Re:Zero Second Season - Anime Episode Discussion

[SeaDoor]

I've watched every episode and ova of this series so far and understand that pain and suffering is part of the story. However... this episode felt that it crossed the line and was piling on just for the sake of outdoing previous episodes. I think this episode was handled a little too heavy-handedly.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by GDB

So I guess the main question I have right now is whether or not he got a new save point at any time or if he'll have to redo some of those great starting points of this loop again.

Also, what happened to the letter? Roswaal seemed to not know what Subaru was talking about there.

One of the Ryuzu clones swiped it. You see one of them monitoring Subaru as he leaves at place Emilia is staying last ep.

[HandofFate]

So I guess Emilia just going crazy to the total deep end from last time was from Subaru taking even longer to come back.

Betty story so sad T_T
Emilia to me just seems like such a burden.

Roswall definitely acting like a jerk, but gonna respect his commitment to his goal.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

So I guess Emilia just going crazy to the total deep end from last time was from Subaru taking even longer to come back.

You are oversimplifying the issue.
Emilia literally broke mentally for multiple factors piled together in a very tight succession and Roswaal did that on purpose to boot.

• Puck has been MIA for days ever since they left the mansion. Lest you forgot, Puck has been the primary emotional support for Emilia (as pointed in Frozen Bond OVA) and the only character that could be considered as family to her before Subaru showed up.
• Subaru who was the only person you could call a friend and the only person who told her they love her completely disappeared without a trace several days, right after he declared he will always by her side, and that's after almost dying on her (the magic stones of fire after the battle of the whale)
• Roswaal deliberately isolated her by using spells that would pin the bad situation on her. Garfiel most likely went 'Half Demon tirade" instead of ironically calling her a princess as pointed in this episode, while the half humans and Alm villagers would definitely be very cautious about her. It is also very likely Ram was ordered not to attend Emilia at all in the process.
• All the while she was doing the trial, even though the first time already brought her to her knees. Considering what Subaru went through, it is very likely Emilia got trapped in an illusion where every single person would admonish her for being a half elf, which would obviously trigger her trauma (As seen in Frozen Bonds OVA, being completely isolated, almost losing Puck due to that fire spirit etc)

So she was effectively alone for several days under mental stress (which was already there prior that arc since the witch cult attack happened barely few days prior this one), while her past always has been gnawing her for years. If anything, it is surprising Emilia was still mentally sound up to the sanctuary arc. From what has been revealed thus far, Emilia has suffered the most among all characters expect for Subaru.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I very much doubt Subaru's save point was updated since it's clear leaving Sanctuary was a mistake. He was teleported back there by Beatrice and everything was already completely fucked. And here we thought he was off to a great start this time.

The latest it could be updated was after his talk with Emilia where he called her a fairy. Any later and history is screwed for him.

Originally Posted by Applehell

One of the Ryuzu clones swiped it. You see one of them monitoring Subaru as he leaves at place Emilia is staying last ep.

Oh, missed that.

[moridin84]

If there was nothing in Beatrice's book, I don't understand why she reacted differently to Subaru when he first arrived. Did Roswaal let her know somehow?

If Emila can become yandere like this, maybe Satella really is just future Emila.

Roswaal is aware that Subaru can reset but doesn't realize that it's automatic. This means that Roswaal will probably never try to kill Subaru himself to force a reset. Perhaps not understanding the mechanic is part of the reason he gives Subaru a free rein.

It looks like returning to the mansion so early is simply a mistake. He knows Beatrice's story now and it looks like she can't deal with Elsa by herself so there is no point in returning with the mansion without Garfield. And Emila deal with the trial without Subaru's help.

So right now, the only option is the solve the trials. If the solution is just for Subaru to solve the trials himself... then the last several episodes will free very frustrating to watch since he is purposely avoiding the solution. So that seems unlikely. Then maybe Subaru is going to talk with Emila about her experiences in the trial? Help her that way? Do you even remember what happens in the trial normally?

Passing the trials (whether Emila or Subaru) seems like the only solution to solve all these problems. At the same time, if that solved it so easily then it would make Subaru seem like a complete idiot for going through so many loops without concentrating on it.

Oh, another thing interesting is Elsa's comment "I don't like your eyes". I wonder what that is about.

----------------
I wasn't really fond of the idea of Roswaal being behind everything because (a) it's an obvious thing to guess and (b) for it to make sense Roswaal needed to be practically omniscient.

