Aldnoah.Zero - General Character Discussion - Martians

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Since Lemrina doesn't have her own thread yet, I'll just use this one.

It's pretty clear that Lemrina doesn't have any love for her sister or her grandfather. I was thinking, if she wants to take everything that belongs to her sister, I can actually see her having a scheme of her own.

What if, she is the one who kills her own grandfather, and then takes over the throne as Asseylum, who being the kind person she is, names her half-sister as her heir until marriage/children.

Lemrina then plans to kill her sister and show her as being dead, and thus becomes Empress of Vers?

And of course no one accuses her, thinking of her as the poor crippled princess.

I don't know, I can see her trying it.

If she actually does this then we're going into full A Game of Vers territory, especially if you take into account Slaine's antics in the latest episode

That said, I don't think Lemrina plans to kill her sister for now. Although I think you might be on to something about her becoming the Empress of Vers, maybe if Slaine's plans pull through perhaps?

[Irenesharda]

Here's a question,

Considering how young Vers' society actually is, how did they actually set up a distinct, set in stone class system in such a short time?

What defines the classes and how did the nobles get to be where they are and the poor classes where they are. Usually this kind of thing on such a large social scale would take some time, and more than a couple of generations to really stick. I'm just wondering.

Also, does anyone notice that only the royal family members have surnames? All of the other Martian characters, other than Rayet and her father, have only single names? Is that a Martian custom? Did Rayet and her dad only have last names because they were stationed as spies on Earth and thus had to have one? It's just interesting, especially considering that despite an exception or two, Martian names are pretty strange and alien in and of themselves.

[vic-vic]

I think first Ray choose a group of people, who vere personaly loyal to him and give them right to control Aldnoah and they became the counts. Then, those counts, created their own personal fighting forces - viscounts and barons (depend on their loyalty and skills).

Everyone else became a commoners. Just my IMHIO

[lubczyk]

Look at cults through history and around the world. Even world leaders of countries such as North Korea and China built a cult of personality for their leaders in a short time. Regalia's son used the Aldnoah to keep the populace in line and blamed their poverty on Earth.

I would venture the Aldnoah keeps Vers life support systems online so nobody dares go against the royal family.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by lubczyk

Look at cults through history and around the world. Even world leaders of countries such as North Korea and China built a cult of personality for their leaders in a short time. Regalia's son used the Aldnoah to keep the populace in line and blamed their poverty on Earth.

I would venture the Aldnoah keeps Vers life support systems online so nobody dares go against the royal family.

I know, but even those social classes were built upon a surrounding culture and society that had been around for centuries. I just find it interesting that despite only being around for about 30+ years, that they would have such a set class structure that is supposed to mirror feudal class systems on Earth that usually took generations to develop and stick. The short amount of time that Vers has been in existance has always been a problem logic wise, but I was just wondering at others ideas.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I know, but even those social classes were built upon a surrounding culture and society that had been around for centuries. I just find it interesting that despite only being around for about 30+ years, that they would have such a set class structure that is supposed to mirror feudal class systems on Earth that usually took generations to develop and stick. The short amount of time that Vers has been in existance has always been a problem logic wise, but I was just wondering at others ideas.

Well, consider where the original colonists came from: wealthy countries such as England, Russia and the US during the late 1970s/early 1980s.

(NB: this is from a 'History of A/Z' article in Febri 25. It's speculated that Rayregelia is from England.)

The class system of England is still existant even in our own world today, though it's lines have blurred and I haven't heard or read of any huge problems with discrimination across class lines. But whilst I'm no expert of English society in the 1970s, I dare say that class lines were definitely stronger 40 years ago than they are today...and I can imagine Rayregelia using Aldnoah to strengthen that system.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by karice67

Well, consider where the original colonists came from: wealthy countries such as England, Russia and the US during the late 1970s/early 1980s.

(NB: this is from a 'History of A/Z' article in Febri 25. It's speculated that Rayregelia is from England.)

The class system of England is still existant even in our own world today, though it's lines have blurred and I haven't heard or read of any huge problems with discrimination across class lines. But whilst I'm no expert of English society in the 1970s, I dare say that class lines were definitely stronger 40 years ago than they are today...and I can imagine Rayregelia using Aldnoah to strengthen that system.

Considering how much social change movements there were in the 60s and 70s, it's interesting that people would agree to such an antiquated type of society. It wasn't like they decided to copy after idealized times in society like the 40s and 50s, but instead decided to have a feudal system similar to the Dark Ages? A fascinating choice...

Any idea why everyone suddenly decided to have such weird names? I'm wondering what the etymology of these names are, and why is it only the royals (and Rayet and her father) that have surnames? Is it another class thing?

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Considering how much social change movements there were in the 60s and 70s, it's interesting that people would agree to such an antiquated type of society. It wasn't like they decided to copy after idealized times in society like the 40s and 50s, but instead decided to have a feudal system similar to the Dark Ages? A fascinating choice...

