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Cosmic Eagle · 2022-12-12, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

I think it's more to prevent the movie being all over the internet within a day. I own Your Name, Garden of Words and Beyond the Clouds, so I'll get Suzume if it ends up good, but Weathering With You leaves me with some concern.

It's around Weathering's level for me. Which is still better than a lot of stuff, granted

Magin · 2022-12-21, 09:03

I finally took the time to watch this the other day, and overall, I really enjoyed it. Of course, it was also the first film by Makoto Shinkai that I've actually seen, so I don't exactly have any better or worse movies to compare it to. On that note, while I haven't seen Tenki no Ko, I know how it goes... I say this because Suzume no Tojimari felt like Tenki no Ko with heavy influences of Howl's Moving Castle.

Spoiler for Suzume no Tojimari:

To get more detailed... Once the plot really kicked in, I couldn't help but think "And this is why you're supposed to close doors and windows in Japan!" Of course, without Suzume opening that first door, we probably wouldn't have much a a movie... though I suppose all the other doors were going to open regardless.

Also, picking up that stone that would become Daijin... felt like a real bone-headed move. Being a country bumpkin (what inakamono apparently translates to) only gives you so much of an excuse. And I will stand by saying that Daijin is Kyuubei's country bumpkin cousin.

On Daijin... yeah, that thing was ANNOYING. Certainly antagonistic for most of the movie, though it orinally made it seem like he(?) was also evil. But much like Kyuubei, he really wasn't evil.. However, an Annoying Twat that Suzume should've dropkicked into the doors at some point? Absolutely. I did feel a little satisfaction watching Daijin literally deflate when Suzume said, "I hate you! It's your fault!"

Then we have Souta... he felt VERY inspired by Howl. Unfortunately, because my own Japanese ability isn't strong enough yet, the details of the Things that came from the doors was lost on me (I think they got called earthworms?), other than they create earthquakes in this movie. Plus, whatever his grandfather was talking about when Suzume visited the old man... didn't understand that part either. Also, Souta (or technically his spirit.soul, I guess) freezing into ice? Was that a result of Daijin's curse, or his hunt for the doors? Anyways, this made the roles from Tenki no Ko get reversed: Souta was the Hina of this movie, and getting trapped in the world beyond the door.

Now for my biggest criticism, and probably why I shouldn't watch anything beyond Your name, Tenki no Ko, and this: I felt that the traveling with Serizawa to find Souta and permanently seal the doors was the weakest part of the movie. In contrast, Suzume traveling on her own before the meeting up with the mama was absolutely fun (okay, so maybe watching the kids and the various happenings at the snack bar, including the responsibilities Suzume had to take on) and my personal favorite part, amusingly enough.

So then the traveling... I opened some spoilers that said apparently the two cats are actually guardian spirits of some sort... so you're tlling me that BOTH Suzume and her aunt have these cat-like creatures? The black one showing up was a HUGE surprise, and then watching as it treated Daijin like its kitten... was that supposed to symbolize the relationship between Suzume and her aunt, even though Suzume was calling calling her aunt by her name? At least, I assume that was still her aunt.

Anyways, we had to travel all the way from Kyushu to Sendai in Northeastern Japan... yeah, the symbolism for 3/11 here was STRONG. Plus all the product placement along the way... and so they manage to find the house where Suzume and her mother lived before 3/11. With all the black crayon covering the pages... yeah, i guess a little Suzume wouldn't want to remember that day, especially with it apparently killing her mother (Geez, i thought Disney was bad for killing mothers... dammit Japan, this is one thing you DIDN'T have to learn from Disney.) And on this note: early on we see a little Suzume in the strange world, meeting someone just as she wakes up from a dream. I had a STRONG suspicion that was going to be her future self... and yes, it was. So present-day Suzume is responsible for making sure that her past self lived... I wih I understood the explanation of the World beyond the Doors.

And to go back a step... well, going through the door leads to finding Souta (sill as a chair, interestingly enough), and I guess by trying to free him, Suzume was sarting to become encase in ice or something as well? I REALLY wish i knew what was happening there... meanwhile, our two cat creatures are proving their worth- the blck one transformed into some sort of beast capable of fighting the worm things, and Daijin... well, Daijin helped to free Souta, all to stay on Suzume's good side. Plus ultimate reverting back to that stone from the beginning to seal the things in the World Beyond.

And so we finish with Souta going back to Tokyo... i guess some sort of promise was made? We get a similar scene to the opening here: Suzume is riding her bike down a hill, and she slows down... as she encounters Souta again. Cut to credits, plus a few post-credit scenes showing some of the other characters in the movie.

Overall, it was really good, despite not understand the fine details of the plot. The other thing that was interesting to me is that according to some reviews (more specifically, the ANN one), this movie seemed to be about Shinkai's lament of the countryside depopulation. Sure, there's beautiful sceneery out there... but I think he didn't want to address just how hard it is to live in the countryside now. Mostly because, I would argue countryside living requires an entirely different set of skills than most people today have, courtesy of modern conveniences. If he had touched on that part, I might've been able to sympathize more.

Cosmic Eagle · 2022-12-24, 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magin

I finally took the time to watch this the other day, and overall, I really enjoyed it. Of course, it was also the first film by Makoto Shinkai that I've actually seen, so I don't exactly have any better or worse movies to compare it to. On that note, while I haven't seen Tenki no Ko, I know how it goes... I say this because Suzume no Tojimari felt like Tenki no Ko with heavy influences of Howl's Moving Castle.

Spoiler for Suzume no Tojimari:

To get more detailed... Once the plot really kicked in, I couldn't help but think "And this is why you're supposed to close doors and windows in Japan!" Of course, without Suzume opening that first door, we probably wouldn't have much a a movie... though I suppose all the other doors were going to open regardless.

Also, picking up that stone that would become Daijin... felt like a real bone-headed move. Being a country bumpkin (what inakamono apparently translates to) only gives you so much of an excuse. And I will stand by saying that Daijin is Kyuubei's country bumpkin cousin.

On Daijin... yeah, that thing was ANNOYING. Certainly antagonistic for most of the movie, though it orinally made it seem like he(?) was also evil. But much like Kyuubei, he really wasn't evil.. However, an Annoying Twat that Suzume should've dropkicked into the doors at some point? Absolutely. I did feel a little satisfaction watching Daijin literally deflate when Suzume said, "I hate you! It's your fault!"

Then we have Souta... he felt VERY inspired by Howl. Unfortunately, because my own Japanese ability isn't strong enough yet, the details of the Things that came from the doors was lost on me (I think they got called earthworms?), other than they create earthquakes in this movie. Plus, whatever his grandfather was talking about when Suzume visited the old man... didn't understand that part either. Also, Souta (or technically his spirit.soul, I guess) freezing into ice? Was that a result of Daijin's curse, or his hunt for the doors? Anyways, this made the roles from Tenki no Ko get reversed: Souta was the Hina of this movie, and getting trapped in the world beyond the door.

Now for my biggest criticism, and probably why I shouldn't watch anything beyond Your name, Tenki no Ko, and this: I felt that the traveling with Serizawa to find Souta and permanently seal the doors was the weakest part of the movie. In contrast, Suzume traveling on her own before the meeting up with the mama was absolutely fun (okay, so maybe watching the kids and the various happenings at the snack bar, including the responsibilities Suzume had to take on) and my personal favorite part, amusingly enough.

