Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 06 Discussion / Poll

[Sorrow-K]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

True, but that does not mean that animation studios should take it upon themselves to "improve" upon it. More often than not, they make it worse.

But what about those few times when someone make an adaptation that's better than the source?

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Not every adaptation that makes changes is bad, but many people will see it as bad simply because its been changed.

This is why I fully agree with animation studios making original works, and why I dislike the concept of adaptations in general.

So just because a few fanboys get butthurt, animation studios shouldn't try to be creative with a given source material?

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

It really can't be a "cohesive and well executed story" without anything resembling an ending.

Look, I don't disagree with you about this, one of my pet hates is anime based on ongoing manga that have really flimsy non-endings. But that doesn't change my point that it's more than possible for an adaptation to be better than the source material.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

As I have said, I disagree. I think what one should be criticizing is the source itself? You have problems with the material? Take the blame where it belongs.

How can I if I haven't read that part of the source material? You can't quell criticism of an adaptation just because someone hasn't read/seen the source material.

Seems to me that you're more concerned about the backlash towards studios taking liberties with a source material than you are about the liberties themselves. As far as I'm concerned, fear of backlash shouldn't influence studios. If it did, studios would become apprehensive about taking risks, which would result in more works that are formulaic and uncreative. And there's enough of that in anime as it is. Look, I don't disagree that anime studios should be looking more towards original concepts rather than adaptations, but that doesn't mean that they can't make good anime that aren't completely loyal to a given source material. And it discounts the examples, as few as they are, of really good anime that do take liberties with a given source. Just look at Gankutsuou. Sure, it has its detractors among fervent loyalists to Dumas' original work, and I'd never suggest that it's better than the original. But, as an anime, it's a very creative interpretation of a classic piece of literature. I'd almost argue it's among the best anime series of the decade so far. My-HiME is another example of an anime that's very different from its manga source, and most people accept that the anime is superior. Gungrave and Idolm@ster Xenoglossia are so different from the games they were based on, you almost couldn't call them adaptations. And then there are probably tonnes of examples of anime that are much closer adaptations that occasionally handle certain scenes better than the original or rearrange events to be a little more seamless or cohesive or explore a character that wasn't developed in the original, etc, etc. I won't make any lists because I don't explore sources often enough to come up with many examples off-hand, but it occasionally happens.

As far as I'm concerned, let studios make more risks. If they don't come off, that's one thing, but if it works, I'll applaud, and if the vocal source fans can't appreciate a well executed piece of creativity and bitch until their heads fall off, so be it.

[Ascaloth]

Episode 6 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 6

This is probably the sole article out of my schedule of three that would be anywhere near on time this week, so enjoy.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

My-HiME is another example of an anime that's very different from its manga source, and most people accept that the anime is superior.

Could that be because the anime came first? Come on, I don't even like the show and I know that much.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that if an adaptation could conceivably be made "better" than it's source with a minimum of risk (risk meaning the chance of making it worse as opposed to the chance of annoying purist fans of the original) do it. In any case at any time. There's no excuse to let something like a belief in verbatim adaptation or the possibility of upsetting purists interfere with creativity and making your work all that it could be. Well....except for money. The real point is though that nothing interesting, creative, fresh and/or ground breaking ever got made by just standing around copying directly from a source and playing it safe. You might break even, but you'll never make any progress as an artist.

So yeah, we're in agreement again.

As for what Kaisos Erranon mentions about people bitching because they believe the source material of something got "raped", if people are going to be that way then I say don't give their words much merit. Some people these days seem to have this sense of entitlement in demanding that every show follow the course they want without considering any sort of alternative to said course as "good". If it doesn't follow their vision then suddenly it's complaining city and then we get the "T" word. After going through a similar experience last season I sort of just gave up on worrying about this sort of thing. Believe me I sympathize but these types of people who just like to complain and criticize without reason or consideration are not worth worrying about. I will say though that for criticism what Clannad is getting is tame compared to some other shows I've seen.

Anyway, called this one as a mini-arc last week and no surprise that it's merely a two parter. This is the 1/4 mark and I have to say though that things are moving rather slowly. It's not so much After Story yet as much as it's Other Stories so hopefully before long (and this is urgent in my case) we can maybe start seeing a little more progress and character development from the primary cast yes? Or does it not work that way?

