Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[tcaz2]

I liked this episode, actually.

Spoiler for for the episode:

The only things that really bugged me were they left out the applause scene, which is really important for Battler and Beatrice's characters, some misused/not used tracks as has been mentioned (Though I think Nighteyes fit the torture scene), and Evatrice's voice (SCREEEEECH).

Most everything else was done with the proper emotion, and the torture scene was well done, if a bit short. All in all, it could have been worse, but it probably could have been better too.

As for the budget thing, by the way, I don't even know why people keep bringing up "But DEEN doesn't have that much budget! They had to cut it!"

I don't think anybody really cares about them. People look at results for things like this, especially from people that are supposed to be professionals, not why they do it the way they do it.

Frankly, I could care less if DEEN was made up of one person with no arms, sick and dying in bed, using his own pocket money to make the anime. They're a professional company that bought the rights to animate the series, and I expect them to do it well.

Anyway, giving this episode an 8/10.

[Leinne]

Having watched a proper Raw my thoughts

Spoiler for Thoughts:

First of all, I quite liked this episode, it was quite well adapted
+Evatrice's on the top of the mountain of gold was funny
+Beato's name scene was also funny
+Beato's moe moe voice was so different from the normal it was good
+Really good portray of Evatrice's personality
+Hai-- of Evatrice was also really goos, quite like her voice when she's not shouting (it goes a bit more mature)
+Beato's bitchslap was really good
+Good voice acting in general
+Like Evatrice's design (it's the best out of them all in the VN, Ryuukishi has something for frilly dresses)
+Liked tsun-tsun Lambda, it's always good before she gose Miragecoordinator
+U2_Nighteyes was good, but should've been louder
+Rosa's and Eva's conversation was better than in the VN, it gave such a different feeling I lked it a lot (maybe the only time I'll say it before ep4). It gave me some tnse vibes but really different from the VN, a detail I liked
+Beato's driving everyone out was also funny
+Moe-moe Eva

-NO happiness of marionette (one of my favs)
-Less QUALITY but still
-Change of the torture scene (which I liked a lot), though I liked the Happy Birthday, as a real on the spot thing
-NO NW&S strategy mention yet. Maybe it will just be cut
-Suspicion again. That song must be 5 yen for every use

So with these points, I'll gave it an 8 more or less, without reading the novel, the epsidoe was REALLY good, but I re-read it last week, so it's still fresh, maybe I'll raise it to a 9 when I have proper subs, but it was hilarious yet sick, Umineko full throtle

[chounokoe]

I liked the episode, even though I found it to be over just a bit too fast, maybe because there wasn't that much actual content compared to episodes we've grown accustomed to.

I liked Eva Beatrices introduction and I love her voice actually. It is screechy and evil, just like I imagined from this spoiled brat of a witch when reading about it in the VN.
I don't quite understand why people say her voice is similar to normal Eva which is not the case at all...she sounds like a good 10 years younger and at a minimum 2-3 levels higher...don't know if it's just me, but I think it came across really well when "Eva's" voice changed after Maria asked her who she is.

Regarding the usual bitching about DEEN, I would just love it if people could just stop screaming 'DEEEEEEEEEEEEEN' at every occasion...it really starts getting annoying, kinda like a child who doesn't get his candy, or to keep the similee, a Maria who doesn't get her rose.

People can say 'They shouldn't do an adaption if they can't afford to please me' all they want, but that's a good indication that it may be better to stop watching...I stopped watching Pandora Hearts because I thought the colour palette was lacking and the seiyuu were weak compared to what I imagined.

Maybe money isn't always an excuse, but you have to take into account what it must cost to animate Umineko even compared to Higurashi.
They don't only have to pay Ryukishi himself, but also the individual composers, and YES as far as I know it goes track by track. And you have to admit it is cheaper to take your own music-assistent, seat him in front of an e-piano and let him play something that fits, rather than paying another X-amount of money for a track which they may want to use at another occasion where it fits better.
They did that for the whole Higurashi Anime...if they would air it today I think the server would crash every week facing the amount of bashing.

OT: Why did KyoAni set the bar of VN-adaptions high again?!

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

I liked the episode, even though I found it to be over just a bit too fast, maybe because there wasn't that much actual content compared to episodes we've grown accustomed to.

I liked Eva Beatrices introduction and I love her voice actually. It is screechy and evil, just like I imagined from this spoiled brat of a witch when reading about it in the VN.
I don't quite understand why people say her voice is similar to normal Eva which is not the case at all...she sounds like a good 10 years younger and at a minimum 2-3 levels higher...don't know if it's just me, but I think it came across really well when "Eva's" voice changed after Maria asked her who she is.

Regarding the usual bitching about DEEN, I would just love it if people could just stop screaming 'DEEEEEEEEEEEEEN' at every occasion...it really starts getting annoying, kinda like a child who doesn't get his candy, or to keep the similee, a Maria who doesn't get her rose.

