[Manga] Naruto Chapter 628 Discussion Thread (btw, no Naruto next week)

[itachi-san314]

^the alliance no, but sasuke yes... although a naruto/sasuke combo is highly likely to defeat whoever the last villain is (probably madara)

[Cookie-Monster]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

^the alliance no, but sasuke yes... although a naruto/sasuke combo is highly likely to defeat whoever the last villain is (probably madara)

I'm confused as to what exactly Sasuke can do.

The opponents Naruto has defeated were wayyyyyyyy more powerful than Sasuke's.

Sasuke's strongest opponent was Itachi, and Itachi let him win.

Sasuke is due for another power-up before he can tag-team properly with naruto.

If it was any other opponent, sasuke at his current level could be useful. But Madara is like a super-version of sasuke. I dont see how hell plausibly be of any use. It's almost like the Gaara vs Sasuke situation again. Big giant ten-tails too much raw power for Sasuke.

Either -

1) Sasuke gets a powerup before fight begins (which means long delay) before fight even shown.

2) Sasuke receives powerup directly from Naruto's Kyuubi chakra giving him super amplified MS powers (lame and cheesy, hope this doesn't happen)

3) Sasuke and Naruto combine tactically like in the Zabuza fight. Two outclassed guys using smarts to defeat a bigger opponent. Sasuke's planning with Naruto's recklessness. (This would be my preferred scenario)

[itachi-san314]

itachi's fight was a strange one. i'd say his strongest opponent so far was danzo and now he has EMS so he can do quite a lot i'd say. he already has a powerup (EMS) that we haven't seen in action yet

[Kenu]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Heyy, look, Sakura got a couple of lines...Yeeeahhh....That's about it.

The exact same lines as per usual..."Shannaro!"

lol

[itachi-san314]

just my random 2 cents, but i was thinking how madara could know the seals to edo tensei. tobirama obviously would have gone out of his way to make sure madara didn't know and we saw madara's flashback (most of it anyway) and he never saw it in action. so then i figured that he must have had zetsu watching tobirama develop/use edo tensei and learned that way. then i thought, wow, zetsu is the most ingenious/lazy writing tool ever. whenever somebody knows something they shouldn't feasibly know, it's always: well it must have been zetsu... not that that's a new thought, but it's just getting quite old hat. assuming that is how he knows anyway

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

just my random 2 cents, but i was thinking how madara could know the seals to edo tensei. tobirama obviously would have gone out of his way to make sure madara didn't know and we saw madara's flashback (most of it anyway) and he never saw it in action. so then i figured that he must have had zetsu watching tobirama develop/use edo tensei and learned that way. then i thought, wow, zetsu is the most ingenious/lazy writing tool ever. whenever somebody knows something they shouldn't feasibly know, it's always: well it must have been zetsu... not that that's a new thought, but it's just getting quite old hat. assuming that is how he knows anyway

yeah if we assume tobirama went out of his way to hide the jutsu then zetsu is likely the reason madara knows...
but based on hashirama's words in 618 soon after they were resurrected: "He was right about it being an immoral jutsu" i tend to believe that tobirama actually shared the jutsu for whatever reason. i mean tobirama himself states it was the senju who valued jutsu and we see that hirashin was in play since before the founding of the village. the "he" in hashirama's statement could be madara who may have witnessed the jutsu during their warring times or was there when nidaime developed it. i dont think its very likely tobirama offered to resurrect madaras lost brothers, but i can see it happening and madara pretty much saying no thank you but retaining the knowledge of the jutsu.

another thought, "he" could also refer to hash and tobis dad...

[DarthDestroiar]

Best thing on this chapter... Madara rape face!

[Sasukemaru]

Cookie-Monster...wth are you talking about? If anything Sasuke's victories are FAR more impressive then Naruto's...let's do a quick recap.

Naruto vs Obito...result is a draw, and naruto had the help of kakashi, gai, and bee.

Naruto vs Pain...result is a victory because he had the strongest ninja village fighting with him...the entire village at that.

Naruto vs Kakuzu...result is a victory, with the help of Kakashi and several leaf ninja.


Sasuke vs danzo...result is a victory with no help.

Sasuke vs deidara....result is a victory with no help.

