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Old 2011-04-05, 16:36   Link #1501
winkel
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ADVs usually emphasize the choices and selection routes more, and you'll get more "visual" action via sprite and SFX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waffo View Post
Wow, I don't think I'd like having my text all over the background like that... Now I'm veering back towards Clannad...
Clannad isn't necessarily the only English ADV you could recommend... Kira Kira, Yume Miru Kusuri, My Girlfiend is the President!, Sharin no Kuni, Cross Channel, Wind -a breath of heart-, among others.

But oh dear, I think we've completely deviated from the topic at hand.
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Old 2011-04-05, 18:30   Link #1502
VDZ
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I think I need to correct some people here, since people seem confused and misinformed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
The only reason I'm against recommending Higurashi or Planetarian is because they're visual novels, and not ADVs like Ever 17, so if you want to introduce him to an ADV, they'd be not representative of that at all. But if you want to introduce him to visual novels, then it's fine.
Ever17 is a VN AND an ADV. The word you're looking for is kinetic novel/sound novel.

Visual Novel
Term generally used to refer to all ADV/NVL games, although some people insist that the term 'visual novel' doesn't apply to Sound Novels. In the English-speaking community, however, it's almost exclusively used to refer to the genre as a whole.
Examples: Everything.

Kinetic Novel
A visual novel without choices or routes.
Examples: Planetarian, Narcissu

Sound Novel
A kinetic novel with emphasis on sound. (Some people ridicule the term, saying it's just an excuse for bad graphics.)
Examples: Higurashi, Umineko

ADV (name comes from 'adventure')
A game where all text is presented in a text box, usually at the bottom of the screen. The rest of the screen is filled with graphical elements, putting more focus on the visuals.
Examples: Clannad, most of Ever17, Planetarian, Narcissu


NVL (name comes from 'novel')
A game where the text is overlaid on the entire screen. Most of the screen is used for text, and visual elements are present only in the background.
Examples: Higurashi, the explanations in Ever17, Tsukihime, Fate/stay night


As said before, the two formats have slight differences in writing style. In NVL-style, you can fill an entire screen with text, whereas in ADV, you're limited to two to four lines per screen. However, ADV games usually have speaker tags, allowing for easier dialogue without having to worry about whether your audience will understand who's speaking at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winkel View Post
ADVs usually emphasize the choices and selection routes more, and you'll get more "visual" action via sprite and SFX.


Clannad isn't necessarily the only English ADV you could recommend... Kira Kira, Yume Miru Kusuri, My Girlfiend is the President!, Sharin no Kuni, Cross Channel, Wind -a breath of heart-, among others.
NVLs can have as much emphasis on choices and routes as ADVs, it all depends on the work. G-Senjou no Maou (ADV) doesn't have all that many choices, and at the same time games like Fate/stay night and ToHeart2 (both NVL) have plenty of choices.

Also, Kira Kira is NVL, not ADV.

To return to the topic we were discussing; while I agree that Higurashi is a good VN, it's not a good example of a "typical VN". It doesn't have choices, it's NVL, takes a while to truly get interesting (might as well have him play Ever17 right off the bat), and the subject material is rather unique (there are no other translated works like it, only Umineko comes close). Like with Clannad, each episode isn't all that long (compared to a full VN) and tells a full story, but Higurashi isn't "finished" with ep1. The story in a Clannad route is completely "finished" when you've finished reading the route, but Higurashi ep1 simply ends with a 'what the fuck just happened?!'. It's awesome, but it feels incomplete if you don't read the rest of it...and all of Higurashi combined is 2.5 times the size of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, way longer than all of Clannad.

Last edited by VDZ; 2011-04-06 at 14:36. Reason: Gah, vndb doesn't allow hotlinking, didn't notice
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Old 2011-04-06, 00:17   Link #1503
waffo
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Wow, I feel like I just started a giant lecture here.
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Old 2011-04-06, 13:17   Link #1504
Tyabann
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Honestly, I feel that the best games are ones that switch between ADV and NVL depending on the scene.