People can say 'They shouldn't do an adaption if they can't afford to please me' all they want, but that's a good indication that it may be better to stop watching...I stopped watching Pandora Hearts because I thought the colour palette was lacking and the seiyuu were weak compared to what I imagined.

Maybe money isn't always an excuse, but you have to take into account what it must cost to animate Umineko even compared to Higurashi.
They don't only have to pay Ryukishi himself, but also the individual composers, and YES as far as I know it goes track by track. And you have to admit it is cheaper to take your own music-assistent, seat him in front of an e-piano and let him play something that fits, rather than paying another X-amount of money for a track which they may want to use at another occasion where it fits better.
They did that for the whole Higurashi Anime...if they would air it today I think the server would crash every week facing the amount of bashing.

OT: Why did KyoAni set the bar of VN-adaptions high again?!

Then they should not have paid for the adaptation if they could not afford the individual tracks.

[MarthX]

Do us a favor and stop watching and posting here if you're gonna complain about everything.

You even gave episode 12 a 1/10. You're a hopeless fanboy.

[momobunny]

It's really too much to expect things to be perfect. So they overplay Suspicion and skipped Happiness of Marionette... the main things I'm worried about are the voice acting, animation quality, and the scenes they decide to show. If they have to sacrifice a track in order to show a well made scene, then so be it... if you want to hear every single track played at just the right moment that badly, then play the visual novel.

[tcaz2]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

People can say 'They shouldn't do an adaption if they can't afford to please me' all they want, but that's a good indication that it may be better to stop watching...I stopped watching Pandora Hearts because I thought the colour palette was lacking and the seiyuu were weak compared to what I imagined.

Maybe money isn't always an excuse, but you have to take into account what it must cost to animate Umineko even compared to Higurashi.
They don't only have to pay Ryukishi himself, but also the individual composers, and YES as far as I know it goes track by track. And you have to admit it is cheaper to take your own music-assistent, seat him in front of an e-piano and let him play something that fits, rather than paying another X-amount of money for a track which they may want to use at another occasion where it fits better.
They did that for the whole Higurashi Anime...if they would air it today I think the server would crash every week facing the amount of bashing.

Yet again, why should I care what DEEN is spending or not spending? Their money doesn't matter to me. The series does. People pushing that I should care about their money problems when I don't even know them always baffles me.

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

It's really too much to expect things to be perfect. So they overplay Suspicion and skipped Happiness of Marionette... the main things I'm worried about are the voice acting, animation quality, and the scenes they decide to show. If they have to sacrifice a track in order to show a well made scene, then so be it... if you want to hear every single track played at just the right moment that badly, then play the visual novel.

We shouldn't have to play the visual novel to get what we want from the ANIME.

EDIT again: Though I don't mind if they play the 'wrong music', as long as it fits the scene. Nighteyes in this episode and System0 in episode 8 both did well, despite not being what was played in those scenes in the VN.

[desirebluesky]

i'd love this episode if it wasn't for the coronation scene. wasn't so happy as i imagined it and it lacked emotion in general. i loved the bgm that played there but it didn't fit the whole scene. also, cutting the clapping thing, i thought this scene was important?

[bigemperor]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

If they have to sacrifice a track in order to show a well made scene, then so be it... if you want to hear every single track played at just the right moment that badly, then play the visual novel.

NOBODY WANTS THAT as Klashikari said.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The problem isn't actually why they didn't use X or Y track. The problem is: why do they use some of them, but then just misplace others or totally ignore some. That's how I see the reactions

[momobunny]

Oh well... it can't be helped anymore (unless some other studio decides to redo Umineko all together). I'm sorry for being a hypocrite too, if you feel a scene wasn't done justice then you have the right to feel that way. Just as I have said in the past. ._.

It certainly would be nice if they did insert the right tracks for the notable scenes though...

[desirebluesky]

if budget is such a problem, couldn't they just make more anime-only music and use the game one when it's really needed?
and it would be nice if they placed them in the right moments...

[Marion]

And so the first mystery girl from the OP sequence is revealed.

As tvtropes put it in far better words: Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Eva-Beatrice~

Spoiler for Review:

General
Pacing - Decent pacing. I think they could have went a little further, but stopping on the clock was a good transition I suppose
Voices - Eva-Beatrice sounded...weird sometimes. But still it was completely on key with tones. And woah what the hell happened to Koshimizu's voice (Rosa). She sounded more like a teenage girl than the awesome Rosa-Musou. Did she have a cold or something, because you hear a very noticeable difference. Although I did like Ohara (Beato), Ono (Battler) and Sugita (Ronove). Fuyuka (Lambda) for the time she was there was excellent (completely tsu~n ) and Miki (Eva) was amazing in the scene with Eva and Hideyoshi.
Music - /insert Happiness of the Marionette anger here
I'm going to chill with this, because I'm sure it's going to show up eventually. But man they just love inserting 'Suspicion' at any chance they can. Still, I did like that they included nighteyes and voiceless.
Art - Am I the only one who laughed at the cake.
Lambda's pout is godly
And her TsunTsun
I noticed Bern's eye coloring changed.
Episode 5
Episode 15
Can't say which one I like more, but I think the style used in this episode suited her a little. It was kinda lazy though to just make a gradient :P

I also like how they generally animated Eva-Beatrice. The twirl part was especially funny.

