[Manga] Chapter 466 Discussion

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The reason why i like the idea of mizukage having two bloodlines is simple: it's stupid that Konoha gets all the most special people in the naruto world (senju, sharingan, byakugan, shino with bugs, choji with body-manipulation, Shikamaru, etc...)

Well I woudln't call it "stupid". Just because the author decided to focus on one village and show its special nin and history doesn't mean none of the other villages have no "special" people. We just haven't been given any information on the other villages, thats all. The entire ninja world was said to have come from the two brothers so who knows what genetic anomolies over time have created in the other villages. Not to mention there can be bloodlines unknown to the general population.

And, even if they did have all the special guys, I think it would be plausible since over time, "the cream always rises to the top". Over time, the strongest clans would eventually emerge and when elite ninja want to join a clan, they'd try out for the top clans if they were serious. Its not "stupid", it can actually make sense either way you look at it. Its pretty common actually; as in school similar people tend to clump together: foriegn kids, nerds, athletes, etc.

[Goshin]

Originally Posted by Scorpian

it can actually make sense either way you look at it. Its pretty common actually; as in school similar people tend to clump together: foriegn kids, nerds, athletes, etc.

imo if you look at each village as a school. then konoha seems to have more star athletes. which is what i think most people did not find fair.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

The Kages seem to all have blatantly powerful techniques which makes me wonder why Sarutobi was on top because what we have seen from these 4 are enough to make me think that Konoha sucks the hardest of all the villages kages.

I think you're exaggerating things a bit there.... Powerful techniques aren't everything, besides, we haven't seen Sarutobi in his prime.

Originally Posted by wtfftw

Sasuke vs 4 kages is Drained of chakra. Serioulsy though sasuke needs to calm down and focus on 1 opponent at a time. I mean the dude didnt have any strategy against these guys like he did with other opponents. I bet the only thing in his mind was danzou cuz obvioulsy he wasnt thinking straigth.

I think the idea was that Madara and Zetsu lured him there and trapped him into fighting all four of them. I dont think fighting all kages at once was in Sasuke's original plan.

Originally Posted by james0246

^Kishimoto siad once that the child of Hinata and Sasuke would have both the Byakugan and the Sharingan. Since that is not how genetics actually works, I am sure it was meant only as a joke.

It does not make much sense to have 2 bloodlines. 1 bloodline and then an elemental combination on top of that would have made much more sense.

um actually, its called co-dominance.

[Zek]

I don't think Konoha actually does have that many more powerful ninjas, we just never see any of the hotshots of the other villages.

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by Haak

I actually knew it wasn't true. I was responding to this you see.

What i wanted to do was make ajnas himself/herself recall the bit where the Raikage smashed through his Amaterasu/ Susanoo shield and then ajnas would be forced to admit that Sasuke did actually get hit.

Oh I see. What happened was, I thought if you wanted to remind him/her that Raikage broke through the partial Susanoo, you'd say something like: "The Raikage broke through Susanoo", instead of saying "none of Sasuke's attacks hit the kages." My mistake.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

um actually, its called co-dominance.

Co-Dominance is the combination of 2 alleles to create a new phenotype. That would mean 2 bloodlines come together to make a distinct new bloodline (this is completely acceptable and understandable). Kishimoto, though, said that one eye would be a Sharingan, and the other a Byakuagn. This is gentically impossible.

Though only way that the Mizukage could have 2 bloodlines is if one is dominant, and the other is a mutation; one is dominant and the other is recessive; a semi-dominance (i.e. non properly functioning allele, etc), and a few other cases. But, even then, this seems like a bit of a long shot, so I am going to postulate that, much the same as someone gave Ao the Byakugan, someone could have given the Mizukage her other bloodline.

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by Goshin

imo if you look at each village as a school. then konoha seems to have more star athletes. which is what i think most people did not find fair.

