Aquarion EVOL - generic discussion thread

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Well, I don't ship them, but I completely expect the same thing as you

Maybe they'll all be one big happy family

I want to see Kagura and Mix interact. It would be comic gold... and possibly very violent sex/gattai-ing.

Yunoha needs to whip out her human form and wow-Andy right into a coma.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Yes I did. But unfortunately, you can't tell "questioning" from "becoming upset." If you don't recall, it was a question.

I do recall, and I can tell the difference. I guess you don't know that starting a line with "News flash" is a clear sign of cynicism. And you did not phrase your "question" as a question at all:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

News flash: Kawamori did troll the shippers in Frontier. The unresolved triangle was partly his idea along with members of the staff. Now, if you had specified between the series or movies, the movie definitely holds your words. However, the series does not.

And given the fact that for some parts of the series, the situation would not allow for that and other parts she was injured for quite some time, she had justification to stay out. Your point doesn't hold. As a matter of fact, in 7, Milia had given up on being a pilot. She wasn't there to be a pilot round the clock, she only did it when it was necessary. Maybe your argument should rather return to SDF. Then perhaps you could find ways to hold water.

My statement was an "example." And my point isn't about any in-series explanation; it's about the staffs of these shows. "Millia being injured" or whatever is irrelevant, because it was the staff who made it that she was injured, and it's the staff who writes the story setups where the female pilots take a backseat to the male pilots. You're once again losing sight of what I'm talking about.

How is others agreeing that your words are bull trolling?

"Others?" So, now there are fictional people in your head? You were the one who (very insultingly) said "your posts were boring." That's either trolling or flaming. Pick your poison.

I hate to chop it up for you but: MOST FEMALE PILOTS BECOME LIKE THAT BECAUSE THE WRITERS THINK THEY'LL LOOK BETTER LIKE THAT!

Nice attempt to cover up that you totally missed my point by trying to twist it. You talk about how my point is sexist and try to dock me on it, when my whole intent all along was to point out the sexism in this.
But you are once again rubbing your own face in dirt, because this line here once again proves you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying, because your line once again is illustrating my point, which you are supposedly debating against. My whole point being that the staffs of mecha shows keep relegating female pilots to either being insignificant or bad pilots. You say it's because the staff thinks they'll look better as something other than good pilots who can influence the battles; this would mean that the staffs don't believe the girls would be best as pilots.
It's not like I'm saying the staffs are made of rabid sexists who beat their women down into submission, though.

I'm a writer myself. I prefer to have most of my female characters out of the cockpit because fighting for women is better with hand-to-hand combat, it looks cooler, especially to guys. But remember that writers also tend to cater towards what their fans might want. Quite a bit of Gundam does that by removing female pilots and putting in males (regardless if they have experience or not). And if males screw up, nobody notices because they only see the females. You're not the first person to make that mistake either. However, a lot of the time, the females are their to be the negotiators and romantic interests to various characters, so they have other purposes. Regardless of what you said before, they aren't "useless" to the storyline, they often have roles outside of piloting.

Actually Japanese anime tends to shaft girls in shounen/seinen anime fighting as well. Bleach? Two female captains out of the 13 Soul Society captians the series started with. And only one of those ever actually fights. Orihime Inoue is practicular useless for combat, and Rukia, while getting to look cool every now and then, is often quickly mowed down by a male bad guy. Rurouni Kenshin? Name one female combat character who was particularly impressive. (I don't know if you've seen this series, but you get my point)
ONCE AGAIN you prove you aren't paying attention. "Useless to the storyline period?" I never once said that. "Useless to the storyline as pilots, i.e. someone who takes part in combat?" Absolutely, because, again, the stereotype is that mecha (most fighting in general, in fact) is a guy thing.

