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MgMaster · 2018-01-18, 22:00

I'm like, very glad I got to watch such a classic that I had no clue about that was adapted pretty damn well to our current era.

In the end, it doesn't matter if Ryo/Satan learned a valuable lesson at the end, because it was simply too late given all the damage he's caused. Yea, all the hysteria is overblown but it nevertheless manages to drive it's point across. While the anime still gives us with that hope carrot for a while with the kids & people hugging Akira & someone like Miki influencing people for the better in a crisis, it just wasn't enough.

And then I'm just considering how different things would've turned out if more people like her,Akira,Miki no2 & even the rappers dudes were around. After all, some of them are bound to fall to the crazed masses even after they've delivered their msg and it's not enough without another similar figure(or well, multiple ones) constantly reinforcing it.

Gan_HOPE326 · 2018-01-20, 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MgMaster

I'm like, very glad I got to watch such a classic that I had no clue about that was adapted pretty damn well to our current era.

In the end, it doesn't matter if Ryo/Satan learned a valuable lesson at the end, because it was simply too late given all the damage he's caused. Yea, all the hysteria is overblown but it nevertheless manages to drive it's point across. While the anime still gives us with that hope carrot for a while with the kids & people hugging Akira & someone like Miki influencing people for the better in a crisis, it just wasn't enough.

And then I'm just considering how different things would've turned out if more people like her,Akira,Miki no2 & even the rappers dudes were around. After all, some of them are bound to fall to the crazed masses even after they've delivered their msg and it's not enough without another similar figure(or well, multiple ones) constantly reinforcing it.

Yeah, it's really a "critical mass" thing. You need enough sane people around to keep the others from going nuts. Though in these kind of fantasy scenarios I always see an issue. The whole "we're different but we shouldn't hate each other" makes much more sense when talking about human races or nationalities. But demons here literally have a urge to eat people, and can't exist without possessing someone's body. And I don't see many ways to compromise with that. Ultimately, it's not ideology that pits them against human, it's simple survival. The issue is with humans also becoming completely hysterical out of fear and effectively doing more harm than good to themselves.

Thess · 2018-01-30, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Yeah, it's really a "critical mass" thing. You need enough sane people around to keep the others from going nuts. Though in these kind of fantasy scenarios I always see an issue. The whole "we're different but we shouldn't hate each other" makes much more sense when talking about human races or nationalities. But demons here literally have a urge to eat people, and can't exist without possessing someone's body. And I don't see many ways to compromise with that. Ultimately, it's not ideology that pits them against human, it's simple survival. The issue is with humans also becoming completely hysterical out of fear and effectively doing more harm than good to themselves.

This is where Yuasa messed up, or rather completely changed the demons because he needed to push his boring "what is love" theme, IMO.

Spoiler for Devilman Manga, Devilman Lady spoilers, some Demon Lord Dante talk:

Demons in the manga have their own bodies, though. They never died but were hibernating encased on ice to recover strength for the last battle until global warming stirred them. It was about coexistence because demons, who were the original humans, by the way, groggily awoke to find out that Earth, the planet they fought hard to protect and keep, was overrun by weaklings (in their eyes) which did the unspeakable: polluted and harm nature. Satan and Zenon/Xenon both are pretty pissed off because of how humans destroyed the planet and wanted them gone. Like any human would react if they awoke and suddenly their world and home is changed and destroyed by strangers.
Their reaction was ironically very human.

The possession isn't completely necessary for the manga. They had their bodies because they were alive. They used it as a scare tactic and is compared to kamikaze bombers sometimes (as criticism from Nagai). It's in their ability to merge too.

It was about intolerance and stupidity of both sides. Sure, demons sometimes feel the urge to fight or eat humans, but so do humans, it's all symbolic how humans turn into worse and more ruthless than demons and Akira sees this too. That's why he abandons humanity in the end. Satan shows more remorse for what happened to humanity than Akira does. Everyone in the manga, even the Makimura family, isn't above violence, gag-mob behavior, and letting the war shows the worst of them. There's no good vs evil, just human stupidity.

