Yaoi vs Yuri Discussion!

[Midonin]

Hypothetical. If that situation was gender reversed - ie. a male protagonist having to decide between a girl and another male (I suspect that may actually be happening in MM!), how would you react?

[NoemiChan]

Hmmmm... that would be..... l'll choose the girl... yow!

If the glesbian likes me then she isn't a lesbian afterall... l think...

Are you a girl? I'm sinle you know...

[Midonin]

No, I'm not a girl. I'm a person who delights in challenging perspectives.

[NoemiChan]

Damn... l love girls who likes to argue... KAwai

[Midonin]

What part of "I am not a girl" did you not get?

[NoemiChan]

I meant Damn...(HE ISNT A GIRL)... blah blah

[Triple_R]

The problem I see with yaoi and yuri in anime (this is probably not as much an issue with manga, though) is that the two tend to be played a lot for laughs, or have a certain token-ism about it.

When yaoi shows up as a secondary element in animes that are not outright devoted to yaoi, it tends to be through one specific character who acts as a gay stereotype, and this is done to illicit laughs from the audience (often by having a heterosexual male character be flamboyantly hit on by him).

A good fairly recent example of this is Leeron Littner from Gurren Lagann.

Now, I genuinely like Leeron. He's a pretty well-rounded character in his own right, and is a productive member of Dai-Gurren. But his homosexuality (not sure if it's explicitly confirmed that he's gay, but it's certainly heavily hinted at) is never really taken seriously. Now, sometimes such homosexuality in anime characters is taken a bit more seriously, but when it is, it tends to result in characters like Creed from Black Cat, and Papillon from Buso Renkin.

Both of these guys are very flamboyant, borderline insane, major villains. In both cases, they have
somewhat-to-very unhealthy obsessions with the main male protagonist. In comparison, at least Leeron is very well-adjusted.

So, yaoi characters in non-yaoi specific animes tend to either be comedy relief, or insane villains. Combine that with how gay male characters tend to be all alone in their animes (in the sense that there's rarely another gay male character of note in the anime), and you get a situation where actual gay relationships are not really portrayed in a healthy and serious light.

Now, as a straight man, I don't particularly care about this, but I find it to be a little bit disconcerting. If nothing else, it seems a bit unrealistic for just one character out of a large cast to be a gay male - i.e. wouldn't the gay male in question want to be around other gay males?


As for yuri... again, even though I'm a straight man, I have to agree with Synaesthetic.

It would be nice to see a yuri relationship played straight for a change (pun intended ).

In other words, it would be nice to see a lesbian relationship portrayed in a more realistic and solidly developed manner, and not merely played for laughs or mildly hinted at. I'm thinking of maybe the lesbian equivalent of one of the two main heterosexual relationships in Kimi ga Nozomu Eien.

[Hooves]

Now, as a straight man, I don't particularly care about this, but I find it to be a little bit disconcerting. If nothing else, it seems a bit unrealistic for just one character out of a large cast to be a gay male - i.e. wouldn't the gay male in question want to be around other gay males?

Well... It could just be the fact that there isnt that many gay males in the large cast for that certain male to be around with? If they went and hung out with other gay males outside the anime (or not part of the anime characters) then they wont be appearing very often

[NoemiChan]

Shoujo sect.... hmmm... as for hentai its lame.... it doenst affect me even for a moment... talking about things while doing sex... ? thats shoujo sect....

[Syntron]

There is also the fact that some yuri relationships are very well hidden in a larger het context. One example i can think of is Clannad (both seasons). There is one "couple" that has barely any screentime, but when the credits roll and show all the main characters life, they suddenly get a scene. Maybe you know who im talking about. That would be a yuri thats tackled in a "realistic" way: Stay low profile and hope no one notices how gay they are ^^

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Syntron

One example i can think of is Clannad (both seasons). There is one "couple" that has barely any screentime, but when the credits roll and show all the main characters life, they suddenly get a scene. Maybe you know who im talking about.

Hey, hey.... What episode???

