Higurashi (1st season) Character Discussion / Poll

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by MrZombie

It's not so much that she's not allowed to have a crush on someone she just met. She goes from having a crush on him to full on obsession in 2.5 seconds.

Once again her logic falls apart. She likes Satsoshi and when she hears that it's because of his sister that he's falling apart, she decides it's a good idea to beat the hell out of his sister to teach her a lesson. I wonder why I can't believe this was a good idea?

yeah, I'll reply to this as this is something the anime lacked: Character Development.

Shion was in Okinomiya and been in contact with Satoshi for about 2~3 months period before she lost contact with him for a month then decided to go to the school exchanging identities with Mion.

Shion at that time only had Kasai, Mion, and her Uncle Yoshiro to talk to. So, Satoshi was the first friend she had outside of family (along Dr. Irie and the rest of his baseball team - but they only matter to her b/c Satoshi was on the team).

Just for time refference, Keiichi only moved into town less than 2 months before the events happen in Hinamizawa in 1983.

The other thing Meakashi Hen fails to explain is Shion's Curse Theory which was her logic behind her vigilante killings. Rika wasn't going to be killed unless something happend to Keiichi. Unfortunately, Rika attacked Shion first.

As for Satoko, again the anime skipped this, but in Tsumihoroboshi Hen, Rena confronts Satoko blaming her for the same reasons Shion did concerning Satoshi's disappearance (although obviously Shion takes it more personally). Satoko does accepts and acknowledges that as her sin (evident in Tatarigoroshi, Tsumihoroboshi, and Minagoroshi).

[MrZombie]

Okay, okay, I guess I'm starting to understand Shions reasoning a little more. However, it still doesn't improve my opnion of her as a character.

There's something still bothering me though about Shion impersonating Mion. What would she have done if Keichi and Rena had wanted to see the oni tatoo? Why once she had Keichi in the undergroud chambers did the ruse continue? She had planned on killing him right? So, what was the point in that?

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by MrZombie

There's something still bothering me though about Shion impersonating Mion. What would she have done if Keichi and Rena had wanted to see the oni tatoo? Why once she had Keichi in the undergroud chambers did the ruse continue? She had planned on killing him right? So, what was the point in that?

What would she done if Keiichi and Rena asked to see the Tattoo?
She would have given up and turned herself in as they would have won the "game."

Shion wanted to be caught. At this pt after killing Satoko, she wanted for someone to tell her she was wrong and evil. The monologue here IMO was the best scene in Meakashi.

The "Game"
Shion wanted to be caught. This was a "Game" between herself and the demon inside her. Shion wanted someone to confront her as Shion, and blame her for all the wrongs she commited with no sympathy (as she herself believed she shouldn't get any for this was all her mistake). She then would have been saved from her own insanity. Otherwise if no one would step up to the plate and confront her as Shion and tell her she was wrong, she wanted to go out and do something so terrible that no one would will have any doubt or any sympahty that she is nothing but a horrid sadistic demonic monster. She did her best to hold back this demon clueing Keiichi and Rena with blantet lies which "Mion" would never say. However, in the end, the Demon won. Keiichi never figured it out. She stops short of killing him b/c Keiichi told her the truth. She wasn't "Mion," she was a Demon.

All in all, Shion realized she needed help and was crying out for it during the entire final confrontation. Just no one saw it driving her deeper in her insanity. She couldn't ask for any sympathy or felt like she deserved any because she killed Satoko betraying Satoshi.

[LuckyCat]

Is there any story in which Shion is an important character and doesn't go insane? I feel like she got the short end of the stick in the anime. I mean that whole scene where Shion stood up to the Sonozakis, debating their pretty grudges with the Houjous, was just spectacular.

If there isn't a "GOOD END" for Shion yet, I hope one gets written in the extra arcs on the console game coming out.

[Alu]

Originally Posted by Shiosai

If there isn't a "GOOD END" for Shion yet, I hope one gets written in the extra arcs on the console game coming out.

From what I understod.., not in one of the other arcs, but it was a matter of a choice made in Meakashi-hen..

You can look up the following post that kj1980 made in the TIPS section (page 6, post #114) :
The Alternate Future After Choosing the Other Choice (Ep. 21)

Making this probably the only "good end" in Higurashi..., that we currently know of that is.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Alu

Making this probably the only "good end" in Higurashi..., that we currently know of that is.

Unless the gas got them a couple days later like in Tsumihoroboshi-hen

[MrZombie]

It seems that Shion though has the least stable sanity of any character in the series. Really all it takes for her to be pushed over the edge is her sister to be upset about a guy. I'm suprised she doesn't snap more often.