Just my two cents.
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Old 2011-04-06, 13:47   Link #1505
GundamAce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Honestly, I feel that the best games are ones that switch between ADV and NVL depending on the scene.


Just my two cents.
Like Ever17?
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Old 2011-04-06, 16:13   Link #1506
chaos_alfa
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I like NVL's more because you don't have to move your eye up and down constantly to see the character's change in emotion.
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Old 2011-04-06, 16:49   Link #1507
Jao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
I like NVL's more because you don't have to move your eye up and down constantly to see the character's change in emotion.
How on earth do you watch subbed anime?
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Old 2011-04-06, 20:01   Link #1508
Polarem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffo View Post
Wow, I feel like I just started a giant lecture here.
An informative lecture, so it's all good. I learnt stuff from reading through all of that!
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Old 2011-04-06, 23:24   Link #1509
LostHanyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VDZ View Post
Takeshi, like Kid, has two routes: Tsugumi and Sora. Unlike Kid's routes, though, both of Takeshi's routes share a common bad end which you get if you're too indecisive about one or the other.
Just saying it in advance so you don't get confused if you hit the bad end.
Should've paid attention to this advise and ignored Sora... Think I messed up at the infirmary when she asked me to speak with her outside. D:

That was a pretty surprising bad end, though, considering I actually got this one without intending to, and it was fairly... Erm, violent?

Think the third eye is going to have a bigger part later. I have a semi-theory about that but it's probably wrong.
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Old 2011-04-06, 23:28   Link #1510
GundamAce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostHanyou View Post
Should've paid attention to this advise and ignored Sora... Think I messed up at the infirmary when she asked me to speak with her outside. D:

That was a pretty surprising bad end, though, considering I actually got this one without intending to, and it was fairly... Erm, violent?

Think the third eye is going to have a bigger part later. I have a semi-theory about that but it's probably wrong.
Try focusing strictly on Tsugumi for now. Sora's route is widely considered to be the worst in the game (a view I agree with), so you may as well do that last.
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Old 2011-04-06, 23:30   Link #1511
Jao
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Independently it's great. As a part of Ever17 it's not.
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Old 2011-04-06, 23:37   Link #1512
winkel
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Agreed, I loved Sora's route (probably my second favorite) but it breaks so much when you try to put it back in with Ever 17's world and continuity.
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Old 2011-04-07, 04:21   Link #1513
chaos_alfa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jao View Post
How on earth do you watch subbed anime?
Good question...

In visual novels the characters change emotion much more rapidly than in an anime.

NVL over ADV is what I prefer, not that I'm annoyed if a visual novel appearers to be an ADV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamAce View Post
Try focusing strictly on Tsugumi for now. Sora's route is widely considered to be the worst in the game (a view I agree with), so you may as well do that last.
I would recommend to the it the other way around. First Sora then Tsugumi

Leave the best for last.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2011-04-07 at 05:18.
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Old 2011-04-07, 06:13   Link #1514
tienlv2011
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Oh, whoops, didn't know that, sorry. So you've put up a Coco's birthday thread there as well? Knowing you, I'm not surprised, lol.
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Old 2011-04-19, 04:28   Link #1515
Soliloquy
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After finishing Ever17, Let me be honest, I didn't like it that much and thought it was nothing special. Perhaps, reading all the commotion from those who played, I had a very high expectation. Since I only played it once, I barely scratched the surface of the story however I have to give it a credit for a story quite elaborate and detailed. Reading all the mumbo jumbos about wherever that place was a bit of a chore. Still I can see there were a hell lot of effort put into making this.

I couldn't care less about the characters. It's a bit disappointing to find out that you have to follow around Tsugumi pretty much every time. Anyways, I guess I don't care much for Tsundere nor VN. Out of all the characters, I guess I only liked one.

As an audiophile, I'd say the music was quite fitting. It really gave sense of claustrophobia and tension. The events were well done while I admit there were some scenes that I didn't like and the choices you were given were limited at times, you can't have everything.