Basically the list goes on...Sasuke beats all of his opponents without any help 95 percent of the time, Naruto does not have 1 single marquee win under his belt that didn't require some sort of help, to say his resume of opponents is better then Sasuke's is absolutely ludicrous.

I honestly don't know why everyone thinks Naruto is so far ahead of sasuke now, naruto couldn't beat tobi with the help of 3 kage level fighters....Do you honestly think Naruto is on some God level? Lmao, that must make tobi the strongest being to ever live then. cmon now...the proof is in the pudding.

[Vajra]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

Cookie-Monster...wth are you talking about? If anything Sasuke's victories are FAR more impressive then Naruto's...let's do a quick recap.

Naruto vs Obito...result is a draw, and naruto had the help of kakashi, gai, and bee.

Naruto vs Pain...result is a victory because he had the strongest ninja village fighting with him...the entire village at that.

Naruto vs Kakuzu...result is a victory, with the help of Kakashi and several leaf ninja.


Sasuke vs danzo...result is a victory with no help.

Sasuke vs deidara....result is a victory with no help.

Basically the list goes on...Sasuke beats all of his opponents without any help 95 percent of the time, Naruto does not have 1 single marquee win under his belt that didn't require some sort of help, to say his resume of opponents is better then Sasuke's is absolutely ludicrous.

I honestly don't know why everyone thinks Naruto is so far ahead of sasuke now, naruto couldn't beat tobi with the help of 3 kage level fighters....Do you honestly think Naruto is on some God level? Lmao, that must make tobi the strongest being to ever live then. cmon now...the proof is in the pudding.

Are you trolling? Do you realize that more than HALF of Konoha was incapacitated/dead/in hiding during the Pain invasion arc? And aside from Hinata (who wasn't that much help anyway) Naruto fought and defeated all six paths of pain by himself.

Besides that I think the point being illustrated in the manga is that Naruto wants to be surrounded by friends and allies which is why he accepts their help whenever they offer it which recently (as far back as Pain Invasion Arc) he hasn't REALLY needed it.

Naruto might not be on 'God' level (neither is Sasuke for that matter), but he has surpassed the 4th at least in terms of power (Minato mentioned this in one of the latest chapters iirc) and in terms of raw power he has most likely surpassed the others as well (Hashirama can only beat Madara for plot/fulfillment purposes).

And let me ask you then do you think in the end when it all boils down to Naruto vs Sasuke that your obvious favorite "the Sauce" will win? Even though the manga is called 'Naruto' and it is very obvious that the power of friendship/talk-no-jutsu will overcome any of Naruto's opposition? Lmao @ Sasuke being regarded as the titular character/most omnipotent force in the manga.


#givemeabreak

[Sasukemaru]

So if someone has a different opinion from you it's considered trolling? That's interesting....and that was sarcasm.

So half of Konoha was incapacitated/dead/hiding during that fight? Oooh yeah, I forgot Konoha was hit by a earthquake that day...For some reason I thought it was because Pain did all that right before Naruto even showed up, hmmmm.

So you think the author wants to illustrate Naruto wants his friends with him while he fights? That's cool, although entirely irrelevant in making the case Naruto has proven through his opponents he's stronger.

And Naruto hasn't NEEDED any help? Wow it looked like he NEEDED help against edo nagato, NEEDED help against madara, NEEDED help against obito, and NEEDED help against every other single opponent he has faced in this war.

Naruto surpassed the 4th in raw power? You don't say, you know who else has? Kisame, but I wouldn't imagine Kisame could beat Minato. Ninja fight with skill, it doesn't turn into "my chakra is bigger then yours RAWR!" This isn't dbz...

Why would I think sasuke would beat naruto in the end if they were to fight? Like you said the manga is called naruto, duh. When did I say sasuke was some unstoppable omnipotent force or w.e stupid thing you said? I merely stated his battle resume is more impressive then naruto's wwhich you have failed miserably at proving otherwise.


#givemeabreak

[Vajra]

Originally Posted by Sasukemaru

So if someone has a different opinion from you it's considered trolling? That's interesting....and that was sarcasm.

I don't know are you a troll? I guess time will tell.