It's almost ironic that the most seemingly stable character is the yakuza heiress Mion.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by MrZombie

It seems that Shion though has the least stable sanity of any character in the series. Really all it takes for her to be pushed over the edge is her sister to be upset about a guy. I'm suprised she doesn't snap more often.

It's almost ironic that the most seemingly stable character is the yakuza heiress Mion.

I dunno about that. There was a lot that built up to that moment over the years... her whole family (except her mother and sister) treating her like crap, for instance. K1 flipped over seeing a girl in a farming community with a hatchet and a talk with a cop. Much less stable, methinks.

But yeah, Mion is the most stable. Rika is a close second (she's not crazy, she's just way more clued in than the rest of us )

[SnowfairyX]

You know, I actually thought that Shion was developed pretty well as a character. In my opinion, her spiral into insanity was the most convincing out of the main cast and in the end, she probably left the strongest impression on me, although not exactly a good one. I thought she was the craziest character in the entire show, but that didn't necessarily mean that I liked her. I kind of hated her .

I didn't rank my favorite characters from best to worst yet so here they are:

1. Rena
2. Rika
3. Keiichi
4. Satoko
5. Mion
6. Shion

Rena and Rika are first and second place easily. Keiichi, Satoko and Mion are about tied as my favorites. And Shion is of course dead last.

And poor Satoko, receiving just one vote .

[MrZombie]

You know, I haven't ranked my fave characters yet. So here they are:

1): Mion - Far and away my favorite character. I love her tomboy attitude and yet she still has a feminine side.

2): Sakoto - It's sad to see that she gets so little love with all the hardships she's had to endure at such a young age and still came out of it very well.

3): Rika - Was I ever blown away once I found out what her big secret is. Yet, all she really wants most is the ability to have fun with her friends. Kind of hard not to cheer for her.

4): Rena - She was much higher on my list earlier in the series, but as more was reveiled about her past, she just seems a little pathetic now,

5): Keichi - He's last in the list of main characters for me. While he got a little more interesting latter in the series, he's still quite bland to me.

6) Shion - Dispite understanding her motives better, I still have no fondness for her character at all. She tries to be all sweet and innocent, but it's all fake.

[Keiichi no Hibi]

Originally Posted by MrZombie

6) Shion - Dispite understanding her motives better, I still have no fondness for her character at all. She tries to be all sweet and innocent, but it's all fake.

Wait... what? Most of her screentime was in a chapter was she was, well, crazy without a doubt, no need for "all sweet and innocent" there, but in her few appearances outside of Meakashi and Watanagashi, when and what about her was she "fake" ?

[MrZombie]

I mean the rage she carries inside. Sure when Keichi and Rena when crazy they killed one or two people, but they were always limited to their psychoses (sp?). When Shion went nuts she killed everyone. Even when they were barely connected with her.

Then again, this could just be some resentment towards her for the way she tortured and killed Mion in those two arcs. Since Mion is my favorite character I guess I might not be able to give an impartial opinion of Shion.

[Keiichi no Hibi]

But Rena would have killed an entire school full of completely innocent people if she hadn't been stopped, whereas Shion only killed people who had "wronged" Satoshi, excluding Rika, which had self defense mixed in. If Rena hadn't been stopped, her "kill count" would have been higher than Shion's.

And they were all connected to Shion, albeit through Satoshi's disappearance/suffering, which is the reason she killed them, except, again, for Rika. Meanwhile, Rena was going to kill all those kids that probably didn't even know her that well on any scale, nor did Rena hold any grudge against them, while Shion, as I said, only killed the people that, in her mind, had done wrong, from what I could tell anyway.

And I'm still confused on the "fake" part. What about her, aside from the obvious dressing up like Mion bit, was fake?

[MrZombie]

I've been thinking on it and maybe fake isn't the isn't the right word I'm looking for. It could be the anime's fault, but we don't really see much of Shion except when she is either really happy or completly insane.

We also know very little of any abuse she suffered in the past beyond being sent to that school, living with her parents and not with the main family and the fact that the family doesn't acknowledge her existance. For the anime I got the impression that Shion doesn't care about most of this as long she has the love of her parents, Kasai and sister.

It also doesn't help that I still am not one hundred percent clear on most of her motives in these two arcs. I can understand why Rena took the class hostage, she wanted to get her message out and something to be done about the "problem". Despite the explanations given, I still can't see why the continued need to pretend to be Mion once she had Keichi in her clutches. There is also why she went back to kill Keichi, I thought her revenge was finished once she left the torture chambers and had let him live. Also, I don't see why she wanted to continue living after all this. The whole story just seemed to have an air about that this was her final act before she killed herself to be with Satoshi.

It also doesn't help that the whole story arc didn't really have a point. There was no need for Shion to kill anyone. Satoshi ran away.

