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Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-22, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

There were villains able to give our heroes a run for their money in the past ...but nothing like Curren and the Huckebein. They not only give the Nanoha team a run for their money, but also surround them in an alley and steal their cellphones, jewels and shoes.

Well, hence the name, the Huckies are akin to a group of crows or ravens that likes to make trouble at the corn farm.

Sorry for out of topic: Speaking of trouble making, this reminds me with my favourite song about the trouble makers. This lyric fits with the Huckebein's nature.

Keroko · 2011-09-22, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Which made things even worse as the AEC are supossed to be superior to Armed Devices in combating Eclipse Drivers which is exactly what Curren and Cypha are.

Which they were. It took a unison-powered armed device to even get close to what the prototype AEC did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

How am I being silly? I just said what she basically is. And she seems to be a few steps above 'give them a run for their money', from what I've seen.

You just claimed Curren is capable of the equivalent of blowing up planets and building cyborg armies while riding a resurrected Ancient Belkan ship and cloning people.

That is silly.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-22, 11:16

I didn't say she was completely those two combined. Just what made them threats: sheer power and intelligence.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-22, 11:28

Smug. Her smug nature. Don't forget that.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-22, 11:31

I guess you could say she has Quattro's fake persona thing going on too, but eh.

Zero Hurricane · 2011-09-22, 11:40

But well, I have to admit that she has a great intelligence and great strength as well. The more powerful, the greater her swell-headed and high nose (read: smug) nature. Although she holds the status as head of Hucks.

Keroko · 2011-09-22, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I didn't say she was completely those two combined. Just what made them threats: sheer power and intelligence.

And she comes nowhere close to the aforementioned in either.

She is nowhere near as powerful as Reinforce, and she's nowhere near as intelligent as Jail. Claiming she is just sounds silly.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-22, 13:41

The story thus far seems to disagree with that, though I wish it didn't.

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-22, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

The story thus far seems to disagree with that, though I wish it didn't.

Oh? How many planets has Curren blown up? How many clones and automated weapons and combat cyborgs has she created?

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-22, 13:55

For the first point, well, pretty much what Sunder had to say on her. She certainly couldn't blow up a planet, but she's at least as deadly at personal combat as Reinforce was.

For the second - I dunno, the story's just trying to sell her as a super-planning villain like Jail, (which is what I meant by smart, sorry) what with how ominous her statements are portrayed. I might not believe it, but the manga itself thinks so.

Sunder the Gold · 2011-09-22, 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

For the first point, well, pretty much what Sunder had to say on her. She certainly couldn't blow up a planet, but she's at least as deadly at personal combat as Reinforce was.

Deadlier.

After she cast the first Starlight Breaker, she didn't do it again. Maybe the one time burned it out of her pages.

After that, she resorted to personal combat against someone she meant to kill to avenge her knights. But while she overpowered Nanoha, she couldn't beat her either.

She was not as dangerous in personal combat as Curren.

Keroko · 2011-09-22, 14:08

I haven't seen Curen toss any superpower spells a-la Reinforce Starlight Breaker either. The paperwave didn't even come close.

Here's what she's done: She snuck up on Hayate, then showed off by dispatching Vita and Erio. Is it impressively powerful? Yes. And it deserves to be, considering she is the leader of the main antagonists. Is it as powerful as Reinforce? No. Not by a long shot.

On the intelligence side of things, what has she done? Traveled around gathering information and stuff for future use, and knows what to do best when it comes to the TSAB and she has 'a plan'. Frankly, this isn't even impressively smart. It's just being smart. A good solid head on her shoulders, nothing more. Certainly not Jail level intelligence. It doesn't even come close.

Sunder the Gold · 2011-09-22, 14:17

I didn't say Curren was more powerful. Just deadlier in an anti-personnel capacity. She's faster, hits harder, and has superior mobility and close quarter combat technique.

That doesn't mean she can murder a city or planet, but it makes her a superior killer against individual mages.

Keroko · 2011-09-22, 14:24

Depends. Reinforce can one-shot anyone simply by absorbing her in her book, like she did to Fate (the only reason she didn't do it to Nanoha as well is because of lolplot).

But I will agree that Curen is the most dangerous individual in Force at the movement. Certainly the most powerful and intelligent one. I'd say that rather than being "more powerful than Reinforce and more intelligent than Jail" she strikes a balance between the two. She has both brains and brawn. And yes, this indeed makes her a very powerful individual.

