2010-02-20, 00:12 | Link #6161 | |
Aspiring Aspirer
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You can really tell he wants to guarder some sympathy from readers, but I do have to agree with you, what he did was irresponsible. I can see what he wanted to do, what he wanted to express, but in the same time you can't justify the death of someone unrelated to his suffering. The people of the IRS, like any civil servant are normal people with jobs and they are tasked to preform their jobs, it just happens to be that their jobs have alot more weight on other people's lives. On the tax cheating, it really does work against him. But the problem still exists; sometimes the institutions and regulations which were made to help the small guys sometimes screw the same people. Governments are not perfect, they're never going to be perfect. Sometimes we have to defer, sometimes we have to realize how unfair things are. People have to realize that we give up an amount of freedoms for particular privileges. And there will always be people who want anarchy, sometimes its for a sound reason or principle which they believe in, that order will spontaneously take the world. And others, because they would love to live in a world with no restrictions on life. No matter how free we may think we are as a people, of nations of this world; there's alot of freedoms which we don't have, I believe that we as a people shouldn't be so caught up on freedom, when our freedom is truly in danger, people will fight, people will rally. But one man's suffering doesn't warrant the efforts of everyone, and everyone's suffering will not warrant the actions of only one man.
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2010-02-20, 00:32 | Link #6162 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Part of my frustration with this guy and what he did is that I really hope this event doesn't spawn copy cat crimes. The Columbine incident spawned copy cat crimes. I hope that some people out there facing hard times and who have issues with the government don't look at this crime and then think to themselves "Why don't I lash out to gov't officials, too?".
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2010-02-20, 01:55 | Link #6163 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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As for taxes, I'll just say this - the IRS performs a service that was not created for the reasons it exists today. Initially it was just a way for the government to pay for the Civil War. Today it operates as an arm of the Treasury, collecting income taxes for a variety of government programs. Many of which are underfunded or poorly managed and don't seem to be getting fixed anytime soon (such as Social Security). Keep in mind this system, like many other functions of the various government agencies, has little to no representation except for committees the public does not elect and elected officials who don't always vote in favor of their constituents. For example, the public overwhelming expressed their dislike for the TARP program, and it failed to get enough votes in Congress. The same program was pushed through again and this time passed because the first no vote caused the stock market to plummet. That's not a vote of public representation, it was one of fear and self interest. You'll get some vague "expert" opinions that the bailouts worked, but then again the debt is now a staggering amount and only going higher, and while major companies have begun posting profits the average public is still facing unemployment and lower standards of living. Public frustration at not feeling like they have a voice is measured in things like the Tea Party movement, which no matter how fringe it is painted is an accurate depiction of the raw anger many Americans have about not feeling like they have a voice in their government anymore. The Tea Party is perhaps the most talked about these days but it's not the only movement - groups exist of all leanings even if they aren't as known or aggressive. Does that give a man the right to crash a plane into a building and kill people? Well, no. I can't say his actions were justified, as the people he harmed were most likely not involved with his quarrels except by circumstance (they worked at the place he didn't like). But, in a wider view, it's just a bloody notch of protest in the bigger problems the country has. He wasn't the first to do something like this, and he won't be the last. Sadly. Think about it from this perspective - if you truly felt you weren't getting a fair deal in the system, what would you do to change that? Send letters? How far would you go, before you just gave up and looked the other way? How far would you go to get someone, anyone, to pay attention to your concerns? How extreme would you get to make your points heard? I'm not defending this guy, but his letter clearly shows intelligence. One can only wonder what went wrong to drive this guy to do what he did. I can definitely say that putting all the blame on him and simply dismissing him as a "crazy guy" isn't the best thing to do...remember that one suicide bomber is a crazy guy, but a bunch hijacking airliners to crash them into buildings is an act of war.
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2010-02-20, 02:33 | Link #6164 |
Aria Company
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Having intelligence doesn't mean he wasn't crazy. The simple fact is he cheated on his taxes and got caught. The IRS didn't cause his problems, he caused them himself. He was just projecting things onto the government because it's easier to say "it's all their fault" than it is to admit he screwed things up himself.
Also your example about the TARP? That's why we're a representative republic and not an actual democracy. Sure, the public doesn't like it, but they're going by talking points they heard on cable news. The simple fact is it saved several financial institutions from going under. Even if you assume their going under wouldn't have caused problems for any other sectors, we're still looking at more people being out of work than currently are. The popular move isn't always the best move after all.
