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Old 2009-07-19, 18:47   Link #421
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by ferthepoet View Post
Just finished reading Umineko episode 2 as well as episode 2 tea party and ???

and I have the following observations:

1. Have anyone else noticed that in the tips Kumazawa is not described as furniture created by Kinzo as Shannon, Kanon and Genji are...... I think there might be some significance to this

2. I really hope that the explanation is not allucinations.... that would suck, I think the magic scenes are just Beato showing Batler how she would have done it with magic, much like she did in the tea party of epi one

3. Beatrice said Battler was incompetent in red which leads me believe that Kyrie. who seems to be a superior detective than Battler, surviving the first twilight is essential for defeating Beatrice, I think Bernkastel would eventually cause this to happen in order to make the game more even.

4. Can anyone explain if the portrait of Jessica-Beatrice, the beatrice with school girl jacket that looks similar to Jessica clothes is real.. Iīm really confused about this 2 portraits.

5. Am I the only one who finds some religious subtext to Umineko

6. Am I the only one bothered that Battler does not even once think about Ange during Episode 1 and 2...... any normal person would have been thinking aobut how difficult it would be to tell her her parents are dead or at least how his life is screwed becuase he would have now to be parent to her.....
1) I didn't notice but I guess there's some sense in it. Kumasawa never referred at herself as furniture. Shannon and Kanon are fukuin servants, and in that respect they were brought up by Kinzo himself. There must be probably a code of conduct and rules (to the limit of brainwashing) that make them think they are furniture, and that must have been done in accordance to Kinzo's orders. Genji's past is unlcear, but it appears he served Kinzo since a long time, unlike Kumasawa whose family is in niijima.

2) We don't have a clue, but most people believe that the in the end Battler was able to see magic only because he was drunk.

3) Who knows... anyway being incompetent is not a permanent status. Battler was certainly incompetent when Beatrice said that, but he can improve.

4) Again there's no fact here, but most people believe the portrait doesn't "really" changes.

5) I think there's only the usual thing you see in many anime, just a few references here and there.

6) Not only him. Pretty much everyone acts as if Ange doesn't exist. There are only two mentions of her from the people who go to Rokkenjima. One is from Eva on the airport scene, the other one is from Kyrie and Rosa while they drink tea in the afternoon of October4.
There are some odd quotes that are pretty disturbing imho. In one of them Jessica says that "the cousins are finally all gathered together", and in another one everyone agrees that this is the most funny family meeting in six years because Battler is there. I.E. Battler -> Ange.
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Old 2009-07-19, 18:50   Link #422
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Who cares about Ange anyway~ she is such a sidecharacter xD
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Old 2009-07-19, 19:17   Link #423
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Who cares about Ange anyway~ she is such a sidecharacter xD
-cries-

But yes, everyone not mentioning Ange is a bit of a worry. D:
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Old 2009-07-19, 20:45   Link #424
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I wonder if Rudolf got Kyrie pregnant while still married to battler mom...
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Old 2009-07-19, 21:08   Link #425
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I was just looking over the end, and when Rosa & Maria are fleeing the goats, it's not raining. Does that suggest anything?
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Old 2009-07-20, 12:39   Link #426
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Am I the only one thinking Batler is indeed incompetent I mean if the condition to win is to disprove the witch, the first move he should have done is demand for Beatrice to define Witch... That would have been given more room to move..... then he should have start throwing all kind of theories equally as outlandish as a Witch but which the Witch canīt disprove and as outlandish as they are are fundamentally human and do not involve magic (Robots, the Yaimanu (he read Higurashi), government conspiracy, mad scientist, human mutant with power to walk through walls ) then the witch would probably crash them all with red text but may make some mistakes which could help Battler, he should also not have given up using the 18 as possible culprits as long as he can prove some of the 18 could have done it without having to point at an specific one it should be enough for him to trouble Beatrice without really sacrificing anyone.......
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Old 2009-07-20, 12:48   Link #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferthepoet View Post
Am I the only one thinking Batler is indeed incompetent I mean if the condition to win is to disprove the witch, the first move he should have done is demand for Beatrice to define Witch... That would have been given more room to move..... then he should have start throwing all kind of theories equally as outlandish as a Witch but which the Witch canīt disprove and as outlandish as they are are fundamentally human and do not involve magic (Robots, the Yaimanu (he read Higurashi), government conspiracy, mad scientist, human mutant with power to walk through walls ) then the witch would probably crash them all with red text but may make some mistakes which could help Battler, he should also not have given up using the 18 as possible culprits as long as he can prove some of the 18 could have done it without having to point at an specific one it should be enough for him to trouble Beatrice without really sacrificing anyone.......
Well Beatrice did state in read that he's incompetent. ^^;
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Old 2009-07-20, 13:07   Link #428
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I was just looking over the end, and when Rosa & Maria are fleeing the goats, it's not raining. Does that suggest anything?
Dunno, but when I read that scene I always thought that the golden butterflies everywhere could be fire, so I wouldn't want rain to kill the fire (this argumentation is physically wrong.)
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Old 2009-07-21, 07:57   Link #429
patnam
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Kinzo's end so much exciting... getting eaten by the demons and the goats...!!!
yet he's still so happy to see Beato again, and he eager to go to the golden village...LOL.
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Old 2009-07-21, 09:18   Link #430
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Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
I was just looking over the end, and when Rosa & Maria are fleeing the goats, it's not raining. Does that suggest anything?
Well it was the end of October 5. the typhoon is supposed to end on the morning of October 6, so it's not that strange.
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Old 2009-07-23, 12:21   Link #431
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Did you guys find it odd that Genji threw a knife at one of the butterflies?