Any idea why everyone suddenly decided to have such weird names? I'm wondering what the etymology of these names are, and why is it only the royals (and Rayet and her father) that have surnames? Is it another class thing?

I have no idea, really. I mean, if it was Rayregelia - as the successor to the Aldnoah technology - who imposed the system, then I suspect everyone else didn't really have any say in it.

As for not using surnames...maybe it just became that way after a while, in line with how royals today just don't use surnames?

(p.s. I came across this blog post on English surnames the other day, and found it quite interesting...)

[AverageFan]

I could imagine that the current Vers upper class were already high up in pre-independent Vers mars. That those already who had power wanted and wanted to stay in power. So sided with Ray when he got aldnoah and declared himself emperor, giving him their resource and support in exchange for authority in the empire. People that could help Ray solidify his rule. But the knights had too much autonomy and did what ever they wanted.

Also fact that the martian colonist was isolated from earth for a number of years. There in a hostile environment with limited resources and no way to go back. Am also thinking that the colonist were on their last leg when Ray come into power. And his ownership of the aldnoah technology may have saved Martian society some how. So they just followed him without question when he named himself emperor.

Anther thing people being born on mars. That new generation of martians grow up in an environment. Being taught propaganda about martian superiority and other stuff. They would grow up thing that this system think it is normal or something

It could also be that the only the noble and orbital Knight follow the whole feudal society thing and stuff. And that everyone else is just playing along.

We also haven’t seen the full extend of Martian society. So it may not be as feudal as we think.

On the whole weird names thing. Maybe they did it to stand out form their earth cousins and feel special with their names. Or may the language changed a bit.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by AverageFan

It could also be that the only the noble and orbital Knight follow the whole feudal society thing and stuff. And that everyone else is just playing along.

We also haven’t seen the full extend of Martian society. So it may not be as feudal as we think.

On the whole weird names thing. Maybe they did it to stand out form their earth cousins and feel special with their names. Or may the language changed a bit.

Well, we know that the lower classes also follow the feudal system as seen by servants like Eddelrittuo and Harklight. Also, I don't think Saazbaum got his opinion of what happening to the lower class from nothing.

It would actually be harder for only one class to be following such a system, and for the other not to. It would mean that they would be willing to "pretend" for decades and live in squalor and work themselves to death but never being able to change their position or class, just for the heck of it. I don't think so.

All those people that serve under the knights are of the lower classes, they were "lucky" enough to be able to serve the upper class. It stands to reason that they operate under the same social system that their masters do.

[DMurphy]

One theory that was posed early on, and which there's really no evidence for or against at this point (and probably never will be), is that prolonged exposure to Martian artifacts causes people to start acting in a way somewhat similar to said Martian society.

I don't personally subscribe to that theory, but it was posed by some as a potential explanation for how such a rigid class system formed in such a short term, so make of that what you will.

[SPARTAN 119]

With regard to Versian names:
The most likely scenario, in my opinion, given that Rayet has a surname, is that, like in modern society, surnames are universal, however, the Versian nobility tend to go by their title and first name, as karice stated, rather like most modern royalty. Also, it is possible that, at least for Saazbaum, that is his surname, given that Slaine is now known as Slaine Saazbaum Troyard.

As for the unusual names, they mostly seem to be hodgepodge of syllables commonly used in German (Saazbaum), French (Rayet), Latin (Rayregalia), and other European languages. The most likely reason for them taking up these strange names is as an attempt to culturally distance themselves from Earth, kind of like a more extreme version of the American "modifications" to the English language (color vs colour etc), which were originally invented the Americans to culturally distance themselves from Britain.

At least in the case of those Vers who were originally from Earth, it is likely that they originally possessed a different name (an idea I used in my currently-on-hiatus fanfic, where Rayregalia Vers Rayvers' was born Raymond Versian)

Edit: Averagefan already pointed this out

As for controlling the commoner populace, assuming Aldnoah does not have limited mind control powers as Murphy suggests, I suspect a lot of it comes down to propaganda, both in the form of proclaiming Martian superiority and blaming the UE on their lack of resources and poverty, but also making the Vers nobles seem far more powerful than they actually are.

Sure, when they are in their Kataphrakts, they can devastate entire armies, but, even during war, and especially during peacetime, they seem to spend most of their time outside of their Kataphrakts. A well-planned, sudden uprising on the level of French or Russian Revolution would likely catch most of the Vers nobles outside of their Kataphrakts, where they could easily eliminated. Even if some did get into their Kats, assuming the Vers Empire has a commoner population of at least a several million, and probably tens or even hundreds of millions, with a little planning and knowledge of the Kataphrakt's weaknesses, I see no reason why they would not be overwhelmed and disabled by sneak attacks by infantry with rocket launchers or IEDs- that or running out of supplies- if their bases are taken, even if Aldnoah doesn't need to be refueled, the operator would eventually succumb to dehydration, hunger, or fatigue.