But stop and think about it for a second: Is that really so strange? Again, she's the leader of the main antagonists. She's supposed to be a serious threat. Are we honestly so busy trying to find flaws in this manga that we're being blinded to the basics of storytelling?

Sunder the Gold · 2011-09-22, 14:32

My complaint isn't that she's powerful. I just said that I hoped there was a good reason for her to be so competent. As I presume that skill played as much in her accomplishments as raw power.

I would like to know where she and the other Huckebein come from, and why they know how to fight. If the Bible of the Silver Cross is yet another ancient weapon that was receipt unearthed, was Curren buried with it as another relic of a more powerful nation?

Keroko · 2011-09-22, 14:52

A good reason for her to be so competent? She's the leader of the antagonists. If you want villains to be taken seriously as a threat, make them competent. If not them, then at least their leader. A competent villain who has a chance of actually winning will be taken much more seriously than one who has no chance of winning.

Justin_Brett · 2011-09-22, 15:00

Starlight Breaker isn't really a close combat spell, it's bombardment. Curren most likely didn't use anything comparable because there was no point in that situation.

Quote:

I'd say that rather than being "more powerful than Reinforce and more intelligent than Jail" she strikes a balance between the two. She has both brains and brawn.

And none of the obvious weaknesses the brains and brawn in this case had. That's not really balance.

Sunder the Gold · 2011-09-22, 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

A good reason for her to be so competent? She's the leader of the antagonists. If you want villains to be taken seriously as a threat, make them competent. If not them, then at least their leader. A competent villain who has a chance of actually winning will be taken much more seriously than one who has no chance of winning.

I'm not satisfied with villains that appear out of thin air. I want antagonists that were born or created somehow. REAL people need real origins.

If these Huckebein were all modern mages or non-mages who got infected, what planet did they come from? Was it an Administered World, or not?

How did they find each other? Who taught them how to fight?

DO they know how to fight, or are their abilties largely instinctual and reflexive, so that they can get by on sheer brute power?

As for Starlight Breaker not being suited for personal combat, I'll note that Nanoha and Fate RAN the moment she started casting it, and they ran FAR. If Reinforce could keep using it, she could have kept them at bay at a distance, where they didn't have a hope of defeating her, and then just hammer them with impunity until they're dead.

So why didn't she? Heck, even Diabolic Emission should have been available, or Ragnarok Breaker, if Starlight Breaker really DID get burned out of her pages.

I'd gripe about how using Absorption on Fate doesn't really make sense, but this isn't the thread for it.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-22, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Which they were. It took a unison-powered armed device to even get close to what the prototype AEC attempted to do.

Fixed.

And even if Reinforce can blow up cities, Curren is, in essence, able to defeat the mighty avatar of the Book of Darkness due to the nature of her powers.

The kicker about hes assault on Hayate and the curbstomp she dlivered to Erio and Vita is that Curren isn't even trying. She surprises and stomped everyone on sight like if it where the most natural thing for her to do. Compared with Cypha and the others that, while easy nontheless, they still needed to abuse their eclipse powers to came out victorious which Curren does not.

That's why i think she's badass, her strenght cannot be questioned, she scored a fair and clean victory. Curren probably lacks the raw destructive power Reinforce have but is more lethal than her one-on-one she probably isn't a genius scientist like Scaglietty but is smart enough to understand human behavior and manipulate it to her own interests, plus, she's a lot more powerfull than the good doctor. It's a good mix: "Smarter than Reinforce, Stronger than Scaglietti".

LostSome · 2011-09-22, 15:13

How did my question on how Curren got behind Hayate got into this ?

One thing about Curren is experience and by the look of it contacts.
She has been the leader of the Hucks for, like what, a decade.
She is very quick to adapt if things don`t go as planned as well.
She is an experienced and competent leader. Why wouldn`t she be by now ?
Maybe she has a military background or something like that too.

As for Curren`s power...
Let`s imagined an infected Thoma in 10 years... Can`t say I see him worst than her.
Scary actually... Thoma`s Silver Hammer from day one was rather impressive.

So, we should know everything from the start ?
Isis just got some background...