So then the traveling... I opened some spoilers that said apparently the two cats are actually guardian spirits of some sort... so you're tlling me that BOTH Suzume and her aunt have these cat-like creatures? The black one showing up was a HUGE surprise, and then watching as it treated Daijin like its kitten... was that supposed to symbolize the relationship between Suzume and her aunt, even though Suzume was calling calling her aunt by her name? At least, I assume that was still her aunt.

Anyways, we had to travel all the way from Kyushu to Sendai in Northeastern Japan... yeah, the symbolism for 3/11 here was STRONG. Plus all the product placement along the way... and so they manage to find the house where Suzume and her mother lived before 3/11. With all the black crayon covering the pages... yeah, i guess a little Suzume wouldn't want to remember that day, especially with it apparently killing her mother (Geez, i thought Disney was bad for killing mothers... dammit Japan, this is one thing you DIDN'T have to learn from Disney.) And on this note: early on we see a little Suzume in the strange world, meeting someone just as she wakes up from a dream. I had a STRONG suspicion that was going to be her future self... and yes, it was. So present-day Suzume is responsible for making sure that her past self lived... I wih I understood the explanation of the World beyond the Doors.

And to go back a step... well, going through the door leads to finding Souta (sill as a chair, interestingly enough), and I guess by trying to free him, Suzume was sarting to become encase in ice or something as well? I REALLY wish i knew what was happening there... meanwhile, our two cat creatures are proving their worth- the blck one transformed into some sort of beast capable of fighting the worm things, and Daijin... well, Daijin helped to free Souta, all to stay on Suzume's good side. Plus ultimate reverting back to that stone from the beginning to seal the things in the World Beyond.

And so we finish with Souta going back to Tokyo... i guess some sort of promise was made? We get a similar scene to the opening here: Suzume is riding her bike down a hill, and she slows down... as she encounters Souta again. Cut to credits, plus a few post-credit scenes showing some of the other characters in the movie.

Overall, it was really good, despite not understand the fine details of the plot. The other thing that was interesting to me is that according to some reviews (more specifically, the ANN one), this movie seemed to be about Shinkai's lament of the countryside depopulation. Sure, there's beautiful sceneery out there... but I think he didn't want to address just how hard it is to live in the countryside now. Mostly because, I would argue countryside living requires an entirely different set of skills than most people today have, courtesy of modern conveniences. If he had touched on that part, I might've been able to sympathize more.

Spoiler:

Last Sinner · 2023-02-14, 18:34

Shinkai turned 50. Thought he was closer to 40. Oh well. 2 months to Suzume being in cinemas.

Magin · 2023-02-15, 06:52

He's 50? Damn, I also thought he was closer to 40.

I guess that only doing movies (and maybe any side projects) has hopefully helped him keep healthy.

Last Sinner · 2023-02-15, 09:12

This article was what notified me of that.

TinyRedLeaf · 2023-02-24, 06:45

It's no secret on this forum that I'm not the greatest fan of Shinkai's most recent movies. But I was in Tokushima, and stumbled on a ufotable cinema, and Suzume was screening, so I thought, why not?

In short, I liked it! In my opinion, it seems that Shinkai has finally found his footing, years after turning into his new creative direction. He was able to combine his trademark artistic style with a much more tightly written and cohesive narrative. As a result, the deeper meaning of the story came across much more clearly, and it was also delivered with a stronger emotive punch.

It goes without saying that the background art was excellent, as can be expected of any Shinkai movie. But what's also noticeable is the quantum leap in animation quality. The successive years of commercial success has likely translated into more resources for Shinkai to invest in smoother animation. There were several scenes where the higher frame rate allowed for incredibly fluid movement, while still successfully conveying weight and momentum. The flying scenes were especially good as a result.

The soundtrack, as usual, was excellent. Radwimps are at the top of their game, and they have again contributed memorable songs for a Shinkai movie.

The movie is not without flaws. Like Magin, I felt that

Spoiler for plot details:

I think Suzume was actually at about the right length. It was already starting to waffle a bit towards the end, so a longer run time would probably have caused more harm than good I think.

All in all, I'm looking forward to the movie's release in Singapore on March 9th, so I can watch it again with subtitles.

Last Sinner · 2023-02-24, 07:41

I'm seeing this movie have reviews flash across my phone every day now. Waiting until mid-April is going to be a grind.

Cosmic Eagle · 2023-02-28, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Shinkai turned 50. Thought he was closer to 40. Oh well. 2 months to Suzume being in cinemas.

I...thought he was like 40-something at most too....

Last Sinner · 2023-03-01, 00:39

I'm honestly thinking Shinkai turning 40 was a catalyst or secret unlock for proper recognition of his work, given Garden of Words was a decade ago.

Suzume has overtaken Jujutsu Kaisen 0 on the all-time revenue list.

TinyRedLeaf · 2023-03-09, 12:31

"Suzume" officially opened in Singapore today (March 9) with English and Chinese subtitles, and I was able to catch the first available screening at a cinema near my home. The novelty, of course, was no longer there on the second viewing, but on the other hand, I now have a better grasp of the plot development. I still feel that the movie started sagging in the third act, but I also now have a clearer idea of why the plot developed in that particular way.

As mentioned, there are by now multiple professional reviews available online. What's interesting to me is that there seems to be at least a couple of reviewers who feel that the writing in Suzume is stronger than it was in Shinkai's previous two efforts, with less reliance on mawkish sentimentality, and a better integration of themes and emotional beats with character and narrative flow.

So, there's really nothing new for me to add, in terms of a critical review. What I'll do instead is leave some thoughts on specific points in the show, and reflect on why some parts of Suzume resonated with me on a personal level.

All the following notes are huge spoilers, so I would recommend that you don't read them until you've watched the movie and formed your own conclusions about the story.

Spoiler for tributes and references:

Spoiler for closing doors and finding closure:

Suzume, to me, is ultimately a film about finding and achieving closure. There are three distinct types of closure in the movie.

1) There's the physical act of closing doors in lonely, abandoned places. That's the primary "quest" that propels the story's plot.

2) And then there's the closure of a temporal loop. In the final act, present-day Suzume reunites with herself as a young girl in the "Ever After", to comfort girl-Suzume and give her younger self the hope and courage to continue forging on despite the loss of her mother. As described by Souta, the Ever After is where the souls of the departed end up, and it's also a place where time has no meaning — the present and past can exist together. At the start of the movie, present-day Suzume recalled this meeting in the Ever After in a recurrent dream, although she did not realise at the time that the mysterious woman who gave her the toy chair was her future self. She had thought that it was her mother who had arrived to comfort her. This fateful meeting in the Ever After between the two versions of Suzume serves as the bookends to our protagonist's "Hero's Journey".

3) And lastly, there's the achievement of emotional closure, which unfolds on two levels.

3i) On one level, the closing and locking of doors requires a Closer to acknowledge the grief and anger of spirits whose lives had been tragically cut short by disaster, while also giving thanks for the love and care they had shown while they were still alive. This act of acknowledgement and thanksgiving is in fact part of the incantation a Closer must recite while closing a door and, as Souta describes it, it's the "weight of people's emotions" that keeps the worms at bay.

