Who is the real 5th hokage?

[Electroguy]

I voted for Gai funnily enough.

Kakashi isn't hokage material because he's too unpunctual/lazy and I doubt he would take it even if offered.

As people said if you were allowing evil nin's then Oro would be Hokage before Itachi BUT letting evil nins in the poll is stupid.

Jiraiya's too perverted.
Shikamaru is too young.
Naruto is too stupid.
Sasuke is too emo.
Asuma is too beardy.

Tsunade is a woman.

jk jk. ^_^

I think Tsunade or Gai were the only 2 serious options.

(I know the reason for asuma is weak but seriously......whos gonna let a hokage smoke in front of the kids?)

[Wolcik]

his son if he cared

[matsuno]

Originally Posted by Electroguy

(I know the reason for asuma is weak but seriously......whos gonna let a hokage smoke in front of the kids?)

Mmmm, Sandaime was known for smoking his pipe all the time (btw, smoking in Japan today is viewed like it was in the US 20 years ago. Its satisfying, and looks cool. The health benefits arent too much an issue at all).

[Medalist]

what kinda "if" thing is this...the real fifth is Tsunade...even in the show...if the third had a chance..."wait he didn't" - end of story.

[Sazelyt]

A long post so expectedly the response was delayed.

Originally Posted by Rurik

- You got my Quote wrong, I’m not saying they suggested Tsunade as an Option, rather, Jiraiya was tough as an Option because he was present.

And I don’t agree with waiting for someone suitable enough to be Hokage An almost impossible person, a Sannin level shinoby), if you are presented in a case were, for example, both Tsunade and Jiriaya are gone (Death), what are they going to do? Hope that someday someone as a strong as a Sanin appears and give him the Job, and until them, no Hokage?

Hokage is not only a Figfure that have to be absurderly strong, is a Figure which carry on the Village both in term of Front affairs and those affairs that are tied to papper work and decisions that are for the good of the village.

- yeah, but not to the extent were He could weight on who could have accepted more easier the Position or be more suitable for it. I this case even Jiraiya who knew very well Tsuande was surprised at how much Tsunade had changed and Jiriaya was even positive Tsunade was going to accpet the Job wih no quarrels.

- Sandaime not selecting a Hokage for all this Years is because the Shinoby at hand were not even close to power as Him, even When Sandaime was way pass his prime; is not fair to say 15 Years ago, because by that time, he was stronger than any of the Sanin, Sandaime case been a Hokage even by that age is special, given he is/was considered the strongest of all Hokage who had been and currently are, and at that age he was even stronger than the other Kages.

- Those suspicious were non-existent and never even hinted in the Manga, When Sandaime talked about the peace and past events, he was talking about things that happened roughly 12 Years ago and not present state, as far as Sandaime knew, Sand was One of the 5 great Villages that Competed with them for the Missions they acquire, and not a Enemy village that in any moment could raid Konoha.

And why would Sandaime talk to his High level Jounnin about it, if they don’t ask? or how do you know he did not already told this to them?

Once again, Sandaime Talks with the Kazekage made it seems there were no candidates and hence he “Joked” about remaining in the position for years to come. if he at least had someone in mind his response would had been slightly different.

- Those problems are irrelevant given the immediate threat, how long it took Jiraiya to find Tsunade? 2 or 3 weeks? If Sandaime would had been looking for Jiraiya to be a Hokage, he would had found HIm way before and give him the Job, and Not a timely look for him after his concerns of The Orochiamru treat grew.

And taking in account Jiraiya Status as a Retired Shinoby, yes, I consider that it could be that Sandaime was looking for him So he can help Him stop Orochimaru, rather than Take Jiraiya out of retirement.

And taking in account recent events, -

Spoiler:

the true Akatsuki goals

-, I wont be surprise that what Kishimot had in mind that Jiraiya was looked for so he can tangle Orochimaru, in this case a plot very simple and linear.

- Even if its has a big burden, it does not change that any of the reason why Sandaime could had been looking for Jiraiya and consequently Jiraiya avoiding Sandaime are the same type (in temrs of what he oculd had said), given in either case he could had faced Sandaime and told his response or Either “Yes I would help take care Oro, using my ways”, or “NO, I’m not suitable for been a Hokage, Ill look for Tsunade”

And even if the first case could cover the second one, both can be mutually exclusive.

