Eden of the East - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[achirist]

Saki really annoyed me, with her stupid betrayal and lies. If she wants to know what the phone is and what is going on with Akira, then she should ask, then she should have brought it up directly when he woke up. Otherwise, if apparently she no longer respects his privacy, than she should go away. It seems there is another meaning to some people here calling Saki's friends the 'scooby gang,' since they pull off this stupid deception. Starting a buisness relationship or a romantic one with lies and double-plays poisons the whole thing. If it is really a deal breaker after he went so far out of his way to help them and save Ohsugi's life, then they should say so and move on!

And what a prejudiced idiot Ohsugi is; as if those people on the internet couldn't just be confusing Akira with someone else (morita!), and as if, further, they couldn't just have been trolling him, saying a bunch of random names after seeing the first five or six. And his childish exclamation of "oh no, a criminal!" was just ridiculous. I don't wish he had been the victim of that fool, but he certainly needs to get a life.

And yes, I agree that Eden can be quite dangerous; it could make governments or otherwise able to monitor people's every action in a vividly sophisticated, searchable system through rudimentary cameras; I'm sure Bush or China's government would just love to have it in their hands and destroy privacy forever.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

For some enjoyable fangirling over Saki and Akira -- and some controlled negativity toward Oosugi -- check out the Hey, Say, Anime blog. The negativity toward Oosugi is a lot more under control than in some of the comments to Random Curiosity's post.

yura` expresses my feelings exactly: each episode raises as many questions as it answers, and there's always too long a wait before the next episode, lol.

Controlled negativity? Where? That whole list of "I do not hate" is clearly highlighting why the author thinks Oosugi should bow down and kiss Akira's ass. The comments section is a better example of controlled criticism to be honest.

And she clearly says it's a fangirling site so anyone looking for layered character analysis might want to steer clear.

[RisArk]

LOL, so I wasn't the only one. Seriously, half of the pic comments are "Forget the whole situation. Just look at these two! Don't they make a cute couple?!~"

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by RisArk

LOL, so I wasn't the only one. Seriously, half of the pic comments are "Forget the whole situation. Just look at these two! Don't they make a cute couple?!~"

I don't know. I think it's great that this show can get that kind of reactions from some of its female viewers. It says a lot about its cross-gender appeal.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by golthin

in which way? Eden is like a search engine, but it is more advanced because instead of words uses images. Since when being able to access information is dangerous?

Since the whole concept of privacy has been invented.

Apart from that I think you should realize that if your question was taken literally, even someone that reads your mail and sees your passwords as you digit them is accessing information. However such kind of information shouldn't be accessed.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Since the whole concept of privacy has been invented.

Apart from that I think you should realize that if your question was taken literally, even someone that reads your mail and sees your passwords as you digit them is accessing information. However such kind of information shouldn't be accessed.

Eden is presumably a public service that requires that someone first post that private information to the system. If your passwords and e-mail make it onto one of Eden's data sources in the first place, you have bigger issues.

(Tangent: It's highly unlikely that all of the information we see during the show was manually entered by Eden's users. Eden probably plugs in to various sources like Wikipedia, a university's public student/faculty directory, Flickr tags... you get the idea.)

[Raiga]

Originally Posted by fish eric

I wonder what the deal is with this show and the word "Johnny" Oushugi says Im gonna grab Takizawa by his Johnny (gay)

I think that was a subber's joke... I listened closely and didn't hear "Johnny" at all, although I did hear what sounded like "shippo de tsukande yaru" (grab by the tail) which is probably where they got that from.

Speaking of which, is it just me or was at least one text translation really off in gg's subs? I dunno how it happened because other, much more complicated blocks of text seemed perfectly translated, but what stuck out to me was when they translated a blurb on Oosugi's cell as "Takizawa Akira"... first red flag being that there were four kanji, whereas Akira's name is only three, and while the second kanji looks similar to the "zawa" in "Takizawa," it's got the hand radical instead of the water radical, and the other kanji look nothing like the rest of his name.

I went and looked up the kanji and the caption actually reads "selected picture" (選択画像). Odd. '_'

[golthin]

Originally Posted by vaden

Eden is presumably a public service that requires that someone first post that private information to the system. If your passwords and e-mail make it onto one of Eden's data sources in the first place, you have bigger issues.