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2010-02-20, 03:14 | Link #6165 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Hindsight on the bailout is one thing. The TARP was a hail mary play. Of course, now things are looking better in the economy so pats on the back are going around for jobs well done, as if it was "just as planned". I'm fully aware of the damages of these companies going under would have done, but I also believe that by bailing them out we not only rewarded their bad behavior but we've also set a bad precedent for risk taking. What happens when the next big industrial crisis hits, are we going to bail them all out again because "they're too big to fail"? I really hope not. There shouldn't even be a next time, but you know there will be. We're in a representative republic because majorities aren't the only ones with a voice - an actual democracy would be too unwieldy anyway with the size of the nation. There were many politicians that did not approve of the bailout, but they bowed to fear of market collapse because their first judgment of voting no caused a panic reaction on the Dow. They voted yes because they were afraid things would be worse if they stuck with the no vote. There was little time to prepare any second opinion on if the plan was a good idea or not, the Treasury and the White House pressured Congress into passing it because if they didn't it could have been the end of the world (or so they said). Even economists were unsure if it would work. Some said it was too small, some said it was too big, some were afraid it would drive inflation, etc. Some thought no bailout was better, others said pumping as much money into the market as fast as possible would be better. Clashing theories about Great Depression lessons and other bubble bursts abounded. Two years later, TARP is a distant memory and the second stimulus is the new "greatest thing ever". Congressmen who didn't even vote for it are taking credit for creating new jobs and saving Americans from who knows what kind of horrible fate. I can tell you one thing, there's many empty houses where I live, and closed businesses too. It's nice to see those financial companies posting good profits and most have even paid back the money they owed, but there's still many people jobless and worse. Things like that feed anger and frustration, with lots of people wondering where the help for the "little guy" is. This guy did a terrible thing, and I don't defend any of his actions, but dismissing his final act as the terrorist attack of a rambling crazy man is, to me at least, not thinking about where he came from and what drove him to do what he did. He certainly doesn't seem to be a "some people just want to watch the world burn" type of individual.
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2010-02-20, 03:21 | Link #6166 |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Edit: I wrote this post before reading your last post Solace. It wasn't there before I started writing it. I see more about what you are talking about and how we should try to see where he is coming from and he is not just "another nutjob". But really he basically is, I think. I don't care where he is coming from. It all goes down the tubes when you commit senseless killing.
The post I wrote (went back to ranting, sorry >.>): I don't even want to read his letter. I don't care what he had to say. He wrote it all and hoped it would justify his murderous act. I don't care if he was frustrated. Again, boo hoo. He should have sucked it up like a strong person. He isn't the only person to go through hard times in life and suffer. Everyone suffers, and most go through hard times. Some go through a hell of a lot worse than him and don't go and commit murder-suicides. I don't care if his letter shows he was intelligent. Obviously he isn't too bright if he decides crashing a plane into a building killing innocents is the best thing to do due to his frustration. And intelligent person in their right mind would cope with the problems they faced and find solutions. They would have found solutions. He wasn't in his right mind, so to speak. And if you make the point that the IRS does have problems and doesn't always benefit people, you are right. But this isn't the way to deal with an imperfect institution. He could have ranted and wrote letters and so forth, and it probably wouldn't have changed anything. But he did something terrible instead, and when all is said and done...will the IRS change? He lashed out. Now...will the IRS change like he wanted them to? Probably not in the least. Good going to him, he accomplished nothing good yet produced much bad things. Edit 2: I'm usually not so...edgy with news like this, I must say. And I don't rant about stories like this most times. But this guy really got me going. I think a big part of it is that he believed he was right to do what he did. He wrote a letter and posted it online. He felt like he was explaining himself and that by explaining himself, it would at least partially, however little, justify his ambition. I can only imagine he thought he was to do the right thing by doing what he did, and that is what bothers me. He was so delusional and had plenty of time to think this through and plenty of time to think "Hey, I shouldn't do this, this isn't the answer" but he really thought that doing what he did was a good answer. So sad and frustrating. I'm also ranting about this guy twice because I'm sick of seeing people do terrible things in life because things didn't go according to plan (like the professor in the Alabama shooting, that pisses me off, too). That Alabama shooting didn't help things. This story was the straw that broke the camels back for me. And like I mentioned earlier, I'm worried about copy cat crimes.
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Last edited by Urzu 7; 2010-02-20 at 03:48. |
2010-02-20, 03:34 | Link #6167 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this discussion since we've all made our points. There's no need to end up talking in circles on this kind of thing.
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2010-02-20, 03:44 | Link #6168 | |
Juanita/Kiteless
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 40
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Yeah, I've said what I wanted to. I let out some frustration. You are right, there is no need to talk in circles.
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2010-02-21, 03:53 | Link #6169 |
✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mortuary : D
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* Sarah Palin Pissed at Family Guy Reference
I would really be grateful, if someone could post Faux News take on this . Need my luffz before sleep
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2010-02-21, 04:23 | Link #6170 |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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People's Republic Of Hacking - Computer Security In China
This is an interesting read. Being a computer enthusiast, security has been my favourite subject though I know little about it. Sounds like the script kiddies are rising again, this time from China.
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2010-02-21, 05:34 | Link #6171 | |
The AnimeSuki Pet kitten
IT Support
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2010-02-21, 10:09 | Link #6172 | |
✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mortuary : D
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Here is the Summary , if you haven't watched it yet .. ... NOT Defending Family Guy, not the idea
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2010-02-21, 13:22 | Link #6173 | |
Kuu-chan is hungry
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Anyone see the Glenn Beck speech at CPAC? According to him, purity is needed for long lasting power and the "big tent" argument is stupid. |
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2010-02-21, 14:31 | Link #6174 |
Aspiring Aspirer
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Let me quote the thing they said about people with down syndrome;
"I used to hear that people with Down syndrome were different from the rest of us but you’re not. You’re not different at all. You’re just a bunch of assholes like everyone else." I think a reference to a person isn't particularly bad or anything. Really what type of statement did they make about Sarah Palin at all?
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