General Discussion on the Shichibukai [Manga]

[AnbuItachi]

highly doubt whitebeard will be that much stronger... kizaru faught evenly with gold roger's right hand man who must be somewhat similar in strength to gold roger.

[Wisshard]

I agree with you to a certein extent, I think Silvers Rayleigh was about as close to Gol D. Roger strength as Roronoa Zoro is to Luffy. However Rayleigh is old and out of combat practice so I don't think he was performing to his full potential against Kizaru.

Personally I find the idea of Whitebeard plowing through a few Shichibukai and one or two Admirals plausible, but I still think he is inevitable to fall from his throne in this war.

Myself I'm quite interesting in what will happen with Crocodile and Mr. 1 (he was my favorite Baroque Work agent) in this arc. Crocodile for me was one of the most intriguing villains, with his past dreams (maybe he still has that ambition) to become the Pirate King and his change from the care-free Crocodile to the cold and calculating Crocodile we meet. I'd like to see more of him, I nourish a hidden hope that he will join the Straw Hats against all odds.

What roll do you think Crocodile will play in the close future and further ahead?

By the way, when I re-read the Miss Goldenweeks mini-arc today I noticed that in one panel Crocodile has two hands.

Spoiler for Two handed Crocodile:

[Rinji]

Hey yeah... although it could be a wooden hand >_>.... (Sorry, I can't help but defend Oda, who is only human and therefore prone to mistakes)

[Wisshard]

I didn't mean to criticize the great genius.

[OtseisRagnarok]

Originally Posted by Wisshard

I agree with you to a certein extent, I think Silvers Rayleigh was about as close to Gol D. Roger strength as Roronoa Zoro is to Luffy. However Rayleigh is old and out of combat practice so I don't think he was performing to his full potential against Kizaru.

Personally I find the idea of Whitebeard plowing through a few Shichibukai and one or two Admirals plausible, but I still think he is inevitable to fall from his throne in this war.

Myself I'm quite interesting in what will happen with Crocodile and Mr. 1 (he was my favorite Baroque Work agent) in this arc. Crocodile for me was one of the most intriguing villains, with his past dreams (maybe he still has that ambition) to become the Pirate King and his change from the care-free Crocodile to the cold and calculating Crocodile we meet. I'd like to see more of him, I nourish a hidden hope that he will join the Straw Hats against all odds.

What roll do you think Crocodile will play in the close future and further ahead?

By the way, when I re-read the Miss Goldenweeks mini-arc today I noticed that in one panel Crocodile has two hands.

Spoiler for Two handed Crocodile:

Did Oda ever say that Croc didn't have that hand? I think the hook was just a weapon. Not a replacement.

As for a carefree crocodile? I'd prefer to think that he was always a cold, calculating bastard.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Rinji

Hey yeah... although it could be a wooden hand >_>.... (Sorry, I can't help but defend Oda, who is only human and therefore prone to mistakes)

It's not Oda's fault, It's one of his assistants fault. Or, at least, this is the proper excuse to explain any mishap or mistake noticed in the series .

Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok

Did Oda ever say that Croc didn't have that hand? I think the hook was just a weapon. Not a replacement.
.

Generally speaking, when you see someone with a hook on their arm, there need be no specific explanation stating whether the individual still retains their hand or not. It is just naturally assumed that the individual does not have a hand anymore, considering the fact that it would be pretty strange to care around a Hook in place of simply using your hand. No, this was probably just a mistake (commented on ages ago).

[OtseisRagnarok]

Originally Posted by james0246

Generally speaking, when you see someone with a hook on their arm, there need be no specific explanation stating whether the individual still retains their hand or not. It is just naturally assumed that the individual does not have a hand anymore, considering the fact that it would be pretty strange to care around a Hook in place of simply using your hand. No, this was probably just a mistake (commented on ages ago).

You'd think that, but this is Oda we're talking about. Basic logic doesn't really apply.
You forget that a Hook can be a weapon on its own, in and of itself. Not to mention how big his hook was, we could logically assume that his hand was inside this Hook.