Again I find myself only being able to say that these stories are alright, but nothing exactly earth shattering or irresistable beyond the obvious attempts at moe appeal and touchy feely stuff. I don't know what it is, I guess I'm too macho or have no soul but it's just not working. I find myself wanting something more from the story and characters, a certain Je ne sais quoi if you will. And with things getting so tight at work and my spare time constantly shrinking by the week if something doesn't happen soon to provide an inescapable hook I'm probably going to have to put this on an indefinite hold.

Or perhaps, despite every attempt I've made to try and approach Clannad these past....what is it, 29 episodes, I might just have to admit that aside from a handful of arcs and a couple of characters that it's really just not my thing after all and to move on.

[Littm]

Amazing episode. Touching. But they changed the scenario, of course and the viewers who don't know the game can't obviously say who Shima really is. Of course, from some last shots viewers can guess, but it isn't opened so good enough and no details about some things that happened in the past. And some moments so... cut. No real Misae's arc ending as in Tomoyo's arc, what a pitty. But it was so good. And some very nice showed jokes. "This is a trap", yeah.

Anyway, I like Misae and this episode and I'll give it perfect 10. This is the first episode in AS with this rating for me. So, next is Yukine. Yay, good news !

[Nerroth]

I knew it - Misae does think a cat is fine, too!

Spoiler for Mi-aow:

And Misae herself, especially in that kimono, is spec-tacular...

Spoiler for Kimono:

[Mega-Japan]

Just watched the episode and liked it a lot. Even though I don't like Misae, this episode made me a get a better view at her. On the other hand, I really liked Shima, so much courage yet so pure hearted, a total ownage of a character, in a way, lol. Plus he looked really cute both as a girl and as a neko xD.

[Eczema]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention; I thought they would delve more into Misae as student council president. For example, the one day where she managed to achieve perfect attendance - how and why? How did she get elected to president? Why did she even want to be president? It doesn't really matter, but I thought since they brought in Tomoyo and mentioned it, I thought it would be explored more in this episode, but instead, the whole issue is discarded. It's probably because there's not enough eps to dedicate to Misae, and that's a shame.

[Klashikari]

That part wasn't in the original material, so trying to expand Misae might generate some inconsistencies if done carelessly.
Also, pretty much what Misae says, it is "nothing special", so it is up to the watchers to determine how she did that, based on her temper, personality, and... means (hell I think many people would be scared to death with such pro wrestler )

Misae just works like other Clannad char: her usual appearance and characterization should give you enough clues to how it has happened.
And yes, they don't have the luxury to explore more of non main characters anyway. After all, we aren't even in the After Story segment, so they are really going overboard.

[Kamesan]

I like Misae but I thought the last couple of episodes were extremely corny. I'm hoping that Clannad gets itself back on track because I've been disappointed with the 2nd season so far.

[Vegard Aune]

Originally Posted by Kamesan

I like Misae but I thought the last couple of episodes were extremely corny. I'm hoping that Clannad gets itself back on track because I've been disappointed with the 2nd season so far.

It will probably get better once the real After Story starts... Which I'm guessing will happen at episode 13. No logical reason for that assumption, I'm just guessing that it'll happen at the half-way-point of the series.

[yjs]

Hmm, the relationship between Shima and Misae was a little contrived. In addition, very little background was given for the whole Shima business which left me a little confused, and subsequently the supposed bond between Shima and Misae appeared somewhat unbelievable. Perhaps it is assumed that the viewer has finished the visual novel? So far After Story has lacked the polish of the first season- not just in script either. A good example would be the use of the depressing music in the beginning of this episode- I didn't feel it was appropriate and it went for AGES.

It's probably got to do with the source material, but I'm hoping the Kyoani polish will come back soon.

[LeaD36]

Misae went skyhigh in just 2 eps on my fav clannad char list, and i was right almost right about shima, he was the cat to begin with ;/

Nuff background was given yjs for the basic part, oh and it seems like shima´s the robot to me ;[

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

CONFIRMED SUPERNATURAL THINGS IN CLANNAD TV TO DATE:

1) Fuuko
2) Shima

Hmmrrr, overdone, is it?

