(L) Magi - Labyrinth of Magic [manga]

[Tempest35]

- It doesn't matter how many 'good turns' they are in a road if all it does it lead you off a cliff.

- It takes only a bit of poison to ruin your entire drink/meal. Sure it might have affected just a small portion of it but do you want to risk it?

For Solomon, his people swore to follow his vision and his will for the future because they believed (at the time) it would be the best way. How is it failing on Solomon if they stopped believing that it was for the best because they got shorted out of their magic? To make all races equal would have meant some concessions on their part and for them, it was their magic.
Humans are selfish: as long as they lose little to nothing in a deal, they are alright and see it as being 'fair'.

[ChampDream]

That was a interesting chapter, the way Hakuryuu twist Alibaba's words, I got to agree with Hakuryuu in the way Alibaba start being all nice at the start of the conversation, I alos it show how much Alibaba need to learn about talking with people with different standards, specially twisted ones like Hakuryuu.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tempest35

- It doesn't matter how many 'good turns' they are in a road if all it does it lead you off a cliff.

- It takes only a bit of poison to ruin your entire drink/meal. Sure it might have affected just a small portion of it but do you want to risk it?

That's really an argument for getting rid of both Kouen and Hakuryu. Or, heck, to adopt their philosophy and just get rid of whoever doesn't agree with you...


It was funny to watch him denounce Alibaba's use of his love for his sister (and Morgiana) when his own uprising is based around a brainwashing djinn. But I have to agree with him regarding Kouen. While I don't think Kouen's worse than Al Tharmen (I think it's his personal grudge talking), he's pretty spot on on what Kouen's done, and what he would do given half a chance. If they're really serious about protecting the world, no strategy that doesn't at least defang him is viable. (Unlike Hakuryu, I'd be willing to go for something like "Kouen unconditionally renounce his claim to Kou and submits to Sinbad or Mu", but I don't think Kouen would, so war to the finish it is.)

And while, yes, Hakuryu's also hypocritical, you've got to see it from his point of view. He's making sacrifices for what he considers is right. He's not in conflict with his sister for fun. And Alibaba's got to throw it in his face, pour salt on the wound, just so Hakuryu will bend?

[Tempest35]

I gather Alibabba did that because the old Hakuryuu would have reacted very strongly to him saying something like that about the two most important women in his life. But as we saw, Hakuryuu is willing to go through them to accomplish this so Alibabba's up the SOL creek without a paddle.

When it comes to things like this, I ask, 'Who is going to benefit more from this senario?'. I highly doubt if the regular citizens would be better off under either Kouen or Hakuryuu for the immediate future. The only ones who would benefit are the ones who would be in the ruling party - making this a pretty selfish venture on all sides. When it comes down to it, one's 'right to rule' isn't what makes one worthy, it's how you rule.

Everything would be nice and peaceful if everyone thought the same way but therein lies the problem - getting others to see it that way.

[dazo]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Thing is, even if Alibaba's methods are questionable, his intentions are genuinely good. Hakuryuu, on the other hand, doesn't care about anything. And he's not even honest about it. All that shit about his own justice and his own world and whatnot is a lie. Just a excuse to justice what he really wants: destruction.

So, all in all, he's like 500% worse than Alibaba.

..are good for what he think is good.

(this chapter was good because showed, apart of the fact that alibaba manipulated other through good will, that his right is a good as the right of the neighbors /nameless soldier..and the same concept apply for any person in magi ) and alibaba good have big holes that are "bad"


Hakuryuu doesn't care, yes, but he have very valid points, and his goal is to crush kouen forces, that used al-thamen to expand their dangerous ideology- "good goal"

*if he is not owned by sinbad, Hakuryuu sooner or later is going to find a way to destroy solomon will and stop the white/black ruhk bs forever*

For Solomon, his people swore to follow his vision and his will for the future because they believed (at the time) it would be the best way. How is it failing on Solomon if they stopped believing that it was for the best because they got shorted out of their magic? To make all races equal would have meant some concessions on their part and for them, it was their magic.

