2012-09-06, 08:33 | Link #7841 |
User of the "Fast Draw"
|
Do think the lack of Terran Mech Anti-Air other than Thors (and I suppose Widow Mines) does allow marines to remain a staple of most armies unless someone just go Vikings.
Will be interesting to see what balance changes need to be made now that the units are being handed off onto the pro gamers. An interesting change just having the mines explode on contact now. No more seeing people singling out a unit and racing him out of the army, just boom! Surprised to see the Warhounds being so effective against Zerg. At least pretty efficient against Queens/Roaches. Though still seems like zerglings should be able to surround and deal with them pretty effectively.
__________________
|
2012-09-06, 09:20 | Link #7842 | |||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Goliaths were also suppose to combat heavy air units anyways and the Viking supports that role. And so far from what I've seen most players use 2-4 Thors in their armies backed up by marines to handle the mutas anyways. Quote:
Quote:
Banelings I wouldn't even think about it since they're only good against bio units so they shouldn't be able to wipe out warhounds that easily. |
|||
2012-09-06, 09:24 | Link #7843 | ||||
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Second is the absence of mines for board control. In WoL, it was a menace to deal with blink stalkers and warp prisms harass but with the prescence of widow mines (which instantly explode now!) terrans get a variation of spider mines back. This is going to make mech likely the a viable alternative against P now for particularly small or choke maps, whilst on big open maps marine/marauder/medivac/viking/ghost will still be used. Along with probably widow mines for board control (these things seriously rock now). And as for TvZ in general, with the exception of certain maps, be it BW or WoL right now, mech is not the standard composition TvZ since if Zerg finds out they can just outexpand you or do roach drops and since spider mines/widow mines aren't in the game, they are a bitch to control. Marine backbone supported by siege tanks, medivacs and then viking + raven/marauder in the lategame (depending if broodlords or ultras respectively) has been for BW and for WoL and will most likely be the standard composition in HoTs. Reason? Marines are stupid good against Zerg units overall and throughout the whole game. Mutalisks? Marines just laugh at them. Mutalisks are close to dead in the current metgame of TvZ usage unless Terran uses banshees. Thors are just bad units. They used to have a niche in TvZ during the muta/ling/bane era but good zergs would just magic box them and then lol. They needed marine support to be effective. Also the bloody things are so fat and slow and mutas were so fast so I question their value in their first place. Rather build moar siege tank for factory production time. Regardless, I think a lot of things will be changed during the beta. At the very least I'm foresseing a nerf to Tempest range (22 is stupid imo, siege tank has 13 in comparison) whilst a damage increase to compensate since they are rather pathetic in direct combat, a nerf to Swarm hosts since they are absolutley wrecking protosses atm (infested terrans were already strong, but now with swarm hosts you don't even need to trade energy, just trade cooldowns...) and a nerf to Warhounds ground damage (just give us goliaths ffs lol). Last edited by Pocari_Sweat; 2012-09-06 at 11:24. |
||||
2012-09-06, 12:05 | Link #7844 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NY, USA
Age: 33
|
Quote:
I'm not one of those people with complaints about not having the Goliath in, since I do prefer Thors, even in TvZ. Thors are really rare in Marine/Tank play nowadays though. However, they're amazing in Mech TvZ, as MVP demonstrated at IEM. 3/3 Thors can fight Brood Lords rather well and shred everything else. TvP is a non-issue for the most except for massed Tempests, which I happened to see on a stream. The Tempests just chewed through a Viking/Tank/Thor army while being supported by a few Stalkers and Templar. Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2012-09-06, 15:04 | Link #7845 | |||||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The problem with the Viking is that despite it's stats similar to a Golaith and doing similar DPS on the ground, it can fly so upgrading its armor and HP to a Goliath may make it OP. Perhaps they could do an armor upgrade research that would make it a tough unit on the ground? Quote:
|
|||||
2012-09-06, 15:23 | Link #7846 |
Underweight Food Hoarder
|
What's strange is that with aggressive mech being viable, siege tank is losing its shine. Battlehellion + warhound + viking is so much more mobile that supercedes how good siege tanks are vs ground units.
Should warhounds get -1 range? Like the awkward old immortal role where you have a high-dmg vs armor unit but it's in the front lines. I think tempests need a semi-original speed disability nerf. Notice how thors' ground attack takes a long time to prepare but almost no recoil? Tempest by default, flies with its cannon charged up. It fires immediately on demand and then enters a very long recoil. I suggest something like Tempest speed reduced to 25% when in recoil. Description would be 'losing engine powers during it's charging sequence'. The problem is taking down a tempest when you didn't go air. It's stupid to be forced to go air because your opponent goes air. This slow-down after attacking makes tempests nearly impossible to be used for kiting against ground units. -===========- I think the damage on swarm host isn't as obscene as its gas cost. 200/150/4 imo. The fact that a Zerg is building them with the same gas cost of a mutalisk and then suddenly camping a huge army of 8~12 high-dps invisible spawners outside your base a minute after infestation pit. They need a slow down on how fast and how many can be made to give players some reaction time. |
2012-09-06, 20:54 | Link #7847 | |
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
|
Quote:
Warhounds don't have AA and overpowered on the ground. And like Paranoid Android said, Battlehellion+ warhound + viking is moreorless a "1a Protoss like deathball" because it takes away the leapfrogging ability of siege tanks which uses micro and skill and spectator-wise much more interesting to see. Much better to see a battlehellion + siege tank + [some factory based AA unit that is cheap and is good against armour air] army ala vulture + siege tank + goliath which used the siege tank as the backbone for dps but being skillful to see since you had to leapfrog groups of tanks, vultures for anti-light/screening support and goliath for anti-air support. With warhounds... its more or less 1a since they don't need leapfrogging and they are almost better than siege in every way but range. More dps, more health, less supply and cheaper... That to me is poor design since it takes away the siege tank role which is by design a superior unit. It's the same argument for the reaver vs collosi argument and you'll see how "hated" the collosus is around the sc community for its 1a nature. I don't know but this is just a personal suggestion, but if blizzard so advanent on not giving us a cheap factory based AA and wants terrans to use vikings, maybe merge the mech and air upgrades together - instead of veh wep, veh arm, ship wep, ship arm ... merge them to mechanical weapons, mechanical armour and to compensate make it 150/150 for level 1, 225/225 for level 2 and 300/300 for level 3, instead of the 100/100, 175/175 and 250/250 respectively. Regardless something needs to be done about warhounds ground damage and tempest's range since it gives terran an huge advantage in the early/mid game and a huge disadvantage in the lategame... sounds like WoL amplified where terran lategame is bollocks... Last edited by Pocari_Sweat; 2012-09-06 at 22:53. |
|
2012-09-06, 22:51 | Link #7848 | ||
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2012-09-06, 23:21 | Link #7850 |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
|
I highly doubt that.