2011-09-22, 11:28	Link #164
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	Smug. Her smug nature. Don't forget that. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-22, 11:40	Link #166
Zero Hurricane I'm here for the reason.. Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Surabaya, East Java, Indonesia Age: 31	But well, I have to admit that she has a great intelligence and great strength as well. The more powerful, the greater her swell-headed and high nose (read: smug) nature. Although she holds the status as head of Hucks. __________________ "Use of deadly force is authorized"

2011-09-22, 15:13	Link #180
LostSome Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canada	How did my question on how Curren got behind Hayate got into this ? One thing about Curren is experience and by the look of it contacts. She has been the leader of the Hucks for, like what, a decade. She is very quick to adapt if things don`t go as planned as well. She is an experienced and competent leader. Why wouldn`t she be by now ? Maybe she has a military background or something like that too. As for Curren`s power... Let`s imagined an infected Thoma in 10 years... Can`t say I see him worst than her. Scary actually... Thoma`s Silver Hammer from day one was rather impressive. So, we should know everything from the start ? Isis just got some background... __________________ Nyohohohoho ! It`s the law of the universe that only wizards die as virgins. You can`t let yourself die as a virgin, right ? -Old geezer.

2011-09-22, 11:16	Link #163
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I didn't say she was completely those two combined. Just what made them threats: sheer power and intelligence.

2011-09-22, 11:31	Link #165
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I guess you could say she has Quattro's fake persona thing going on too, but eh.

2011-09-22, 13:41	Link #168
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	The story thus far seems to disagree with that, though I wish it didn't.

2011-09-22, 13:55	Link #170
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	For the first point, well, pretty much what Sunder had to say on her. She certainly couldn't blow up a planet, but she's at least as deadly at personal combat as Reinforce was. For the second - I dunno, the story's just trying to sell her as a super-planning villain like Jail, (which is what I meant by smart, sorry) what with how ominous her statements are portrayed. I might not believe it, but the manga itself thinks so.

2011-09-22, 14:08	Link #172
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	I haven't seen Curen toss any superpower spells a-la Reinforce Starlight Breaker either. The paperwave didn't even come close. Here's what she's done: She snuck up on Hayate, then showed off by dispatching Vita and Erio. Is it impressively powerful? Yes. And it deserves to be, considering she is the leader of the main antagonists. Is it as powerful as Reinforce? No. Not by a long shot. On the intelligence side of things, what has she done? Traveled around gathering information and stuff for future use, and knows what to do best when it comes to the TSAB and she has 'a plan'. Frankly, this isn't even impressively smart. It's just being smart. A good solid head on her shoulders, nothing more. Certainly not Jail level intelligence. It doesn't even come close.

2011-09-22, 14:17	Link #173
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	I didn't say Curren was more powerful. Just deadlier in an anti-personnel capacity. She's faster, hits harder, and has superior mobility and close quarter combat technique. That doesn't mean she can murder a city or planet, but it makes her a superior killer against individual mages.

2011-09-22, 14:24	Link #174
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Depends. Reinforce can one-shot anyone simply by absorbing her in her book, like she did to Fate (the only reason she didn't do it to Nanoha as well is because of lolplot). But I will agree that Curen is the most dangerous individual in Force at the movement. Certainly the most powerful and intelligent one. I'd say that rather than being "more powerful than Reinforce and more intelligent than Jail" she strikes a balance between the two. She has both brains and brawn. And yes, this indeed makes her a very powerful individual. But stop and think about it for a second: Is that really so strange? Again, she's the leader of the main antagonists. She's supposed to be a serious threat. Are we honestly so busy trying to find flaws in this manga that we're being blinded to the basics of storytelling?

2011-09-22, 14:32	Link #175
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	My complaint isn't that she's powerful. I just said that I hoped there was a good reason for her to be so competent. As I presume that skill played as much in her accomplishments as raw power. I would like to know where she and the other Huckebein come from, and why they know how to fight. If the Bible of the Silver Cross is yet another ancient weapon that was receipt unearthed, was Curren buried with it as another relic of a more powerful nation?

2011-09-22, 14:52	Link #176
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	A good reason for her to be so competent? She's the leader of the antagonists. If you want villains to be taken seriously as a threat, make them competent. If not them, then at least their leader. A competent villain who has a chance of actually winning will be taken much more seriously than one who has no chance of winning.