well.. killing god was never part of solomon speech *yes, the choose the dude as a king..but a "god" have a higher position than a king .*
even before raiding the cathedral, the magicians and species were calling for their "god guidance"

and, solomon acted without thinking..he was the head, he needed to think in the repercussion too.*the dude don't even created unlimited resources for alma-torran world = crisis are going to return*

there are a few problem with the equality:
-magician received magic to control the wars between species - so, they are not similar to the rest

-magician wanted to stop the mindcontrol of the species, - yes, because they thought that it was a improper way to accomplish "spaghetti god" wishes

-equality is impossible with nerfed humans, because human are most weak species and only exist in the actual time thank to "spaghetti god" and its decision to give them magic - in order to be similar, humans need power to defended themselves

- the equality concept need time to form a strong base...and , till that moment, the species need a good leader capable to stop wars - power

-war were mean to return sooner or later and nerfed magician are going to die

and, yes, magicians are selfish too *they loved their status - solomon broke the game, instead of adding balance to all classes *
___________________

When it comes to things like this, I ask, 'Who is going to benefit more from this senario?'. I highly doubt if the regular citizens would be better off under either Kouen or Hakuryuu for the immediate future.

well...if kouen die, the slavery system is over..and, i am pretty sure, that something like that is going to benefice the regular citizen in the immediate future

The only ones who would benefit are the ones who would be in the ruling party - making this a pretty selfish venture on all sides. When it comes down to it, one's 'right to rule' isn't what makes one worthy, it's how you rule.

a king is meant to be selfish...you cant gain that title with good wishes..and you also need to have the "right to rule" and "a good rulling= public safety and good economy" to be able sit in a throne

Everything would be nice and peaceful if everyone thought the same way but therein lies the problem - getting others to see it that way.

what way?

[Tempest35]

Originally Posted by dazo

..are good for what he think is good.

(this chapter was good because showed, apart of the fact that alibaba manipulated other through good will, that his right is a good as the right of the neighbors /nameless soldier..and the same concept apply for any person in magi ) and alibaba good have big holes that are "bad"


Hakuryuu doesn't care, yes, but he have very valid points, and his goal is to crush kouen forces, that used al-thamen to expand their dangerous ideology- "good goal"

*if he is not owned by sinbad, Hakuryuu sooner or later is going to find a way to destroy solomon will and stop the white/black ruhk bs forever*


well.. killing god was never part of solomon speech *yes, the choose the dude as a king..but a "god" have a higher position than a king .*
even before raiding the cathedral, the magicians and species were calling for their "god guidance"

and, solomon acted without thinking..he was the head, he needed to think in the repercussion too.*the dude don't even created unlimited resources for alma-torran world = crisis are going to return*

Since when was he, or anyone for that matter, suppose to create unlimited resources for their country/world? That's an unreasonable expectation - something like that can't be solved by just one man.

there are a few problem with the equality:
-magician received magic to control the wars between species - so, they are not similar to the rest

And those very humans ended up abusing the magic so much, subjugating the other races like that. I don't care if they did it for retaliation for the years/centuries that they were hunted and eaten - the purpose for which they did all of that was wrong, especially to the point where they twisted words to indoctrinate children into sacrificing their lives to power the great staves. It wasn't necessary.

-magician wanted to stop the mindcontrol of the species, - yes, because they thought that it was a improper way to accomplish "spaghetti god" wishes

Which magician are you talking about? Arba? Because we all known how she ended up...

-equality is impossible with nerfed humans, because human are most weak species and only exist in the actual time thank to "spaghetti god" and its decision to give them magic - in order to be similar, humans need power to defended themselves

And with what Solomon had created, there was suppose to be discourse between the races - the time of fighting between themselves was suppose to be over. There is something fundamentally wrong with an idea of 'equality' if it's measuring how much damage can I output versus the guy next to me. But since it's easier, and more profitable, to think of 'equality' as this... it is the norm.