Everytime Terran gets something new or tries something new, Zerg QQs and it gets nerfed to hell. Everytime Zerg gets something new or tries something new, Terran QQs and they tell Terran to learn to play and adapt. |
2012-09-06, 23:38 | Link #7852 | |
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
|
Quote:
Or for another example... when best player of the world back then (for about half a year) IM_MVP finally popularized a viable lategame composition against Zerg in the form of mass ghosts... blizzard nerfed the ghost to oblivion to the point it's pretty much not used in TvZ anymore. And just prior to the nerf Dongraegu (who by that time took over Nestea as the best Zerg in the world) was using ling/bane/ultra with infestor comps that would roll over the mass ghost style, but blizzard went ahead and nerfed it anyway. Btw, balance aside (which is atrociously in Zerg favour due to the stupid queen range buff which was NOT needed considering the matchup was widely recognized as the best spectator wise and also balanced at 51%/49% in Korea (Terran ever ever slightly), I think TvZ is turning out to be the worst non-mirror matchup now. It's practically Terrans going 3 CC and Zerg's get 3 hatches w/o gas defending with PURE QUEENS (spend all larvae on drones) whilst Terran does a max army make or break doom push on the Zerg's 4th (just prior to the snorefest Broodlord/Infestor deathball) to decide the game. Where's my frakeen marine/medivac/tank vs ling/bane/muta microwars that was the cream of the SC2 era which NO ONE got sick of watching because it was just amazing. GJ Blizzard for fucking it up. PvZ is not much better in that lategame is determined by a fail or win mothership vortex. I guess TvP is still decent... until protoss gets deathball status and 20+ warpgates kick into play. /rant Last edited by Pocari_Sweat; 2012-09-07 at 04:06. Reason: Added angry rant |
|
2012-09-07, 03:25 | Link #7853 |
On a mission
Author
|
Innovation is bad. Play the game like Blizzard intended, or they nerf bat will hit.
The grand majority of the community, myself included, are terrible players and have knee jerk reactions to whoever's winning the most with the latest fad. They should not be listened to. Nipping the bud of innovation is bad. Imagine if modern Blizzard balanced BW, lol P players are like Noe fans.
__________________
|
2012-09-07, 09:38 | Link #7855 |
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
|
What does True Tears go to do with Starcraft 2 or Blizzard
Anyways, rejoice Terrans. In Hots, Ravens get a speed increase from 2.25 to 2.5 and an acceleration boost from 2 to 2.25 and HSM energy cost reduced from 125 to 100. That means ravens move faster and can launch 2 seeker missiles each! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=366873 Now Blizzard, all you need to do is change the range from 6 to 9 (to make it in line with storm and fungal) and wola, terran has a viable lategame transition unit. |
2012-09-07, 13:42 | Link #7856 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-09-07, 16:14 | Link #7857 | |
On a mission
Author
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-09-09, 07:34 | Link #7858 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
|
For those with a NicoNico account:
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18827067 And the source of the MMD Zerg models: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18822438
__________________
|
2012-09-09, 18:40 | Link #7859 |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
|
Lately I've been playing 2v2 with a friend; me as zerg, him as terran.
We already have a decent opening with Hellions/Zergling rush, but we don't really know what to build in mid and late game, as unit combos. Any ideas what Terran and Zerg units work well together, and cover each other's weaknesses? |
2012-09-09, 18:45 | Link #7860 | |
On a mission
Author
|
When I was still playing it'd be Mutalisks, and later Brood Lords with your average terran army of bio and some tanks. Add in some infestors for stupidity. Brood Lords are retardedly OP so any thing terran has that can shoot down air units and provide a meatshield is fine (ie viking/tank)
There is no way both players can defend both their mineral lines from mutas and launch a proper offense against you. Also, from what I've noted, queens got +2 range in the past year, so they are like no early timing window weakness that Terran can use against Zerg? How do you beat that? Why was I stupid enough to main Terran anyways? Just a small note: Quote:
In addition, BW's missile turrets were incredibly cheap. They died fast but bought excellent amounts of time. The viking doesn't really provide this, since it's expensive and you simply can't get enough out to do anything meaningful against an earlier mutalisk harass. Sometimes it's very situational. En masse, goliaths weren't very hot, but a player that knew to build just the right amount benefited greatly. As an added bonus, mech play in sc1 shat on lurkers and quick hive which were popular to cheese a win out of you.
__________________
Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-09-09 at 20:03. |
|
Tags |
blizzard, starcraft, windows |
|
|