being together. There's just way too many things to even begin talking about that has gone wrong in our relationship, but the entire time, we never lost sight of our future. We are in love, still in love, and have made it through hell together.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, once you find that true love, when you know it's real, never give up on him/her, never let go. If you are meant to be together in the end, then you will be, no matter what.
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Old 2009-10-11, 18:03   Link #1811
Cinocard
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Quote:
My boyfriend and I have been together for 2 and a half years now and we've been through pretty much everything that a couple could possibly go through. We had a baby, she's 6 months old now and we consider her the best thing that's ever happened to us. My mother hates him, my father doesn't think he's right for me. He's adopted, so I know nothing about his biological family besides the fact that they abused him, so I hate his parents deeply. Back when we were in high school, I just graduated in June and he graduated back in 08, everyone talked about us, making up lies that he cheated or I cheated, because they either wanted to be with one of us, or just couldn't stand us being together. There's just way too many things to even begin talking about that has gone wrong in our relationship, but the entire time, we never lost sight of our future. We are in love, still in love, and have made it through hell together.
Congratulation for being blessed with love. I hope things sail smoothly with your new family, and your parents will change their mind about your partner if you keep being happy

Quote:
This is passed around as common knowledge but it's completely unfounded. There is no "polygamy gene" or "polygamy hormone" - it's stereotyped that men have more difficulty with fidelity than women, but I certainly hear about both happening with a high frequency. I'm very wary of social studies and surveys, but do you happen to have one to draw upon to support that statement?
I'm positive there are loads of research about that, but I doubt they have ever come to a definite conclusion. Genetic is a difficult and controversial topic, after all. And no one in the field wants to assert anything, since they would be labeled as "discriminative."

But if it's not true at genetic level, IMO it's still quite true at social level. We male may want our kids to be carefully taken care of, but just hardly want to take care of the kids ourselves

Quote:
Speak for yourself!
Yeah, marriage proposol is just "nuh uh" to them. "You gotta show me your love first." Cmon, if proposing is not love, I don't know what is
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Old 2009-10-11, 18:21   Link #1812
K_Babyy
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Age: 33
@Cinocard

Thank you very much! We're trying to keep our heads up!
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Old 2009-10-11, 18:24   Link #1813
RadiantBeam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_Babyy View Post
I just have to say that being in love is the most beautiful feeling in the world, but at times, it can be nothing but pure hell.

My boyfriend and I have been together for 2 and a half years now and we've been through pretty much everything that a couple could possibly go through. We had a baby, she's 6 months old now and we consider her the best thing that's ever happened to us. My mother hates him, my father doesn't think he's right for me. He's adopted, so I know nothing about his biological family besides the fact that they abused him, so I hate his parents deeply. Back when we were in high school, I just graduated in June and he graduated back in 08, everyone talked about us, making up lies that he cheated or I cheated, because they either wanted to be with one of us, or just couldn't stand us being together. There's just way too many things to even begin talking about that has gone wrong in our relationship, but the entire time, we never lost sight of our future. We are in love, still in love, and have made it through hell together.
Sweet to hear things are working out for you, mostly at least. ^^ Hope everything goes smoothly with your baby, and that in time your parents can accept him for who he is and what he means to you.
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Old 2009-10-11, 18:28   Link #1814
K_Babyy
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Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Sweet to hear things are working out for you, mostly at least. ^^ Hope everything goes smoothly with your baby, and that in time your parents can accept him for who he is and what he means to you.
Thank you, I really hope they do someday. My dad seems to be getting better about it since Casey(my bf) has been there for our daughter since day 1. Mom, on the other hand, won't give in.
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Old 2009-10-11, 19:54   Link #1815
Quzor
It's the year 3030...
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
This is passed around as common knowledge but it's completely unfounded. There is no "polygamy gene" or "polygamy hormone" - it's stereotyped that men have more difficulty with fidelity than women, but I certainly hear about both happening with a high frequency. I'm very wary of social studies and surveys, but do you happen to have one to draw upon to support that statement?
Interestingly enough, I'm reading a book about this very subject; The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins. Whether you like him or not (most people have a pretty definitive viewpoint about him), the book is quite interesting.

The book focuses largely, in certain chapters, on the "resource cost" of reproduction for both sexes. Interesting enough, Dawkins suggests that it would be beneficial for men and women to mate with as many people as possible, so as to give better chance of their genes progressing into the next generation. However, he suggests that this may be easier for men to do, than for women.

