(L) UQ Holder (Ken Akamatsu's new series)

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

That's why Akamatsu has to resort to already existing characters we DID care about, the Negima crew, to generate any tension and interest. When you can't really worry about your own cast (either because they're too undeveloped, unsympathetic or overpowered to feel like they ever could be in danger) and you have to borrow a prior cast to keep stakes the reader can feel involved with, there you have a real problem with your storyline.

I personally fail to see that powercreep became an issue that everyone should be paranoid about it that it prevent new character included as new antagonists.

A number of works already do that, and managed to score good as long the writer is capable of telling it properly; Hunter x Hunter is one good example of it.
Powercreep happened, but it doesn't mean stronger, already established, characters like Netero and Gen'ei Ryodan gone with ease as they have experience to cover their strength when it comes stronger enemies in front of them. Showing that their strength is real like what it has been told to this date, so even if they ended up lose, its not an embarrassing defeat result of powercreep.

I already said it, as implied by dragon1412 too, Dana is living proof of that.
Say what you want, still its fact that Dana stand as example of overpowered new character that reader can care about.
If Akamatsu want to actually try and just move on, UQ Holder can be one interesting new journey with old characters acting as mentor rather than old characters taking screentime of new characters.

Borrowing Negima characters for easy entry to reader hearts is OK, but keep pushing all the Negi - Ialda, recycling Negima to this point is no good.
You said that people can be didn't care about the casts because underdeveloped, etc can be said as result of such writing; he recycle Negima so hard that he made whole UQ Holder members potential to deliver new excitement, new side of Negima world wasted. With current development, I personally won't consider it as good writing unlike what you said.

On writing side regarding powercreep itself, as said by other member, please remember it didn't took 10 years for Negi to be on par with Nagi.
If so, why villains can not get that kind of luxury? Like, say, an Averruncus-level antagonist spent years of training, managed to became Ialda-level threat? That way definitely will deliver us antagonists that more threatening than Ialda even if his strength is still on Ialda-level, in case everyone scared of powercreep.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Wow, it's like you didn't actually read through my post at all. I said it there, the powercreep itself wouldn't be as much of an issue if there were other issues consistently remarked upon that gave on a sense of stakes beyond mere direct physical confrontation.

The 'prejudice against immortals' would be a workable angle-- the X-Men have made a regular motif of that. It is the kind of character conflict you can't just kick and punch through-- just overpowering those who hate you will only make them hate you even more.

There was a bit of that in UQ Holder with the immortal hunters, but for 100 chapters it's been irrelevant, immortals live in a luxury spa with no pressing day to day worries about THEIR survival, and like the recent arc showed, most of them would just shrug off and say 'well, that's unfortunate, but nothing we can do' if thousands of mortals did die. UQ Holder has concentrated into only three things of late: Negima, power escalation leading to typical shounen fighting with little actual strategy (and any strategy is too reliant on Kirie's cheat now), and cheap fanservice (most of it the loli variety, to make it worse). That leaves little room for stakes since by now we're used to Akamatsu not delivering romantically and the characters have too many ways around being seriously and permanently hurt or killed, leaving too much dramatic weight on the Negima cast, most of whom are long dead by now, and the rest barely showing up out of flashbacks and derails from the main story, Eva excluded.

Negi taking so little time to catch up to Nagi had two caveats, since you bring it up. The first being, by making him more powerful than the rest of his team combined, it made them mostly redundant and useless, and that hurt them as characters and the series-- which had been an ensemble cast story with an emphasis on teamwork-- until then. The second being, it was supposed to come with a high price, a cheat with a double edge, even if it was mostly glossed over later on, when the whole plot came down to pieces. Most UQ Holder characters don't even have that issue, they're just walking cheap codes with no downsides, which ends up feeling like a recurring copout.

You said that people can be didn't care about the casts because underdeveloped, etc can be said as result of such writing; he recycle Negima so hard that he made whole UQ Holder members potential to deliver new excitement, new side of Negima world wasted. With current development, I personally won't consider it as good writing unlike what you said.

... I have no actual idea what is being argued in this segment. Sorry.

Say what you want, still its fact that Dana stand as example of overpowered new character that reader can care about.

I like Dana myself, and she certainly is popular among most English fans I've seen, but it doesn't seem like she ranks too high on the Japanese popularity polls, IIRC. Just mentioning that since you bring popularity up.

EDIT: To make a long story short, power escalation on its own is not an issue AS LONG AS it's logically grounded on the setting's 'ruleset' (and the Negimaverse makes that hard since Ialda has been consistently treated as the ceiling for a while now, although there are ways around it, like the Venus mazoku Zazie hails from. They've certainly been around as a concept longer than the relatively recent retcon of the vampire lords who never do anything until the special snowflake lead shows up in their radar Because Reasons), and as long as the power escalation is NOT the only way to provide stakes and odds to overcome for a cast of protagonists.