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Syntron

There is also the fact that some yuri relationships are very well hidden in a larger het context. One example i can think of is Clannad (both seasons). There is one "couple" that has barely any screentime, but when the credits roll and show all the main characters life, they suddenly get a scene. Maybe you know who im talking about. That would be a yuri thats tackled in a "realistic" way: Stay low profile and hope no one notices how gay they are ^^

My interest is piqued as well.

Can you recall what episode this is in? Or... is it part of the ED of one of the two seasons of Clannad?

[Syntron]

Well i dont want to ruin your memories of clannad as the most het story ever told, but i guess ill do it anyway. Are you ready for the truth?

Spoiler for Ep 15: Lets join a club together!:

Clannads story really kicks off when Nagisa needs a club advisor and asks the Choir club if she can steal theirs.

In Ep15 we meet Sugisaka who actively refuses, and even threatens to hurt Nagisa if she tries to establish the Theater Club. Youhei, Tomoya and Nagisa eventually confront her after school. Sugisaka later explains that Rie used to play the violin well when she was little, but got into an accident. She couldn't play the violin well ever since. When Rie went to high school, she and her friends formed the Choir Club since Rie always looked lonely, and because Rie could still sing.
They are shown several times together during the first season, eg at the basketball game. So in a nutshell: Sugisaka will kill you if you make Rie sad.

Spoiler for Afterstory ED: Lets hold hands!:

The Afterstory ED lines up all the characters with important plot points. It also tries to sneak in Rie and Sugisaka, hoping no one notices them inbetween all the distracting sidecharacters:

Spoiler for Ep AS14: Lets work together!:

The afterstory focuses on Tomoya and Nagisa. I dont know why, their story is not that important. But it also brings back some of the more important cast. For example Rie and Sugisaka. They decided to work together in a restaurant, so they could share more time. Nagisa works there too so the audience is sufficiently distracted by her antics (AS ep14 14min).

Spoiler for Ep AS22: Lets live together!:

Episode 22 of the Afterstory shows all the imporatant cast members five years from now ( 12-18min), while the IN Song "Chiisana Tenohira" by eufonius plays: Nagisa and Tomoya beeing happy, Kyou in the Kindergarten, Ryou in a Hospital as Nourse, Tomoyo somewhere looking into the distance, Kotomi driving off into the sunset, Rie and Sugisaka living together. And so... wait what?

So when everyone has gone their seperate ways, these two stick together, rooming together, probably sharing a big bed. You know. Like Nanoha and Fate.

Spoiler for conclusion:

Clannad is a carefully crafted story of friendship turning into love, spanning four seasons. Just ignore the entire secondary cast of Tomoya, Nagisa and their overdramatic sidestory.

Happy yuri end!



FIN

[Triple_R]

Syntron - Thanks for that. Very good attention to detail there!

Yes, I agree with you, that this is a realistic yuri relationship.

[Kotohono]

I had a feeling it was those two characters you were referring to after you described it the first post, but for the life of me I couldn't remember or find either of their names .

Though I didn't catch their to final scenes in AS that showed it being more sure that's what their relationship is indeed, Syntron, you have a good eyes to notice all that .

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

I had a feeling it was those two characters you were referring to after you described it the first post, but for the life of me I couldn't remember or find either of their names .

Though I didn't catch their to final scenes in AS that showed it being more sure that's what their relationship is indeed, Syntron, you have a good eyes to notice all that .

Indeed, in Afterstory, the side characters are mostly just cut out, leaving room for the main characters.. but indeed, nice eyes Syntron I never found them out since I was looking for other people. But the last tag does conclude their relationship with them living together after being together for more then however long it took. So many examples of the Yuri but never found it

[synaesthetic]

@Syntron: That is awesome. I commend you for finding yuri where I could not!

... they are so cute together.

[NoemiChan]

yes l was right, but they're just very,close, best friends. Its common to see two girls holding hands. ( seeing two guys makes me laugh though l often see that knowing they are straight).

...your a keen observer though

[Abashi]

I looked up "location: california" "yuri" "anime"
and compared it to "location: texas" "yuri" "anime"

and absolutely NOBODY HERE likes yuri

also on facebook and youtube, yuri fans never come from California

why is this?

[Gin]

I'm from California and I like yuri, don't make bold statements like that.