3ii) On the other level, there's also the emotional closure that Suzume achieves by the end of the movie, by finally allowing herself to acknowledge that her mother is dead and gone, a victim of the Fukushima tsunami and earthquake. By accepting the grief, Suzume was finally able to "let go" of her mother, and allow herself start moving forward again. In this sense, the Japanese title of the movie, Suzume no Tojimari actually has a double meaning — it's not just a reference to the physical act of closing the mystical doors through which the worms emerge, but also to the emotional closure Suzume achieves by letting go of her grief. I think this is a very powerful message of hope that Shinkai is trying to convey to the survivors of 3/11, which he had also attempted to do, albeit very clumsily, in Your Name. Specifically, it reminds me of this very poignant story about a man who continues to search for his wife, who is among the hundreds who are still missing, 10 years after the triple disaster in Fukushima.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/NV2jkIYIi5s

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Spoiler for plot device relating to earthquakes and keystones:

Thanks to the subtitles on my second viewing, I was better able to understand the mechanics that appear to govern the earthquake worms and the keystones. Or at least, I think I do, because a few crucial details are only hinted at, rather than spelt out explicitly.

1) The worms are the manifestation of the anger and grief of those whose lives had been cut short by disaster. That appears to be why they tend to break out from mystical doors in abandoned places, because there are no longer enough people there to keep the worms at bay with the "weight of their emotions".

2) The keystones are used to pin down the worms at two ends of Japan, one in the west and one in the east. Crucially, these "leylines", as I like to think of them, would shift locations over time. It's heavily implied, for example, that the eastern keystone — Sadajin, the "black cat" — was installed in Tokyo after the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923. Sadajin appeared in the movie only after the worm broke free in Tokyo, and Souta's ailing grandfather appears to be familiar with the black cat. I'm guessing that Souta's grandfather may have played a role in moving Sadajin to Tokyo, to pin down the worm and prevent it from causing another earthquake there.

3) So, it's my further guess that, in addition to closing doors in abandoned places, Closers have the ultimate responsibility of moving the keystones to new locations whenever it's necessary. The keystones themselves appear to be fond of humans in general, and Closers in particular. That appears to explain why Daijin was immediately imprinted on Suzume after she accidentally freed him at the start of the movie.

4) There's probably a specific ritual that a Closer needs to perform whenever he removes a keystone. At the very least, he would need to either ensure that the threat is no longer at the present location, or he would have to prepare a replacement for the removed keystone. In Suzume's case, she did neither. Daijin, having already bonded with Suzume, wants to become her "cat", but at the same time, he could not leave the worm in Miyazaki prefecture unchecked, so that's why he transferred that responsibility to Souta.

5) I got the sense that, under normal circumstances, a Closer would go on a journey with a properly freed cat/keystone to search for the new location that needs to be pinned down. Suzume only realised belatedly that Daijin had all along been guiding her towards locations where the worms would break free; she had misunderstood the nekomata's intentions as malicious mischief. So, from this perspective, I found it heartwarming that, towards the end, Suzume was able to repair her bond with Daijin. As I've said before, I think this reflects the crucial element of acknowledgement and thanksgiving that's so important for the door-closing ritual — after all, the keystone cats also want to be loved and appreciated for what they are and what they do.

Spoiler for why parts of the movie resonated with me:

As I've mentioned, I first watched Suzume in Tokushima city, the capital of Tokushima prefecture on the eastern end of Shikoku, the smallest of the four main Japanese islands, and likely one of the poorest regions in Japan, after Okinawa and possibly Tohoku.

I was struck by the coincidence of having unwittingly traced a part of Suzume's route across Japan, because I had also started my travels in Shikoku in Ehime prefecture, and ended in Tokushima.

I visited Shikoku specifically because I wanted to see, at first hand, the impact of rural depopulation in Japan. This is especially the case in the Iya Valley, one of the most isolated places in Japan, which runs east-west through the mountains that line the centre of Shikoku. This is where you'd find Ochiai village, where a handful of traditional thatch-roof cottages have been preserved, and also the "scarecrow village" of Nagoro. Wandering the deserted streets of Nagoro was a particularly creepy experience, because the scarecrows really drove home the feeling of desolation that is so prevalent in abandoned places like these.

Makoto Shinkai, for some reason or another, has been dwelling on this theme of loss and depopulation since Your Name, and I feel like he's finally struck the right note on this sensitive issue of national importance in Suzume.

And he's right in the sense that there is hope for a brighter future in these places, but the effort has to come from the younger generation. I had the tremendous luck of meeting a young half-Japanese, half-American woman at another small isolated village, about an hour's drive north of Kochi city. Her ancestors on her mother's side were from this region, and despite having grown up in Los Angeles, she feels a strong connection to the place, and has been visiting regularly to clean her ancestors' graves, for instance. She's now working with a business partner to explore possibilities for reviving local commerce in the valley, and I'm rooting strongly for her to succeed.

In fact, there's at least one other prominent foreigner who has also made it his personal mission to preserve or revive local culture in Shikoku. Alex Kerr, who's also American, has successfully preserved and restored a traditional thatch-roof cottage in the Iya Valley, which he's named Chiiori. I visited the cottage, but unfortunately wasn't able to make a reservation to stay there. But it's definitely located in a scenic part of the valley, and it's well worth a visit if you ever find yourself in this part of Japan.

It's very interesting to me that, in this part of Japan at least, foreigners may be able to make a key difference for local communities that are otherwise slowly fading away. That has given me a lot of food for thought, which was why it seemed so oddly apt for me to have watched Suzume at this particular time. It's almost as though Fate is trying to tell me something.

Finally, one last note: I was given this complimentary booklet when I bought my Suzume ticket at the ufotable cinema in Tokushima.

Of course, it's all in Japanese. If there's anyone who wants to give a stab at translating it or, better yet, who already knows where to find an existing scanlation, let me know.

Marina2 · 2023-03-09, 22:28

To people who have watched it. Are they any cameo appearance from other Shinkai film?

frodonk · 2023-03-11, 12:10

Welp, looks like we're firmly in the post-Your Name era, and the good old days of 5cm per second and Garden of Words will remain in the past.

Eater of All · 2023-04-16, 03:18

I'll need a second watch to thoroughly digest my thoughts, but one scene I did find neat is

Spoiler:

Last Sinner · 2023-04-18, 09:32

Well, I've seen it. And...oh boy...

Spoiler for At least it was better than Weathering With You?:

DragoonKain3 · 2023-04-18, 18:37

Unlike most people here, I absolutely loved Weathering with You (probably my #3 Shinkai movie), which to be fair dampened my enjoyment of Suzume.

But yeah, I didn't even know Suzume was airing, as I was on 'anime hiatus' for a couple of years (mainly because the most of the osananajimi focused animes in the past few years, ex. Bakarina and Tomo-chan just to name a couple, I've already read the manga/LN long ago). Been binging on Kdramas and more to the topic, Vtubers, of which IrYs mentioned she has seen it a few weeks back. Considering part of the reason why I follow IrYs is because she's a big shipper at heart, and she didn't like the ship in Suzume, I was heavily intrigued. Cue in the movie showing in my neck of the woods this past week, so I decided to check it out.

And at the beginning? Didn't see what IrYs was talking about. Souta was cool, and Suzume is IMO one of the coolest heroine Makoto has made. And aesthetic-wise, IMO SoutaXSuzume is the handsomest/prettiest couple that Makoto has ever made in his career.