- I never did say He did not had connection with Konoha or have done things out of personal interest or for that matter that he could care less what happens.

Jiraiya does his things as he likes to, and likes his freelancer status, the concept of Being ordered around could be one of the reason he chooses to work as an Outsource, rather than a Konoha Nin. He has his connection with Konoha, but he keeps them to a very minimum.

And what original personality could Jiraiya had that made him avoid Sandiame to tell him, No? He already showed us his personality, as the Elders and others said, He has not changed.

- I am not saying it is impossible for Kakashi (or someone else) to be selected a Hokage at his previous level (at only Jounin level), it is just highly unlikely. Also if that person needs to be the strongest in the village, will any Jounin, whom you cannot be sure whether he is the strongest or not, do for that? For story's sake, there will always be someone - either a known or an unknown character - who is capable of taking over the Hokage position and deserving the position at the same time.

- I think Sandaime should be aware that neither are that willingful to accept the job, otherwise, I am sure he should have tried to contact them - maybe he had already done so and received his answer. Also, regarding Tsunade, Jiraiya had some doubts related to her relationship to Orochimaru - and that is one of the reasons he wanted to reach her as soon as possible, so I think he was aware that Tsunade was not like what once she was like, even from the beginning.

- I used 15 (although it should be 13 years instead of 15) years mainly because another Hokage was already selected by that time (Yondaime) - hence his strength compared to others is not the main issue here. And, he could have selected another one if there is someone deserving the position and also willingful at the same time. But, there has been none.

- Chapter 93, page 5: The dialogue goes on like this "... Any country would want him... One of our allies has joined with Oro to betray the leaf... ...... .... Well, the alliance agreement is nothing more than a verbal promise, it hasn't prevented great wars in the past ...", so yes there were suspicions about a friendly village joining Oro, and at that time Sand is the only one around.

- Sandaime cannot leave the village for 2-3 weeks just to find Jiraiya, he can only send ANBU or some other selected people to find him. And if Jiraiya doesn't want to take that position, no ANBU can force him to go back to Konoha. So, the only choise is for Sandaime to speak to him directly without any interference. But, it is pretty obvious that Jiraiya didn't want that. By the way, asking Jiraiya help Konoha against Oro already means taking him out of retirement, no matter how you look at it. It is a Konoha mission imposed on him as a Konoha ninja.

- There is a difference. When Jiraiya was asked fro being Hokage, the situation was calm. Before, a big threat was coming closer to Konoha so if he was offered the Hokage position, he couldn't have escaped saying "give me 2-3 weeks I will bring Tsunade." And changing his ways to help Konoha based on a request and answering Sandaime's calls is one step coming closer to accepting the position of being a Hokage.

And, I don't think there is a mutually exclusive case here, as being an Hokage, he needs to fight Oro, that is a given, no escape.

- We don't know what could have happened if both could have met. Maybe it was directly related to Sandaime's attitude towards him and Oro, or just his relationship to Oro, or him losing his mask in front of Sandaime and not being able to reject his offer as Sandaime's student and previous Hokage's teacher. Since, we have no way to determine what this is, I consider the case I mentioned ( weakness-related character of Jiraiya in front of Sandaime) as having a higher probability of being realized.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

- I am not saying it is impossible for Kakashi (or someone else) to be selected a Hokage at his previous level (at only Jounin level), it is just highly unlikely. Also if that person needs to be the strongest in the village, will any Jounin, whom you cannot be sure whether he is the strongest or not, do for that? For story's sake, there will always be someone - either a known or an unknown character - who is capable of taking over the Hokage position and deserving the position at the same time.

How the village can tell who is the strongest of the village or not??? The same way they did when selecting Sandaime over Danzou I suppose, and remember is not only about the strongest.

And your last sentence in your previous post did seem to imply that someone as Kakashi or Gai cant be selected as Hokage given that if they don’t reach sanin level they cant be selected (hence its look like you were saying been at sannin level is a Requisite of Been Hokage).