- the equality concept need time to form a strong base...and , till that moment, the species need a good leader capable to stop wars - power

-war were mean to return sooner or later and nerfed magician are going to die

The three magi he left were suppose to take care of that aspect. They were the oldest and suppose to be the wisest out of Solomon's group and in certain respects, they were. They just didn't understand the scope of his vision (Sheba), too afraid to act on their own (Ugo), or plain opposed to him (Arba).

and, yes, magicians are selfish too *they loved their status - solomon broke the game, instead of adding balance to all classes *

The 'game' was flawed to begin with. 'Spaghetti God' as you call him, made it that way. The 'game' was designed with humanity's downfall being an apparent future event. Solomon 'broke' it to give them a chance to escape that fate. But Arba didn't take that too kindly...
I mean, c'mon, who wants to live in a world where no matter what you do, it doesn't matter since 'God' is going to suck your life away despite if you're good, bad, rich, poor, magician, or not and leave the planet a destitute, barren piece of rock? That could have been done with non-sentient beings just as easily.

well...if kouen die, the slavery system is over..and, i am pretty sure, that something like that is going to benefice the regular citizen in the immediate future

The slave system is not over with Kouen's death - Kouen doesn't own all the slaves. The Imperial authority behind slaves will disappear but that will just mean that whoever can still enforce it on their own will keep their slaves, while others will leave or kill for their freedom. The regular citizens won't benefit because their 'working class' would have disappeared and now they have to fend for themselves. Some may be able to make the transition between forced labor and paid labor but the ones who try to do it through force will ruin it for everyone else.

a king is meant to be selfish...you cant gain that title with good wishes..and you also need to have the "right to rule" and "a good rulling= public safety and good economy" to be able sit in a throne

And for what purpose is that king sitting on that throne - to satisfy his own lusts and wants? That's not a king, that's a tyrant. A ruler is to provide a setting where the people who submit to him can live, work, and have a family. And the fact of the matter is that yes you actually can attain that title with good wishes and intentions, but certain people, both within and without, will always try to force things down the darker paths, not just because it is 'reality' - it is a 'reality' of their own making because of their own personal whims.
Economy is outside of a government's total control. Public safety also depends on the mindset of the citizens if they're going to riot at every chance they get or will they help each other through times of crisis.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by dazo

Hakuryuu doesn't care, yes, but he have very valid points, and his goal is to crush kouen forces, that used al-thamen to expand their dangerous ideology- "good goal"

*if he is not owned by sinbad, Hakuryuu sooner or later is going to find a way to destroy solomon will and stop the white/black ruhk bs forever*

He doesn't care about stopping the white/black rukh thing. He doesn't care about anything at all. Judar himself said that Haku's just lashing out, remember? He's a hate machine who is just looking for excuses to kill more and more people. After killing Koen, he'll find more excuses to keep killing, until there's no one else to kill. At this point he's as bad as Al Tharmen, because what he really wants is to destroy everything. That's why Judar is on his side to begin with.

(this chapter was good because showed, apart of the fact that alibaba manipulated other through good will, that his right is a good as the right of the neighbors /nameless soldier..and the same concept apply for any person in magi ) and alibaba good have big holes that are "bad"

Alibaba would like to get Balbad from Koen's hands, but he won't do it if it means the people will suffer. Regardless of his methods, his intention is selfless. That's why he's good. Haku, on the other hand, is selfish to the core.

[Sixth]

Wow you guys called Alibaba shady and Hakuryuu is interesting? The hell.... wrong with you guys.

Sorry but nothing that came out from Hakuryuu's mouth was making sense or have a point. This guy is hypocrite and walking mass murderers. He will keep murdering people. Did you guys missed one or two chapters before reading this chapter? Judar stated that pretty clearly in previous chapters.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by noobita

Big slap of what? Hakuryuu is twisting Alibaba's word to his own version. You sounded like Alibaba is doing those "nice things" because he want them to worship him. Alibaba is genuine a nice person here and it was sad to see people trying to downplay his character.