But near the middle, I see what she was getting at. While Irys didn't specifically say why she didn't ship the main couple (for spoiler reasons), I personally didn't see how Suzume fell head over heels in love with him. Or heck, I didn't even see her connect with him on a deeper level, to the point that she will risk life and limb to rescue him. Like girl, you travelling across Japan and maybe even endangering millions of people just to rescue some hot ikemen you met not even a week ago? Yeah, can't suspend my disbelief on that one; not that girls chasing down hot guys doesn't happen IRL (goodness knows I know how crazy Kpop fans can get), but within the narrative, it didn't click with me.

First third of the movie is fine, middle of the movie I was left perplexed as to Suzume's motivations, but the last third was a mess. How Suzume met not only Serizawa but her Aunt in the middle of Tokyo left me rolling my eyes several times, then they have to slide in Aunt's "negative thoughts" of raising Suzume felt like a cheap attempt to try to get us to be emotional. Yeah, didn't buy the last third of the movie AT ALL.

So overall, IMO not one of Shinkai's best work; heck I will rank Suzume for sure in the bottome half, if not the bottom quarter. But it wasn't all bad - the adventure part of the story made even a homebody like me want to go out on a road trip or something. Maybe I'll go camping during the summer or something?

BWTraveller · 2023-04-18, 19:36

Personally, I'd place this at #3, with 2 being Your Name and, unlike a lot of people here, Weathering With You at number 1 (though honestly they're really close, and I like to think of them as a pair with alternate themes). But still, saying that this isn't as good as those two is really not saying much negative about it. Those two set the bar really, really high and it's hard to go past it.

In terms of the couple's romance, I thought it was fine, though it does fall into the problem that many movies have: far too little time to buy that they're truly in love. In Your Name and Weathering, the pair are depicted spending long periods of time getting to know each other, and even if we're merely given montages and such to demonstrate that time is passing it still adds weight to their later feelings and makes the changes in their feelings feel gradual where stories set over maybe a week or two (like a number of "chick flicks") have no less time yet manage to feel far less believable and far more rash, something which this one does suffer from. Still, I enjoyed it even if it was a little "rushed".

One thing is I was honestly expecting a different ending.

Spoiler:

Magin · 2023-04-19, 11:08

That ending might've happened if we were pre- Your Name.

Short version of my thoughts are, it depends on if you like the major themes present in 5cm and Garden of words- not just of separation, but also that life doesn't always have happy endings- well, the last three films have NOT been in line with those. For any more of this discussion, I will refer you back to the first two pages of this thread.

Personally, that's why I won't touch 5cm of Garden or Words, and while I know the ending, am also hesitant to touch Your Name. You can argue that 5cm and Garden represent the "true" Shinkai, but even if that is true... notice how only the films post- Your name are in the general public knowledge, but you almost never hear about the others? To go back to the discussion that is on the first two pages... I feel like 5cm and Garden ended up becoming "art for art's sake" (yes, I know that's an entire can of worms on its own), whereas Your Name and so on are now "This is what the public likes, so I'm going to make more of them."

TinyRedLeaf · 2023-04-19, 13:51

Well, what I'd say in response is that I'm glad to learn that Shinkai himself is getting tired of making teenage/young-adult romances.

Quote:

I personally felt a little bit tired of telling the very traditional romance story. I felt that in "Your Name." I [did] everything that I possibly could in terms of "boy meets girl" and "will they, won't they, will they meet". That element of romance is very relatable to the masses, which is why it was a subject matter that resonated with a large audience.

Personally, because I've done that so many times, I pivoted. I wanted to pivot to a more sisterhood type of romantic story, but I had to change that because my producer said, "You may be tired of these romantic stories, but your audience loves it." So in order to not make it too much of a romance, I decided to make her primary interest a chair.

Imagine that. Suzume could have been a lesbian romance (I highly doubt it would have been the kind of romance that the LGBTQ community would have cheered for, but who knows? It's all moot).

I don't even know if there's anyone presumptuous enough to think that they know what is "true" Shinkai. The man has changed (quite possibly because of his self-reflection in the aftermath of 3-11). I remain disappointed to this day that he has changed, but such is life. Wishing otherwise won't bring back the past, any more than I could wish U-2 back to their Joshua Tree days. I'd be curious if those who claim to love him because of Your Name. and Weathering With You would be as forgiving once he makes another full pivot.

I for one am looking forward to it. Shinkai is only getting older and wiser, and I want to see him tackling more substantial themes in the future, rather than continue making more fluffy feel-good movies with not much depth. Suzume, to me, represents a good start in that direction.

BWTraveller · 2023-04-19, 15:32

I understand some people may prefer not to write happy endings. That is the most common way to end. At the same time however, it's a mistake to think that happy endings are "all alike" or anything. If an author feels that he is able to come closer to the image he wants to convey by having a sad ending, that too is fine. However, yeah I myself don't enjoy that sort of thing and thus rarely even bother to watch/read stories I know end with a downer, especially if it's a complete downer where one of the major characters is just left alone with neither the happiness he sought nor any clearly available alternate happiness.

But I will say, if Shinkai wanted to write a story about dear friends who loved each other like sisters (or brothers, or brother and sister), I have no doubt he would make something beautiful, and I'd have no problem reading it. Heck, if the dear friends are a boy and a girl, why not put the focus on them being very dear friends and leave it at that? The (many) viewers who want romance will see a romance, and those that are still happy with just friends will still love it just as much. But yeah, far as I can tell, stories where a couple works out at the end tends to be most popular on average, followed by bittersweet tragedies where the love is established but tragic events rip them apart like Romeo & Juliet, and the least popular ones are the ones where things just don't work out.

Ultimately, I'd say most people who love any particular creator will have works they love and works they hate, even periods of either. Nothing wrong with that, obviously. There are some Shinkai works I simply don't have any interest in ever watching, and there are others that I could watch over and over. Suzume is definitely in the latter category for me. I hope at the least that when/if Shinkai comes up with a story that he's completely happy with that it's something I still find as moving and beautiful as these last few.

