(CR) Dr. Stone

[Chosen_Hero]

Gotta love how some people seem to have a problem with the obvious pseudo science of this show, yet they turn around and praise and even defend other shows for their unrealistic stuff (for example, your toes somehow being a sign of getting super powers, fucklights (whatever the hell that is) somehow representing your soul, magical flesh mechs that only a certain race is able to use, etc.).

[Random14]

This isn't the typical shonen series (or one of the way too many isekai series), so its a bit hard to describe this series. With a third character, I'd hope reception would improve. Less Taiju is a positive for me.

Despite how he sounds, Senku is an idealist at heart. And now he's clashing with Tsukasa, who I'd call a cynic. His discontent with the old world is understandable, though of course not sure he could build a better civilization. Tsukasa is unstoppable but without something like soap not sure how long even he could last.

Well, they needed his brute strength (since apparently Taiju's so nice he's never even hit someone in self-defense) but looks like Senku's being extra careful now.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

The fight was cool but it complete felt like something you would see aimed towards a young audience. It's like the first episode tried being realistic while the second one went full shonen jump with jokes and animal fights. I mean, even the refusal to revive the girl felt like the writer didn't want to include her in the story

I thought they were going to do a "We need something else, something more special to revive her" route, but the reason turned out to be even worse. Then again, if the petrifaction (somehow) does nothing to your body or mind, then maybe it would be worse for her to be seen completely naked than for her to remain in stone for a while longer.

[Wandering Soul]

While I understand how Tsukasa came to the opinion that he did, I feel like Senku is a smart enough guy to try and explain to him all the holes in that plan and why it just wouldn't work.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I thought they were going to do a "We need something else, something more special to revive her" route, but the reason turned out to be even worse. Then again, if the petrifaction (somehow) does nothing to your body or mind, then maybe it would be worse for her to be seen completely naked than for her to remain in stone for a while longer.

I think them needing something "special to revive her" would actually be really lame.

They'll probably decide that it's better to revive more useful people first. When they are in a much better position they can start reviving less immediately useful people.

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

While I understand how Tsukasa came to the opinion that he did, I feel like Senku is a smart enough guy to try and explain to him all the holes in that plan and why it just wouldn't work.

On a short term basis, not reviving adults is probably a good idea since adults would want to take charge. They wouldn't be willing to listen to kids.

On a long term basis, deciding who to revive and who not based on arbitrary criteria wouldn't work at all.

Plus, most of the kids they revive would have parents. They would obviously want to revive them.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't think there's anything really true about what he said.

For one thing, even animals have concepts of territory, so even his all natural world will have people harping about it. For another, the people most at risk of fighting over territory ownership aren't the old guys whose property records were completely wiped millenia ago. It's the young, physically fit guys who'll carve niches for themselves in this new world.

I think he's a lot more into the hunter-gatherer lifestyle than the agricultural one.

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Even in a hunter-gatherer society, this would still be an issue. And that sort of society would eventually fall to an agricultural one, just like it did before in history.

Hunting and gathering is good for a while, but it has its setbacks. It's why humans eventually shifted to growing their crops and having domesticated animals.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Gotta love how some people seem to have a problem with the obvious pseudo science of this show, yet they turn around and praise and even defend other shows for their unrealistic stuff (for example, your toes somehow being a sign of getting super powers, fucklights (whatever the hell that is) somehow representing your soul, magical flesh mechs that only a certain race is able to use, etc.).

I think I mentioned this is my review of the first episode, but what Dr. Stone did to try to set itself apart from other shounen, fantastical series is what became an issue with many of us.
Unlike superhero shows, fantasy series, or even much of sci-fi, is that this series decided to base its whole schtick around the idea of "We are doing this because of SCIENCE!"
Once you decide to make that the foundation of your show, the audience's leniency for pseudoscience, technobabble, and all around BS, become significantly lower. Especially for those of us nerds who also live and breath science and technology every day.

I expect more care to go into a show touting itself as being all about science, than a show that has superheroes running around and only briefly mentions science in passing.

Also, the suspension of disbelief can take you a long way IF the plot and characters are engaging enough. If not, you begin to get distracted by all the things that are wrong in the show and you start poking holes in everything. I remember distinctly being so bored in Iron Man 2, that when the got to the point of Tony Stark trying to make his own element (in his basement!) I just started making a list of all the science that's done wrong and how nothing would work out that way and I just made myself mad.

Long story short, I think that's what happened here. Many of the people who are complaining are doing so because the show is specifically sold on its science element. Also, the characters and plot are honestly not engaging enough yet either, and so they are starting to pick apart what is there.

Originally Posted by moridin84

On a short term basis, not reviving adults is probably a good idea since adults would want to take charge. They wouldn't be willing to listen to kids.