You're right, but being "fair" was never an issue (at least to me; not sure about erosennin). I was just saying I thought it was plausible(and not "stupid") for Konoha to have most of the powerful bloodlines in their village; which would explain their prestige, success, etc. throughout the years.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Zek

I don't think Konoha actually does have that many more powerful ninjas, we just never see any of the hotshots of the other villages.

That's the same thing to us readers. What we don't see does not exist
Now Kishimoto had to show the top of all villages, and it's nice to see how they both have great ninja without any bloodline and also great ninja with two bloodlines combined. According the the story Konoha never dominated the ninja world, they had difficult wars and even had to send children to fight (that's why Obito had to die, he was fighting against adults while being just a child). And so Kishimoto must show that other villages also have very special ninjas. And i think Kishimoto did a good job here, the 3 new kages really are special and strong.

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by pizzajincuuriki

Raikage defense just got beat by a karate chop made of the same shiz. Lightning. NOT PERFECT.

Actually its Sasuke's "perfect defense" (or so you say) that was defeated by a karate chop lol. Raikage was peirced by the chidori sword.

Originally Posted by pizzajincuuriki

Naruto? Since when does Naruto have a perfect defense? If you are talking about the kyubi chakra that surronds him, that got beat by a twelve year old Sasuke without MS. SO FAR FROM PERFECT ITS RIDCULOUS.

Naruto was twelve himself, and was using a low level shroud. When he fought against orochimaru with a high level shroud, even Oro's special sword couldn't harm him. Nothing seemed to work against it, it looked unstoppable. The only thing that was able to harm him was the shroud itself, but doesn't this sound familiar...

Originally Posted by pizzajincuuriki

Neji's perfect defense got defeated by spider webs and arrows. NOT PERFECT.

I agree his defense isn't perfect, but It wasn't defeated by spider webs and such; Neji's problem was that he actually began to run out of chakra and could no longer defend against his overwhelming attacks.

Originally Posted by pizzajincuuriki

Sasuke's beats Extreme blows from super saiyan ninjas, lava, And gaara's sand magic. When it cracks, he puts more chakra into it. And yeah it slowly hurts you. But you cant be hurt outside of that So far its pretty effin perfect. . And so far, he has spammed it.

Im pretty sure its not perfect considering it harms you while you have it active.... Pretty ironic for a defense manuever no? And, it was broken through by the Raikage(where Sasuke got knocked down), and melted by the Mizukage(where Sasuke was burned)... Im pretty sure if that rock the tchukage through at Sasuke had actually landed, those bones wouldn't be in perfect condition either. The only defense I might call "perfect", is Itachi's Susanoo, with the artifacts... Or maybe Pein's perfect teamwork.

Also, lol I think people are spamming the word "spam". I think you need to realize most of these characters have a relatively limited array of jutsu and techniques, thus we'll see the same technique under similar circumstances, since that is their specialy or bloodline... Not everyone has a wide array of jutsu like say Kakashi, Jiraiya, or Orochimaru. For example, Gaara always uses his sand shield (hell, he wears a layer of sand on his skin) since, he is an earth type and that is his specialty, Temari always uses wind, Kankuro always uses puppets, etc. You could say Naruto "spammed" sage mode on Pein since he used it every chance he had, but that wouldn't really be the right thing to say... Its his specialty, and its how he fights, so he uses it... Simple as that.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by james0246

Co-Dominance is the combination of 2 alleles to create a new phenotype.

Incomplete Dominance does that as well. Co-Dominance is when both phenotypes show up together; incomplete is when they blend. Either way a new phenotype is born.

Originally Posted by james0246

That would mean 2 bloodlines come together to make a distinct new bloodline (this is completely acceptable and understandable). Kishimoto, though, said that one eye would be a Sharingan, and the other a Byakuagn. This is gentically impossible.

If Heterocromia is possible, then having two different bloodline eyes is possible. Hell, even if it wasn't Kishimoto could just make it possible.