[Sixth]

^ You know what? If only the writer sticks to the original UQ plot about Immortal instead of introducing Negima characters as villains. We may get the UQ Holder version of Sentinel; a robot that created by humanity to kill Immortal.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Heck, Powerful Hand (that was their name, right?) at first struck me to be a Sentinel-like team themselves, beings who either turned themselves inhuman just to have enough power to attack inhumans, or inhumans turned against their kin. There's a lot of potential there, and on things like the magus/non-magus discrimination, and Kuromaru's tribe (who also seem to target immortals if their hunt of Evangeline was any indication-- and what happened to that anyway? After one of them failed and was seduced away by the enemy, did they just give up like that? Lame!), but sadly the story can't follow on anything but the issue of Touta's legacy because God forbid anything NOT gravitating around the Springfield family ever.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Sixth

He doesn't have too. Just introduce enemy that have same strength with Eva/Fate, but in numbers. They could always have Eva fighting another Eva level enemy, and whether she won or lose, she can't help Tota and others to fight the next lesser Eva enemy due to her injury state and etc.

If you read Jojo, the enemy pretty much had the same strength and durability with the main character and party...it is just that they are just more tricky to beat.

That to me is power creep. The previous show introduced the pinacle of power (which pretty much was Eva and Negi and like), and it was a pretty small group.

Suddenly pulling the same level of fighters in numbers defeats what was previously said and also pretty much makes useless anyone who was NOT in that pinnacle. Unless you then introduce a thingimajig that boosts the protagonists and like and there we go, couple arcs later we are throwing planets at each other.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Yes, powercreep would be pretty poor solution, but you shouldn't forget that from very begenning story was meant to be Eva-centered and equal (if not more important) to Touta. Sidelining her would defeat whole purpose of UQH.

Eva might have been meant to be more central, but if anything she is supposed to be a potential end goal, like that "I want to climb the space elevator" bit was. Touta wants to become strong/successful enough to climb the elevator and to be acknowledged by Eva.

That to me doesn't mean she needs to be joined at hip with Toute, and she wasn't during the initial arcs before this all became "Negima 2: psyche not really".

--------------

PS:
Yeah I also have no beef with Dana. But it's mostly because she is in the wise mentor role and it's been stated over and over again she is not going to solve their problems for them. So she can have her ridiculously OP moments, but she doesn't warrant introduction of even more broken opponents just to check her, since she won't take part for one reason or another.

Although I might see her involved if existence of all mortals is at stake, but not from altruism, but more because it would be BORING otherwise to be alone with none to whom she can show off.

[Chaserjacksaw]

Just notice it...
There is a huge art (or slight) change between Negima and UQ Holder!.

the art change looks so obvious when looking at Evangeline's loli form. She is much more of a beauty in Negima! compare to her UQ counter part!

Just Like her eyes... What the heck happen to her Tsurime villian like eyes in Negima!! Her eyes in UQ especialy in her loli form looks so creepy that its disturbing. It does not look like her at all!

And sometimes the arms looks way to large that its disturbing.

Did the author change the manga artist?

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Akamatsu lost several assistants. Now he also depends more on computers to draw; IIRC he mostly only does sketches and faces for the pages.

I'd bet the loss of the Tsurime eyes was intentional though, since in UQ Holder Eva is not supposed to ever look 'villainous', like back when she was actually fun and ran stupid pretenses of being the ultimate boss of evil.

Also, regarding this latest chapter, Chachamaru just lost her best friend in the bad timeline. Why isn't she visiting her (former?) Master along Negi here? It baffles me how much Holder underdevelops her. She has such important ties to Eva (who is still around), Negi (who still must be saved and whose grandson is the new lead) and to Chisame (who now... must be avenged, I guess) and yet it's like nothing of that matters despite the character STILL BEING RIGHT THERE, USE HER ALREADY, DAMN IT, AKAMATSU.

[silenceblade]

The immortal and time-traveling elements completely ruin this manga. There is no tension, unlike when Negi failed to defeat the mage of the beginning.

Anyway, I am surprise about the situation on earth. It was mentioned that there were several secret organizations on earth with beings such as the school's headmaster. I thought they would take action if the earth was in danger, but seriously Negi has no luck. In the first place, how could Sayo destroy the world with her level of power? You would expect at least someone on Eva's level to destroy the world.

[Tenzen12]

Whether it's immortality or time traveling UQ holder dealt with it pretty well. Both of them have limits and enemies are smart enouogh to use that against holders often. How long it took Negima actually kill someone? Not sure, but with poor Cutlass, I would say Holders are likely in lead.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by silenceblade

The immortal and time-traveling elements completely ruin this manga. There is no tension, unlike when Negi failed to defeat the mage of the beginning.