On a long term basis, deciding who to revive and who not based on arbitrary criteria wouldn't work at all.

Plus, most of the kids they revive would have parents. They would obviously want to revive them.

I think not listening to the kids can be a good thing is some respects. Teens might have fresh ideas, but they are also, inexperienced, hormonal, idiots. Sure, we have one smart guy, one waste of space, and one superhuman, but that's not most of your teen population.

I teach teens for a living, most of my students would have died after about a few days to a week in this kind of situation. I would certainly not trust them to revive civilization.

Honestly, anything the teen population can do, most of the adults can probably do as well, if not faster. They are more experienced, they have trained in certain trades and occupations for years. It would honestly help if we didn't have one smart guy, but several to help with the load. How about trained engineers, construction workers, welders, blacksmiths, farmers, shipbuilders? Adults who can do this stuff because they know it like the back of their own hands and not just have to kids waste time with trial and error?

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by moridin84

I think them needing something "special to revive her" would actually be really lame.

I think we're a bit too late to worry about that.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think I mentioned this is my review of the first episode, but what Dr. Stone did to try to set itself apart from other shounen, fantastical series is what became an issue with many of us.
Unlike superhero shows, fantasy series, or even much of sci-fi, is that this series decided to base its whole schtick around the idea of "We are doing this because of SCIENCE!"
Once you decide to make that the foundation of your show, the audience's leniency for pseudoscience, technobabble, and all around BS, become significantly lower. Especially for those of us nerds who also live and breath science and technology every day.

I expect more care to go into a show touting itself as being all about science, than a show that has superheroes running around and only briefly mentions science in passing.

Also, the suspension of disbelief can take you a long way IF the plot and characters are engaging enough. If not, you begin to get distracted by all the things that are wrong in the show and you start poking holes in everything. I remember distinctly being so bored in Iron Man 2, that when the got to the point of Tony Stark trying to make his own element (in his basement!) I just started making a list of all the science that's done wrong and how nothing would work out that way and I just made myself mad.

Long story short, I think that's what happened here. Many of the people who are complaining are doing so because the show is specifically sold on its science element. Also, the characters and plot are honestly not engaging enough yet either, and so they are starting to pick apart what is there.

Pretty sure that this series proved how fantastical it was the moment a magical green light turned every han into a statue. Then it decided doubled down by having an MC that can make any historical invention without any sort of formal training (as far as we know) and then it decided to introduce a guy that can not only one punch a Lion to death, but he can also catch birds mid flight with his bare hands and punch rocks to pieces.

I gave those examples because just like this series they also use "science" to try and explain their gimmicks. Just because the MC said that he will use science doesn't mean or guarantee that the science in the show will be 100% realistic or fully explained, to expect that is asinine. Expecting this series to properly use and fully explain the science is like expecting real world fire fighting from Enen no Shouboutai, especially after it has shown you how fantastical it really is.

Also, why does the show using pseudo science have to bother you at all in the first place? I mean, I graduated with a bachelor's in criminal justice and I can properly enjoy Cop Craft even though it is a series that is trying to portray police work within a fantastical setting. Heck, I even enjoy Detective Conan even though it makes me cringe anytime someone just casually walks into a crime scene and messes with something in it while trying to "solve the mystery" and that is AFTER they try to preserve it.

Another example would be Shokigeki no Souma, that series is about cooking and took it pretty seriously (at least in the first season) and yet it also had some pretty unrealistic aspects to it from the very beginning. I am sure some here (or someone you know) is a chef and yet they still enjoyed/enjoy that series even with all the crazy aspects of it. So why should someone that "knows science" lose their suspension of disbelief with a show that isn't that realistic to begin with?

(Reads Iron Man example) .... Because making a fully functional pocket sized core that can't be reverse engineered in a lab by sicentists in a cave along with a full suit of working armor that they somehow kept a secret from the terrorists was realistic, right? If the misuse of science really bothered you that much and broke your immersion than you should have realistically been appalled since the first movie.

But apparently you seemed to have enjoyed the first one to not mention it instead, so what changed? (Not arguing that the second Iron Man movie is bad)

Look, let's say it like it is, the people complaining about the science not being explained or at times properly used are people who built a head canon of actual real world processes being fully explained to the tiniest detail in a inherently fantastical shounen manga (this IS a Shounen Jump manga btw, so there should have been your first clue). Also, those people have to admit that their hubris towards their own knowledge of science had a lot to do in creating a bias the moment they heard the term science being used and were ready to rip apart every single misuse of it they came across while watching (Well, at least that's how I see it).