And why the hell should I watch Gundam? What, just to validate my point? It's a stupid show! (No offense to longtime fans.) Every time is another plot and sadly, none of them are any good. It has the longest running sequels for a mecha show so far yet the only reason it holds anything is because of its mecha. It sucks for plots and you barely notice there's romantic interests in the shows because the trailers never show it. It's mostly action or character growth, never anything else. It's boring and ridiculous. Not to mention the studio has been going on for years on whether or not it should shut down. They always run out of ideas. And then they come out with another Gundam that's ever more stupid.

I never said you had to watch Gundam. But having not watched it, you're missing a large chunk of info required to make any worthwhile commentary on it. When you hire a football commentator, do you look for someone who has no idea what the rules are? No. When you look for somebody to do a movie critique/review/commentation, do you look for somebody who hasn't seent he movie in question? Nope. How can you undestand what I'm talking about when I reference the female shaftings in Gundam if you have no idea what I'm talking about? Bringing up how "boring" it is or whatever is completely irrelevant. And while I could debate your points (a lot of people in the Gundam subforum would find fault with you ), that would be largely off-topic.

Not every person has watched Gundam. You actually are saying that every mecha fan should now watch Gundam. Let me tell you something: Gundam ain't worth it.

See above. And no I'm not, that's just you putting words in my mouth.

I grew up watching Wing and Seed, both of which were really stupid and lame. I preferred to watch Vandread (which had some great female pilots, I tell you) because it was funnier, more than Wing or Seed and therefore gave me a sense of home. The Wing movie (or OVA in Japan) was much better but still lacked any quality to give me attachment to Gundam.

Completely off-topic too now. >.>

To say I have to watch a long-run mecha like Gundam, which realize is just one long series written by one person who'll never change his mind, is stupid. Really, it's like you're saying I've only used Macross as a fight. If that's the case, I should also use Infinite Stratos.

More word-putting-in-mouth. Which just makes you look more like a troll, you know.

And let's see, my list:

• Super-Dimensional Fortress Macross, Frontier, Zero, Plus, Seven (in that order)
  Vandread
  Gundam Wing, Seed
  Escaflowne
  Aquarion, EVOL
  Infinite Stratos

hat's all I can think of off hand. Maybe it'll wrack my brain more once I get my DVDs back. I'm sure there's at least six more to that list.

I'm not exactly new to mecha.

Maybe you didn't realize it so I'll give you this one, but "And if you don't watch mecha anime..............well, then you're not really in a good position to be commenting on mecha anime" was intended to be a general statement, not aimed at you specifically.

As long as you realize you said it and not me.p

Nice attempt at "cut+paste out of context." Because that little line was followed by explanation.

Except it's the writer's choice and you don't get a damn say. You want to make a good female pilot? Write it. Send it in. And don't be surprised if they don't think it's a good idea. The fact of the matter is, you're fighting with air.

More insulting phrasing, I see. Of course, your lines here don't refute my point at all, you realize.

And quite honestly, could you actually picture her as an amazing pilot? She's too cocky for her own good. If she really was to be taken serious as a pilot, she'd have to be more calm like Zessica is now. Though Silvia had mellowed, it wasn't enough to actually be helpful but rather get in the way.

So because she's cocky, she can't be a good pilot. Right. Not seeing the mutual exclusion there. There are lots of cocky characters with good skillsets. Not to mention that cockiness is toned down as the series progresses, through a thing called character development.
To use a non-anime example, Special Agent Anthony Dinozzo of the TV series NCIS is not just extremely cocky, but he's also extremely annoying. He steals food and appreciation gifts from his teammates, constantly belittles them, invades their privacy, etc. But he's a popular main character of the show who influences the plot as a field agent, not as a spectator or computer operator number 8. And don't say being an investigative agent isn't relevant with being a pilot in this context. We're not talking about which one could beat a Shadow Angel better, we're talking about cockiness.

If mecha anime actually ever had hot female pilots drawn beautifully like ever, then you'd be correct; however, you aren't. Almost all female pilots ain't exactly draw "to look good."