[Bari_Phillis]

the hook was much bigger and looked like it could fit a hand in the base..

[Marth]

Originally Posted by AnbuItachi

highly doubt whitebeard will be that much stronger... kizaru faught evenly with gold roger's right hand man who must be somewhat similar in strength to gold roger.

True but remember whitebeard was rogers one main rival so i would say he would at least be on admiral level but i'd say he is better than rogers first mate but not as good as rogers himself.

[sjaako]

Originally Posted by AnbuItachi

highly doubt whitebeard will be that much stronger... kizaru faught evenly with gold roger's right hand man who must be somewhat similar in strength to gold roger.

well Rayleigh wasn't on his strongest to me, all he's been doing is drinking.
i don't think that admirals are really that powerfull because they rely to much on the fruits, even more than crocodile. admirals don't even have mussles. whitebeard isn't in his best shape but in better than Rayleigh. he will kick some admiral and some shichibukai

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by sjaako

well Rayleigh wasn't on his strongest to me, all he's been doing is drinking.
i don't think that admirals are really that powerfull because they rely to much on the fruits, even more than crocodile. admirals don't even have mussles. whitebeard isn't in his best shape but in better than Rayleigh. he will kick some admiral and some shichibukai

Sanji doesn't have big muscles like Zoro (who isn't super bulky himself) and they both are pretty powerful,
Mihawk is the strongest swordman and he is pretty slim guy

Whitebeard is half-giant (probably) that's all

the fact that Admirals owns people with their DF abilities, doesn't mean that they're weak withouth them - like Ace that was strong before he became an user

[patnam]

Let's get this...

Kuma - half good half bad
DoFlamingo - unknown (possible on bad side)
Sir Crocodile - bad side (defeated by Luffy and in Impel Town)
Boa Hancock - good side (assisting Luffy in Impel Town)
Mihawk - unknown side
Moria - bad side (down and out)
Jimbei - strongly on good side

[Wolcik]

Originally Posted by patnam

Let's get this...

Kuma - half good half bad
DoFlamingo - unknown (possible on bad side)
Sir Crocodile - bad side (defeated by Luffy and in Impel Town)
Boa Hancock - good side (assisting Luffy in Impel Town)
Mihawk - unknown side
Moria - bad side (down and out)
Jimbei - strongly on good side

+ Blackbeard - bad site

and it's not bad or good, it's more agains or pro Whitebeard in upcoming battle

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

I was reading through the beginning pages in this thread, and I noticed on the first page that someone said "Smoker couldn't beat Crocodile. He said it himself". Does anyone know where this was stated? Because if that's the case, that really says something about how strong Crocodile is. Smoker is a logia user who was able to stalemate with Ace, and for him to not be able to stand up to Crocodile suggests that Crocodile truly is in the top-tier and on par with the other shichibukai. I just wanted to confirm if this is true or not, since Crocodile is greatly underestimated by a lot of fans since he was defeated already.

[Master Mold]

Well if anyone is interested here's what the yellow data book has to say about Doflamingo.

Spoiler:

Donquixote Donflamingo
Caption: Thirsting for a "new age", the epitome of "strength"!!
Character Description
He has a 300 million price on his head and is one of the members of Ouka Shichibukai!! With "Strength is everything" as his ideology, he commands a gang of energetic pirates, with Bellamy as their head. Those who taint his will are not be spared, even if they are his subordinates!!

Top picture description: Opposing views and hindrance, etc. are suppressed by force, in order to impose his will!! This is Donflamingo's belief!!
Middle picture description: He used his mysterious power to control others' bodies to punish Bellamy, who was defeated by Luffy!!
Bottom picture: He dictates everything with power and yearns for his own era to come! This is the dynasty where strong people gather!!

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

Well if anyone is interested here's what the yellow data book has to say about Doflamingo.

Do you have translations on what it says about the other warlords in that picture? Such information would also be useful to put into this thread.