When I finished it, I got a bad ending. I looked on the FAQ to see what choice I selected wrong. It was disappointing, I made the wrong choice at almost the end.
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Old 2011-04-19, 04:57   Link #1516
Polarem
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It sounds like you reached one of the many "side endings" in the game. One of Ever17's "weaknesses" is that the journey is very long, but not always eventful; you need to find the good ending for every character first, before you can see the magnificence of the story... but I Think getting there is worth it.

I recommend you to keep trying; I'm sure your expectation will be met when the time comes

Do you like solving puzzles? If so, try to notice and figure out the "inconsistencies" in the game; that's a big part of the fun.

Out of curiosity, whose ending did you get, and which character do you like?
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Old 2011-04-19, 05:03   Link #1517
Klashikari
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This may sound like a weird question, but when you said you "finished it", do you mean the complete game (with all routes: Tsugumi - Sora - You - Sara - Coco), or only once?

The way you worded your impressions make me think you barely did once, despite everything prior coco's route is just an appetizer so heh.
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Old 2011-04-19, 08:16   Link #1518
VDZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
After finishing Ever17, Let me be honest, I didn't like it that much and thought it was nothing special. Perhaps, reading all the commotion from those who played, I had a very high expectation. Since I only played it once, I barely scratched the surface of the story however I have to give it a credit for a story quite elaborate and detailed. Reading all the mumbo jumbos about wherever that place was a bit of a chore. Still I can see there were a hell lot of effort put into making this.

I couldn't care less about the characters. It's a bit disappointing to find out that you have to follow around Tsugumi pretty much every time. Anyways, I guess I don't care much for Tsundere nor VN. Out of all the characters, I guess I only liked one.

As an audiophile, I'd say the music was quite fitting. It really gave sense of claustrophobia and tension. The events were well done while I admit there were some scenes that I didn't like and the choices you were given were limited at times, you can't have everything.

When I finished it, I got a bad ending. I looked on the FAQ to see what choice I selected wrong. It was disappointing, I made the wrong choice at almost the end.
Like the others have already said, you won't enjoy Ever17 nearly as much if you only play one route (and not even to completion, you got a bad end). Judging Ever17 by one route would be like judging an entire anime series by one episode.

The five routes (Takeshi -> Tsugumi, Takeshi -> Sora, Kid -> Sara, Kid -> You, then the unlockable final Coco route, which you get by reading the other good endings first) are all part of a bigger story. Each route gives you additional hints about the main plot; however, the hints given as you play the entire game are confusing, as they don't seem to fully match up. Then finally, in the Coco route, the game presents a BRILLIANT solution to all of the mysteries.

If you like mysteries, you really should read the rest of Ever17. Most VN players consider Coco's route to be the best VN route ever.

EDIT: Also, the 'following around Tsugumi' problem is a result of your choices. At the start, you get the choice of which protagonist you want to follow ("I've got to find my friends" = Takeshi, "Who am I?" = Kid). Takeshi's perspective has the Tsugumi and Sora routes, so you'll be around one or both of them for the entire route, depending on the choices. You got the bad end because you didn't focus enough on either of them (sticking with Tsugumi more leads to Tsugumi good end, sticking with Sora more leads to Sora good end).
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Old 2011-04-19, 20:50   Link #1519
winkel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclectic View Post
After finishing Ever17, Let me be honest, I didn't like it that much and thought it was nothing special[...]Since I only played it once, I barely scratched the surface of the story however I have to give it a credit for a story quite elaborate and detailed.
You denounce the story as nothing special, yet have only played it once? Are you sure you understood the hype behind this game properly? Do you even know why it's been rated and appraised so highly?

It's impossible to appreciate how amazing and complex this game is without going through the entire game which means going through every single path and getting all the routes.

You said you probably scratched the surface, that's an understatement. You might as well have said you never bothered to play the game, and that it's a horrible game simply because the cover is ugly, because that is about as much weight your disapproval of the game means to anyone right now.
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Old 2011-04-19, 21:33   Link #1520
Reckoner
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His frustration is understandable though, if he didn't finish the game. I myself was underwhelmed by the routes prior to Coco's.

The end experience is rewarding, but it definitely feels like a grind many times.
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