[james0246]

^Isn't Heterochromia more a result of a failure during fertilization (congenital) or a mutation (mosaic), rather than combining 2 distinct blood lines?

Besides Heterochromia is nothing like having 2 different but distinct types of eyes that do 2 entirely different things. The set-up for the Byakugan and the Sharingan are too different to be used in one body. Specifically, I do not see how the brain's set-up would allow proper connections for the sensory imput of both the Sharingan and the Byakugan.

[AuroraFlash]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Isn't Heterochromia more a result of a failure during fertilization (congenital) or a mutation (mosaic), rather than combining 2 distinct blood lines?

Besides Heterochromia is nothing like having 2 different but distinct types of eyes that do 2 entirely different things. The set-up for the Byakugan and the Sharingan are too different to be used in one body. Specifically, I do not see how the brain's set-up would allow proper connections for the sensory imput of both the Sharingan and the Byakugan.

Oh, that's easy... a double-headed body, conjoined twins. One freak of nature, but strong and unmatched. This creature, tainted by its abnormalism, rejected and hated by the society, but gifted with that unnatural power, seeking for its place in the world, a world of hate and prejudices, but a world reigned by the strong. Will he find the answers he desperately urges for?

[Sabaku Kyu]

Gotta love that Zetsu... that's all I can say about this chapter. Looking forward to whatever Madara's got up his sleeve.

Originally Posted by Scorpian

Also, lol I think people are spamming the word "spam". I think you need to realize most of these characters have a relatively limited array of jutsu and techniques, thus we'll see the same technique under similar circumstances, since that is their specialy or bloodline... Not everyone has a wide array of jutsu like say Kakashi, Jiraiya, or Orochimaru. For example, Gaara always uses his sand shield (hell, he wears a layer of sand on his skin) since, he is an earth type and that is his specialty, Temari always uses wind, Kankuro always uses puppets, etc.

There's a difference though, Gaara, Temari and Kankuro have been using those techniques from day one and never changed. But we know Sasuke is capable of using a wide array of techniques: Lee's taijutsu, chidori(s), katon, genjutsu, kuchiyose etc, etc... he just gained MS a short time ago, but now relies heavily on those techniques. It's understandable given the enemies he's facing but this isn't the same thing as the other characters using their usual m.o.

Originally Posted by james0246

^Isn't Heterochromia more a result of a failure during fertilization (congenital) or a mutation (mosaic), rather than combining 2 distinct blood lines?

Besides Heterochromia is nothing like having 2 different but distinct types of eyes that do 2 entirely different things. The set-up for the Byakugan and the Sharingan are too different to be used in one body. Specifically, I do not see how the brain's set-up would allow proper connections for the sensory imput of both the Sharingan and the Byakugan.

Realistically, a body couldn't handle sensory input from normal Byakugan. A person who can see 360 degrees in X-ray vision couldn't function, but it works fine in a fictional universe. If there was a Byakugan/Sharingan user in the story Kishi would just make it so that the user had the advantages of both the Sharingan and Byakugan--it'd be that simple. He wouldn't need to explain the glaring problem of how this person able to handle the sensory overload, he already ignored that with the case of Byakugan

As for the Mizukage having 2 bloodlines, I don't really see with a logical problem with that either, because biological systems in Naruto are different. They have chakra systems, which don't have any parallel in real life. We don't really know how chakra properties are inherited, besides the fact that kekkai genkai can be passed generation to generation or spliced into certain peoples.

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

This creature, tainted by its abnormalism, rejected and hated by the society, but gifted with that unnatural power, seeking for its place in the world, a world of hate and prejudices, but a world reigned by the strong. Will he find the answers he desperately urges for?

Where's this quote from? Can't remember...

[Nagatsu]

Originally Posted by james0246

Co-Dominance is the combination of 2 alleles to create a new phenotype. That would mean 2 bloodlines come together to make a distinct new bloodline (this is completely acceptable and understandable). Kishimoto, though, said that one eye would be a Sharingan, and the other a Byakuagn. This is gentically impossible.