Ryo/Satan is the perfect vessel for the manga themes. Not only Ryo was different before the paranoia and fears consumed him once he thought his father became a demon and killed himself, becoming borderline psychotic at times and about to snap with his sanity a hair away from losing it: we get to glimpse Ryo before this in the flashback of Neo Devilman or outside the paranoia mindset in Shin Devilman, and he's a sweet, gentle boy who loves nature and animals. That's why Akira remarked how different he's acting when he picks him up, he's scared for his life and sanity. Through Ryo, Satan found out how much the fear of demons can completely change a person and that's why understands that demons must use that achilles' heel humans have. Because Ryo became violent, paranoid and pretty much mentally unstable (not as much as Akira does in the manga, but anyway...).
War gets the worst even from the heroic and well-intended, not just seen in random humans or Akira, but also and specially Satan. Satan was a protector of the weak against a bully (God) who decided to commit genocide just because. In their crusade, Satan lost their way and became exactly what he/she hated. Like how humans and demons weren't that different from each other in this orgy of violence.

Gan_HOPE326 · 2018-01-30, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

This is where Yuasa messed up, or rather completely changed the demons because he needed to push his boring "what is love" theme, IMO.

Spoiler for Devilman Manga, Devilman Lady spoilers, some Demon Lord Dante talk:

Demons in the manga have their own bodies, though. They never died but were hibernating encased on ice to recover strength for the last battle until global warming stirred them. It was about coexistence because demons, who were the original humans, by the way, groggily awoke to find out that Earth, the planet they fought hard to protect and keep, was overrun by weaklings (in their eyes) which did the unspeakable: polluted and harm nature. Satan and Zenon/Xenon both are pretty pissed off because of how humans destroyed the planet and wanted them gone. Like any human would react if they awoke and suddenly their world and home is changed and destroyed by strangers.
Their reaction was ironically very human.

The possession isn't completely necessary for the manga. They had their bodies because they were alive. They used it as a scare tactic and is compared to kamikaze bombers sometimes (as criticism from Nagai). It's in their ability to merge too.

It was about intolerance and stupidity of both sides. Sure, demons sometimes feel the urge to fight or eat humans, but so do humans, it's all symbolic how humans turn into worse and more ruthless than demons and Akira sees this too. That's why he abandons humanity in the end. Satan shows more remorse for what happened to humanity than Akira does. Everyone in the manga, even the Makimura family, isn't above violence, gag-mob behavior, and letting the war shows the worst of them. There's no good vs evil, just human stupidity.

Ryo/Satan is the perfect vessel for the manga themes. Not only Ryo was different before the paranoia and fears consumed him once he thought his father became a demon and killed himself, becoming borderline psychotic at times and about to snap with his sanity a hair away from losing it: we get to glimpse Ryo before this in the flashback of Neo Devilman or outside the paranoia mindset in Shin Devilman, and he's a sweet, gentle boy who loves nature and animals. That's why Akira remarked how different he's acting when he picks him up, he's scared for his life and sanity. Through Ryo, Satan found out how much the fear of demons can completely change a person and that's why understands that demons must use that achilles' heel humans have. Because Ryo became violent, paranoid and pretty much mentally unstable (not as much as Akira does in the manga, but anyway...).
War gets the worst even from the heroic and well-intended, not just seen in random humans or Akira, but also and specially Satan. Satan was a protector of the weak against a bully (God) who decided to commit genocide just because. In their crusade, Satan lost their way and became exactly what he/she hated. Like how humans and demons weren't that different from each other in this orgy of violence.

Oooh, that makes sense. Gotta read that manga I guess.

zztop · 2018-01-31, 09:28

I've watched up to the part where Akira wakes up to find he's creamed his bedroom ceiling with his new sexual drive.

It's like Scary Movie 1, except Anna Faris wasn't on the receiving end here...