Wow, evading my point much? Who's talking about great character designs/character art/how good the characters look physically? "Looking good" is just a general off the hand comment.
And actually, Nena Trinity from Gundam 00 is hot (she's still a murderous psychopath though), Yohko from Gurren Lagann is blazingly hot, the female pilots of Super Robot Wars, anime and games, are hot (some in the loli sense of course... ) Yeah, I could go on but you get the point.

He didn't use it for Milia... not even once. So he doesn't do it for all characters. He never did it for Klan either.

Missed point again. Millia and Klan aren't the heroines of their series-es. Minmei and Misa need saving at several points of the original Macross. Sara needed saving in Macross Zero. Ranka needed saving in Macross Frontier TV. Sheryl needed saving in the Macross Frontier movies, though not in the final battle. And of course there's the original Aquarion.
Kawamori didn't actually direct Macross 7, M7: The Galaxy is calling me, Macross 7 Encore, or Dynamite 7, though. (he was involved in mecha design and story concept)

It varies on his storyline, what he's chosen to write, and what plot he is following. There's obviously reasons for why he shafts certain female pilots. He obviously sees more of a use for them or simply wants confrontation. And 90% of the time, Kawamori has a tenancy to realize "oops, we're at the final two episodes, now it's time for a confrontation but... I've got all this unresolved crap." He often tends to punch everything in 50mins of footage and chop out all of the none useable characters. Hell, in the OS, he shafted everyone but Apollo, Sirius, and Toma; or didn't you notice?

I did notice. But Sylvia is the one who got turned into the cliche damsel in distress that Kawamori has an over-taste for. I just hope he doesn't rinse and repeat again; he's already done the rinse and repeat once in Aquarion EVOL. (mysterious guy helps with Sousei Gattai, offers advice, a few episode later he's revealed as the commander; Fudou Zen is pretty much just Fudou Gen 2.0 so far)

Except in Infinite Stratos, the girls were the best.

How long do you think Ichika is going to stay the inexperienced newbie in that series? He's already showing the usual great potential from episode 2. He's only going to get better as the series goes on......assuming the series does go on, anyway, what with this business about IS losing its publisher. Though I've seen manga/novel titles lose their publisher before (Jinki seems to have a curse with this....), so there's a chance it'll recover.

Anyway, this seems to possibly be going the way of a potential flamewar, so that's curtains for me on this particular end of my point.

the next episode will hopefully show me more of Zessica's personal side. I've seen her pilot, I've seen her be kinda bitchy, I've also seen her sexy, but now I want to see her deeper side, the person whom she really is. So hopefully that will come the next episode.

Actually we haven't seen her really pilot yet. She piloted the Aquaria pre-Sousei Gattai and got her butt kicked; we need to see her pilot post-Sousei Gattai and do the butt kicking.

[EroKing]

So much serious discussion. Time to distract you guys!

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Also, not commenting on the whole speculation and shipping thing, just some food for thought: we've seen Amata instinctively know what to do in Aquarion, we've seen him use the legendary (Fudou's words, not mine) Mugen Punch, we've seen Aquarion peeping creepily at shota!Amata (pretty sure that was supposed to be a symbolic representation of something) and the last of what we've seen of his memories was Aquarion taking Alisia (his mother? sister? childhood idol? she's much older than him that's for sure) away from him. I think we can safely say that he's connected to Aquarion on a very deep level which most likely has some relevance as far as reincarnation shenanigans are concerned.

Another interesting person is Alisia, with her connections to Silvia (name, hairdo, played her in the movie) and her obvious importance to the plot. And she's also connected to Amata.

Amata is the incarnation of Aquarion, hence why he has no smell. He's the incarnation of a pair of wings -_-

[miketyson]

To keep it light-hearted: imho the funniest thing they could do with Yunoha is have her turn into a smoking hot chick, but *only* during gattai. Then, use her to keep trolling Andy, who seemingly won't get to gattai with a girl until near the end of the series.