[Smokin' D. Ace]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I was reading through the beginning pages in this thread, and I noticed on the first page that someone said "Smoker couldn't beat Crocodile. He said it himself". Does anyone know where this was stated? Because if that's the case, that really says something about how strong Crocodile is. Smoker is a logia user who was able to stalemate with Ace, and for him to not be able to stand up to Crocodile suggests that Crocodile truly is in the top-tier and on par with the other shichibukai. I just wanted to confirm if this is true or not, since Crocodile is greatly underestimated by a lot of fans since he was defeated already.

I fully agree with your sentiment, Sir Crocodile was indeed defeated by circumstances as well as by Luffy and were the settings different with no underestimating of Luffy from Crocodile I believe that Crocodile still would give a good fight. (I might be biased though, since Crocodile is my favorite Shichibukai this far in the story).
So I looked through the Alabasta arc, where I assumed "Smoker couldn't beat Crocodile. He said it himself." was stated.

Originally Posted by Smoker in Chapter 212, Page 19

"Who said we beat Crocodile?..."
"Because we couldn't that's why my subordinate is crying right now..."

It doesn't exactly state that Smoker couldn't match Crocodile in a man-to-man fight, Crocodile. We know that Crocodile enjoyed a great influence in Alabasta, he was viewed as a national hero, and he masterminded B.W. as well as manipulated the rebellion. Smoker most likely meant it in a different aspect that just defeating him in a fight.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Do you have translations on what it says about the other warlords in that picture? Such information would also be useful to put into this thread.

I might. I don't have any trans on Kuma, and Crocodile but I do have these.

Key Person: Marshall D. Teach

A holder of "Dark" powers eyeing at the top!!

Teach, known as Blackbeard, was a subordinate of Whitebeard, and was waiting for the opportunity to rise to the top. He was the cause of all the incidents and when he chanced upon the Dark Dark Fruit, his ambition finally showed itself!
In order to get close to the World Government, he got into Shichibukai. Through defeating pirates with high prices on their heads, he built up his reputation in the league of pirates. Teach's true objective is to encompass everything in existence into darkness!

Grasp the chance to activate his plans!!

Picture with Shanks
Shanks: "Do you understand what I said, Whitebeard?! That fellow is just waiting for his opportunity. He seeks not fame nor the position of captain. Up till now, he is merely using the name of "Whitebeard" to hide his evil motives!!!"
Hiding among Whitebeard's band of pirates, he secretly advanced his plans - Teach too showed a strategist side of his character! Once everything is in place, he shall advance to the New World!

Picture with Blackbeard
Blackbeard: "That fella has found the devil fruit that I want to possess!! According to the rules onboard, the person who finds the fruit gets to eat it!"
He killed his companion in order to fight for ownership of the Dark Dark Fruit. Once the time is ripe, he starts to roll out the plans which he has been hatching for a long time!!


A pirate spirit that can sacrifice lives for the sake of ambition/dream!!
Picture with huge speech balloons and tiny characters
Blackbeard: "The ambition of a man!!! Will never end!!!!"
He has the same attitude as Luffy when it comes to ambition! The only difference is that Teach could resort to underhand means to achieve his ambitions.

<Next page>

The power of "Darkness" that can nullify the other (devil fruit) users!

Picture left
It doesn't matter if the opponent is a "natural type"! Teach's abilities can even allow him to use darkness to engulf the power of the Flare Flare Fruit, thus his absolute dominance over Ace! This can be said to be a peerless ability!

Picture right
Blackbeard: "Natural type...!! Beast type... superhuman type!!! You all have too much faith in your abilities. In order to go against all the powered users in the worlds, I have gotten myself an undefendable offensive ability!!!"
Those powered persons are the ones who can obstruct his dreams. Having foreseen this problem, Teach acquired the Dark Dark Fruit!

An obstinate search for pirates with high bounty!!
Blackbeard: "A nobody is not worth much...!!! We should search for a head that is worth more than one hundred million!!! Zehahahaha!!! Well, let's start hunting now!!!"
To prepare for his entry as a Shichibukai, he is searching for those with a bounty price worth more than one hundred million! His current target is Strawhat Luffy!