Hakuryuu is just insane. Whatever your reasons were, killing people; especially involved with mass civilians for your own selfish goal is simply wrong. You think Hakuryuu really care about the world being and what Kouen did? He is simply using "Kouen being villain and must be punished" card just to justify his bloodlust.

You know what? Even if he killed Kouen, he will simply find another excuse to execute Sinbad on later.

Your moral point of view allows you to miss the point entirely. Being a genuine person is not an end all goal in this manga. I'm quite surprised you can defend that with so many gray characters in this manga. It's not as if someone who is light, can never do something wrong.

Originally Posted by ZeroForever

neither is good but Hakuryuu is clearly worse in more respects to modern day moralism. There is very little justification for mass mind raping and as Judar points out in the manga it's just a excuse so he can kill things, Haku's not actually doing it for the greater good or anything.

One of the points that Haku was making about Alibabba, is that he fails to see his own hypocrisy because he thinks that he's acting for the greater good. The conversations Haku had with Judar earlier show that Hakuryuu is aware of his own hypocrisy, whilst Alibabba isn't.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Thing is, even if Alibaba's methods are questionable, his intentions are genuinely good. Hakuryuu, on the other hand, doesn't care about anything. And he's not even honest about it. All that shit about his own justice and his own world and whatnot is a lie. Just a excuse to justify what he really wants: destruction.

So, all in all, he's like 500% worse than Alibaba.

If only good intentions were what it takes to be right. Hakuryuu already honestly told Judar he will destroy. He's being more honest than Alibabba.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He doesn't care about stopping the white/black rukh thing. He doesn't care about anything at all. Judar himself said that Haku's just lashing out, remember? He's a hate machine who is just looking for excuses to kill more and more people. After killing Koen, he'll find more excuses to keep killing, until there's no one else to kill. At this point he's as bad as Al Tharmen, because what he really wants is to destroy everything. That's why Judar is on his side to begin with.

Alibaba would like to get Balbad from Koen's hands, but he won't do it if it means the people will suffer. Regardless of his methods, his intention is selfless. That's why he's good. Haku, on the other hand, is selfish to the core.

Hakuryuu already agreed that he's not that noble. Unlike Alibabba he isn't making it prettier than he thinks it is, nor is he playing on people's goodwill to get what he wants. In the end, Alibbaba does not necessarily does what's good, he's doing what he thinks is good. It's not like all the citizens of Baldad chose a representative who then asked Alibabba to free their kingdom. I doubt his selflessness in that.

At this point I just can't see how a person who can't be honest (and thinks he is in the right if he delivers a low blow yet talks about things like fairness) about things that matters to him is a paragon of justice compared to a crazy guy who resolved himself to follow his dark path to the end; knowing he's doing wrong yet not trying to sugarcoat it.

Kazu, you forget that people like Aladdin and Alibabba like to manipulate others into thinking that only they are right, to some extent.

[Sixth]

Wow, now Alibaba is a manipulator and hypcrite. So next time when someone ask you to do right thing, he is a manipulator, am i right? It was mind blow to learn that Alibaba is now considered as shady and hypocrite guy because he is doing the right thing. So you prefer Alibaba to take out his sword and slain whatever things that move because that would make him interesting and justifiable.

Suddenly those people who shot people in school ground was "right".

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by noobita

Wow, now Alibaba is a manipulator. So next time when someone ask you to do right thing, he is a manipulator, am i right.

Suddenly those people who shot people in school ground was "right" thing.

Ah, so the part when Alibabba tries to play on Hakuryuu's relation with his sister was a case of mass delusion. Nice tendentious argument you got there.