Hey, if you can't get into the show for a certain reason (as nitpciky as it might be) than that is fair, it tends to happen and it is your own personal take on the show and if it broke your personal immersion that it did just that. But, from my personal point of view, your (and others) argument about the shows misuse of science is flimsy at best, especially when you are willing to accept and praise other series that do the same with the same or different fields and terms.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Pretty sure that this series proved how fantastical it was the moment a magical green light turned every han into a statue. Then it decided doubled down by having an MC that can make any historical invention without any sort of formal training (as far as we know) and then it decided to introduce a guy that can not only one punch a Lion to death, but he can also catch birds mid flight with his bare hands and punch rocks to pieces.

I gave those examples because just like this series they also use "science" to try and explain their gimmicks. Just because the MC said that he will use science doesn't mean or guarantee that the science in the show will be 100% realistic or fully explained, to expect that is asinine. Expecting this series to properly use and fully explain the science is like expecting real world fire fighting from Enen no Shouboutai, especially after it has shown you how fantastical it really is.

Rolfmao. Feeling edgy today? Cut the crap before you get it flung back at you.

The MC is flat out declared at the end of Episode 1 that he would "beat fantasy with science". He's been consistent in declaring that there is nothing science can't explain. The entire premise of the story is about surviving through science. The story spends half it's time talking up the virtues of science. That's what the author is clearly trying to sell it as through the main character. The fact that it then uses blatantly fantastical plot devices doesn't change that in any way: It just undermines the message presented.

Fire Force isn't trying to sell itself as an accurate depiction of fire fighting. Does Fire Force have an MC declaring that he will put out fires purely through true-to-life fire fighting methods? Does Fire Force have an MC that constantly talks out the virtues of true-to-life fire fighting methods? Does Fire Force spend half its time talking about the way true-to-life fire fighting methods work? No, it doesn't.

Other series that use science to explain their gimmicks are convincing or unconvincing to various degrees depending on the way they do it. I'm not really that bothered about the scientific fidelity either, but to pretend Dr Stone is painting its portrayal of science no differently than other shows is what I'd call asinine.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think not listening to the kids can be a good thing is some respects. Teens might have fresh ideas, but they are also, inexperienced, hormonal, idiots. Sure, we have one smart guy, one waste of space, and one superhuman, but that's not most of your teen population.

I teach teens for a living, most of my students would have died after about a few days to a week in this kind of situation. I would certainly not trust them to revive civilization.

And that's the problem I mentioned.

Another teenager will listen to other teenagers opinion based on merit or failing that just go along with the designated leader.

An adult will believe his opinions have more value than kids and will insist on being the leader. The kids will refuse obviously.

It will destroy the group cohesion.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

This is pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Even in a hunter-gatherer society, this would still be an issue. And that sort of society would eventually fall to an agricultural one, just like it did before in history.

Hunting and gathering is good for a while, but it has its setbacks. It's why humans eventually shifted to growing their crops and having domesticated animals.

But it might take a while. Or not. Depending on how willing to do backbreaking labor the revives are, in exchange for a steadier food supply. Or how fast they run out of land for hunting and gathering.

I think not listening to the kids can be a good thing is some respects. Teens might have fresh ideas, but they are also, inexperienced, hormonal, idiots. Sure, we have one smart guy, one waste of space, and one superhuman, but that's not most of your teen population.

I teach teens for a living, most of my students would have died after about a few days to a week in this kind of situation. I would certainly not trust them to revive civilization.

You could say the same about most adults.

Honestly, anything the teen population can do, most of the adults can probably do as well, if not faster. They are more experienced, they have trained in certain trades and occupations for years. It would honestly help if we didn't have one smart guy, but several to help with the load. How about trained engineers, construction workers, welders, blacksmiths, farmers, shipbuilders? Adults who can do this stuff because they know it like the back of their own hands and not just have to kids waste time with trial and error?

Useless, all of them. For the most part. What you need are hobbyists who studied old techniques, not people who need modern tools to do their jobs.

The major problem is that any adult they revive is almost guaranteed to not be as smart as Senku (because really, who is?), but will nevertheless insist of taking leadership by virtue of age.

For that matter, they lucked out (temporarily, at least) with Tsukasa, who's smart enough to respect Senku instead of using his muscles to try and be a little stone age tyrant.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Honestly, anything the teen population can do, most of the adults can probably do as well, if not faster. They are more experienced, they have trained in certain trades and occupations for years. It would honestly help if we didn't have one smart guy, but several to help with the load. How about trained engineers, construction workers, welders, blacksmiths, farmers, shipbuilders? Adults who can do this stuff because they know it like the back of their own hands and not just have to kids waste time with trial and error?

Well the main issue would be that we allways run into the issue of making the tools to make the tools, and finding people in about 20km radius where they can get on food in couple days, who know how to do things with literaly stone age tools or without them.

BUT, this is a Shounen Jump nonsense so anything that doesn't contribute to Shounen Jump nonsense is ignored and instead whenever we need to find an expert it's OBVIOUSLY going to be some teen who half a decade ago only learned not to eat crayons.

