[GS/GSD]coordinators and naturals

[dreamless]

I think most coordinators are modified with the same technology to get them "genetically equally good" at everything, Kira is just born from artificial womb so there's zero outside contaminations thus he can be the perfect model of what is intended, instead of getting the genes "contaminated" by a natural mother. Thus he is the "ultimate coordinator" meaning his genes are all born perfectly as what they are being engineered.

So even for coordinators things like education and personal interests and things are still as important as, if not more so than, born talents, just like naturals.

I'm pretty sure the modified genes does not set the personal interests for Athrun, Nichol or Kira, so that fact that Athrun excels at electronic engineering, Nichol excels at playing piano and Kira excels at programming and hacking is not decided by their modified genes, and Athrun/Kira being the "best" coordinators doesn't mean they excel at everything. Athrun sucks at singing and dancing I think.

[eMpTy265]

Originally Posted by dreamless

Athrun sucks at singing and dancing I think.

ROFL.

Kind of ironic that Athrun was first stuck with the first Lacus (who sings), and now Mia (who dances?)

Guess the only time he gets a break is when he's with Cagalli.


Damn, I wish ep.10 would come out soon.
(The preview is screaming FFX2 at me, and it's GODDAM irritating. )

[Scherazade]

Originally Posted by dreamless

So even for coordinators things like education and personal interests and things are still as important as, if not more so than, born talents, just like naturals.

I'm pretty sure the modified genes does not set the personal interests for Athrun, Nichol or Kira, so that fact that Athrun excels at electronic engineering, Nichol excels at playing piano and Kira excels at programming and hacking is not decided by their modified genes, and Athrun/Kira being the "best" coordinators doesn't mean they excel at everything. Athrun sucks at singing and dancing I think.

Agreed, if a coordinator doesn't study math ever, then that coordinator will not know that 2 + 2 = 4. THey are guided by their interest just like naturals. That's a point that most people miss, I'm glad you pointed it out.

Athrun sucks at singing and dancing I think

Interesting comment considering your avatar ~_^.

[FlyByNite]

Originally Posted by dreamless

Athrun sucks at singing and dancing I think.

Well Athrun's VA sung in Genshiken and was really really bad...Although the character was supposed to be bad too, so who knows...

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by dreamless

I think most coordinators are modified with the same technology to get them "genetically equally good" at everything, Kira is just born from artificial womb so there's zero outside contaminations thus he can be the perfect model of what is intended, instead of getting the genes "contaminated" by a natural mother. Thus he is the "ultimate coordinator" meaning his genes are all born perfectly as what they are being engineered.

So even for coordinators things like education and personal interests and things are still as important as, if not more so than, born talents, just like naturals.

I'm pretty sure the modified genes does not set the personal interests for Athrun, Nichol or Kira, so that fact that Athrun excels at electronic engineering, Nichol excels at playing piano and Kira excels at programming and hacking is not decided by their modified genes, and Athrun/Kira being the "best" coordinators doesn't mean they excel at everything. Athrun sucks at singing and dancing I think.

That's true about the interest thing, but I think our talents are a big part of drive our interests and careers. Kira's programming skills aren't a direct result of genetic modification, but I think it's safe to say that his reasoning, ability to quickly come up with algorithms comes from an inherit ability to do mathematics...i.e. counting in his head, remembering processes. And that is a result of your genetic makeup. Practice does play a big role, as we can remember that Kira had a lot of practice studying in the Heliopolis Morganraete facility.

About the artificial womb, that's all BS. I don't know where the hell they came up with that idea. Your mother cannot "contaminate your genes." Your genetic makeup comes from whatever was in the sperm and whatever was in the egg. Once you're a zygote and you begin to grow, you cannot further manipulate your genes without doing serious damage. Your genes cannot be contaminated by anything but viruses (which cleave their DNA into their hosts...then kill the cell that they infect, so this is a non-issue).