And no, the Illusionary World doesn't count, as it hasn't yet been revealed what it is yet, and whether or not it's actually a story.

About everyone in CLANNAD are super natural...
3) Kyou (killer dictionary)
4) Kotomi (killer violin)
5) Ryou (killer fortune telling)
6) Kyou (powerful killer dictionary)
8) Tomoyo (powerful kick)
9) Yukine (super natural gang-gathering capability)
10) Kyou (super natural killer-dictionary)
11) Sunohara Yohei (incredibly stupid)
12) Sunohara Mei (incredibly mature)
13) Kyou (incredibly killer dictionary)
14) Sanae (magical young appearance)
15) Sane's bread (magical killer bread)
16) Kyou (magical killer dictionary)
17) Sane's bread (magical killer bread)

If you don't get my joke, move on...

[Reckoner]

Disappointing arc, I'm happy to move on.

Nothing against Misae as a character, but the whole idea that the boy is a cat kills any emotional impact this arc could have possibly had for me.

[wtfftw]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

About everyone in CLANNAD are super natural...
3) Kyou (killer dictionary)
4) Kotomi (killer violin)
5) Ryou (killer fortune telling)
6) Kyou (powerful killer dictionary)
8) Tomoyo (powerful kick)
9) Yukine (super natural gang-gathering capability)
10) Kyou (super natural killer-dictionary)
11) Sunohara Yohei (incredibly stupid)
12) Sunohara Mei (incredibly mature)
13) Kyou (incredibly killer dictionary)
14) Sanae (magical young appearance)
15) Sane's bread (magical killer bread)
16) Kyou (magical killer dictionary)
17) Sane's bread (magical killer bread)

If you don't get my joke, move on...

i loled^^

I have no idea what those 2 guys are talking about or the whole game deal. This ep was good period. If you dont like it cuz its not like the game then better to just play the game i would say.

Plus you need to understand that if you play games or read manga an anime is gonna feel totally different not knowing how to take it just shows how you are.

Seriously its like the author isnt allowed to do what he feels would be best for the story. Money budget time constraints i doubt most of us here actually helped in contributing to buy the licensed product.

I mean people whine about transformers the movie when it was to come out but it was great. So was this ep, I'd care less about the game

[Mecha_Trueno]

Originally Posted by iamandragon

About everyone in CLANNAD are super natural...
3) Kyou (killer dictionary)
4) Kotomi (killer violin)
5) Ryou (killer fortune telling)
6) Kyou (powerful killer dictionary)
8) Tomoyo (powerful kick)
9) Yukine (super natural gang-gathering capability)
10) Kyou (super natural killer-dictionary)
11) Sunohara Yohei (incredibly stupid)
12) Sunohara Mei (incredibly mature)
13) Kyou (incredibly killer dictionary)
14) Sanae (magical young appearance)
15) Sane's bread (magical killer bread)
16) Kyou (magical killer dictionary)
17) Sane's bread (magical killer bread)

If you don't get my joke, move on...

lol
but you left out:
18) Sunohara (unlimited HP, impossible to kill)

[MercFH]

Epic trap
thats all that needs to be said

[SkoolRumble4Ya]

Man this episode is so touching. Somewhat of an happy ending for Misae.

[MercFH]

Originally Posted by SkoolRumble4Ya

Man this episode is so touching. Somewhat of an happy ending for Misae.

Agreed. I mean.....i def. Q_Q'd a little bit towards the end. It didnt really explain "WHY" he had to leave....and why he became a

Spoiler:

cat

and whats with the lady in the wheelchair...is that like..his future or what he was at in the past or wtf? i dunno!!

[iamandragon]

Originally Posted by Mecha_Trueno

lol
but you left out:
18) Sunohara (unlimited HP, impossible to kill)

I would have, but after playing the PS2 version I've had enough of Sunohara...

I love CLANNAD the anime, even if it is different from the game--KyoAni did a really great job doing the story lines, and not to miss out important things.