[Anime] Episode 51: ...

[jpwong]

Here's just a quick little link to a short summery of Karl Haushofer.
http://www.bookrags.com/biography/karl-haushofer/

What's probably relevent is

Spoiler:

"Joining the staff of Munich University in 1921, he quickly became, as the major general-professor-doctor, a respected figure."

Guess who Hohenheim is talking to in munich. It's Karl Haushofer. If you don't believe me, do a google image search of his name and compare a photo to the anime.

[ShinRaKurisu]

Thank you for clearing up that for me dreamless.

I wonder what the connection is with Envy and Final Fantasy VII

What if we see Leviathan (could be Envy) in Advent Children

Lol

EDIT: typos

[JOJOS'STAR]

Originally Posted by dreamless

Err... to make something clear, Ouroboros practically means a snake/dragon/serpent/whatever biting its tail, as Ouroboros is greek for "devouring its tail", and since Envy was not biting its own tail, so we can't call it Ouroboros. Ouroboros is not a type of snake/serpent/dragon/whatever, rather it's the "biting its own tail" part that matters. So if a snake bites its own tail, it can be called Ouroboros, if a dragon bites its own tail, it can be called Ouroboros, if Leviathan from FF7 bites its own tail, it can be called Ouroboros...

So Envy is definitely NOT Ouroboros at that time, I don't know if he'll go on to bite his own tail to form an Ouroboros or not, but I doubt it (since he's straight travelling towards the exit). Besides if I remember correctly, the head and tail of the dragon/serpent/snake/whatever Envy transformed into looks quite like the Leviathan summon of FF7, and now that I think more, I seem to recall that the FF7 Leviathan is green in color too... Anyone can help find a good FF7 Leviathan pic?

The point about Ouroboros is not that he simply bit his tail but actualy swallow it. Makes it a quite complexe symbole of infinity. The Snake eat himself till no end.. thats about it..

[EnergyRift]

It definitely was a way to clean ending.. I mean sure.. we all enjoy them.. but.. it was.. too clean.. Roy.. c'mon.. =/ I was like, OH NO ROY IS DEAD!! But then they bring him back to life after seeing his bloody body.. it was like.. whoopie? >.>; The vagueness with the bad guys leaves for good opportunities.. but.. I kinda wanted to see a Winry Ed thing.. but no.. they are in seperate worlds.. long distant relationships work out, right? It was just.. too happy for me, I expected a little darker, because it was like.. everyone lives in the end.. >.>;

As for the whole Envy thing.. Yes.. Ouroboros is the biting of the tail thing.. but WHY DO YOU HAVE TO GET SO FREAKING SCIENTIFICAL ABOUT IT? Maybe he's just the creature from the mark itself, which was on the freaking homunculus.. So we called him a freaking Ouroboros.. but Oh no.. he's all not biting his tail, no way.. I think getting to literal is a bad thing in this case, I think he's the Snake/Serpent/Dragon of the Ouroboros, which is probably what they meant for him to be, so it wasn't so random. But showing him eating his own tail, would have been a little too weird, so we can conclude it was an elusion towards the actual thing. So he's not the literal Ouroboros meaning.. he's.. the creature.. in it.. -.-;

[babbitblob]

well remember, in episode, the priest had that weird dream w/ the serpent rising from the ouroboros symbol, but that one was red. :P

[krem]

it was a relatively good epsiode, and one of the better bones jobs when it comes to endings. as mentioned, i felt some of the stuff that happened was far too convenient, such as

Spoiler:

pride dying, archer being shot to death, roy surviving, al getting his body back after sacrificing himself, and ed trying to do the same and still ending up alive

having said all that, it bodes well for the movie in some respects as i expected it to end up as a flashback movie, however, the end of episode 51 provides a different slant, and that is

Spoiler:

ed and al's search to find each other, within it taking two years perhaps for ed to managing to create a rocket of some sort and al to re-learn alchemy

so there may not be any fights to speak of in the movie, and instead, possibly, taking on a more philosophical tone with the struggle to reach their goals and such. In part the ending is a cop out, and the movie is just dragging out the obvious, on the other hand for fan's it will be closure, hopefully with an actual, complete ending. So not a bad episode, but not as good as I hoped for.

[Shigan]

I'm sorry if this will be an ignorant question, but wasn't FMA supposed to be 52 episodes? 51 sure looked like an ending.