2022-12-21, 09:03	Link #82
Magin #1 Akashiya Moka Fan Author Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where magic is real Age: 35	I finally took the time to watch this the other day, and overall, I really enjoyed it. Of course, it was also the first film by Makoto Shinkai that I've actually seen, so I don't exactly have any better or worse movies to compare it to. On that note, while I haven't seen Tenki no Ko, I know how it goes... I say this because Suzume no Tojimari felt like Tenki no Ko with heavy influences of Howl's Moving Castle. Spoiler for Suzume no Tojimari: To get more detailed... Once the plot really kicked in, I couldn't help but think "And this is why you're supposed to close doors and windows in Japan!" Of course, without Suzume opening that first door, we probably wouldn't have much a a movie... though I suppose all the other doors were going to open regardless. Also, picking up that stone that would become Daijin... felt like a real bone-headed move. Being a country bumpkin (what inakamono apparently translates to) only gives you so much of an excuse. And I will stand by saying that Daijin is Kyuubei's country bumpkin cousin. On Daijin... yeah, that thing was ANNOYING. Certainly antagonistic for most of the movie, though it orinally made it seem like he(?) was also evil. But much like Kyuubei, he really wasn't evil.. However, an Annoying Twat that Suzume should've dropkicked into the doors at some point? Absolutely. I did feel a little satisfaction watching Daijin literally deflate when Suzume said, "I hate you! It's your fault!" Then we have Souta... he felt VERY inspired by Howl. Unfortunately, because my own Japanese ability isn't strong enough yet, the details of the Things that came from the doors was lost on me (I think they got called earthworms?), other than they create earthquakes in this movie. Plus, whatever his grandfather was talking about when Suzume visited the old man... didn't understand that part either. Also, Souta (or technically his spirit.soul, I guess) freezing into ice? Was that a result of Daijin's curse, or his hunt for the doors? Anyways, this made the roles from Tenki no Ko get reversed: Souta was the Hina of this movie, and getting trapped in the world beyond the door. Now for my biggest criticism, and probably why I shouldn't watch anything beyond Your name, Tenki no Ko, and this: I felt that the traveling with Serizawa to find Souta and permanently seal the doors was the weakest part of the movie. In contrast, Suzume traveling on her own before the meeting up with the mama was absolutely fun (okay, so maybe watching the kids and the various happenings at the snack bar, including the responsibilities Suzume had to take on) and my personal favorite part, amusingly enough. So then the traveling... I opened some spoilers that said apparently the two cats are actually guardian spirits of some sort... so you're tlling me that BOTH Suzume and her aunt have these cat-like creatures? The black one showing up was a HUGE surprise, and then watching as it treated Daijin like its kitten... was that supposed to symbolize the relationship between Suzume and her aunt, even though Suzume was calling calling her aunt by her name? At least, I assume that was still her aunt. Anyways, we had to travel all the way from Kyushu to Sendai in Northeastern Japan... yeah, the symbolism for 3/11 here was STRONG. Plus all the product placement along the way... and so they manage to find the house where Suzume and her mother lived before 3/11. With all the black crayon covering the pages... yeah, i guess a little Suzume wouldn't want to remember that day, especially with it apparently killing her mother (Geez, i thought Disney was bad for killing mothers... dammit Japan, this is one thing you DIDN'T have to learn from Disney.) And on this note: early on we see a little Suzume in the strange world, meeting someone just as she wakes up from a dream. I had a STRONG suspicion that was going to be her future self... and yes, it was. So present-day Suzume is responsible for making sure that her past self lived... I wih I understood the explanation of the World beyond the Doors. And to go back a step... well, going through the door leads to finding Souta (sill as a chair, interestingly enough), and I guess by trying to free him, Suzume was sarting to become encase in ice or something as well? I REALLY wish i knew what was happening there... meanwhile, our two cat creatures are proving their worth- the blck one transformed into some sort of beast capable of fighting the worm things, and Daijin... well, Daijin helped to free Souta, all to stay on Suzume's good side. Plus ultimate reverting back to that stone from the beginning to seal the things in the World Beyond. And so we finish with Souta going back to Tokyo... i guess some sort of promise was made? We get a similar scene to the opening here: Suzume is riding her bike down a hill, and she slows down... as she encounters Souta again. Cut to credits, plus a few post-credit scenes showing some of the other characters in the movie. Overall, it was really good, despite not understand the fine details of the plot. The other thing that was interesting to me is that according to some reviews (more specifically, the ANN one), this movie seemed to be about Shinkai's lament of the countryside depopulation. Sure, there's beautiful sceneery out there... but I think he didn't want to address just how hard it is to live in the countryside now. Mostly because, I would argue countryside living requires an entirely different set of skills than most people today have, courtesy of modern conveniences. If he had touched on that part, I might've been able to sympathize more. __________________ Gifted...or Cursed? R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net! All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!

2023-02-14, 18:34	Link #84
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Shinkai turned 50. Thought he was closer to 40. Oh well. 2 months to Suzume being in cinemas. __________________

2023-02-15, 06:52	Link #85
Magin #1 Akashiya Moka Fan Author Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where magic is real Age: 35	He's 50? Damn, I also thought he was closer to 40. I guess that only doing movies (and maybe any side projects) has hopefully helped him keep healthy. __________________ Gifted...or Cursed? R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net! All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!

2023-02-15, 09:12	Link #86
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	This article was what notified me of that. __________________

2023-02-24, 06:45	Link #87
TinyRedLeaf Moving in circles Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 49	It's no secret on this forum that I'm not the greatest fan of Shinkai's most recent movies. But I was in Tokushima, and stumbled on a ufotable cinema, and Suzume was screening, so I thought, why not? In short, I liked it! In my opinion, it seems that Shinkai has finally found his footing, years after turning into his new creative direction. He was able to combine his trademark artistic style with a much more tightly written and cohesive narrative. As a result, the deeper meaning of the story came across much more clearly, and it was also delivered with a stronger emotive punch. It goes without saying that the background art was excellent, as can be expected of any Shinkai movie. But what's also noticeable is the quantum leap in animation quality. The successive years of commercial success has likely translated into more resources for Shinkai to invest in smoother animation. There were several scenes where the higher frame rate allowed for incredibly fluid movement, while still successfully conveying weight and momentum. The flying scenes were especially good as a result. The soundtrack, as usual, was excellent. Radwimps are at the top of their game, and they have again contributed memorable songs for a Shinkai movie. The movie is not without flaws. Like Magin, I felt that Spoiler for plot details: the movie lost a bit steam about two-thirds of the way in, after Suzume got separated from Souta. The story draws most of its energy from the interaction between the two leads, so his absence sapped the movie of its strength. Thankfully, I felt the momentum from the earlier half of the movie was strong enough to keep things moving along towards the finale. Serizawa and Suzume's adoptive mother were a distraction, I felt, and did not contribute significantly to plot development. I would rather that they have been left out, or reduced to smaller supporting roles. On the other hand, unlike Magin, I enjoyed Daijin as a character, I actually felt sad when Suzume's harsh words literally deflated him. Daijin, in my opinion, was symbolic of all the souls and lost things in the shadow world, the people and lives that had been snuffed out and left behind by the passage of time. All they wanted was to be wanted and loved, and I thought Daijin's outward appearance represented that. It was a nice touch. If nothing else, I highly suspect that Daijin would soon become hot-selling merch. I think Suzume was actually at about the right length. It was already starting to waffle a bit towards the end, so a longer run time would probably have caused more harm than good I think. All in all, I'm looking forward to the movie's release in Singapore on March 9th, so I can watch it again with subtitles.