Picture below
The person who left three scars on Shanks' face!!
Shanks: "What hurts the most now is this scar...!!!"
Shanks got the scars on his face during his battle with Blackbeard. Able to injure Shanks without the help of the Dark Dark Fruit, Blackbeard's power should be considered as incredible...?!

Dracule Mihawk The "Hawk Eye" who stands as top amongst the "swordsmen"!!

Smaller caption: That form of existence is indeed very unique!!

Character Description
A lone wolf who sails on a coffin-shaped ship on the Grand Line!! Known most widely as the strongest swordsman, his actions are very eccentric. There was once when he destroyed Kreig's pirate armada. He has interest in the Straw Hat Pirates that he met in East Blue.

Top left picture description: His appearance alone would scare the navy commanders out of their wits!! His sharp glance earned him the nickname, "Hawk Eye".

Middle picture description: He and Shanks were rivals and have fought ferociously before.

Bottom picture description: A wave of the sword that he carries on his back can slice a large ship into half!! The "world's strongest" sword technique!!

I also got some data Book info on Shanks and Whitebeard, is it Ok for me to post it here?

All trans credit goes to Kumanri!

Edit:whitebeards and shanks stuff is in the Yonkou thread.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Smokin' D. Ace

I fully agree with your sentiment, Sir Crocodile was indeed defeated by circumstances as well as by Luffy and were the settings different with no underestimating of Luffy from Crocodile I believe that Crocodile still would give a good fight. (I might be biased though, since Crocodile is my favorite Shichibukai this far in the story).
So I looked through the Alabasta arc, where I assumed "Smoker couldn't beat Crocodile. He said it himself." was stated.

It doesn't exactly state that Smoker couldn't match Crocodile in a man-to-man fight, Crocodile. We know that Crocodile enjoyed a great influence in Alabasta, he was viewed as a national hero, and he masterminded B.W. as well as manipulated the rebellion. Smoker most likely meant it in a different aspect that just defeating him in a fight.

I just searched for that statement as well and I happened to find it just now. It is indeed in Chapter 212 - Page 19. This will be kept here for future reference in case anyone tries to downgrade Crocodile. I agree with you that what Smoker said could be interpreted to mean more than just him not being strong enough to take out Crocodile. It could metaphorically mean that Crocodile was always two steps ahead of everyone in his plan (which he was) and that he was on the verge of actually prevailing, hence the reason why Smoker felt that he could not be beat. Crocodile was seriously going to win. He even had back-up plans in case any contingencies arose. He was pretty much in control of the whole situation. It still stands that that statement from Smoker proves that Crocodile is an extremely intelligent and powerful adversary that can still hold his own to this day.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Mark15

Affiliations:
Aside with the World Government, the Shichibukai are (or were) affiliated with another group(s).

Dracule Mihawk: Friendly contact with Red-Haired Shanks
Jimbei: Second Captain of the Sunny Pirates (crew split into at least three: Sunny Pirates, Arlong Pirates and Macro Fishman Pirates)
Sir Crocodile: Former president of Baroque Works (disbanded upon arrest as well as stripped of his title and reinstated as a pirate)
Donquixote Doflamingo: Former leader of the Bellamy Pirates (abandoned), former owner of the Human Auctioning House (given to Disco)
Bartholomew Kuma: Unknown, but has some some sort of relationship with Revolutionary Monkey D. Dragon
Gecko Moria: Former Captain of an unnamed crew (presumed to be massacred by Kaidou), leader of Thriller Bark and the Mysterious Four
Boa Hancock: Former slave of Tenryuubito (freed by Fisher Tiger), Captain of the Kuja Pirates, Empress of Amazon Lily, has befriended Monkey D. Luffy
Marshall D. Teach: Former subordinate of the Whitebeard Pirates (defected), Captain of the Blackbeard Pirates.

Where'd you get the bold from?