[Proto]

and one of the better bones jobs when it comes to endings

Which isn't saying much anyway

[Spastic_Hobo]

Originally Posted by Shigan

I'm sorry if this will be an ignorant question, but wasn't FMA supposed to be 52 episodes? 51 sure looked like an ending.

There's only 51. That's the end.

[Anita-chan]

wah, thought babee roy mustang died but he nvr soooo ......... :P:P:P:P pretty good ending i'd say cant wait till the movie now ^^ i wanna see how ed and al meet hehe!

Shigan: theres 51 episodes and 1 movie coming soon making it a almighty 52 ^^

[Proto]

I'm sorry if this will be an ignorant question, but wasn't FMA supposed to be 52 episodes? 51 sure looked like an ending.

They do are 52 chapters... its just that there is a chapter 0 around....i think

[OMchan]

I remember watching something that was labelled "Episode 0" or something like that a long time ago. It was subbed in Chinese.... and all I can remember is Paku Romi and Kugimiya Rie talking and also an old man.

[Xikius]

I liked this ending a lot, since it reflected what the whole series is about (to me, anyway). This show began and ended being about brotherly love, wanting to do whatever it takes to help the other, no matter the danger involved.

Spoiler:

They both sacrificed themselves at the end for the other to live on. The end showed the reason they will continue on, is because of the love between them.

This show was about the journey they went through for each other. The alchemy, homonculi, army, Ishbal, and all the rest took a back seat to this theme. I have no doubt in mind that if there were no Elric brothers in this story, it would have only been of partial interest to me, but as it turns out, Full Metal Alchemist is now one of my all time favorite shows.

[Kelya]

Well the most perfect ending ever

Spoiler:

The RoyxRiza moment was just too great =3
The moments were just too perfect ...and i like the wa Roy kill Pride (somehow similar in chap 39)
I like how the ending let us think about the upcoming movie...Envy, Warth...Glut'n Dante...
Its just that such a great series came to an end but well ...

Is it me or Ed looks more and more like a chick *runs*

[-|(aGe-BuNsHiN-]

I don't know about you guys but that ending was a little too happy for me. They should have left at least Al dead. Oh wellz the movie better be good....its coming in 2005 right? Anyone know like the exact month or season at least?

Also, did any1 else feel some kind of romance thing between Winry and Al at the end?

Spoiler:

when Al is leaving on the train, Winry keeps on telling him to come back safely with that face....and that kind of gave me the feeling that Winry chose Al over Ed....

PLEASE prove me WRONG

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by EnergyRift

As for the whole Envy thing.. Yes.. Ouroboros is the biting of the tail thing.. but WHY DO YOU HAVE TO GET SO FREAKING SCIENTIFICAL ABOUT IT? Maybe he's just the creature from the mark itself, which was on the freaking homunculus.. So we called him a freaking Ouroboros.. but Oh no.. he's all not biting his tail, no way.. I think getting to literal is a bad thing in this case, I think he's the Snake/Serpent/Dragon of the Ouroboros, which is probably what they meant for him to be, so it wasn't so random. But showing him eating his own tail, would have been a little too weird, so we can conclude it was an elusion towards the actual thing. So he's not the literal Ouroboros meaning.. he's.. the creature.. in it.. -.-;

It's okay if you want to put it that way, but still the question is... why does Envy's "Ouroboros creature" look like the FF7 summon Leviathan? Lust's Ouroboros creature looks very different in that regard... I can't help but think it's maybe some little "easter egg" put in by SquareEnix

Originally Posted by killermonk

Here is one. Yeah, I do notice similarities. Maybe you're correct...

thanks a lot... nice pic... Also I remember seeing a conceptual art of FF7 Leviathan somewhere... but can't remember the adress... oh well

Originally Posted by -|(aGe-BuNsHiN-

Also, did any1 else feel some kind of romance thing between Winry and Al at the end?

Spoiler:

when Al is leaving on the train, Winry keeps on telling him to come back safely with that face....and that kind of gave me the feeling that Winry chose Al over Ed....