*imagines Brenda Meeks (Regina Hall) having a 1 to 1 fight with Sirene, thug-style*

"Imma whoop her turkey ass, Cindy! Get the cranberry sauce ready!"

Yorae_paladin1 · 2018-02-07, 02:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

This is where Yuasa messed up, or rather completely changed the demons because he needed to push his boring "what is love" theme, IMO.

Spoiler for Devilman Manga, Devilman Lady spoilers, some Demon Lord Dante talk:

Demons in the manga have their own bodies, though. They never died but were hibernating encased on ice to recover strength for the last battle until global warming stirred them. It was about coexistence because demons, who were the original humans, by the way, groggily awoke to find out that Earth, the planet they fought hard to protect and keep, was overrun by weaklings (in their eyes) which did the unspeakable: polluted and harm nature. Satan and Zenon/Xenon both are pretty pissed off because of how humans destroyed the planet and wanted them gone. Like any human would react if they awoke and suddenly their world and home is changed and destroyed by strangers.
Their reaction was ironically very human.

The possession isn't completely necessary for the manga. They had their bodies because they were alive. They used it as a scare tactic and is compared to kamikaze bombers sometimes (as criticism from Nagai). It's in their ability to merge too.

It was about intolerance and stupidity of both sides. Sure, demons sometimes feel the urge to fight or eat humans, but so do humans, it's all symbolic how humans turn into worse and more ruthless than demons and Akira sees this too. That's why he abandons humanity in the end. Satan shows more remorse for what happened to humanity than Akira does. Everyone in the manga, even the Makimura family, isn't above violence, gag-mob behavior, and letting the war shows the worst of them. There's no good vs evil, just human stupidity.

Ryo/Satan is the perfect vessel for the manga themes. Not only Ryo was different before the paranoia and fears consumed him once he thought his father became a demon and killed himself, becoming borderline psychotic at times and about to snap with his sanity a hair away from losing it: we get to glimpse Ryo before this in the flashback of Neo Devilman or outside the paranoia mindset in Shin Devilman, and he's a sweet, gentle boy who loves nature and animals. That's why Akira remarked how different he's acting when he picks him up, he's scared for his life and sanity. Through Ryo, Satan found out how much the fear of demons can completely change a person and that's why understands that demons must use that achilles' heel humans have. Because Ryo became violent, paranoid and pretty much mentally unstable (not as much as Akira does in the manga, but anyway...).
War gets the worst even from the heroic and well-intended, not just seen in random humans or Akira, but also and specially Satan. Satan was a protector of the weak against a bully (God) who decided to commit genocide just because. In their crusade, Satan lost their way and became exactly what he/she hated. Like how humans and demons weren't that different from each other in this orgy of violence.

Spoiler:

2018-01-31, 09:28	Link #85
zztop Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013	I've watched up to the part where Akira wakes up to find he's creamed his bedroom ceiling with his new sexual drive. It's like Scary Movie 1, except Anna Faris wasn't on the receiving end here... <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/FOwRRf6_3C4">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> imagines Brenda Meeks (Regina Hall) having a 1 to 1 fight with Sirene, thug-style "Imma whoop her turkey ass, Cindy! Get the cranberry sauce ready!"

2018-01-18, 22:00	Link #81
MgMaster Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013	I'm like, very glad I got to watch such a classic that I had no clue about that was adapted pretty damn well to our current era. In the end, it doesn't matter if Ryo/Satan learned a valuable lesson at the end, because it was simply too late given all the damage he's caused. Yea, all the hysteria is overblown but it nevertheless manages to drive it's point across. While the anime still gives us with that hope carrot for a while with the kids & people hugging Akira & someone like Miki influencing people for the better in a crisis, it just wasn't enough. And then I'm just considering how different things would've turned out if more people like her,Akira,Miki no2 & even the rappers dudes were around. After all, some of them are bound to fall to the crazed masses even after they've delivered their msg and it's not enough without another similar figure(or well, multiple ones) constantly reinforcing it.