So half of Konoha was incapacitated/dead/hiding during that fight? Oooh yeah, I forgot Konoha was hit by a earthquake that day...For some reason I thought it was because Pain did all that right before Naruto even showed up, hmmmm.

So you think the author wants to illustrate Naruto wants his friends with him while he fights? That's cool, although entirely irrelevant in making the case Naruto has proven through his opponents he's stronger.

They were in hiding/dead/incapacitated BECAUSE of Pain, I don't know how you would have missed that, since that's exactly what I was referring to. I'm guessing that you knew that's what I meant and saw it as an opportunity to get a cheap jab.

How is Sasuke's battle resume more impressive than Naruto? I'm guessing you must be going off of the fact that he hasn't had any help? So 3 guys: Orochimaru, Deidara, Itachi (even though he was dying anyway) & Danzo. So Sasuke won those fights all by himself...okay, and that makes him....what? Antisocial? Special?
You know that with the sharingan no matter who he faces is already at a severe disadvantage right (if anything that could illicit the POV that all Sasuke has fought were weaklings sans Itachi, while Naruto has fought some pretty big game)? So then it would not matter who was aiding him (Hebi/Taka, or Team 10) they would be rendered moot because of Sharingan-hax, something that Naruto can't do and has almost ALWAYS needed help from the get-go (the only exceptions I can think of are; Mizuki, Kabuto during the Sannin fight and Pain).

Naruto isn't the rogue anti-social loner ninja who fights for revenge and abandoned his village & friends so naturally he includes them in every battle he has -- again I don't see how it makes him any less impressive than Sasuke because in the end Naruto always comes out on top anyway.

Naruto surpassed the 4th in raw power? You don't say, you know who else has? Kisame, but I wouldn't imagine Kisame could beat Minato. Ninja fight with skill, it doesn't turn into "my chakra is bigger then yours RAWR!" This isn't dbz...

Naruto has matured the rasengan to a level that even Jiraiya hasn't achieved, that is what I meant not chakra. But it seems like you (and others) want to impose some sort of rigid power scaling system: One Piece fans will use bounties as a measure of power or 'impressiveness', and it seems like you are using the amount of help Sasuke/Naruto received in order to correlate their strength/prestige. They've both had very impressive battles, only I think Naruto has had to work harder for his victories (sage training, chakra training/fox) than Sasuke who seems/seemed to have gained a new power up at every twist and turn and was conveniently presented with 1 opponent at any given time to showcase these powers -- except for the summit kages and we know how Sasuke fared against the lot of them combined. But if we want to get into chakra; yes Naruto's strength is obviously enhanced because of the kyuubi's chakra, without that he wouldn't be where he is today.

And Naruto hasn't NEEDED any help? Wow it looked like he NEEDED help against edo nagato, NEEDED help against madara, NEEDED help against obito, and NEEDED help against every other single opponent he has faced in this war.

I think it's interesting that you mention how Naruto has 'NEEDED' so much help from everyone during this whole war despite the fact that anyone who isn't Naruto, Obito or Madara has been more or less useless and apparently they have become even more useless with the kyuubi's chakra...so I am not sure what to make of this statement...sure Killerbee was useful with his beast ball attacks and Guy & Kakashi got some good hits in but they were still working "in-sync" with Naruto; it's not like they jumped in and saved the day and we're here discussing Naruto post-manga. It was Lee who severed Madara's connection to the Juubi, while Naruto cut Obito's connection with a rasenshuriken (so 1 effectively helpful person during the war), something Naruto could have done himself using shadow clones.

[rd1979]

Concerning the topic of this thread......was that about the week before last where there was no chapter, or will there be no chapter again this week?

[Vajra]

Originally Posted by rd1979

Concerning the topic of this thread......was that about the week before last where there was no chapter, or will there be no chapter again this week?

There was no chapter last week due to it being Golden Week. There should be spoilers as early as midnight tonight.

[Kyero Fox]

Phirk, chill bro XP Sause fans will always be Sause fans.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by rd1979

Concerning the topic of this thread......was that about the week before last where there was no chapter, or will there be no chapter again this week?

Originally Posted by Phirk

There was no chapter last week due to it being Golden Week. There should be spoilers as early as midnight tonight.