I do agree that for story sake, We will have people assuredly strong appearing to be not only Hokage, but any other Kage for that matter.

I think Sandaime should be aware that neither are that willingful to accept the job, otherwise, I am sure he should have tried to contact them - maybe he had already done so and received his answer.

I really doubt that He tried, but I could agree that he at least was aware that they would had not accepted the ob given their current status.

Also, regarding Tsunade, Jiraiya had some doubts related to her relationship to Orochimaru - and that is one of the reasons he wanted to reach her as soon as possible, so I think he was aware that Tsunade was not like what once she was like, even from the beginning.

NO, Jiraiya did not, Jiraiya begun to be alerted after he was told that She met with Orochimaru, in fact he was clueless of what it was until the very moment Shizune told them, and this are totally independent on the fact that Jiraiya was surprised of Tsunade’s Thought, meaning Neither Jiraiya or Sandaime could actually tell what was Tsuandes thought.

- I used 15 (although it should be 13 years instead of 15) years mainly because another Hokage was already selected by that time (Yondaime) - hence his strength compared to others is not the main issue here. And, he could have selected another one if there is someone deserving the position and also willingful at the same time. But, there has been none.

The point is here as You stated before,I believe the main issue here is strength, Sandaime already at his age was way stronger than any other Shinoby, So selecting a Hokage even when the Hokage was going to be a lot weaker than him would had not been prudent, and I doubt the Feudal lords and Council would had agree with that type of decision.

- Chapter 93, page 5: The dialogue goes on like this "... Any country would want him... One of our allies has joined with Oro to betray the leaf... ...... .... Well, the alliance agreement is nothing more than a verbal promise, it hasn't prevented great wars in the past ...", so yes there were suspicions about a friendly village joining Oro, and at that time Sand is the only one around.

One again there is nothing that stated that, if you believe that there wren a certain suspicious of Sands activities, that’s another story, I don’t believe it that way.

This Quotes you mentioned “One of our allies has joined with Oro to betray the leaf... ...... .... Well, the alliance agreement is nothing more than a verbal promise, it hasn't prevented great wars in the past ...", none came from Sandaime, Sandaime was the only one who Was no speculating like others, he only asked to be on high alert.

Given no fingerprinting was done you cant say with a shadow of doubt there was a very specific Suspicion to Sand when there is a Handfull of Villages out there. And once again, Saying if Sandaime is planning to choose or not a Hokage soon, is not a matter of National security as far as I can gather, not to mention, Sandaime never admitted he was lying when he and Oro talked about a potential Hokage successor.

- Sandaime cannot leave the village for 2-3 weeks just to find Jiraiya, he can only send ANBU or some other selected people to find him. And if Jiraiya doesn't want to take that position, no ANBU can force him to go back to Konoha. So, the only choise is for Sandaime to speak to him directly without any interference. But, it is pretty obvious that Jiraiya didn't want that.

And You are not using your imagination here Saze, ANBU could only be used to locate Jiraiya, Sandaime could just appear in front of Him thanks to a lot of Jutsu such as the Hirashin.

And, Iget my point, Im not saying its not a possibility that that Jiraiya could had been avoiding Sandaime sop he is not asked to be the Hokage. In other words, He could had been looking for Jiraiya as to be Hokage, but I don’t see it like that, as a pointed out in my first post the reasons why.

Also Ebisu and his talk to Jiraia also made it look as if Sandaime plans were more related to look for Help against Oro, And jiriaya response made it look as if he was avoiding Sandaime because of that reason-It would had been very Not-JIriaya to avoid Sandaime, to avoid taken the responsability of the village, instead Avoiding Sandaime to Help the village against Oro, but still help Against Oro in his way, seems like something Jiraiya would do.

By the way, asking Jiraiya help Konoha against Oro already means taking him out of retirement, no matter how you look at it. It is a Konoha mission imposed on him as a Konoha ninja.