(Tangent: It's highly unlikely that all of the information we see during the show was manually entered by Eden's users. Eden probably plugs in to various sources like Wikipedia, a university's public student/faculty directory, Flickr tags... you get the idea.)

any medium that provide information by his defination of "dangerous" would have to be abolished.
It is not the information resource that has to guard the privacy but the person itself. Should we abolish TV,Radio, The internet, News papers and any other form of media to protect peoples privacy?

[Tale]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Saki is hard to understand. Neither her sister nor brother in law really understands her. How open has she been to Oosugi? I guess not much. Besides, I don't know how much Akira understand Saki. Lots of time it is more like that Akira's charisma and Saki's infatuation with her prince are playing the dominant role.

Yes, even for Japanese standard, I think she is rather reserved especially as a heroine. The catch of her role is "mimamotta", or observed/watched, which means she seems to stay inactive through all the show. I'm wondering if this is calculated or not.

Originally Posted by RisArk

LOL, so I wasn't the only one. Seriously, half of the pic comments are "Forget the whole situation. Just look at these two! Don't they make a cute couple?!~"

I believe romance is one of the possible entrances of this work. Saki may not be that clever but I think her sensitivity is keen, which may let her more accessible by ordinary young girls. This is, at least, a possible reason I can come up with about why she should be so passive.

IMO, all characters are interesting in their own ways and this gives me feel of thought experiments about how character developments and plot would work, which characterizes works by Kamiyama. Personally, I think he is one of more intellectual creators in anime industry, which, I think, disparately need this type of creators.

I became inclined to believe one of the possible themes of the show is accepting the others. For I feel quite many NEETs and/or Anime otaku have a problem at communicating with the others and that one of their core problems is that they expect themselves accepted before they try to accept the others. If they feel that they are not accepted by society, why not try to start with themselves? I don't like this work to become a type of sermon since one-sided communication is not proper to the possible theme and, if I were the creators, I'd like the audiences to get their own answers through the work.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by golthin

any medium that provide information by his defination of "dangerous" would have to be abolished.
It is not the information resource that has to guard the privacy but the person itself. Should we abolish TV,Radio, The internet, News papers and any other form of media to protect peoples privacy?

This is hardly an argument since you ignore both the degree of intrusion into your private sphere (you normally won't find your picture with private information in your daily newspaper) as well as the whole palette of possible reactions (i.e. regulating content instead of outright "abolishing" media).

I find this system dangerous too. But it will become reality soon enough I fear.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by vaden

Eden is presumably a public service that requires that someone first post that private information to the system. If your passwords and e-mail make it onto one of Eden's data sources in the first place, you have bigger issues.

(Tangent: It's highly unlikely that all of the information we see during the show was manually entered by Eden's users. Eden probably plugs in to various sources like Wikipedia, a university's public student/faculty directory, Flickr tags... you get the idea.)

My statements aren't exactly all related, If i say "apart from that" there's a reason.
I was replying to a particular sentence about information in general and not the Eden system itself. "access to information": if you do not specify what kind of information, it can be considered dangerous.
When we agree that not all the informations should be availabe to everyone then we can proceed to the next point: So which are the informations that should be available and which should be restricted?

This is a problem that is still debated and is bound to change over time. But the point is not that the Eden system is objectively intrusive or not. The point is that if such a system should exist and if it was used so freely as in this anime it would certainly cause an uproar.

You probably all know that the main fear of those who oppose the "big brother" is that one day everyone will have a chip implanted in their body. Well technically speaking the Eden system makes such idea obsolete. There isn't even any need of a chip, the very same appearance of a person is tied to data, so just by pointing a camera you can access any kind of information about a person and not only authorities can do that but even a perfect nobody.

Originally Posted by golthin

any medium that provide information by his defination of "dangerous" would have to be abolished.
It is not the information resource that has to guard the privacy but the person itself. Should we abolish TV,Radio, The internet, News papers and any other form of media to protect peoples privacy?