However, Roswaal has his book of truth which is written by Echidna. And Echidna has been proven to be practically omniscient. There have been constant hints that Echidna is not a good person but she has been portrayed pretty positively so far. So her being the mastermind behind the entire series of events is reasonable twist.

One of the Ryuzu clones swiped it. You see one of them monitoring Subaru as he leaves at place Emilia is staying last ep.

...

Why though?

[Metaneo]

Probably because Roswaal told her to. Since he seems to have a connection to Echidna, he's probably an Apostle of Greed as well.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

Probably because Roswaal told her to. Since he seems to have a connection to Echidna, he's probably an Apostle of Greed as well.

No, Roswaal didn't know about the letter. And he had no reason to lie to Subaru at that point.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by moridin84

If Emila can become yandere like this, maybe Satella really is just future Emila.

Not really. Satella might be pretty insane but she isn't oblivious to the point of not noticing Subaru dying. Be it through RbD or their first confrontation.
Emilia on the other hand went completely crazy to the point she didn't care as long as "Subaru" was at her side. Their "love" is pretty different and their behaviour don't match. She didn't develop any shadow either, which is said to be Satella trademark, so it is very likely Emilia "just" went insane.

Why though?

Similarly to Garfiel who used the clones as meatshield against Satella, Subaru most likely commanded the clones to shield him out of desperation.

[moridin84]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Emilia on the other hand went completely crazy to the point she didn't care as long as "Subaru" was at her side. Their "love" is pretty different and their behaviour don't match. She didn't develop any shadow either, which is said to be Satella trademark, so it is very likely Emilia "just" went insane.

If she was acting like you said then I would not have said that she might be Satella in the future. I would have thought that she was possessed by Satella.

Similarly to Garfiel who used the clones as meatshield against Satella, Subaru most likely commanded the clones to shield him out of desperation.

?

I was wondering why the clones would have swiped Subaru's letter to Emila.

[Metaneo]

Who knows at this point. Maybe the clone swiped the letter because she likes Subaru and it belonged to him.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by moridin84

If she was acting like you said then I would not have said that she might be Satella in the future. I would have thought that she was possessed by Satella.

The thing is that Emilia doesn't really have much in common in term of behaviour even when she was brought to insanity. Insane Emilia just wanted Subaru by her side, while Satella wanted his love (and by extention, him staying alive, thus the RbD). Granted, I understand Emilia from a doomed route could potentially degrade to the point of going obsessed like Satella, but assuming Satella is Emilia from a doomed future, it just doesn't add up since she would have gone hundred years in the past instead of the present days. But then again, we don't have any solid evidence both are different either, but from characterization perspective, they are too different in my books.

I was wondering why the clones would have swiped Subaru's letter to Emila.

The only possible culprit aside of Roswaal has to be one of the clones. If one of them could develop a personality to a certain degree, it isn't far fetched another one got one as well.
From what Ram stated before, some people do not wish to leave the sanctuary, so it is possible that clone thought thwarting Emilia's efforts that way would maintain the current state of the sanctuary, not realizing it would have a much bigger impact.

The reason why I have my doubts about one of the clones is that it is because of the white Ryuzu was always there when Garfiel was losing it. In most loops, Garfiel begrudgingly let Subaru assist Emilia during her trials or let Subaru leave the sanctuary.
But the two instances a white Ryuzu was alongside with him, things soured quickly. The first one was before Garfiel abducted Subaru and transformed (even in the last loop, Garfiel fell for Subaru's provocations but didn't transform), then we have this instance where Garfiel was about to transform while Subaru was noting how Emilia loved him.
Since Garfiel is devoted to the sanctuary, my assumption is that white ryuzu fed him false information which made him distrust Subaru quite a lot. This also explains why in the latest loop, Garfiel didn't go super violent against Subaru even though the Witch's scent subject was brought to the table.

[Frontier]

Yeah, I feel like Subaru is going to have to figure out what's going on with the black and white Ryuzu clones with different last names in order to make headway in Sanctuary, beyond getting Emilia to a point where she could pass the Trials which he'll probably only be able to do if he has their permission to continue participating in the Trials.

[FlameSparkZ]

Indeed.
Let's not forget that there's 4 Ryuzu with a personality: Bilma (black robe) and Shima (white robe, different from the empty clones) and two more we may or may have not seen(?). Bilma herself said the way they distinguish from the other clones is by having different surnames, along with different interests, hobbies, etc.

Also note how Ryuzu Bilma told Subaru to ask "her" the same question "after tomorrow". Does this mean the Ryuzus "work" in shifts? Not sure what sort of mechanism is used, but she seemed to imply that they do.