Not neccesarelly, Asking Jiraiya to help against Oro could force JIriaya out of retirement i can give you that, but it could be a temporal service just to take care of the Bussinees wiht Oro, for instance

Spoiler:

I dont think that Chiyo was planing to stay active after settleling the score with Sasori

Or even Not getting out of retirement, Just talk about Oro and Help Konoha wihtout actually becoming a Konoha Shinoby once again, Jiriaya is Helping a lot Konoha, and he is still not an active Konoha Shinoby.

- There is a difference. When Jiraiya was asked fro being Hokage, the situation was calm. Before, a big threat was coming closer to Konoha so if he was offered the Hokage position, he couldn't have escaped saying "give me 2-3 weeks I will bring Tsunade." And changing his ways to help Konoha based on a request and answering Sandaime's calls is one step coming closer to accepting the position of being a Hokage.

And, I don't think there is a mutually exclusive case here, as being an Hokage, he needs to fight Oro, that is a given, no escape.

You are not getting the point, in a moment of apparent turmoil, Jiraiya could still have not accepted a Hokage Job and willingly Help Sandaime, reason, why I say Been Hokage and the need to Fight Oro could be mutually exclusive. Getting read of Oro, is a responsibility of the Village, and not specifically the Hokage.

- We don't know what could have happened if both could have met. Maybe it was directly related to Sandaime's attitude towards him and Oro, or just his relationship to Oro, or him losing his mask in front of Sandaime and not being able to reject his offer as Sandaime's student and previous Hokage's teacher. Since, we have no way to determine what this is, I consider the case I mentioned ( weakness-related character of Jiraiya in front of Sandaime) as having a higher probability of being realized.

Well, as We don’t know, I don’t consider it at all as to be A highly probale the things you mentioned, probrable, but hot Higly. Jiriaya not appering in front of Sandaime because he could loose mask, could be tied to any type of request Sandaime could make to Jiriaya, not only Bee the Hokage request.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by Electroguy

I voted for Gai funnily enough.

Kakashi isn't hokage material because he's too unpunctual/lazy and I doubt he would take it even if offered.

As people said if you were allowing evil nin's then Oro would be Hokage before Itachi BUT letting evil nins in the poll is stupid.

Jiraiya's too perverted.
Shikamaru is too young.
Naruto is too stupid.
Sasuke is too emo.
Asuma is too beardy.

Tsunade is a woman.

jk jk. ^_^

I think Tsunade or Gai were the only 2 serious options.

(I know the reason for asuma is weak but seriously......whos gonna let a hokage smoke in front of the kids?)

Uhm... didnt the 3rd Hokage do this all the time? Especially when he was talking to Iruka and how much he cared about the village

Originally Posted by Suna no tate

Spoiler:

I still really disagree. The sand had a fairly weak kazekage before gaara and still was respected as a village. Gaara was defeated by Deidara of all people, yet we still respect the sand. I understand thats its beneficial to have a strong leader, but guess what, Orochimaru's invasion failed because the konoha ninjas returned, and not because he had his arms sealed. Guess what? Akatsuki won't attack konoha because they don't have the military might. There's a reason why they said they didn't want to start a war (yet). As long as Konoha continues to have such large numbers of exceptional ninja, it doesn't really matter who their hokage is. There's the example of the 4th giving his life to save the Ninja village, but what an aberrant situation. Thats true, but I bet most of the kages in history would have failed in that situation. 3 of the konoha hokages might have had a chance: the first for his ability to suppress the kyubi chakra (but probably not all of it), the 3rd since he learned the death pact jutsu, and the 4th since he developed the death pact jutsu. Outside of those 3 guys is there anyone in the naruto universe who could stand up to the kyubi? I state this to point out that yes the hokage fights to protect the village, but 1) everyone does, and 2) the hokage isn't necessarily going to be successful anyway. He may die and the battle is still won. So how necessary is it to have a hokage thats powerful right now?