Though only way that the Mizukage could have 2 bloodlines is if one is dominant, and the other is a mutation; one is dominant and the other is recessive; a semi-dominance (i.e. non properly functioning allele, etc), and a few other cases. But, even then, this seems like a bit of a long shot, so I am going to postulate that, much the same as someone gave Ao the Byakugan, someone could have given the Mizukage her other bloodline.

Why over think things to this degree. It is a comic book, whatever the author wants to happen will happen. If he wants Madara to reveal that he has 6 arms next chapter he can. It doesn't mean there is going to be a real world scientific explanation of it.

[noven]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Isn't Heterochromia more a result of a failure during fertilization (congenital) or a mutation (mosaic), rather than combining 2 distinct blood lines?

Besides Heterochromia is nothing like having 2 different but distinct types of eyes that do 2 entirely different things. The set-up for the Byakugan and the Sharingan are too different to be used in one body. Specifically, I do not see how the brain's set-up would allow proper connections for the sensory imput of both the Sharingan and the Byakugan.

If we can assume the brain allows Sharingan and Byakugan to work already, it isn't a stretch to say they would work if both present in and individual. Hetereochromia is kind of a poor example because it is caused by defects in the genetic code triggering pigmentation difference. Eye color is based on the amount of melanin in the iris, while i think it's safe to assume sharingan and byakugan eyes are a little more complex than that.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Woot first post in 3 years. (I stopped watching all Naruto/TV etc while in Med school. Just graduated )

(Had a juicy Marathon session watching 3 years worth of Naruto and Manga lol. I'll be posting a nice long rant about what I failed expectations and dissapointments along with what I thought was nicely surprising.)

Just thought I'd drop by to say whats hi!

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

Incomplete Dominance does that as well. Co-Dominance is when both phenotypes show up together; incomplete is when they blend. Either way a new phenotype is born.



If Heterocromia is possible, then having two different bloodline eyes is possible. Hell, even if it wasn't Kishimoto could just make it possible.

Why are you guys so fiercely debating the genetic validity of whether Byakugan and Sharingan can appear in separate eyes. It makes no sense to critisize it on the basis of science lol. We are talking about a world where people summon giant talking ninja frogs from thin air. I dont think science rules apply here

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by noven

If we can assume the brain allows Sharingan and Byakugan to work already, it isn't a stretch to say they would work if both present in and individual. Hetereochromia is kind of a poor example because it is caused by defects in the genetic code triggering pigmentation difference. Eye color is based on the amount of melanin in the iris, while i think it's safe to assume sharingan and byakugan eyes are a little more complex than that.

I think the word "anomaly" is better than "defects", since the genetic mutation can be beneficial. It depends. Anyway I believe if its possible for someone to have genetic code creating two different eyes, well, you get the idea. These kekke genkai are more complex, but in the end they are still just instructions on how the eye will look and behave. Its possible for each eye to have different instructions.

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

Why are you guys so fiercely debating the genetic validity of whether Byakugan and Sharingan can appear in separate eyes. It makes no sense to critisize it on the basis of science lol. We are talking about a world where people summon giant talking ninja frogs from thin air. I dont think science rules apply here

I don't think its that serioius.... Its just a fun discussion for kicks...

[Methuselah]

And thus the new breed! ---> (*__@)

I wonder what's the weakness of the both. Byakugan itself seems invincible with the 180 degree sight (except the spine areas - a thin blind spot) but with exception with the veins on the side of the eyes. I wonder if putting a vertical slice on those blood veins will disturb the eye. (like blood will squirt out and eye is useless..) XD

[Alchemist007]

It could just be stress related vein popping and have no effect at all.

[Kafriel]

Instead of getting both, they'd just make a new eye <insert something that goes with -gan here> that would have the properties of both. Having one sharingan and one byakugan is like wearing lenses of different degrees (like 2 in the left eye and 8 in the right), which would royally screw up your vision