PLEASE prove me WRONG

Regarding Winry and romance and things,

Spoiler:

yup it looks like she's now closer to Al (both physically and mentally) than Ed. But then Al has to grow up a bit first... he's 10 year old, Winry is... 15? 16? well, anyone else noticed that she's got quite a nice body in the epilogue, especially in the dinner scene, she's well competing against Roze and Izumi

Interestingly, in the manga chapter 39 there's also a big Winry-Al development. with all those "welcome back", "I'm back" talk

[Scrumhalf]

Originally Posted by Kelya

Well the most perfect ending ever

Spoiler:

The RoyxRiza moment was just too great =3
The moments were just too perfect ...and i like the wa Roy kill Pride (somehow similar in chap 39)
I like how the ending let us think about the upcoming movie...Envy, Warth...Glut'n Dante...
Its just that such a great series came to an end but well ...

Is it me or Ed looks more and more like a chick *runs*

Ed looks more and more like a chick? A very muscular chick?

Yea it's just you.

[Scrumhalf]

Originally Posted by -|(aGe-BuNsHiN-

I don't know about you guys but that ending was a little too happy for me. They should have left at least Al dead. Oh wellz the movie better be good....its coming in 2005 right? Anyone know like the exact month or season at least?

Also, did any1 else feel some kind of romance thing between Winry and Al at the end?

Spoiler:

when Al is leaving on the train, Winry keeps on telling him to come back safely with that face....and that kind of gave me the feeling that Winry chose Al over Ed....

PLEASE prove me WRONG

Spoiler:

No. Al as a 10-year-old would finally rub out any suggestions of a possible Al x Winry relationship. Sorry fangirls.
I didn't see any romance during that Winry & Al scene. Why can't a sister blush towards her younger brother?
IMO Ed x Winry is still strong & possible, leading up to a movie.
I also have a strong feeling a Winry x Ed x Rose triangle will own up.

Spoiler for Hohenheim:

My prediction: Hohenheim is a spy for the United Kingdom while in Munich, Germany, with Edward. Surely.
Why would he be scheduled at a meeting with Winston Churchill (Ep 49?) at the first place?

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

Spoiler for Hohenheim:

My prediction: Hohenheim is a spy for the United Kingdom while in Munich, Germany, with Edward. Surely.
Why would he be scheduled at a meeting with Winston Churchill (Ep 49?) at the first place?

Yup it really makes sense, I love this theory... and judging from their obsession after the supernatural and advanced technology, maybe we can see some Indiana Jones action in the move

However there's still one thing bothering me, which is the time travel or the lack thereof stuff about Ed

Spoiler for time travel or not?:

So do you think Ed really time travelled inside the Gate 5 years into the future or time flows differently on both sides, or that the epilogue about Ed is just 5 years after he arrived in the "real world"? I'm more inclined to think that it's just Ed living 5 years in the "real world", but then that put the statement of "the movie happens 2 years after the series" into question. does that mean the movie happens 2 years after the Ed's epilogue or Al's epilogue, because in this case 2 years after Ed's epilogue means 7 years after Al's epilogue already (well I guess that leaves Al with plenty of time to re-master Alchemy)

I don't really like the time flows differently idea... sounds too much like Tokyo Jupiter in RahXephon, not to mention if such a short amount of time (Ed basically get back to FMA world, get killed, get revived, get to the "real world" again in just moments) in FMA world means 5 years in "real world", that means Hohenheim must have lived in the real world for quite some time, maybe several decades, between Hohenheim sent to "real world" by Dante and Ed first trip to "real world". Does that mean FMA characters become immortals in "real world"

There are definitely too much things happened too conveniently in the ending like

Spoiler:

Gluttony goes after the elevator and Dante but leaving Roze and Ed alone? Of course there's the Pride going idiotic and lunatic and killing Selim that I have mentioned, and an apparently dead Mustang revive, and Al reset, things like that

For Al and Winry romance idea, well, don't dump it too easily yet,

Spoiler:

if the FMA movie indeed happens 7 years after Al's epilogue scene, that means Al will be 17 year old and Winry 22 years old, and it will be perfectly okay for them to develop a relationship then (I'm still in shock that Winry can have a body competing Izumi's at only 15 year old... I can't wait to see how she will look like when she' 22 )

[Tae]

Spoiler for Question about Ed:

Okay, so Al gave back Ed's arm & leg along with his life. Ed has his real arm and leg when he was in London. So why does Ed have automail now that he's back in London? Did I miss something somewhere?