[LoveMeKags]

Spoiler for ending discussion:

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I do recall, and I can tell the difference. I guess you don't know that starting a line with "News flash" is a clear sign of cynicism. And you did not phrase your "question" as a question at all:

The question is in the "specific" piece. Whether or not you took that as cynicism, that's your fault. News flash was a wake up call to the fact you did not specify series from movies, and considering a lot of people consider the series better, you have to specify. How is that being cynical?

"Others?" So, now there are fictional people in your head? You were the one who (very insultingly) said "your posts were boring." That's either trolling or flaming. Pick your poison.

Oh, so now you're saying I've imagined quite a few people posting here that they disagree with you? Honestly, now you're insulting me, and I don't like that.

My whole point being that the staffs of mecha shows keep relegating female pilots to either being insignificant or bad pilots. You say it's because the staff thinks they'll look better as something other than good pilots who can influence the battles; this would mean that the staffs don't believe the girls would be best as pilots.

That's not what I mean at all. I stated it in the "writing" piece if you actually read that. They don't like to put females in the piloting seat because they want to make money off the girls. They usually throw them into the "damsel in distress" area because it usually makes females watch the show just to get the romantic side of it. Regardless of the matter, if they do throw people into the piloting piece, like they did with Sheryl for a single episode, they do horrible at it to make the guys look better, because people often tend to believe that women are useless. And sadly, it just makes it seem sexist. Very rarely is a series with a powerful girl written by a man, it's almost always written by a female. Because men usually insert a male character to rescue her from danger.

Bleach? Two female captains out of the 13 Soul Society captians the series started with. And only one of those ever actually fights. Orihime Inoue is practicular useless for combat, and Rukia, while getting to look cool every now and then, is often quickly mowed down by a male bad guy.

I'm sorry, but bringing Bleach into this isn't gonna help you because there were at least two enemies that were enemy and they were pretty good at their skills. Rukia is able to assist Ichigo often. She's more useful than Orihime in this case. But that doesn't make them any more useless. Each girl has something the other does, and that is what makes it important that one is able to assist better than the other. Rukia is able to fight to help as best to her physical ability and Orihime is able to heal.

Comparing Bleach to this doesn't do you much justice because the two girls in the show are too different to compare, and one actually is still improving on her skills. Perhaps now that's she's a Vice Captain, in the next arc, you can argue this, but for the longest while, she was struggling to gain enough power to reach that level. She justifies my point of females being drawn where the writer takes her.

Rurouni Kenshin? Name one female combat character who was particularly impressive. (I don't know if you've seen this series, but you get my point)

I hate to say that Kaoru was pretty skilled, albeit she wasn't a combat warrior, but then again, women in that show weren't meant to be combat warriors. It was based on the Meiji Era. Women in that show were commonly housewives or healers, with the exception of Misao.

Absolutely, because, again, the stereotype is that mecha (most fighting in general, in fact) is a guy thing.

Not all fight series. Fate/Stay Night would go against you there, as would Gai Rei Zero. Oh yes, and let's not forget the best fight show for women: High School of the Dead.

The problem is, only the male fighting shows are remembered. I can't find one person in my school who's heard of Sailor Moon or Fate/Stay Night, even Madoka (which was awesome by the way) but they all know DBZ, Bleach, and Gundam; one even knew Digimon. That's what the staff/production agency mostly goes towards because they want to do more seinen shows. I have rarely seen a show like Sailor Moon in years until Madoka.

I never said you had to watch Gundam.

That's what it sounded like with your freaking smart remark.

But having not watched it, you're missing a large chunk of info required to make any worthwhile commentary on it. Bringing up how "boring" it is or whatever is completely irrelevant. And while I could debate your points (a lot of people in the Gundam subforum would find fault with you ), that would be largely off-topic.

Sadly, no. I'm not missing your info here because I just don't want to retrieve. You once again make it sound like you're asking me to watch it just for the sake of understanding your point. However, after having watched two of them, I'm not entirely pleased with the series at all. And so, I never watched any ones beyond it. It's up to me whether or not I find a series boring. And compared to Macross, I'd prefer Macross as opposed to Gundam.

More word-putting-in-mouth. Which just makes you look more like a troll, you know.

