Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

That's better and clearer. Thanks.

But it's still not a tsundere. So the writer is just incompetent, that's nice to know and explains the problems of the show in general.

And I still disagree. I can even point out the screenshots that show him being "tsun," but I know some of you will still argue that it doesn't show anything because it's not expressive as you think a 'tsun person' should be.

So I really don't see the point of continuing this debate.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by karice67

And I still disagree. I can even point out the screenshots that show him being "tsun," but I know some of you will still argue that it doesn't show anything because it's not expressive as you think a 'tsun person' should be are.

So I really don't see the point of continuing this debate.

But you can't be tsundere without the dere, if you don't have the dere then isn't just a person who dislikes another?

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

And I still disagree. I can even point out the screenshots that show him being "tsun," but I know some of you will still argue that it doesn't show anything because it's not expressive as you think a 'tsun person' should be are.

So I really don't see the point of continuing this debate.

Tsun indicates hostile and volatile temper.

If cold or seemly indifferent, kuudere.
If quiet or seemly indifferent/emotionless in a calm way, dandere.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

But you can't be tsundere without the dere, if you don't have the dere then isn't just a person who dislikes another?

The definition of "tsuntsun" in the West is not exactly the same as how it is used in Japan.

From one of the two big dictionaries (Daijirin):

とりすましていて愛敬のないさま。また，機嫌が悪くて無愛想なさま。つんけん。

Having a composed appearance that doesn't show any signs of enjoyment etc. Or, appearing to be surly / in a bad mood. Crabby or unsociable.

The way that 'tsun' has come across into the West is that it focuses just on the second half of that definition.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

The definition of "tsuntsun" in the West is not exactly the same as how it is used in Japan.

From one of the two big dictionaries (Daijirin):


Having a composed appearance that doesn't show any signs of enjoyment etc. Or, appearing to be surly / in a bad mood. Crabby or unsociable.

The way this has come across into the West is that it focuses just on the second half of that definition.

Because there's two types that aren't tsundere to describe the former. I'm sticking with the writer being incompetent which explains the trainwreck in general.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

Because there's two types that aren't tsundere to describe the former. I'm sticking with the writer being incompetent which explains the trainwreck in general.

If you want to ask Takayama how he has used the word, as opposed to how Western fans use the word, then go ahead.

And the writer has created the character he describes. It just doesn't fit with what you think that character should be.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

If you want to ask Takayama how he has used the word, as opposed to how Western fans use the word, then go ahead.

No need. It takes a few concerns out of my mind:

I'm sticking with the writer being incompetent which explains the trainwreck in general.

[frodonk]

So I just watched this from ep4 to 10, and some observations:

1. I thought this would be more than 12 episode, I guess I was wrong.

2. They kept referring to that scene where they found the flying submarine, they made it so that there's something else there aside from the martian kataract mecha and the battleship, what else did they found under there? Or maybe I just didn't pay enough attention and there really is nothing there aside from those 2.

3. People are making connections about orlane being the mother of inaho (and her sister), purely though what? hair color? character design? Unless I missed something entirely I don't think that's a very strong connection to the theory that inaho is a martian.

4. I know I'm bringing up an old observation, but Inaho is still as robotic as the last time I saw him, he never changed at all, even her sister had to make excuses for his perpetually -_- face!

5. Slaine's actions would probably make or break this series in the final 2 episodes, too bad I don't think we'll see who the princess will point that gun to, like they kept showing us in the OP.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by karice67

I personally don't think Inaho ever thought of her as an 'asset'. Sure, at the end of episode 4, he knew that she was the key to ending the war, but ending the war is what Asseylum wanted to do as well, so why would he consider helping her accomplish something they both want as 'using her'?

As for Inaho's "I wasn't fighting for you" in episode 8 and the "It's because there's a war going on" in episode 10: I think that those lines are just about him hiding his real reason for fighting. Whether it's because he wants to hide it, or because he hasn't actually realised that he's fighting because he wants to protect her.

Takayama (current script writer) didn't call him a "tsudere without the dere" for nothing.

The show I think tried to be ambiguous about that. But yes at this point more or less I agree with you here, that's why I wrote to be not so sure about it anymore If we consider also what he said to Rayet, that he doesn't care about her being Martian or Earthing, this adds up with him taking her as just Seylum-san (not even Princess Asseylum), other than giving us an important insight of him.