Because of this, I think the Vers Empire is almost certainly taking measures to create a facade of invincibility of the nobility and Aldnoah. Any weaknesses of the Kataphrakts are almost certainly kept from the general public (although Rayet seems to know about, or have figured out Argyre's), and, I suspect early opposition to Rayregalia's rule, which there must have been, given the origin of many of the colonists from either the democratic west or the communist Soviet Union, who probably would not take kindly to a resurgence of feudalism, was brutally crushed to make an example of them, and to perpetuate the myth that Vers Kataphrakts, and by extension their operators are invincible. This is further seen in the hologram of Rayregalia on his throne, to conceal the fact that he is actually bedridden and barely clinging to life.

[vic-vic]

I think that Versian common folks also realise that Nobles IS powerful military force of their country and that without them Vers would be forced to meet the wrath of venegful Earthlings head-on... with VERY unpleasant result for them.

I REALLY doubt that after all horros of Heavens Fall and then invasion, combinied with grief over the lost lives, Earth soldiers would try to distinguish nobles and non-nobles of Vers. I thin if opportunity would rise UEF forces would simply go at Kill Em All route.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

With regard to Versian names:
The most likely scenario, in my opinion, given that Rayet has a surname, is that, like in modern society, surnames are universal, however, the Versian nobility tend to go by their title and first name, as karice stated, rather like most modern royalty. Also, it is possible that, at least for Saazbaum, that is his surname, given that Slaine is now known as Slaine Saazbaum Troyard.

As for the unusual names, they mostly seem to be hodgepodge of syllables commonly used in German (Saazbaum), French (Rayet), Latin (Rayregalia), and other European languages. The most likely reason for them taking up these strange names is as an attempt to culturally distance themselves from Earth, kind of like a more extreme version of the American "modifications" to the English language (color vs colour etc), which were originally invented the Americans to culturally distance themselves from Britain.

At least in the case of those Vers who were originally from Earth, it is likely that they originally possessed a different name (an idea I used in my currently-on-hiatus fanfic, where Rayregalia Vers Rayvers' was born Raymond Versian)

I would think that perhaps the other Martians were only just using their surnames, but then, if you look at their bios they are only given single names. That is, except members of the royal house, who do have surnames that deal with Vers. So, actually it's kind of opposite in this country in that it's the royalty that have surnames, but the nobles and commoners that don't. Remember that even the servants like Eddelrittuo and Harklight only seem to have one name as well, so it's not like it's just something that the nobles do.

As for Rayet and her father, they're the only ones other than the royal family that have full names. And actually, I'm wondering if perhaps that was simply because they were a spy cell on earth and they needed two names to provide as cover? Even when Rayet's father communicated with Vers, he only used his first name.

As for where names come from, Rayregalia's name is the most simple to figure out. His original name was Ray Regalia. He just fused it together to be a single first name and then mixed Vers with his original name to be his surname. However, other characters, some that by reference to their ages in comparison to the timeline, had to have been born originally on Earth and have lived there for a few years before coming to Mars, have singular alien names now, that aren't put together in any understandable way. People like Saazbaum and Cruhteo.

Very few of the Martians actually have normal names, like Vlad and even Harklight, Wolf, and Rayet, are actual names. So it's interesting how these names got formed and some are normal while others are totally alien.

Originally Posted by vic-vic

I think that Versian common folks also realise that Nobles IS powerful military force of their country and that without them Vers would be forced to meet the wrath of venegful Earthlings head-on... with VERY unpleasant result for them.

I REALLY doubt that after all horros of Heavens Fall and then invasion, combinied with grief over the lost lives, Earth soldiers would try to distinguish nobles and non-nobles of Vers. I thin if opportunity would rise UEF forces would simply go at Kill Em All route.

I don't think it's really fear in that sense, since the overall belief of the people both noble and common is that Terrans are beneath them and subhuman in comparison to them. Only a few like Saazbaum and Harklight think differently. And even then, while Saazbaum did think Terran to be equal, he did think that Vers deserved the Earth over Terrans. So, I doubt there's any overall fear from the Martians of the Terrans.

I think however, that the nobles do of course hold all the power, and that includes the military might, but even more so, they control Aldnoah, which controls pretty much everything on Vers. The nobles probably own and control all the power that is able to get what few resources of food and water and air from Mars, and they control all distribution. If you want the basic necessities, as a commoner, you would have to get what you need from the noble, and probably pay for it through your labor.

The feudal system of Vers is very similar to what it was centuries ago in Europe, when there was only really two classes: the noble rich and the very poor. And you had serfs that would work for the nobles and get the basic necessities in return, and they depended on the feudal lords for everything from where to live to protection from enemies. However, such a system allow little to no opportunity to change classes. So, everything basically stays the same in such a stagnated system.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Wolf, and Rayet, are actual names.

These two are named after a star.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by azarhal

These two are named after a star.

Oh, I know, but that star was named after two guys, so therefore real names.