[arthand]

I have no idea why Alibaba is trying to stop Hakuryuu , i mean Kouen practically raped his country but he isnt doing anything . Whats with that logic that " being allive is good even tough you are a slave " but life of a slavedoesnt worth shit nothing pretty much protects them , i mean look at Morgana and how she got abused . Morganas abuse was encouraged by the slave system , i am not sure how Kouens system but the things we saw in Balbad wasnt good .

Let me ask you guys then if if Hakuryuu takes Balbad from Kouen then would people think oh we are free lets go to our old king who abandoned us when we were slaves ? Alibaba is the wrong one in this arc since he choose to live without dignity and let his people live same way , on the other hand as bad as he is Hakuryuu didnt accepted that though he doesnt really care about it lol this is annoying .

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

Ah, so the part when Alibabba tries to play on Hakuryuu's relation with his sister was a case of mass delusion. Nice tendentious argument you got there.

And how about the rubbish who brought up the Balbad issue to Alibaba in this chapter again?

Based on your logic, next time if you want to commit suicide, your friend was trying to convince you not to commit suicide by bringing up your family relations issue ( your father would feel sad), would you considered him as manipulative as well?

I have no idea why Alibaba is trying to stop Hakuryuu , i mean Kouen practically raped his country but he isnt doing anything . Whats with that logic that " being allive is good even tough you are a slave " but life of a slavedoesnt worth shit nothing pretty much protects them , i mean look at Morgana and how she got abused . Morganas abuse was encouraged by the slave system , i am not sure how Kouens system but the things we saw in Balbad wasnt good .

Let me ask you guys then if if Hakuryuu takes Balbad from Kouen then would people think oh we are free lets go to our old king who abandoned us when we were slaves ? Alibaba is the wrong one in this arc since he choose to live without dignity and let his people live same way , on the other hand as bad as he is Hakuryuu didnt accepted that though he doesnt really care about it lol this is annoying .

And Balbadd would be better under the mental challenged Hakuryuu's rules? I don't know but it definitely doesn't sound fun when you can either have your will robbed from the djinn mind control or get killed on whim because Hakuryuu want to lick some bloods on one of those days. Sorry but Balbadd under Kouen's reign is 100x better than the bloodlusted king, and I don't remember that civilians got tortured by Kouen's rules. They just lost their identity but they can still live like normal day without worried being killed.

[dazo]

Spoiler for @tempest:

Originally Posted by Tempest35

Since when was he, or anyone for that matter, suppose to create unlimited resources for their country/world? That's an unreasonable expectation - something like that can't be solved by just one man.

well, the war started for a lack of resources and overpopulation.

and if solomon was able to control the "lines of the world" and, strip il-ilahh from his power , turning himself into a "god"..i am sure that he could have created unlimited resources, or change the biology of the species to stop the resource problem..
*the resources issues returned again, when the citizen were "refugees" in the dungeon after spaghetti god 2 descend to earth *

And those very humans ended up abusing the magic so much, subjugating the other races like that. I don't care if they did it for retaliation for the years/centuries that they were hunted and eaten - the purpose for which they did all of that was wrong, especially to the point where they twisted words to indoctrinate children into sacrificing their lives to power the great staves. It wasn't necessary.

yes, and with solomon guidance , the magicians started to notice their wrong doings.

thoughts time:
+when you have so many species in the world fighting for supremacy... the mindf*ck is actually a good way to fix the issues.