On the thing with ANBU squads vs orochimaru. So far in konoha we've seen maybe 10 jounin in action, and only 1 ANBU (yamato) and 2 ex ANBU jounin (kakashi and itachi). The jounin we've seen are pretty good, the ANBU we've seen is very very good, and the 2 ex ANBU we've seen are top notch. I say this to point out that more than likely ANBU squads are probably better than we give them credit for and more than likely there are ninja in Konoha better than kakashi (this Danzo guy is a mystery to this day but he must have been very powerful to contend with the 3rd for the hokage spot. Whoever he tutored must probably be not too shabby. I throw that out as a possibility. By the way, does anyone who was the same same 3 man team as teh 4th hokage when he was a kid?) Anyway if Oro is fearful of Itachi, and Itachi seriously respects Gai and Kakashi (he has given statements to this point), I don't think I'm overstretching myself in saying the right groups of konoha ninja (4 anbu squads is 12 people) can handle Oro or any one individual ninja who threatens the village. If a drunk and poisoned jiraiya can tangle with a crippled orochimaru, then I think Konoha would be ok with the ninja they have. There are other double suicide techniqes out there beside the death pact jutsu (anko tried one early in the series) and there are techniques out there still to be shown. But we do know konoha has the greatest military might of all the villages right now. That might lessens their need to have a powerful hokage.

Dont you think that this story should belong in the manga spoilers for the 2nd time? Since this thread title doesnt have [MANGA] infront of it...manga material should be put behind spoilers

[NibelungTaisa]

a bit off topic: jiraiya should have chosen to become the 5th hokage then maybe we wouldn't have these fillers; but the plot will change and a bunch of "what ifs" will appear.

well i would vote for shika in maybe 10 more years, but as of now, really either jiraiya or tsunade...

[Snowdump]

.::Sigh::.
There are too many "IF's".
True, if we used the "What if he wasnt evil" motion, Itachi would be hokage.
But that also goes for Oro.
Idiots who think Sasuke would take on the title as hokage should shoot themselves.
&& Even IF Oro and Itachi werent evil, there would be no story, no plot. no NARUTO!!!

Itachi isnt suposed to be the "True" 5th hokage.
The only reason Oro exists in this manga, is because he wants Sasuke.
The only reason Sasuke is stupid enough to join forces with Oro is because he wants power.
The only reason he wants power is because of Itachi!!!

Sure, Tsunade is a drunk and is in debt, but she still took on the job. She could have rufused, but she didnt. She is worthy of "hokage" title nonetheless.
&& She is willing to die for konoha.


Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, Jiraiya, && of course Sasuke are out of the picture.
One because they all have important rolls in this story.
&& Two because without them some characters in Naruto would be gone.
They would be pointless.

Naruto at one point or another WILL become hokage.
But not the "True" 5th hokage, since he isnt ellgible at the stage where he is at.

There is also the possibility that Shika will become hokage, but again not the "true" 5th. && For the same reason as Naruto.
Although he has an IQ of 200 or so, his ability of chakra isnt all that great.
&& His jutsu has a weakness that anybody could figure out at one point or another.

That only leaves Tsunade as the "true" 5th.
Just like she is now. >:|
Even though she is old, a drunk, and in debt, it doesnt change the fact that she is strong, and will do a anything in her power to protect and serve konoha.

No amount of "IF's" in the world will change that.
In my opinion, this poll was pointless and didnt change anything.
That "somewhere" you heard that Itachi should be the true 5th is probably full of mindless retards that dont take the story into consideration when assuming things like this.
u.u
I curse them all!!! .::Evil laugh::.

[deaconfry]

Originally Posted by miss rave

Well Sasuke would be the best choice. But one way or another Tsunade would of ended up being the 5th .

tsunade is the fifth

[minuteman]

Jiraiya the current 5 th is a medical ninja to specific to represent the whole village.

[deaconfry]

but shikimaru becomes chuunin 2 years before every other genin electroguy

[ri0]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Spoiler:

When Asuma is standing at the 3rd's grave in chp 314, he states that he was glad to be born into the Sarutobi clan.

I relooked it and my trans said family... Well, now I know^^

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Yeah I'd rather see Shikamaru behind that desk...then Naruto. Unless the advisors die...Shikamaru becomes a new advisor and decides with the feudal lords to make Naruto an Active Combat Hokage.

A Hokage on the Battlefield....somehow i really wonder if Naruto knows what it means to be an hokage. Sitting behind a desk is probably a main reason why Tsunade & Jiraiya refused at first.