Then, wouldn't the leader of the Anti-Liberation faction be a Ryuzu clone? One of the first four? Most likely Shima, since Subaru was confined in the loop she revealed herself.

All that's left is explain Garfiel's erratic behavior throughout the loops. Like how he has command over the clones, but seems to follow/respect both (if not all) Ryuzu's instructions.

[~Yami~]

I still remember the worst episode when Rem got twisted to death by Petelgeuse.. it is a heartwrenching moment

but this episode is just way worst
I got tricked so bad for thinking that this is the final loop.. then got punched unprepared like this
Can't believe that Subaru might not get anything from this loop
He failed to save Beatrice (and even forcing his ideal to her), failed to find out how to beat Elza, failed to save Frederica and Petra, witnessing Emilia become insane, seeing Garfield and Ram died together (this is at least looks romantic for me), got confused hard by Roswaal, which proceeded to be lynched to death by White Rabbit.. then got minced hard by rabbits, only to die on Emilia's lap

Two precious things that he got from this loop are Maylie's identity and getting Emilia's kiss (it is a kiss before his death, right?)

If Echidna really oversaw all of these events, it is not surprising that all witches are attracted to Subaru

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I still remember the worst episode when Rem got twisted to death by Petelgeuse.. it is a heartwrenching moment

but this episode is just way worst
I got tricked so bad for thinking that this is the final loop.. then got punched unprepared like this
Can't believe that Subaru might not get anything from this loop
He failed to save Beatrice (and even forcing his ideal to her), failed to find out how to beat Elza, failed to save Frederica and Petra, witnessing Emilia become insane, seeing Garfield and Ram died together (this is at least looks romantic for me), got confused hard by Roswaal, which proceeded to be lynched to death by White Rabbit.. then got minced hard by rabbits, only to die on Emilia's lap

Two precious things that he got from this loop are Maylie's identity and getting Emilia's kiss (it is a kiss before his death, right?)

If Echidna really oversaw all of these events, it is not surprising that all witches are attracted to Subaru

Not just Maylie, but he knows what Beatrice's problem is now and that he can't trust Roswaal.

I wonder if he'll ask Echidna for a way to save Beatrice when he next talks to her?

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

You are oversimplifying the issue.
Emilia literally broke mentally for multiple factors piled together in a very tight succession and Roswaal did that on purpose to boot.

• Puck has been MIA for days ever since they left the mansion. Lest you forgot, Puck has been the primary emotional support for Emilia (as pointed in Frozen Bond OVA) and the only character that could be considered as family to her before Subaru showed up.
• Subaru who was the only person you could call a friend and the only person who told her they love her completely disappeared without a trace several days, right after he declared he will always by her side, and that's after almost dying on her (the magic stones of fire after the battle of the whale)
• Roswaal deliberately isolated her by using spells that would pin the bad situation on her. Garfiel most likely went 'Half Demon tirade" instead of ironically calling her a princess as pointed in this episode, while the half humans and Alm villagers would definitely be very cautious about her. It is also very likely Ram was ordered not to attend Emilia at all in the process.
• All the while she was doing the trial, even though the first time already brought her to her knees. Considering what Subaru went through, it is very likely Emilia got trapped in an illusion where every single person would admonish her for being a half elf, which would obviously trigger her trauma (As seen in Frozen Bonds OVA, being completely isolated, almost losing Puck due to that fire spirit etc)

So she was effectively alone for several days under mental stress (which was already there prior that arc since the witch cult attack happened barely few days prior this one), while her past always has been gnawing her for years. If anything, it is surprising Emilia was still mentally sound up to the sanctuary arc. From what has been revealed thus far, Emilia has suffered the most among all characters expect for Subaru.

Also worth remembering the in ep 3 of this arc, Emilia told Roswaal that she honestly had been feeling on edge every since she step into the sanctuary & has not been able to really calm down. The place has atmosphere that is really oppressive to her which empathized a bit more in LN but basically she is bearing with this unsettling feeling the best she can without Puck's presence with what bits of support she allow herself to take from Subaru. I fact out of everyone she is probably the person who wants to leave this place the most. This also contributes her lack of confidence & delicate emotional state right now.

[SeaDoor]

Just wondering if there are two save points in play during this arc, one is a bit more positive and the other is a lot more negative. Subaru's returns are alternating between the two.

[GDB]

There's only one save-point. What happens is entirely dictated on how he acts.

[Applehell]

And don't forgot based on what Echidna said that savepoint is only where it is because that is the crossroad where Subaru can avoid his own death.