Maybe one day I'll tell you what I think of Satoshi.

[MarthX]

Originally Posted by Keiichi no Hibi

But Rena would have killed an entire school full of completely innocent people if she hadn't been stopped, whereas Shion only killed people who had "wronged" Satoshi, excluding Rika, which had self defense mixed in. If Rena hadn't been stopped, her "kill count" would have been higher than Shion's.

And they were all connected to Shion, albeit through Satoshi's disappearance/suffering, which is the reason she killed them, except, again, for Rika. Meanwhile, Rena was going to kill all those kids that probably didn't even know her that well on any scale, nor did Rena hold any grudge against them, while Shion, as I said, only killed the people that, in her mind, had done wrong, from what I could tell anyway.

And I'm still confused on the "fake" part. What about her, aside from the obvious dressing up like Mion bit, was fake?

Keiichi had nothing to do Satoshi and she tried to kill him. One could argue that she did. If he hadn't been stabbed then he would have moved away. Instead she put him in the hospital and I'm sure his weakened condition contributed to his heart failure. At the end Shion wasn't killing just to avenge Satoshi, she was killing for the fun of it. Rena had plenty of time to kill the entire school but that wasn't her intention. She was using them as a means to push start the investigation on the Sonozakis. Rena was also able to snap out of it and I don't believe it's just because Keiichi knew she was going through. He tried his best to help Shion (although he thought she was Mion) too but she stabbed him anyway. Shion isn't as stable as Rena in my opinion. The only people Rena ended up killing were scum.

[Keiichi no Hibi]

Well there was that one part in Tatoriogoshi-hen (I know that's spelled wrong, it's gotta be) when she was all serious when Keiichi told her Satoshi transfered away? :x

At which point did she live with her parents? From what I got, she lived at the school, with Kasai for a while and then finally by herself after Satoshi disapeared. And even if she DID seem like she was fine with it, the fact remains her family treated her like crap.

And she DID stop being Mion after she left, seeing as "Mion" was the suspect and "Shion" was the victim. But then she was hallucinating Mion/hearing her ghost, she had to go kill Keiichi to stop "Mion" and the only way to do that was to dress like Mion again. ... I think

EDIT: And as for Keiichi, wouldn't it make sense for her to go after him because he kind of instigated the whole thing by giving Rena the doll? And then she was crying when she was going to "kill" him the first time, and she did kind of let him go before she lost it and went after him again, but I think at that point she was too far gone for reasoning, really believing she had to kill Keiichi to stop Mion from haunting/somehow killing her back through the haunting. What with the "I made it in time!" bit. 'least I think that's what it was, that whole scene went by too fast in the anime.

And on Rena, yeah you're right, though I wasn't intending to say Rena was more stable than Shion because yeah, you'd be hard pressed to get more "unstable" than Shion was in Meakashi. What I guess I'm saying is that, for one, if Keiichi had been one second later as far as the bomb was concerned, even if they were for the whole investigation, all those kids, AND Rena herself, would have died and nothing would have been accomplished besides for the deaths of an entire school, despite it being for a "just cause."

[FatPianoBoy]

If we want to cut down on pointless arguing, people need to go read the tips whenever they feel the phrase 'I don't know' or 'I don't understand' trying to come out

[Matrim]

What I guess I'm saying is that, for one, if Keiichi had been one second later as far as the bomb was concerned, even if they were for the whole investigation, all those kids, AND Rena herself, would have died and nothing would have been accomplished besides for the deaths of an entire school, despite it being for a "just cause."

Quoted for truth. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. If Shion had tried to hold so many hostages, we wouldn't have heard the end of all the complaints. But when Rena does it - it's all cool, poor girl is just fighting against the evil Sonozakis in her own way, you know...Don't get me wrong, Rena is cool but both her and Shion were more than ready to kill anyone who stood in their way. The only difference is Rena snapped out of it before getting too far.

[MrZombie]

I wasn't actually excusing Rena for taking the school hostage and trying to kill them, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that from Rena's point of view it makes sense for her to take them hostage. She wanted something done and this was the only way she thought it could be done.

Now, just because I understand why she didn't doesn't make it the right thing to do. I just said that I can see why she did it compared to why Shion tried to kill Keichi.

[Matrim]

Keiichi was Mion's Satoshi, I think that's good enough reason for the crazy Shion to kill him.

Quote from the tips thread (Shion refers to her sister as "Shion", you probably know why) :

...I’ll kill him kill him, Satoshi-kun’s revenge Satoshi’s revenge, ...he is the person Shion likes, I hate Shion, kill him and show Shion, take that taaaaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkkkee, ... gu…f......................!

The surrounding gravity swirls around me.
I stab Keiichi in the abdominal area with all my strength.