He seems like the one who would accept fate, after all he did stay alone in the kitchen.

Last edited by Teapot; 2009-07-23 at 12:35.
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Old 2009-07-23, 12:28   Link #432
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I always thought of it simply as him trying to protect the ones who left from harm.
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Old 2009-07-23, 14:24   Link #433
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I just find it quite contradictory to what he said to George just a moment ago.

"What happens to a senile old man like myself will be decided by the roulette. I want to sit here and see the what the result will be with my own eyes."

He seems to have given up. He probably thought the resistance with the mirror was useless.

I think that scene might be a big hint.
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Old 2009-07-23, 15:58   Link #434
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Hmm... Perhaps he did give up on himself, but then that could mean several things anyway: he either didn't care and killed the butterfly to make a statement to Beatrice or he still wanted to give the others a chance. Personally, I think he knows a lot more than we think so far, after all he is one of the underdevelopped characters. Hopefully we get more backstory on his relationship with Kinzo.

Speaking of which, wasn't Kinzo involved with the military? Genji's way with the knife and quick reflexes make me think he was trained as a soldier or a bodyguard.
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Old 2009-07-24, 19:34   Link #435
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Kinzo was involved with the military; he made money supplying US troops during the Korean War; he was able to buy Rokkenjima because of them.

Spoiler for Genji kills butterfly:
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Old 2009-07-26, 07:31   Link #436
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I just finished Turn of the Golden Witch. I must say, I am really in love with Beatrice's character. She seems to be be almost hurt... and then turns around and really makes you believe that she is the cruelest of the witches.

I scared my boyfriend badly by laughing at the first twilight. Not because I found the deaths funny, but because I simply can't wait to see how it's handled in the anime, and how the non-VN readers react (But he understood in the end, when I explained why I was laughing like a maniac).

Very enthralling! I'm really looking forward to part three, which I'll start on the beginning of this long car trip. I really haven't been spending much time trying to solve the puzzls of the locked rooms, I feel I'm still missing too much information to get much of a good explanation.

Also, Battler's comeback was pretty sweet.

Still, I'm not sure quite what to believe. I want to believe in the magical explanations, but at the same time common sense says 'is that really true?'. Bah, brain, can't we agree on one thing?

Last edited by Mint Kashiro; 2009-07-26 at 07:41.
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Old 2009-07-28, 11:39   Link #437
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Finished the second chapter and though I keep trying to think of rational explanations it does seem like we've tipped pretty fully onto the fantasy side of things with this one - to the point that trying to deny them honestly just feels like doing so purely for the sake of obstinacy.

Beatrice pretty much the stole the show the entire episode with mostly just Rosa getting in a few remaining shots (Including the quite awesome "touch my daughter and I'll show you just how lukewarm the hell you crawled out of really was"). Still, how can that compare with Beatrice's explanation of her favor to Battler in how she arranged the First Twilight?

The tea party was full of wonderful.
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Old 2009-07-28, 12:24   Link #438
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Keep on reading, Episode 3 will be a mindfuck even if it explains somethings.
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Old 2009-08-01, 14:14   Link #439
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Okay, so I just finished Episode 2 and it was in fact pretty darn amazing.

I really only have one thing to put out there and it may or may not be significant (or even correct) but it's leading me down the path of believing whether or not there is magic Beatrice isn't the killer.

In both episodes one and two it's said that the way Beatrice gets into locked rooms is she turns into butterflies and slips through the cracks (In other words magic). But in episode 2 she states in red that there are no cracks in the doors when she's laying down the closed room rules for Battler. If there are no cracks then there's no way she could slip through them even with magic.

Last edited by TheShinySword; 2009-08-01 at 14:41.
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Old 2009-08-01, 15:54   Link #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShinySword View Post
Okay, so I just finished Episode 2 and it was in fact pretty darn amazing.

I really only have one thing to put out there and it may or may not be significant (or even correct) but it's leading me down the path of believing whether or not there is magic Beatrice isn't the killer.

In both episodes one and two it's said that the way Beatrice gets into locked rooms is she turns into butterflies and slips through the cracks (In other words magic). But in episode 2 she states in red that there are no cracks in the doors when she's laying down the closed room rules for Battler. If there are no cracks then there's no way she could slip through them even with magic.
I also just finished Episode 2 today! Oh gosh, was it spectacular...

That was a point that I had forgotten about. If there aren't cracks, than it should disprove what she said in Episode 1. However, the stakes were able to get through the door by somewhat "phasing in". Of course this is only if we are to believe in everything that happened in that scene.
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