Anyway, I am surprise about the situation on earth. It was mentioned that there were several secret organizations on earth with beings such as the school's headmaster. I thought they would take action if the earth was in danger, but seriously Negi has no luck. In the first place, how could Sayo destroy the world with her level of power? You would expect at least someone on Eva's level to destroy the world.

In Negima, there are zero casualties in the "save Asuna" arc despite that most of those girls are fodder with almost zero experience of fighting.

[4th Dimension]

Yeeah. Casualties was never a thing in Negima, and that shouldn't have been expected to be in UQ what with the immortality and like.

Hell even the Asuna bit there at the end, where she would need to leave her friends felt kinda out of nowhere forced.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Negima started a romantic comedy and always kept elements of one. Starting to kill characters off at some point would have been more or less like start killing people off in Ranma, or doing the 'Hinata Girls put Keitaro in a coma' arc in Love Hina, although I'd really kinda have liked to see the latter.

Genre shifts are always dangerous bets. It takes a lot of skill to pull them off successfully.

Hell even the Asuna bit there at the end, where she would need to leave her friends felt kinda out of nowhere forced.

After that I've always wondered if the Negima XEBEC final anime arc with all of the 'Asuna dies by random demon, let's go back in time to save her' crap was Akamatsu's own idea for the anime staff and later redone with several changes for the manga, or if Akamatsu, when forced to pull off a hasty finale for the manga, swiped an idea, ill conceived as it was, from the anime writers and reworked it as he saw fit.

It was mentioned that there were several secret organizations on earth with beings such as the school's headmaster. I thought they would take action if the earth was in danger,

Authorities in the Negimaverse were always incompetent (the wise and powerful magecracy who needed a ten year old boy to beat their enemies for them and come up with an idea to save their world for them too) or corrupt (the Megalomesembria Senate), or both (the future governments who spend millions in Space Olympics while half of the world is a Mad Max dystopia, because 'Muh Poverty Distribution', which is a completely illogical concept). Heck, even Konoemon and his staff were incompetent. Despite knowing well how Mahora was a hot spot, the demon attack during Mundus Magicus' climax caught them with their pants all the way down and they ultimately relied on the kids to fight the enemy off. Had those demons been willing to kill instead of only blowing clothes off Mahora would have become a huge slaughterhouse.

[Twi]

To be fair to them, that ten-year old became an immortal powerhouse and was a known genius.

[silenceblade]

The Megalomesembria Senate were the ones behind the attack on Negi's village, yet they faced no punishment for their crimes? Negi is suppose to forgive them? Hell, the responsibility of the Magical world is the red wing's problem, yet they decided to live on earth? They should live in the MW and handle the problem to the end. Negi should only help if he choose to (Asuna is essential so she can't choose not to).

[Twi]

...Didn't Evil Glasses point out that the Shin Meriryuu kid was lying to get Negi angry on purpose?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Twi

...Didn't Evil Glasses point out that the Shin Meriryuu kid was lying to get Negi angry on purpose?

He was lying about his own involvement to get Negi angry at him. He had long since entered and apparently reformed the Senate, but he was telling the truth about what they did to Arika

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

Authorities in the Negimaverse were always incompetent (the wise and powerful magecracy who needed a ten year old boy to beat their enemies for them and come up with an idea to save their world for them too) or corrupt (the Megalomesembria Senate), or both (the future governments who spend millions in Space Olympics while half of the world is a Mad Max dystopia, because 'Muh Poverty Distribution', which is a completely illogical concept). Heck, even Konoemon and his staff were incompetent. Despite knowing well how Mahora was a hot spot, the demon attack during Mundus Magicus' climax caught them with their pants all the way down and they ultimately relied on the kids to fight the enemy off. Had those demons been willing to kill instead of only blowing clothes off Mahora would have become a huge slaughterhouse.

And their so-called elite guards/soldiers went into a panic when they face a demon attack, and those very same demons got dispatched quickly by 14 years old girls in the same chapter.

So yeah, the authority in negimaverse are a big joke.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by Sixth

And their so-called elite guards/soldiers went into a panic when they face a demon attack, and those very same demons got dispatched quickly by 14 years old girls in the same chapter.

So yeah, the authority in negimaverse are a big joke.

how foolish. everyone knows that nothing in this universe or any other is more powerful than the bonds of friendship between 14 year old girls...

[lexlexz]

iis there a extra between 147 and 148?

or is it missing?

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

how foolish. everyone knows that nothing in this universe or any other is more powerful than the bonds of friendship between 14 year old girls...

That's why Negi's party was massacred in the Bad Ending Timeline; they weren't 14 anymore and had lost the source of their powers. Asuna looks like she's 14 forever Because Reasons, so if she sticks around she still brings enough Teenage Power for the rest of the party to survive.