+with magic the humans archived the top of the food chain, and make the species mere animal(sound bad, i know )...i suppose that the ability to think and talk make them more than chickens *ugh, my darkside*

Which magician are you talking about? Arba? Because we all known how she ended up...

solomon group(solomon was the first though) , they mentioned that the "the orthodox church was flowing a wrong path"

And with what Solomon had created, there was suppose to be discourse between the races - the time of fighting between themselves was suppose to be over. There is something fundamentally wrong with an idea of 'equality' if it's measuring how much damage can I output versus the guy next to me. But since it's easier, and more profitable, to think of 'equality' as this... it is the norm.

yep
example:
if i am next to a big red lion, angel or a huge snake(vinea)..i am going to start thinking that the equality is...mm..

war always return, apart of the differences and the "possible " feeling of inferiority of the "species"(that create fear..and fear end in violence) , the resource issue is going to return sooner or later.
*i think that 40 years after solomon death is expected span of time for a new war*

The three magi he left were suppose to take care of that aspect. They were the oldest and suppose to be the wisest out of Solomon's group and in certain respects, they were. They just didn't understand the scope of his vision (Sheba), too afraid to act on their own (Ugo), or plain opposed to him (Arba).

the magi system is wrong, "watchmen" can only create troubles.

and expecting that you more closely follower think like you, is alibaba level of nonsense..

The 'game' was flawed to begin with. 'Spaghetti God' as you call him, made it that way. The 'game' was designed with humanity's downfall being an apparent future event. Solomon 'broke' it to give them a chance to escape that fate. But Arba didn't take that too kindly...
I mean, c'mon, who wants to live in a world where no matter what you do, it doesn't matter since 'God' is going to suck your life away despite if you're good, bad, rich, poor, magician, or not and leave the planet a destitute, barren piece of rock? That could have been done with non-sentient beings just as easily.

hey, spaghetti god sound good, and its common way to refer to ill-ilhal /dat name

i agree that the game was flawed, but at the same time, nobody can notice the problem if you they don't look into the "inner files".

but, when you strip god of its power..you crush him, or you decide to create a new world withou fate...but you don't change fate for your vision of fate
(the game was playable at it come with a mod tool if you beat the final boss....the problems was the modder mind)

The slave system is not over with Kouen's death - Kouen doesn't own all the slaves. The Imperial authority behind slaves will disappear but that will just mean that whoever can still enforce it on their own will keep their slaves, while others will leave or kill for their freedom. The regular citizens won't benefit because their 'working class' would have disappeared and now they have to fend for themselves. Some may be able to make the transition between forced labor and paid labor but the ones who try to do it through force will ruin it for everyone else.

with the fall of kouen, all laws created to destroy the cities "culture " and the slavery systems are over(scarface is not going to accept kouen ideology)

without slaves of koeu policy, the cities society are going to be more calmed(better climate, happy citizen,family reunions= immediate changes ), yes, the industry is going to suffer(the infrastructure is there, so the econmy is not goign to return to pre-slavery system ), but it something that can be controlled.
(any person that try to keep using slaves can expect to be killed)

and sinbad is going to appear to "save" kou new economy (kou economy must be trash in the actual moment...war is a costly business )

And for what purpose is that king sitting on that throne - to satisfy his own lusts and wants? That's not a king, that's a tyrant. A ruler is to provide a setting where the people who submit to him can live, work, and have a family. And the fact of the matter is that yes you actually can attain that title with good wishes and intentions, but certain people, both within and without, will always try to force things down the darker paths, not just because it is 'reality' - it is a 'reality' of their own making because of their own personal whims.
Economy is outside of a government's total control. Public safety also depends on the mindset of the citizens if they're going to riot at every chance they get or will they help each other through times of crisis.

the dark path is always present, more if you are in a world with so many big empires.(you cant expect to make a good country with a idealist king..the conspiracies in your own house and other kingdoms interest are going to destroy you - the business world is dark dark place)

-all king have tyrant in their heart
- economy can be controlled till certain point and its actually the 1 reason of a war (the second is that you need to keep your peasants busy..to avoid the guillotine)
-public safety depend on a good economy, good security system and a intelligent control of the "important thing for the common person" - a well fed citizen is a happy citizen
*well, its always good to create popular protests , so the citizens can waste their energies - this include that you are going to fulfill some of their petitions*