2023-02-24, 07:41	Link #88
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	I'm seeing this movie have reviews flash across my phone every day now. Waiting until mid-April is going to be a grind. __________________

2023-03-01, 00:39	Link #90
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	I'm honestly thinking Shinkai turning 40 was a catalyst or secret unlock for proper recognition of his work, given Garden of Words was a decade ago. Suzume has overtaken Jujutsu Kaisen 0 on the all-time revenue list. __________________

2023-03-09, 12:31	Link #91
TinyRedLeaf Moving in circles Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 49	"Suzume" officially opened in Singapore today (March 9) with English and Chinese subtitles, and I was able to catch the first available screening at a cinema near my home. The novelty, of course, was no longer there on the second viewing, but on the other hand, I now have a better grasp of the plot development. I still feel that the movie started sagging in the third act, but I also now have a clearer idea of why the plot developed in that particular way. As mentioned, there are by now multiple professional reviews available online. What's interesting to me is that there seems to be at least a couple of reviewers who feel that the writing in Suzume is stronger than it was in Shinkai's previous two efforts, with less reliance on mawkish sentimentality, and a better integration of themes and emotional beats with character and narrative flow. So, there's really nothing new for me to add, in terms of a critical review. What I'll do instead is leave some thoughts on specific points in the show, and reflect on why some parts of Suzume resonated with me on a personal level. All the following notes are huge spoilers, so I would recommend that you don't read them until you've watched the movie and formed your own conclusions about the story. Spoiler for tributes and references: 1) A number of reviewers had pointed out that the plot device of earthquake-inducing worms and keystones is a modern take on the namazu of Japanese myth. To me, though, the first thing that came to mind is actually the Nightwalker of Studio Ghibli's Mononoke Hime. Like the worms of Suzume, the Nightwalker was also capable of wreaking considerable environmental havoc when it went on a rampage, and when it died and collapsed, so the worms seem to me to be a subtle reference to that Ghibli classic. 2) More pointedly, it appears that Daijin is at the very least a partial reference to Studio Ghibli's Whisper of the Heart, which also featured a mysterious cat that led the protagonist towards her destiny. Whisper of the Heart was in fact mentioned by an unnamed passer-by in Suzume, who was amused by Daijin's antics on board a train. 3) Shinkai continues to have a penchant for weaving in the lyrics of old pop-songs into his movies. Listen out for the cheesy city-pop tunes that Souta's friend, Serizawa, plays on his car radio — the lyrics are all meant to allude to specific plot and narrative developments in Suzume. Spoiler for closing doors and finding closure: Suzume, to me, is ultimately a film about finding and achieving closure. There are three distinct types of closure in the movie. 1) There's the physical act of closing doors in lonely, abandoned places. That's the primary "quest" that propels the story's plot. 2) And then there's the closure of a temporal loop. In the final act, present-day Suzume reunites with herself as a young girl in the "Ever After", to comfort girl-Suzume and give her younger self the hope and courage to continue forging on despite the loss of her mother. As described by Souta, the Ever After is where the souls of the departed end up, and it's also a place where time has no meaning — the present and past can exist together. At the start of the movie, present-day Suzume recalled this meeting in the Ever After in a recurrent dream, although she did not realise at the time that the mysterious woman who gave her the toy chair was her future self. She had thought that it was her mother who had arrived to comfort her. This fateful meeting in the Ever After between the two versions of Suzume serves as the bookends to our protagonist's "Hero's Journey". 3) And lastly, there's the achievement of emotional closure, which unfolds on two levels. 3i) On one level, the closing and locking of doors requires a Closer to acknowledge the grief and anger of spirits whose lives had been tragically cut short by disaster, while also giving thanks for the love and care they had shown while they were still alive. This act of acknowledgement and thanksgiving is in fact part of the incantation a Closer must recite while closing a door and, as Souta describes it, it's the "weight of people's emotions" that keeps the worms at bay. 3ii) On the other level, there's also the emotional closure that Suzume achieves by the end of the movie, by finally allowing herself to acknowledge that her mother is dead and gone, a victim of the Fukushima tsunami and earthquake. By accepting the grief, Suzume was finally able to "let go" of her mother, and allow herself start moving forward again. In this sense, the Japanese title of the movie, Suzume no Tojimari actually has a double meaning — it's not just a reference to the physical act of closing the mystical doors through which the worms emerge, but also to the emotional closure Suzume achieves by letting go of her grief. I think this is a very powerful message of hope that Shinkai is trying to convey to the survivors of 3/11, which he had also attempted to do, albeit very clumsily, in Your Name. Specifically, it reminds me of this very poignant story about a man who continues to search for his wife, who is among the hundreds who are still missing, 10 years after the triple disaster in Fukushima. YouTube https://youtu.be/NV2jkIYIi5s Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? Spoiler for plot device relating to earthquakes and keystones: Thanks to the subtitles on my second viewing, I was better able to understand the mechanics that appear to govern the earthquake worms and the keystones. Or at least, I think I do, because a few crucial details are only hinted at, rather than spelt out explicitly. 1) The worms are the manifestation of the anger and grief of those whose lives had been cut short by disaster. That appears to be why they tend to break out from mystical doors in abandoned places, because there are no longer enough people there to keep the worms at bay with the "weight of their emotions". 2) The keystones are used to pin down the worms at two ends of Japan, one in the west and one in the east. Crucially, these "leylines", as I like to think of them, would shift locations over time. It's heavily implied, for example, that the eastern keystone — Sadajin, the "black cat" — was installed in Tokyo after the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923. Sadajin appeared in the movie only after the worm broke free in Tokyo, and Souta's ailing grandfather appears to be familiar with the black cat. I'm guessing that Souta's grandfather may have played a role in moving Sadajin to Tokyo, to pin down the worm and prevent it from causing another earthquake there. 3) So, it's my further guess that, in addition to closing doors in abandoned places, Closers have the ultimate responsibility of moving the keystones to new locations whenever it's necessary. The keystones themselves appear to be fond of humans in general, and Closers in particular. That appears to explain why Daijin was immediately imprinted on Suzume after she accidentally freed him at the start of the movie. 4) There's probably a specific ritual that a Closer needs to perform whenever he removes a keystone. At the very least, he would need to either ensure that the threat is no longer at the present location, or he would have to prepare a replacement for the removed keystone. In Suzume's case, she did neither. Daijin, having already bonded with Suzume, wants to become her "cat", but at the same time, he could not leave the worm in Miyazaki prefecture unchecked, so that's why he transferred that responsibility to Souta. 5) I got the sense that, under normal circumstances, a Closer would go on a journey with a properly freed cat/keystone to search for the new location that needs to be pinned down. Suzume only realised belatedly that Daijin had all along been guiding her towards locations where the worms would break free; she had misunderstood the nekomata's intentions as malicious mischief. So, from this perspective, I found it heartwarming that, towards the end, Suzume was able to repair her bond with Daijin. As I've said before, I think this reflects the crucial element of acknowledgement and thanksgiving that's so important for the door-closing ritual — after all, the keystone cats also want to be loved and appreciated for what they are and what they do. Spoiler for why parts of the movie resonated with me: As I've mentioned, I first watched Suzume in Tokushima city, the capital of Tokushima prefecture on the eastern end of Shikoku, the smallest of the four main Japanese islands, and likely one of the poorest regions in Japan, after Okinawa and possibly Tohoku. I was struck by the coincidence of having unwittingly traced a part of Suzume's route across Japan, because I had also started my travels in Shikoku in Ehime prefecture, and ended in Tokushima. I visited Shikoku specifically because I wanted to see, at first hand, the impact of rural depopulation in Japan. This is especially the case in the Iya Valley, one of the most isolated places in Japan, which runs east-west through the mountains that line the centre of Shikoku. This is where you'd find Ochiai village, where a handful of traditional thatch-roof cottages have been preserved, and also the "scarecrow village" of Nagoro. Wandering the deserted streets of Nagoro was a particularly creepy experience, because the scarecrows really drove home the feeling of desolation that is so prevalent in abandoned places like these. Makoto Shinkai, for some reason or another, has been dwelling on this theme of loss and depopulation since Your Name, and I feel like he's finally struck the right note on this sensitive issue of national importance in Suzume. And he's right in the sense that there is hope for a brighter future in these places, but the effort has to come from the younger generation. I had the tremendous luck of meeting a young half-Japanese, half-American woman at another small isolated village, about an hour's drive north of Kochi city. Her ancestors on her mother's side were from this region, and despite having grown up in Los Angeles, she feels a strong connection to the place, and has been visiting regularly to clean her ancestors' graves, for instance. She's now working with a business partner to explore possibilities for reviving local commerce in the valley, and I'm rooting strongly for her to succeed. In fact, there's at least one other prominent foreigner who has also made it his personal mission to preserve or revive local culture in Shikoku. Alex Kerr, who's also American, has successfully preserved and restored a traditional thatch-roof cottage in the Iya Valley, which he's named Chiiori. I visited the cottage, but unfortunately wasn't able to make a reservation to stay there. But it's definitely located in a scenic part of the valley, and it's well worth a visit if you ever find yourself in this part of Japan. It's very interesting to me that, in this part of Japan at least, foreigners may be able to make a key difference for local communities that are otherwise slowly fading away. That has given me a lot of food for thought, which was why it seemed so oddly apt for me to have watched Suzume at this particular time. It's almost as though Fate is trying to tell me something. Finally, one last note: I was given this complimentary booklet when I bought my Suzume ticket at the ufotable cinema in Tokushima. Of course, it's all in Japanese. If there's anyone who wants to give a stab at translating it or, better yet, who already knows where to find an existing scanlation, let me know.