Miscarriages are a result of the environment, and not genetic makeup. If a woman fails to make an appropriate placenta or has too small a uterus or just happens to release the wrong horomones at any given time. If she smokes, if she drinks, if she gets anesthetic for whatever reason. Granted, some of these things are out of control, and so Hibiki could use an artificial machine, but an artificial womb is bad for these reasons:

1) Mechanical failure would result in almost certain death while a human mother's natural body responses can adjust to fit any unanticipated problems (more than a machine ever could)

2) The baby's time in the womb increases its immune ability since whatever anitbodies the mother, many are passed on to the baby.

3) A person's psyche begins in the womb. By the time the baby is born, she already knows her mother's voice and is familiar with the sound of her mother's beating heart. That's why babies calm down when they're held by their mothers.

There are a lot more, but I have an exam in 20 minutes. I seem to remember going on this rant before. Anyway, an artificial womb's only benefit would be that there would be no miscarriage.

And whatever advantages that coordinators have shouldn't be THAT disparate from what naturals can accomplish. I think I explained why before but...

[Scherazade]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

That's true about the interest thing, but I think our talents are a big part of drive our interests and careers. Kira's programming skills aren't a direct result of genetic modification, but I think it's safe to say that his reasoning, ability to quickly come up with algorithms comes from an inherit ability to do mathematics...i.e. counting in his head, remembering processes. And that is a result of your genetic makeup. Practice does play a big role, as we can remember that Kira had a lot of practice studying in the Heliopolis Morganraete facility.

About the artificial womb, that's all BS. I don't know where the hell they came up with that idea. Your mother cannot "contaminate your genes." Your genetic makeup comes from whatever was in the sperm and whatever was in the egg. Once you're a zygote and you begin to grow, you cannot further manipulate your genes without doing serious damage. Your genes cannot be contaminated by anything but viruses (which cleave their DNA into their hosts...then kill the cell that they infect, so this is a non-issue).

Miscarriages are a result of the environment, and not genetic makeup. If a woman fails to make an appropriate placenta or has too small a uterus or just happens to release the wrong horomones at any given time. If she smokes, if she drinks, if she gets anesthetic for whatever reason. Granted, some of these things are out of control, and so Hibiki could use an artificial machine, but an artificial womb is bad for these reasons:

1) Mechanical failure would result in almost certain death while a human mother's natural body responses can adjust to fit any unanticipated problems (more than a machine ever could)

2) The baby's time in the womb increases its immune ability since whatever anitbodies the mother, many are passed on to the baby.

3) A person's psyche begins in the womb. By the time the baby is born, she already knows her mother's voice and is familiar with the sound of her mother's beating heart. That's why babies calm down when they're held by their mothers.

There are a lot more, but I have an exam in 20 minutes. I seem to remember going on this rant before. Anyway, an artificial womb's only benefit would be that there would be no miscarriage.

And whatever advantages that coordinators have shouldn't be THAT disparate from what naturals can accomplish. I think I explained why before but...

It's stated in SEED that even what the mother eats can affect the genetic modifications done to the embryo. As such, coordinators born from natural parents had traits that weren't planned out during the manipulation process. Such as different eye color and such. Dr. Hibiki devised the iron womb as a means to ensure that the environment that the embyro develops in is perfect and the genetic modifications do not mutate.

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by Scherazade

It's stated in SEED that even what the mother eats can affect the genetic modifications done to the embryo. As such, coordinators born from natural parents had traits that weren't planned out during the manipulation process. Such as different eye color and such. Dr. Hibiki devised the iron womb as a means to ensure that the environment that the embyro develops in is perfect and the genetic modifications do not mutate.

What I'm saying is that's not true. What a mother eats only determines the nutrition of the baby. It has NOTHING to do with the baby's genetic make up.