There is no chapter this week. Expect spoilers next Tuesday (though they could be as early as Sunday).

[Sasukemaru]

I've been a member for almost 2 years, I think time has spoken.

EXACTLY Pain had already fought all of Konoha by the time Naruto showed up with his toad army, with sage reserves prepared, with inside information on all of Pains jutsu, and you know what...He still lost. If it wasn't for Hinata (who you called worthless) he would have been captured right then and there. Thank you for proving my point.

When did I say I measure powerlevels in Naruto? It was obvious I was laughing at you for doing that....Who cares if he has a stronger rasengan? That's like saying Mifune is better then Madara because one has a sword and one has a kunai. Raw power in Naruto does not equate to being a better fighter.

Actually, numerous ppl have won their one on one battles, so I really don't know how everyone besides a couple have been useless? So okay.

Don't really know what to make of your sharingan comment, seeing how most don't have a sharingan and manage to fight without help just fine.

Naruto's most impressive victory where it was one on one, was against gaara in part 1. Even then sasuke was there, so im giving him the benefit of the doubt for doing 90 percent of the work.

But if you think beating a 12 year old gaara is more impressive then beating deidara, who naruto failed to beat with kakashi mind you...or beating danzo, or beating a sick oro/itachi, or even fighting all 5 kage by yourself and living to tell about it....Then well, we have a huge difference in opinion.

[Hunter]

Orochimaru was very weakened which is the reason Sasuke could beat him as he admitted himself, Itachi staged his fight as an elaborate form of suicide, Danzou had Shisui eye on cooldown until the end, Killer Bee bested Sasuke even with Taka's help, Kabuto also required a team fight with Edo-Itachi although Sasuke was also prevented to use his full power in this combat and the Kage summit ended very badly for him. Out of all his fights in part 2 the only somewhat "fair" ones were against the Raikage although it was interrupted by others and had a little help form the subordinates of both sides and Deidara where Suigetsu had to summon Manda to him at the end.
No man is an island in this manga, virtually no character fought without some particular set of circumstances and/or ally that skew things one way or another regardless of his own skills.

Originally Posted by Phirk

[...] only I think Naruto has had to work harder for his victories (sage training, chakra training/fox) than Sasuke who seems/seemed to have gained a new power up at every twist and turn and was conveniently presented with 1 opponent at any given time to showcase these powers[...]

Yeah that's an argument as old as the Sasuke vs Naruto debat but it's one so long dead that it decomposed to nothing long ago. Naruto has received so many powerups over the last few arcs that people have a hard time keeping up with what he can do and his hard work (which used to be a week of magical training every now and then when all is said and done) has morphed into being the child of prophecy who call forth new powers out of thin air whenever he requires it.

[james0246]

^In other words, everyone sucks; get over it. .

I'm just waiting to see what an actual EMS can do and what a full-Kyuubi can accomplish. Beyond that...well, there's not much beyond that.

[Hunter]

Well Madara's gargantuan Susanoo is already a testament of the EMS power but I guess you can always do more. Like a colossal Susanoo made of Enton flame wielding a stabilized Kirin-made pillar of lightning as a sword.
Since Naruto's next hard work gift from his father is probably the other half of the Kyubi chakra (which wasn't released like Oro's arms because *cough cough*) I'm afraid an even bigger Rasengan of friendship is coming soon.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Well Madara's gargantuan Susanoo is already a testament of the EMS power but I guess you can always do more. Like a colossal Susanoo made of Enton flame wielding a stabilized Kirin-made pillar of lightning as a sword.

Honestly, that sounds like fun. I'd pay (the current rate) to see that.

Originally Posted by Hunter

Since Naruto's next hard work gift from his father is probably the other half of the Kyubi chakra (which wasn't released like Oro's arms because *cough cough*) I'm afraid an even bigger Rasengan of friendship is coming soon.

Well, we already had a Rasengan that was the size of a planet (well, it was really big at least...), plus one that mimicked a solar system, and the regular Rasenshuriken already looks like a galaxy, so I guess that all that is left is a Rasengan the shape of God, or Naruto actually becomes a Rasengan himself. Then again, maybe he'll just a get a Buddhist Palm technique...