2023-03-09, 22:28	Link #92
Marina2 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	To people who have watched it. Are they any cameo appearance from other Shinkai film? __________________

2023-03-11, 12:10	Link #93
frodonk Master of Killing Time Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Makinohara Service Area	Welp, looks like we're firmly in the post-Your Name era, and the good old days of 5cm per second and Garden of Words will remain in the past. __________________ Just my MAL profile, I'm putting this here for no particular reason.

2023-04-16, 03:18	Link #94
Eater of All NOM Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Outside the Asylum	I'll need a second watch to thoroughly digest my thoughts, but one scene I did find neat is Spoiler: Suzume locking the door to her house and immediately using another key to _unlock_ her bike. This exact one-two sequence was shown at least once (maybe twice) at the start and once at the end, where it takes a whole new meaning. Not only does locking a door signify closure, but unlocking the bike (in a way, similar to unlocking/opening a door) enables one to move forward. And in a way while Suzume is going around Japan closing doors, she's also been opening "doors" to new connections and new experiences. __________________

2023-04-18, 09:32	Link #95
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Well, I've seen it. And...oh boy... Spoiler for At least it was better than Weathering With You?: But...that really isn't saying much. I honestly had some hope in the opening part. Seeing the night sky clear enough to see a nebula, a full moon, vapour. The intrigue of post-disaster areas full of ships and overgrowth, chilling abandoned areas. Robe boy enters post-dream with the sound of the ocean (which is a good thing because...if she kept doing the splits while riding on that slope, she's have had a worse fall than the female leads in Your Name and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time). Mandatory train crossing and power lines scene. Yes, Suzume, you are totally stalking this guy. A nice sweeping wide shot of the stone and water. A wound that literally feels like it was inflicted upon the viewer. That naughty little cat makes its appearance. Miyazaki Broadcasting...hmm... And then the clown fiesta starts. Merging Souta with the chair - as bonkers as it is, it is nowhere near as stupid as the gun in Weathering With You and had significant meaning for Suzume, so I was cool with that, on top of the jazz piece playing during it along with a chase scene that made sense compared to all the ones in WWY. As well as the cat being the effective villain for the majority of the movie. Even the cat owners I know swear to not trust them, so this fits. And then began the utter suspension of disbelief - teen decides to go rogue and it's just...accepted? Not buying it...And yeah, the 'better not be a boy!' comment is bound to get old fast. What was with Suzume being allowed to sleep on the deck of the boat? Are you seriously telling me people would have been okay with that or that she would have been left alone the whole time? I don't buy that for a moment... Okay, it's social media time. Hey look, it's Whisper of the Heart. Wonder how many Miyazaki references will be made by the end. That cat has become a real poser. Flute piece was nice as well as the country flora. And then began a major irritation throughout the movie - random character appears to be Suzume's chaperone. They appear briefly, you hardly get any reason to care or get invested in them (flashes of WWY beginning to reappear). The first one even provides a place to sleep along with...the rant about boys...I...have no words... Okay, it's benevolent woman #2 time. Shinkai gets to call McDonalds by its real name - that's when you know you've made it, right?! The kids games when Suzume had to mind them - if that's what kids do, I will be grateful for forever and a day I have nothing to do with them. Cue the aunt finally getting a clue and snapping into action - is what I would say if WWY didn't exist. Get the feeling the guy getting the raw end of the deal will be regular. Suzume finally earning her keep, yay. And then came my third big source of irritation - the excessive melodrama. I know there's some in any Shinkai work, but it was contained. Scenes like these, it's virtually being fed into the brain, heart and liver all at once. You're telling me an entire town isn't going to not send someone to find out why an abandoned theme park is suddenly operating again?! That cat enjoys its evil poses, don't try to hide it. Trainhopping time. Swear that a building from WWY showed up when they went to Souta's apartment. Another suspension of disbelief - Souta as a teacher? Or Serizawa? Not in modern times. More chase scenes - guess they're a must now for Shinkai. And falling...Thought the black and white scene was a good touch. That sequence made for a great bonding moment with Suzume's mother. Which lasted hardly any time thanks to the darn cat deciding to get all emo because it's deluded itself into thinking Suzume will surely like it over Souta....?! The next bit made me wonder...it's cool to help a girl if it's raining or on a country road, but it's not if she's wounded and missing shoes?! But all my irritations before now and to the rest of the movie were outdone by the 'Whether one lives or dies is a matter of luck' line...I...felt so sick after hearing that...The pacifism from WWY is back, I guess. What an absolute defeatist line that seemed to cut against the general vibe of the movie...(As someone who has had some misfortune in the genetic lottery, I can understand but that attitude is downright pathetic. You can make lifestyle choices, you can choose what to do with your spare time [within financial means], you can choose what you eat. I get the whole vulnerability via nature deal, but doubling down on it...I could not abide.) And then the scene where Serizawa found Suzume and Tamaki shows up moments later...this was the moment where I lost empathy for all the characters...Who acts like this and why should I believe in them... Of all the Miyazaki spots, the Kiki's Delivery Service theme was the moment that worked the most for me. It was a brief reprieve from what Serizawa summed up so aptly. 'This family really has issues.' Followed by more melodrama and car roof shenanigans. Then the big black cat followed by mega melodrama and even more absurd scenes. Car music got corny beyond belief. The cat causes a crash, but at least the car roof finally worked, right?! And then it's climax time. Time to go back to the scene of the tragedy and close Suzume's door. Can't resolve the worms without a melodrama rant (wanting to live, to persist - good things but...this was conveyed so poorly...) Sayonara cat. And...it just suddenly ends...we get a grown up Suzume for a few moments and Souta decides to reverse Mononoke. TLR - thanks for explaining the symbolism in more depth. It filled in a few gaps. But really, all I can say is...while the story and characters weren't WWY level pain, I was still underwhelmed. Up to and including Your Name, I was very invested in the characters Shinkai created and their situation. There was a clear theme and characters made regular decisions that were believable. Situations/movements were resolved in ways that were plausible. The chaperone trope that was omnipresent in WWY and back here - it's so damn painful. Is that all the secondary cast exists for? The story and character actions nuke empathy for the characters themselves - I still had empathy for Suzume's plight and for the settings. But if characters are going to keep making bad decisions and just be enabled to keep rolling on when common sense says someone would have acted rational at one of at least twenty points, I can't get invested in that. 6.5/10. Have to score it higher than WWY, but not by much. I've had to accept a truth - this is what Shinkai wants to do now. Keep making this kind of film over and over. It's what people want to see. The numbers show it. He has entered a mogul phase. The creator phase is over. If I keep hoping for Your Name or Garden of Words level work, I will be disappointed every time from now on. I played this game with Miyazaki and regretted it. I'm not doing it with Shinkai. This is where I close my door on watching new works of his. I will always value the creator phase of his career and will keep recommending most titles from that period. But I am done with him and what he's become. He's effectively proven The Sky Crawlers right. Culpability goes with the viewers as much as it does him. I have to break out of that cycle. Ironically, I feel irked enough to watch anime again on a more regular basis. At least some good came of seeing Suzume. __________________