[ZeusIrae]

There isn't any genetic modification during pregnancy.But the environment has an influence on their expression.I am almost sure about that.The DNA don't change,.
You're the result of genetics and the influence of the environment during and after pregnancy(your brain continue to evolve after you're born).
Mutation occur sometimes but it has nothing to do with the mother.

edit:kikko was quicker than me

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

What I'm saying is that's not true. What a mother eats only determines the nutrition of the baby. It has NOTHING to do with the baby's genetic make up.

in terms of real world biology, yes you are absolutely right, however since we are talking about SEED and the "ultimate coordinator" concept in it, we'll have to base it on what's told by the anime

[Scherazade]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

What I'm saying is that's not true. What a mother eats only determines the nutrition of the baby. It has NOTHING to do with the baby's genetic make up.

We're talking in terms of fictional genetic manipulation. This is a story where giant robots are used for combat and you're going to be a stickler for what's said about another process that doesn't exist in real life?

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by Scherazade

We're talking in terms of fictional genetic manipulation. This is a story where giant robots are used for combat and you're going to be a stickler for what's said about another process that doesn't exist in real life?

I understand it's a show, but its premise is on a very controversial subject. If you're gonna have a show about something as serious as genetic manipulation, cloning, and that sort of deal, you have a responsibility to be accurate about it. Wether or not giant robots can fly or whatever is fantasy... but to in essence design life is a whole different ballpark.

Wether or not you realize it, it IS a sensitive issue. Most people who watch this show aren't going to go ahead and take a cellular physiology course. They're gonna take what they see at face value. I think that's a dangerous thing.

[haunterex]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

I understand it's a show, but its premise is on a very controversial subject. If you're gonna have a show about something as serious as genetic manipulation, cloning, and that sort of deal, you have a responsibility to be accurate about it. Wether or not giant robots can fly or whatever is fantasy... but to in essence design life is a whole different ballpark.

Wether or not you realize it, it IS a sensitive issue. Most people who watch this show aren't going to go ahead and take a cellular physiology course. They're gonna take what they see at face value. I think that's a dangerous thing.

it's only a controversial subject because of the lack of understanding by the general population and worsen by the policies set by politicans due to power struggles to maintain their position and support from the ignorant sheeps of their countries.

[ryogax]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

I understand it's a show, but its premise is on a very controversial subject. If you're gonna have a show about something as serious as genetic manipulation, cloning, and that sort of deal, you have a responsibility to be accurate about it. Wether or not giant robots can fly or whatever is fantasy... but to in essence design life is a whole different ballpark.

Wether or not you realize it, it IS a sensitive issue. Most people who watch this show aren't going to go ahead and take a cellular physiology course. They're gonna take what they see at face value. I think that's a dangerous thing.

First off all in the SHOW no one has mentioned that genetic makeup of the baby change during pregrancy because of the mother.

In fact I haven o fucking idea where you all get this.

I have watch the entire show and never seen this shit.

All it says there is that the baby's development can be affected by the mother.
For instance...if the mother smoke crack during pregnancy..chances are the baby will be a crack addict, or if the mother is constantly depress or eating unhealty food the baby might become malnorish and underdevelop, or worst suffering from some brain problem..The genetic modification wont matter in this case since the baby will still have problems.

So you can see..The mother does affect the baby.
So even if you genetically modified the embryo its development and how succesfull the genetic modification will still be affected by the mothers condition..

This is why they developed the artificial womb....OK THATS MY TAKE ON THE SUBJECT.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by kikko_s

I understand it's a show, but its premise is on a very controversial subject. If you're gonna have a show about something as serious as genetic manipulation, cloning, and that sort of deal, you have a responsibility to be accurate about it. Wether or not giant robots can fly or whatever is fantasy... but to in essence design life is a whole different ballpark.

Wether or not you realize it, it IS a sensitive issue. Most people who watch this show aren't going to go ahead and take a cellular physiology course. They're gonna take what they see at face value. I think that's a dangerous thing.

well, at least it is better than The 6th Day, on the matter of cloning that is...