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He doesn't care about stopping the white/black rukh thing. He doesn't care about anything at all. Judar himself said that Haku's just lashing out, remember? He's a hate machine who is just looking for excuses to kill more and more people. After killing Koen, he'll find more excuses to keep killing, until there's no one else to kill. At this point he's as bad as Al Tharmen, because what he really wants is to destroy everything. That's why Judar is on his side to begin with.

well..destiny itself is the top dog

and he is not crazy, just "differently sane", he have a twisted goals , yep, but his goal are: " guide this world to the right path" , "stop kouen" , "give back the dignity of the conquered cities" and he also want to destroy destiny (chapter 250, a lot of edginess though)

Alibaba would like to get Balbad from Koen's hands, but he won't do it if it means the people will suffer. Regardless of his methods, his intention is selfless. That's why he's good. Haku, on the other hand, is selfish to the core.

the issues is that balbadd citizen are suffering right now.
he is protecting a "bleeding balbadd",he think that by avoiding a war and becoming a governor he can watch for the people, when what the people need its to stop the caste system and slavery (some person in balbadd are slaves in far far aways countries.)

at the end, the future of balbadd depend on their citizen, Hakuryuu want to restore the dignity of the people(he have his own motives, but his goal are right), that mean that he is going to stop kouen policies..so, it depend on the citizens

Let me ask you guys then if if Hakuryuu takes Balbad from Kouen then would people think oh we are free lets go to our old king who abandoned us when we were slaves ? Alibaba is the wrong one in this arc since he choose to live without dignity and let his people live same way , on the other hand as bad as he is Hakuryuu didnt accepted that though he doesnt really care about it lol this is annoying .

nope
Hakuryuu would be called a "liberator", a leader that want to stop the abuses of a evil system/forces (edgy solomon)

a liberator gain "usually" king-like rights and , lets be honest, after siding with kouen, alibaba is going to called a traitor and be executed kicked out of that cities( history book are going to destoy his name... even worse than his brother names)

edgy king want to see cities without kouen ideology, so i expect good changes

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by noobita

And how about the rubbish who brought up the Balbad issue to Alibaba in this chapter again?

Based on your logic, next time if you want to commit suicide, your friend was trying to convince you not to commit suicide by bringing up your family relations issue ( your father would feel sad), would you considered him as manipulative as well?



And Balbadd would be better under the mental challenged Hakuryuu's rules? I don't know but it definitely doesn't sound fun when you can either have your will robbed from the djinn mind control or get killed on whim because Hakuryuu want to lick some bloods on one of those days. Sorry but Balbadd under Kouen's reign is 100x better than the bloodlusted king, and I don't remember that civilians got tortured by Kouen's rules. They just lost their identity but they can still live like normal day without worried being killed.

At least make a better comparison lol. I don't know if I should take that seriously. No, Balbadd won't necessarilly be better. But that's not the the point of the latest chapter. As much as you like Alibabba for his virtue, he's not that righteous. He's just being called out upon his own hypocrisy.

A lot of people are agreeing that Hakuryuu underwent mental change, but most people are willing to acknowledge that Hakuryuu holds valid points; wether your morals alow that or not.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

At least make a better comparison lol. I don't know if I should take that seriously. No, Balbadd won't necessarilly be better. But that's not the the point of the latest chapter. As much as you like Alibabba for his virtue, he's not that righteous. He's just being called out upon his own hypocrisy.

A lot of people are agreeing that Hakuryuu underwent mental change, but most people are willing to acknowledge that Hakuryuu holds valid points; wether your morals alow that or not.

What valid point? I only see an insanity and hypocrisy in that kid.

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by noobita

What valid point? I only see an insanity and hypocrisy in that kid.

I find it peculiar that you are able to overlook Alibabba's hypocrisy but not Hakuryuu's hypocrisy, whilst the former doesn't even realise he is hypocritical and the latter doesn't even try to deny it.