Pros
-The ceremony scene was good, despite the 'clapping hands' cut.
-Rosa and Maria's various deaths were handled well and didn't go insanely overboard. Still would it kill them to use some blood. Seriously the two fall from the sky and no blood at all. Just what.
-Maria crying to Beatrice about the broken promise was very touching...except at the end when Beatrice just dropped her like a rock
-Moetrice was very moe and tsundere. And yes they kept the part when he slaps her. (waifu abuser)
-The whining scene with Maria and Hideyoshi trying to calm her down was cute. Yes, Maria was annoying but that's the point
-Evatrice is still amazing. Just the way she was voiced and animated was just perfect~
-I loved the couple scenes between Hideyoshi and Eva. They were very touching
-What. What.

What is this.

An episode where Maria wasn't acting or looking like L5 Rena, even though DEEN had the chance to make it that way!!

Holy crap we need to give DEEN an award guys this is an accomplishment! B)

Cons
-Clapping fight between Battler and Beato was removed. A bit disappointed, since it was a wonderful example of Go-Karting with Bowser
-Just making it look like Eva found the gold by pure luck and not even talking about Rosa giving her the hint was meh :/ Rosa being there looks especially weird without that part too, but I guess they made it work.
-Eva and Rosa's voices, when they were outside in the arbor, are pretty low. You could hardly hear them.
-I was laughing at the crazy deaths I guess seeing them animated and not with a picture with gross splattered blood with over detailing text makes it more humorous?

Overall
I'm going to give this episode a 9/10. It wasn't completely perfect, but then again nothing is. Despite cutting the clap scene and 'happiness of the marionette' I still liked the episode and enjoyed watching it.

Long review yes, but wow. Except some very minor things I liked this episode.

[June 1983]

The whole music thing is just so bizarre to me. Who is in charge of the music, anyway? For some reason I actually thought it was dai (who composed happiness of marionette himself!) but maybe he's just advising and someone else is the composer? I don't understand it. I've liked a lot of the original music they've used and I haven't complained too much about things being left out/remixes (most of which I liked, and I'm also not a Dread of the Grave fan, I think it's cheesy), but happiness of marionette being left out bums me out. Maybe they are saving it for a later scene, but that's stupid. The coronation scene IS the happiness of marionette scene.

[Marion]

According to animenewsnetwork Akira Yoshikawa and Gō Wakabayashi are music producers (Akira worked on the Higurashi anime too), but the original music (not from the game) came from Masatoshi Moriwaki and Shinichi Sakurai. No mention of the composer though.

[momobunny]

I like Bern's gradient eyes now better. They seem even more lifeless to me, which fits her character.

[June 1983]

Hm, I don't know where I got that idea about dai being involved in it then. Oh well.

Here is Happiness of Marionette for any anime-only viewers who want to hear it:

[Marion]

Well dai and others are listed as thank yous in the ED credits, since the original compositions did come from them. But no, neither Umineko or Higurashi had their original music composers (well at least the original compositions for Umineko are better than Kawai's generic spooky tracks, but that's another story for another board on this forum )

[ameskitty]

No happiness of marionette, true, but I liked the replacement so whatever.

There's another, more important track later in this episode that I will sorely miss if it's cut, though, so I'll be listening for it .

Spoiler for the episode:

Wow, I can't believe they kept Lambda's "TSUN da!", that's pretty awesome .
They were quite thorough with this part actually...even kept the "Hey, Battler, give me a cute name <3" part .

Fever-Eva and crazy Eva-Beatrice were pretty awesome, and Beato apologizing to Maria (actually, Beato in GENERAL) was really cute. And since I've stopped expecting anything at all from the animation, nothing really bothered me .

9/10

[urusai]

Well, look at the bright side, at least they didn't use Suspicion for that scene.

[desirebluesky]

Originally Posted by desirebluesky

i'd love this episode if it wasn't for the coronation scene. wasn't so happy as i imagined it and it lacked emotion in general. i loved the bgm that played there but it didn't fit the whole scene. also, cutting the clapping thing, i thought this scene was important?

i forgot to mention, but it hit me when rewatching the episode:
is it just me or Evatrice didn't look like she was having fun? [when killing Rosa and Maria] i got the feeling she's just plain angry untill she started laughing.
i thought she'd have a huge, stupid smile plastered on her face all the time. XD (kinda like here)
it kinda felt like she wanted to have fun but failed to do so untill she got the cake idea. XD no clue why i feel like that.