2012-04-24, 16:35 | Link #28581 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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If you're able to lie with the truth, why would claiming that you will always speak the red with the truth make any difference then? |
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2012-04-24, 17:27 | Link #28582 | |
The True Culprit
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Regardless, Beatrice is the problematic one here with her redefining of terms.
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2012-04-24, 17:46 | Link #28583 | |||||||||||
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Red truth IMO only exist to allow certain reasoning. It is suppsoe to cut down many possibilities and confirm facts. You can argue with the Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa are dead could be misleading to the point of cheating if the body of Kanon/Shanon can still be active. Of course assuming that is the solution of the EP3. The youtube user KnownNoMore did make me wonder. I do think the whole point of the red truth is hints that allow for certain forms of reasoning. The whole need of the red truth came up that Battler refused to reason with the information that was given to him. Coming up with theories without the red is not impossible. You can do with with EP1 although it is much more difficult to get the correct solution without any red to limit the solution. Quote:
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Erika like you said seems odd. She does not look that old. Although it could be the childish dress, and her generally childish attitude that gives that impression. Quote:
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Also the same with Maria. I do think that the main problem was lack of stable family which is why they had trouble dealing with other people. Ange had no family but her aunt who hated her. Maria was in the same position, expect that Rosa shown more affection. While Yasuda really did not have any family. Kumasawa was more a of friendly adult rather a family or even maternal figure. If you had to compare situations. Maria was the better as she had a mother that seem to try to be a good mother but is just not capable of it. Yasuda just did not really have any family growing up. Ange had it the worse since she knew what it was like to have a happy family and her only living family seemed to hate her. Quote:
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If anything Yasuda is just the witch-like aspect of Shannon. |
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2012-04-24, 17:52 | Link #28584 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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The real keypoint here is that Yasu was 9 when she started working at the Ushiromiya but everyone believed she was 6. And a small and clumsy 6 years old for the matter which imply she wasn't your standard kid, as she was too small and clusmy for her real age. In addition it was said in the Fukuin house she didn't really interact much with kids and was sick often so it's possible at 5 she was always in bed. Plus she evidently wasn't properly schooled which ended up withoholding from her some careful info about how time and human development works. It can seem pretty obvious for us but at first a kid can't really get that a younger kid doesn't have all his abilities and therefore CAN'T do the things he does. Also he won't immediately connect height and size to being older or younger. The same goes for counting your age. At 3 kids aren't really sure what 'age' is while at 4 and 5 they start to feel prideful when they can tell you they're already 4 and sometimes they even say 'I'm already nearly 5' but that's because they learn this interacting with adults. So, back to Yasu. During the first years of her life she likely wasn't allowed to interact with kids. We don't really know when she started to but let's assume she started when she was 6 and she was placed in a group of 3 years old. Evidently her body size wasn't remarkable enough to make obvious she was older and likely her phisical ability was the same, possible due to the long time she spent in bed so at first glance the difference between her and 3 years old isn't that startling. She likely also didn't receive any 'extra teaching' that would allow her to have a better understanding of the world. In Umineko is said she had memory issues and had to write everything down. This doesn't necessary point to a phisical deficit. As memory needs to be trained to start working and there are times in which it's better to start the training, if she started late it would be more difficult for her to learn to memorize things. It didn't help the Ushiromiya likely dumped on her a huge amount of things to memorize without really helping her to learn how to memorize them while making her anxious, all in a time in which a child would also need a good amount of time to just play and relax... a thing Yasu didn't seem to do until Kumasawa teaches her some tricks to remember things. I like to think it's possible/likely however that her mind despite being in bed, interacting with few people, usually adults and not getting a proper info dump for her age, was more developed than the one of kids 3 years younger than her. It doesn't really work at her advantage thought as kids who're more mature and more used to interact with adults as well as not very confident of their own phisical abilities often end up cutting themselves from the group even though they long for friendship... which fit with Yasu having no friends. So, to make short a long story, yes, it's possible that yasu didn't realize she was older... but this would mean that the people around her purposely neglected her cultural development. Now... if they did so because, hey she was sick in bed so it was unfair to force her to learn things well... it's understandable. If they did so because they wanted to trick her too into believing she was 3 years younger... well, they basically hampered her maturity growth and this is quite disgusting. Quote:
Though theoretically it was possible to make it as the people that worked there would have known that a child had been raised there. However it's possible that those servants were changed often as the one in the main house were so while late servants would know that the one in there was a lady the master courted and slept with, the ones that worked there earlier might think to an illegittimate daughter. Unless the two groups of people were to release their info in full details the only sure thing would be there was a female in Kuwadorian. For the first group it would be merely an illegittimate daughter raised there who later... left. For the second group Kuwadorian would be the house that held Kinzo's mistress. However, there are surprisingly very few info about Kuwadorian Beato (people doesn't even seem to know she was called Beato, they just assumed a female lived there because womanly stuffs were carried there) so the best explanation is that the servants taking care of her either were very loyal or pretty old and were dead by the time the tragedy strike so neither of them could reveal info about this Beato. |
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2012-04-24, 18:35 | Link #28585 | ||
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2012-04-25, 03:47 | Link #28587 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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2012-04-25, 06:20 | Link #28588 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: United Kingdom.
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@AuraTwilight: Yeah, Beatrice is the main problem here, I was actually aware of that specific piece of red truth as well :P.
@Golden_dust: But surely there must be some sort of regulation? In episode 4, Battler tries to proclaim his own ancestry and chokes up on his own words and proceeds to later on get locked in a logic error for stating contradicting truths. Unless the red truth is based on a system of belief, where Battler had already started doubting who his mother really was and therefore tripped on his words. Or it could be something to do with him being Tohya? Also, weren't homunculi discussed in EP3? Maybe they are humans but not necessarily people? |
2012-04-25, 07:37 | Link #28589 | |||
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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At any rate, I wouldn't put an imaginary friend past her/him. Quote:
I mean, if you think about it, it's not that complicated. If a reader has already figured out Shkannon, then it must be ridiculously simple to them (that's how it was for me, at least). When Beatrice says Six people, Shannon, Kannon, Gohda and whoever else are dead, it makes you think, 'how exactly is a personality killed? Oooh...So that was the catch all along!'. Quote:
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2012-04-25, 09:32 | Link #28591 | |
"Senior" "Member"
Join Date: Jan 2012
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All of them had wounds resembling gunshot wounds which became fatal! From which I can conclude, that if some of them were not in fact physically dead, they still must have the wound. |
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2012-04-25, 10:21 | Link #28592 |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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It's a strange red. It says there's a wound, but implies that the cause of the wound is faked in at least some of the victims.
It's an old wound from Yasu's fall as a baby. Zombie Kanon was poking at a hole in his chest, right? Last edited by Wanderer; 2012-04-25 at 23:12. |
2012-04-25, 10:42 | Link #28594 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Do you recall what the overall difference of the translation was? |
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2012-04-25, 10:46 | Link #28595 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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In other words, it looked like they had wounds. Whether they actually did have wounds was not clear.
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2012-04-25, 12:21 | Link #28599 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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I don't think it was ever fixed in the text.
Speaking of which, I wonder if they're still accepting corrections. I have a really long list of things from EP1 since I've been rereading it on the PS3.
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2012-04-25, 14:46 | Link #28600 | |
Detective, Witch, Pirate.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ruins of the Golden Land
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By the way, since there's been some debade earlier about the red truth specifing Kanon and Shannon as dead in EP3, here's something interesting I came across by chance: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/dafuckz.jpg/ Seriously...
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