About the rest of your post I concur with you. He is obviously trying to hide it, for whatever reason. Is he aware of it? I'm leaning toward the fact he is, but probably not. His last excuse was far less put together than the first one, that already had a clear hole about the timing of him being drafted. In this episode he could just say it was for war. Not very strong as an excuse. And in fact Seylum saw through him and so reconsidered his previous responses. The first time he "lied" she was surprised, this time she understood him, or part of how he is.
About the tsundere, I'm not very knowledge about it so I leave it to Thess , the sole thing I noted, but I don't now if it fits or it's just an impression of mine either, is that his dere side shows up in a peculiar way. Pushing him being more and more accurate and meticulous, as he was when CPR'd the Princess.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by karice67

The definition of "tsuntsun" in the West is not exactly the same as how it is used in Japan.

From one of the two big dictionaries (Daijirin):


Having a composed appearance that doesn't show any signs of enjoyment etc. Or, appearing to be surly / in a bad mood. Crabby or unsociable.

The way that 'tsun' has come across into the West is that it focuses just on the second half of that definition.

Oh I see, I actually didn't know that.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by frodonk

So I just watched this from ep4 to 10, and some observations:

1. I thought this would be more than 12 episode, I guess I was wrong.

2. They kept referring to that scene where they found the flying submarine, they made it so that there's something else there aside from the martian kataract mecha and the battleship, what else did they found under there? Or maybe I just didn't pay enough attention and there really is nothing there aside from those 2.

3. People are making connections about orlane being the mother of inaho (and her sister), purely though what? hair color? character design? Unless I missed something entirely I don't think that's a very strong connection to the theory that inaho is a martian.

4. I know I'm bringing up an old observation, but Inaho is still as robotic as the last time I saw him, he never changed at all, even her sister had to make excuses for his perpetually -_- face!

5. Slaine's actions would probably make or break this series in the final 2 episodes, too bad I don't think we'll see who the princess will point that gun to, like they kept showing us in the OP.

Answers:
1. It's spilt 2 cours, so it will stop in the middle(ep12?) and then perhaps one season later you'll see the 2nd part.

2. Marito's trauma scene only shows the mecha, no flying ship is shown. So you don't know there's a ship before ep7, and you don't know why is it so traumatic until ep9. The trauma subplot hasn't ended so it is still not clear about the importance of it.

3. Partly because of character design, and partly because people are looking for more reason for Inaho to gain access to Aldnoah drive. Though I think he may gain access from the princess sooner or later.

4. Well, he's just hard to read, but his sister is most probably right about him. There are some discussion going on about his changes. IMO, the actual behavior and personal driving force is the key to reading him. The first turning point is the death of a friend in ep2, and the second turning point is ep4 where he fights for the princess.

5. You don't know. She may need to pull the gun to keep someone alive? Perhaps the gun pointing scene is just a symbol of what the princess need to face or change.

[Solace]

I've gutted the thread a bit, to reset discussion. Thread reopened, talk about the episode and move the character discussion to the appropriate threads.

Thanks!

[Guido]

I should learn to control and temper my emotions, because what was said and done as recounted by Saazbaum in this episodes has happened and continues to happen even in real life.

In war anything applies and what's regarded as morally reprobable by one side holds the truth for the other side.

When constantly feed with lies over and over, then people eventually come to accept them as truth without giving second thoughts about the matter. And, that's how the first step is won by charismatic leaders to have the full support of an entire people at mercy in order to do war.

It's clear to me that AldNoah delivers a message in two directions: an anti-war message, and as well a message against arrogance.

Ultimately, people who commit atrocious deeds in name of any ideology, creed, irrational mindset, or even rational thought process eventually will have it bounce back on them. Unfortunately, other third parties that have nothing to do in the conflict will as well be dragged and be inflicted devastating, collateral damage.

The Knights paid for that unabated arrogance of theirs with their lives when the HyperGate exploded on the day of Heaven's Fall, and lost more than what they could handle; their way back home, stranded in between Earth's orbit.

Worse is that them being victims of the stupid mentality and education of their homeworld continue to blame the Earth for their mishaps, and cannot realize that they are at fault for the choices they made.

The Princess is yet another of countless victims, but she needs to realize even deeper that her naivety doesn't help her to truly see the magnitude of the problem.
The war is going to be fought, until the last of consequences because people like Saazbaum are pushing for nothing less than a win or die mentality.

And, I have every right to be afraid of what the UE high command on Earth would start to have in mind now that the Deucalion, housing AldNoah drive with the Princess onboard, reached their stronghold.

Stupidity will perpetuate itself, and the possible scenario of an Earth turned into a bleak, ruined, apocalyptic world is not far away from the corner...


As quoted by Sumire Muroto from the anime Black Bullet.....

"If you have two fools fighting over a cup of water in the midst of a desert, what would you do in order to stop further conflict. You destroy the cup."

However, the implications to destroy the object of strife weigh down on the object itself.

In the case of AldNoah, this is a war of humans against humans over Earth, and the Earth becoming an apocalyptic wasteland as a result of many bitter outcomes in order to finish the war would result epic-proportional to a pyrrhic result.