You also forget that Hakuryuu chose this path because he wouldn't be able to live, conforming himself to Alibabba's set of values. Not all people see things the same way and it's rather fishy that Alibabba and Aladdin never acknowledge the ways of others yet always paint their ways as the absolute good (especially Aladdin).

I argued that Kouen and the others didn't know about Gyokuen's evils when they accepted their power. As much as I deplore it, they still accepted it so they still have a part of the accountability. And even then, given that Kouen is as trustworthy as Sinbad (ofc Sinbad is less bloodier in his ways but that's not the point), it's not weird for Hakuryuu (who prior to the discovery of Kouen's attempt to control him already didn't see eye to eye with him) to distrust Kouen so openly. After all, who is to say that if Hakuryuu stepped down after killing Gyokuen, Kouen wouldn't deal with him one way or another? He is willing to set a kingdom a blaze for his own survival. Ever since Hakuryuu discovered what Kouen did to him, all small hopes of them ever patching up and being good allies or even family alreay died. One way or another, one of them will have to die.

You don't understand why Hakuryuu specifically says "you can understand when people in front of you are the most vulnerable". Alibabba plays on people
le's vulnerabilities in a similar way to Sinbad (what's even funnier is that Sinbad is doing it purposely whilst Alibabba seem to do it almost instinctively). The way Alibabba approaches people with goodwill to lower their guard is rather dishonest and backward. He purposely hits where it hurts to make an argument, but he isn't honest about it. Hakuryuu is right to say that it doesn't matter how he feels as it's for the sake of the world or for the sake of Baldad. He didn't come to a friend just to catch up, and Hakuryuu saw through that. Alibabba is incapable of acknowledging that he might not be the only one who is right on certain matters.

Everyone shoukd be allowed to think and feel their own way.

[arthand]

After these chapters i think its a possibility that Hakuryuus sister is mind controlled by Kouen , i mean she doesnt seem like a person who will accept slavery but she is helping Kouens cause which will is practically enslaving world . I guess she wasnt as nice as we thought she is , first impressions can be decieving .

[Tempest35]

Before I call for your blood, arthand, I assume you're accusing Hakuei of supporting slavery 'by association' of being with Kouen? ... tread carefully.

~*~

Everyone should be allowed to think and feel their own way.

Generally speaking, it is an innate privilege giving to all humans. But there is the faction of a fraction that, unfortunately, it has to be take away from. Thinking about something strongly and feeling about it strongly will eventually lead to action. And there is a certain group that should not be allowed to take action because it completely disregards other human beings to do exactly the same thing.

Making a few good points doesn't validate anyone's argument and it certainly doesn't validate Hakuryuu to call out Alibaba - he could call out ANYONE and the argument would stick because that's the kind of world they live in. That's like faulting someone for breathing. Alibaba's come up with that argument strategy because he's lived in the slums and in the Palace.

[arthand]

I would actually totally support Hakuryuu if he didnt mind raped people , you may not know but one of my favorite anime is Gun X Sword which main character gets his revenge against the all odds etc... so i am totally ok for revenge if its done the right way . For now i support Hakuryuu for revenge but he shouldnt be a king or lets say he isnt suited for it since he only thinks about himself , kings should put their egos aside and think about their people .

On the other side even tough Alibaba seems he can be a good king while he is not since he doesnt care about others . Alibaba doesnt give a rats ass about people of Balbad it doesnt matter for him if they are slaves or not as long as he doesnt dirty his hands , the way i see it Alibaba is only using Al Thamen to escape the harsh reality . Alibaba should notice that he lost his kingdom , his people are enslaved etc... you cant ignore that with talking about good of the world since world is worthless if not people on it .

In the end Hakuryuu sees the problem and acts but he actually only wants to take revenge while Alibaba sees the problem and ignores since reality is harsh . Its actually funny that Hakuryuus sister is also exactly like Alibaba since she doesnt see Kouens brutal side at all , anyway uniting world is impossible to begin with like Hakuryuu pointed it out , at least with Hakuryuus ways .