I won't go into detail, but he posits that women have a genetic predisposition towards caring for their young because, on a genetic level, they've already committed more to the offspring than the male has. Eggs are the bigger of the two reproductive cells, and so provides more nutrients, or "resources", to the offspring. Because of this, women have a genetic need to make their mate contribute equal resources elsewhere, so that he will have just as much to lose by not caring for the offspring as she currently does.

I realize it's not a "study," and I can't speak for it's validity, but it does offer some interesting insight as to whether polygamy is a genetic predisposition more common to men than women. Take it for whatever you will; it's just another book by another guy.
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Old 2009-10-11, 20:39   Link #1816
Cinocard
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I sure like Richard Dawkins' works, but somehow his face is one that make people just want to smash it when he smiles

Anyway, The selfish gene is but just another in a basket trying to identify the reason why polygamy still underlies our society. The important fact is: polygamy exists. An male still seek a polygamy in one way or another.

Quote:
Thank you, I really hope they do someday. My dad seems to be getting better about it since Casey(my bf) has been there for our daughter since day 1. Mom, on the other hand, won't give in.
Mommy does not give in easily, as suddenly out of nowhere appeared a freaktard imprudent teenager that ruined her dear daughter's future that she had always envisioned since she carried her in the womb. She loves you, and think she's the one who loves you the most in the world, so it's hard to accept that a future where you have to "sacrifice" for Casey can be better than what she had in mind for you. Just constantly remind her of the fact that you are being happy. I ensure you, it is not just a "hope," but a fact that takes time but will definitely happen
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Old 2009-10-11, 21:06   Link #1817
K_Babyy
Fullmetal Heart
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Mommy does not give in easily, as suddenly out of nowhere appeared a freaktard imprudent teenager that ruined her dear daughter's future that she had always envisioned since she carried her in the womb. She loves you, and think she's the one who loves you the most in the world, so it's hard to accept that a future where you have to "sacrifice" for Casey can be better than what she had in mind for you. Just constantly remind her of the fact that you are being happy. I ensure you, it is not just a "hope," but a fact that takes time but will definitely happen
Yea, I understand that. I would probably feel the same way my mom does if that happened to my little girl. I love her so much and want nothing but the best for her.
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Old 2009-10-11, 21:44   Link #1818
RadiantBeam
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Originally Posted by K_Babyy View Post
Yea, I understand that. I would probably feel the same way my mom does if that happened to my little girl. I love her so much and want nothing but the best for her.
No one loves you quite like your mother. ^^

Just give her time. She'll come around eventually.
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:31   Link #1819
Throne Invader
Protecting the Throne
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Asia Tour
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quzor View Post
Interestingly enough, I'm reading a book about this very subject; The Selfish Gene, by Richard Dawkins. Whether you like him or not (most people have a pretty definitive viewpoint about him), the book is quite interesting.

The book focuses largely, in certain chapters, on the "resource cost" of reproduction for both sexes. Interesting enough, Dawkins suggests that it would be beneficial for men and women to mate with as many people as possible, so as to give better chance of their genes progressing into the next generation. However, he suggests that this may be easier for men to do, than for women.

I won't go into detail, but he posits that women have a genetic predisposition towards caring for their young because, on a genetic level, they've already committed more to the offspring than the male has. Eggs are the bigger of the two reproductive cells, and so provides more nutrients, or "resources", to the offspring. Because of this, women have a genetic need to make their mate contribute equal resources elsewhere, so that he will have just as much to lose by not caring for the offspring as she currently does.

I realize it's not a "study," and I can't speak for it's validity, but it does offer some interesting insight as to whether polygamy is a genetic predisposition more common to men than women. Take it for whatever you will; it's just another book by another guy.
I for one strongly disagree with his view point. I certainly wouldn't want my future husband going around impregnating other women And I think the risk of getting STDs would be nice too
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Old 2009-10-12, 00:37   Link #1820
Throne Invader
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Originally Posted by Cinocard View Post
Yeah, marriage proposol is just "nuh uh" to them. "You gotta show me your love first." Cmon, if proposing is not love, I don't know what is
Not everyone takes marriage seriously. There are better chances of ensuring that a marriage would be successful if there is love first.
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