You are going from one extreme to another. It's either all information available to everyone or no information at all? I don't think so. If the Eden system can be considered dangerous it's not because it can give access to information in a general sense, but because of the kind of informations it can provide. The mass media you mentioned cannot feed you with live information about every thing and person that surrounds you. They cannot "spy" you.
Well actually internet can, but that's considered a very big problem and it's only limited to computers not people in the real world

[vaden]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

... the point is not that the Eden system is objectively intrusive or not. The point is that if such a system should exist and if it was used so freely as in this anime it would certainly cause an uproar.

Indeed it would, and I'm disappointed that EOTE's apparently just a plot device, since there are plenty of questions circulating now about consolidation of information in such a fashion. I think this has already come up with things like traffic light cameras, which are automated enough to be useful for tracking a vehicle's travel across a city (license plates are a lot less complicated than faces, of course).

[~BC~]

No doubt there are pros and cons to the Eden system. This whole discussion on free access to information is probably why Hirasawa is so hell bent on creating a company. They could profit off of it but at the same time regulate it's uses.

[Sun Shine]

Originally Posted by golthin

in which way? Eden is like a search engine, but it is more advanced because instead of words uses images. Since when being able to access information is dangerous?

The invasion into someone's privacy with it is far too great. The cons and negatives far out way the positives. There is countless possibilities of misuing the system for wrong doing. I'm sure stalkers would love it anyways.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by achirist

Saki really annoyed me, with her stupid betrayal and lies. If she wants to know what the phone is and what is going on with Akira, then she should ask, then she should have brought it up directly when he woke up. Otherwise, if apparently she no longer respects his privacy, than she should go away. It seems there is another meaning to some people here calling Saki's friends the 'scooby gang,' since they pull off this stupid deception. Starting a buisness relationship or a romantic one with lies and double-plays poisons the whole thing. If it is really a deal breaker after he went so far out of his way to help them and save Ohsugi's life, then they should say so and move on!

You've failed to realise that Akira has been lying to Saki since episode 1 and Saki just realised this.

She opened up to Akira completely and let out her deepest secrets, believing that she could trust her and Akira reassured her of that. Then she finds out that Akira has been holding back? That's gotta hurt.

[~BC~]

It also doesn't hurt to remember that she hasn't even known him for a week. She's not really in a position to be demanding answers. I'm glad that at least she seems willing to step back and re-evaluate. A more stereotypical anime would have her vehemently denying the possibility of anything being suspicious about Akira.

[paradox13]

why is this anime so good?

[izmosmolnar]

Originally Posted by paradox13

why is this anime so good?

Well probably "to each of his own", but I really like the intrigue and the mystery, the show provide.

It is clearly trying to be more, than just another lighthearted moe/highschool/harem show, and it mainly focuses on two things instead:
-the romance aspect to mainly attract the female viewers (just take a look around the blogosphere, it is insanely popular among female bloggers)
-and the mystery aspect to attract the male fans too. (and obviously one can enjoy both too )
Additionally IMO the animation is one of the best ever produced in an anime up to the current date; the characters are mostly likable ("Different strokes for different folks" again); and the main-plot is quite interesting.
Plus it also combines science fiction elements (I'd count Juiz system here, since I doubt I'm going to see such a complicated feature in my life); the main plot tries to answer some of the current realistic problems in the real world (the problem with NEETs); and there's some moe appeal for those interested.

I'm definitely going to buy the DVD and the movie, since the show definitely allowed me to enjoyably spend several hours watching it, discussing it here, and coming up with theories.

[elindir]

Originally Posted by paradox13

why is this anime so good?

It's a big surpirse for me, actually, I never thought that this will be one of the shows that I'm interested in the most. I like the whole atmosphere and the plot so far.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Haak

You've failed to realise that Akira has been lying to Saki since episode 1 and Saki just realised this.

She opened up to Akira completely and let out her deepest secrets, believing that she could trust her and Akira reassured her of that. Then she finds out that Akira has been holding back? That's gotta hurt.

i wouldn't call what Akira is doing Lying, more like he is not sharing ALL the information, at least the scary one. He has not shared the things about selacao, about what would happen if he doesn't win and uses all his money, that two of the other players already were eliminated.
If he told the gang this information, there is a good chance they wouldn't help him. So he is being selfish and is endengering all this people in order to find his past.