Originally Posted by moridin84

And that's the problem I mentioned.

Another teenager will listen to other teenagers opinion based on merit or failing that just go along with the designated leader.

An adult will believe his opinions have more value than kids and will insist on being the leader. The kids will refuse obviously.

It will destroy the group cohesion.

Pretty much the reason why over history we only tended to use teens for CANNON FODDER. It's magnificent at teaching the brats you can't change the world with your chest hair.

[James Rye]

Great, they woke up the perfect fighter and hunter and ofc said perfect stone age person has no interest in bringing back the old ages where any punk with a gun could stop him. In a world described by Tsukasa, he would be the King alone due his strength and hunting ability. Like this guy stopped a boar horde, how is any human supposed to stop him! With a crossbow maybe like Senku is building. He is already preparing for the falling out between him and Tsukasa.

[Cao Ni Ma]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

While I understand how Tsukasa came to the opinion that he did, I feel like Senku is a smart enough guy to try and explain to him all the holes in that plan and why it just wouldn't work.

Senku is genre savvy enough to understand that Tsukasa is a shonen villain antagonist and no amount of talking is going to get him to realize his plan is incredibly dumb. You gotta beat him up, and since your other dude cant fight back your only options are probably that crossbow or maybe a bomb

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Petrification and everything related is magic, or might as well be.

The rest is McGuyver science: based on true phenomenons, but works a lot better than it has any right to.

Then how do you explain a teenager who can singlehandedly kill a buff male lion by OPM-ing it? Unless Tsukasa's power has anything to do with the petrification-magic, this anime might as well takes place in My Hero Academia world .

So yeah, after witnessing what Tsukasa can do, I will no longer complain about realism in this show because Tsukasa has singhandedly killed it, just like what he did to that lion .

But I'm still entertained, so I'll keep watching. Also, Senku needs to make some drugs from those mushrooms or something to calm Taiju down once in a while. That constant screaming is annoying. Previously, I kinda compared him to Akihiro "Space Guts" Altland from IBO. Well, I take that back. Akihiro would have no trouble fighting & hunting, and he knows when to keep his mouth shut. Even Shino is not as noisy as Taiju.

Also, it's nice to hear that Senku looks up to Doraemon .

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Then how do you explain a teenager who can singlehandedly kill a buff male lion by OPM-ing it? Unless Tsukasa's power has anything to do with the petrification-magic, this anime might as well takes place in My Hero Academia world .

I don't. I (rather obviously, I thought) was talking about Senku's use of science to advance the plot, not the characters' physical abilities.

And no, Dr Stone isn't meant to be realistic, and I don't have the faintest idea what could have given you that idea.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

Pretty much the reason why over history we only tended to use teens for CANNON FODDER. It's magnificent at teaching the brats you can't change the world with your chest hair.

I think you misunderstood me somehow.

Right now Senku is the leader. He's really calm, smart and knowledgeable. It's very unlikely that another person more suited to be a leader will appear. Despite that, if they revive an adult, that person will likely try to take charge. Primarily because he's an adult and they are kids.

Cage of Eden dealt with this to a degree actually.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't. I (rather obviously, I thought) was talking about Senku's use of science to advance the plot, not the characters' physical abilities.

And no, Dr Stone isn't meant to be realistic, and I don't have the faintest idea what could have given you that idea.

Like you said, the petrification is magic, but everything else is supposed to resemble our world at least closely including its science (anime-hair notwithstanding). We are supposed to recognize these humans (including Tsukasa) as "mere human teenagers", right? Well, there's nothing remotely "mere human teenager" about Tsukasa killing an adult lion with one punch and sent it flying. What is he? A rejected character from JoJo?

[moridin84]

This is interesting. It seems like they are planning to "fake" some of the science so kids don't try to copy it.

Surprisingly--given it's the main focus of the story--one of the biggest changes between the manga and anime versions of Dr. Stone is the scientific lore. Honda stresses the changes won't impact the story; they're primarily to ensure the safety of the younger viewers who might check out the anime. "Politically, there's nothing really changing in Dr. Stone, but [the anime] is slightly careful about the scientific aspects because some of the stuff [Taiju and Senku] are doing is pretty dangerous. So the studio has to tweak things a little, tone the science down, or change scenes slightly so that people don't try [Taiju and Senku's] experiments at home and get hurt."

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sh.../1100-6468278/

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

^ Instead of "faking" the science in the show, wouldn't it be better if they actually present it factually with more details and clearer explanations of the danger so that kids wouldn't want to try it in the first place? Or have some live-action bonus/omake/infomercial at the end of each episode with guys talking about the science in the said episode like Hikaru no Go anime did in the past.