2023-04-18, 18:37	Link #96
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	Unlike most people here, I absolutely loved Weathering with You (probably my #3 Shinkai movie), which to be fair dampened my enjoyment of Suzume. But yeah, I didn't even know Suzume was airing, as I was on 'anime hiatus' for a couple of years (mainly because the most of the osananajimi focused animes in the past few years, ex. Bakarina and Tomo-chan just to name a couple, I've already read the manga/LN long ago). Been binging on Kdramas and more to the topic, Vtubers, of which IrYs mentioned she has seen it a few weeks back. Considering part of the reason why I follow IrYs is because she's a big shipper at heart, and she didn't like the ship in Suzume, I was heavily intrigued. Cue in the movie showing in my neck of the woods this past week, so I decided to check it out. And at the beginning? Didn't see what IrYs was talking about. Souta was cool, and Suzume is IMO one of the coolest heroine Makoto has made. And aesthetic-wise, IMO SoutaXSuzume is the handsomest/prettiest couple that Makoto has ever made in his career. But near the middle, I see what she was getting at. While Irys didn't specifically say why she didn't ship the main couple (for spoiler reasons), I personally didn't see how Suzume fell head over heels in love with him. Or heck, I didn't even see her connect with him on a deeper level, to the point that she will risk life and limb to rescue him. Like girl, you travelling across Japan and maybe even endangering millions of people just to rescue some hot ikemen you met not even a week ago? Yeah, can't suspend my disbelief on that one; not that girls chasing down hot guys doesn't happen IRL (goodness knows I know how crazy Kpop fans can get), but within the narrative, it didn't click with me. First third of the movie is fine, middle of the movie I was left perplexed as to Suzume's motivations, but the last third was a mess. How Suzume met not only Serizawa but her Aunt in the middle of Tokyo left me rolling my eyes several times, then they have to slide in Aunt's "negative thoughts" of raising Suzume felt like a cheap attempt to try to get us to be emotional. Yeah, didn't buy the last third of the movie AT ALL. So overall, IMO not one of Shinkai's best work; heck I will rank Suzume for sure in the bottome half, if not the bottom quarter. But it wasn't all bad - the adventure part of the story made even a homebody like me want to go out on a road trip or something. Maybe I'll go camping during the summer or something? __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)

2023-04-18, 19:36	Link #97
BWTraveller Born to ship Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Texas	Personally, I'd place this at #3, with 2 being Your Name and, unlike a lot of people here, Weathering With You at number 1 (though honestly they're really close, and I like to think of them as a pair with alternate themes). But still, saying that this isn't as good as those two is really not saying much negative about it. Those two set the bar really, really high and it's hard to go past it. In terms of the couple's romance, I thought it was fine, though it does fall into the problem that many movies have: far too little time to buy that they're truly in love. In Your Name and Weathering, the pair are depicted spending long periods of time getting to know each other, and even if we're merely given montages and such to demonstrate that time is passing it still adds weight to their later feelings and makes the changes in their feelings feel gradual where stories set over maybe a week or two (like a number of "chick flicks") have no less time yet manage to feel far less believable and far more rash, something which this one does suffer from. Still, I enjoyed it even if it was a little "rushed". One thing is I was honestly expecting a different ending. Spoiler: Specifically, I was expecting that either Suzume would hear Souta and he'd force her to say goodbye, or she'd realize that she couldn't change that he'd become a keystone and instead she'd become the second keystone, finishing the seal and sacrificing her own present to be with him, with the possibility that someday the two of them would be released and find a future together.

2023-04-19, 11:08	Link #98
Magin #1 Akashiya Moka Fan Author Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Where magic is real Age: 35	That ending might've happened if we were pre- Your Name. Short version of my thoughts are, it depends on if you like the major themes present in 5cm and Garden of words- not just of separation, but also that life doesn't always have happy endings- well, the last three films have NOT been in line with those. For any more of this discussion, I will refer you back to the first two pages of this thread. Personally, that's why I won't touch 5cm of Garden or Words, and while I know the ending, am also hesitant to touch Your Name. You can argue that 5cm and Garden represent the "true" Shinkai, but even if that is true... notice how only the films post- Your name are in the general public knowledge, but you almost never hear about the others? To go back to the discussion that is on the first two pages... I feel like 5cm and Garden ended up becoming "art for art's sake" (yes, I know that's an entire can of worms on its own), whereas Your Name and so on are now "This is what the public likes, so I'm going to make more of them." __________________ Gifted...or Cursed? R+V fanfic- Chapter 4 of A Water Bride and a Vampire is now up at FF.net! All fans of Inner or Outer Moka, come join her fanclub!

2023-04-19, 15:32	Link #100
BWTraveller Born to ship Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Texas	I understand some people may prefer not to write happy endings. That is the most common way to end. At the same time however, it's a mistake to think that happy endings are "all alike" or anything. If an author feels that he is able to come closer to the image he wants to convey by having a sad ending, that too is fine. However, yeah I myself don't enjoy that sort of thing and thus rarely even bother to watch/read stories I know end with a downer, especially if it's a complete downer where one of the major characters is just left alone with neither the happiness he sought nor any clearly available alternate happiness. But I will say, if Shinkai wanted to write a story about dear friends who loved each other like sisters (or brothers, or brother and sister), I have no doubt he would make something beautiful, and I'd have no problem reading it. Heck, if the dear friends are a boy and a girl, why not put the focus on them being very dear friends and leave it at that? The (many) viewers who want romance will see a romance, and those that are still happy with just friends will still love it just as much. But yeah, far as I can tell, stories where a couple works out at the end tends to be most popular on average, followed by bittersweet tragedies where the love is established but tragic events rip them apart like Romeo & Juliet, and the least popular ones are the ones where things just don't work out. Ultimately, I'd say most people who love any particular creator will have works they love and works they hate, even periods of either. Nothing wrong with that, obviously. There are some Shinkai works I simply don't have any interest in ever watching, and there are others that I could watch over and over. Suzume is definitely in the latter category for me. I hope at the least that when/if Shinkai comes up with a story that he's completely happy with that it's something I still find as moving and beautiful as these last few.