No, you basically made it clear that I haven't stated my history with mecha. How is it troll to state that I've watched more mecha?

Maybe you didn't realize it so I'll give you this one, but "And if you don't watch mecha anime..............well, then you're not really in a good position to be commenting on mecha anime" was intended to be a general statement, not aimed at you specifically.

Maybe you should've specified since it was in our argument.

More insulting phrasing, I see. Of course, your lines here don't refute my point at all, you realize.

How is it insulting to state a cold hard fact? I think the same thing too. I hate it. I'd love to write my own series with some characters and do it a certain way, but I can't. It ain't my series. And therefore, we don't get a damn. So how is that insulting?

So because she's cocky, she can't be a good pilot. Right. Not seeing the mutual exclusion there. There are lots of cocky characters with good skillsets. Not to mention that cockiness is toned down as the series progresses, through a thing called character development.

Oh, so that isn't why she nearly got killed quite a few times? She even acknowledged that she was too cocky at one point. Those bad traits get them killed. That's why she couldn't become a great pilot, because unless she mellowed out, she couldn't. It's not to say it's her fault, you can only do so much with 26 episodes. And sadly, by the time 25 and 26 came around, Kawamori went "crap, I'm on the last two... must do dogfight!"

Wow, evading my point much? Who's talking about great character designs/character art/how good the characters look physically? "Looking good" is just a general off the hand comment.

Um, you miss what "meant to look good" means? Character designs are what make them look good. And sadly, not a lot of notable, and I mean really stuck in the memory and popular, are good looking. Rather, the quality of their art is rather low, especially when drawn for multiple episodes. Even the OS had episodes where Silvia looked like absolute crap. Relatively, they care less about the animation for females like her. They prefer to glorify the other females, like the leads in the triangle (an example being Frontier).

Millia and Klan aren't the heroines of their series-es.

And your point was "pilots" in mecha anime, not heroes.

Minmei and Misa need saving at several points of the original Macross. Sara needed saving in Macross Zero. Ranka needed saving in Macross Frontier TV. Sheryl needed saving in the Macross Frontier movies, though not in the final battle. And of course there's the original Aquarion.

Except none of them were pilots like your original argument was about. I state pilots and you give me this...

And Sheryl did need saving in the series, you just choose not to see the moments in which she was saved by Alto...

I just hope he doesn't rinse and repeat again; he's already done the rinse and repeat once in Aquarion EVOL. (mysterious guy helps with Sousei Gattai, offers advice, a few episode later he's revealed as the commander; Fudou Zen is pretty much just Fudou Gen 2.0 so far)

I find that to be a salute. Considering he's been working on nothing but Macross for years since the OS, there's been at least a 11-year (if not slightly less) gap. It's more like a salute, like a 10-year anniversary.

I actually like the fact he did the same beginning. It writes things out in black and white. And remember that Aquarion wasn't as popular back when it aired or hit DVD, so not many people know it. So watching EVOL kinda fills them in without them having to watch the OS.

How long do you think Ichika is going to stay the inexperienced newbie in that series? He's already showing the usual great potential from episode 2. He's only going to get better as the series goes on......assuming the series does go on, anyway, what with this business about IS losing its publisher. Though I've seen manga/novel titles lose their publisher before (Jinki seems to have a curse with this....), so there's a chance it'll recover.

I hate to tell you this, but Infinite Stratos has been over for a while now. They've talked about a sequel but it's unlikely. It wasn't as popular as they'd hoped (well of course it wasn't, considering all the female pilots outranked Ichika for so long). Ichika is actually saved by the girls in the end and then returns the favor by saving them. Your point kinda falls apart with the last episode.

Actually we haven't seen her really pilot yet. She piloted the Aquaria pre-Sousei Gattai and got her butt kicked; we need to see her pilot post-Sousei Gattai and do the butt kicking.

I'm talking about I want to see her personality more. I want to dig below this facet we're given so far and explore what's hidden beneath. You could say that I want to find reasons to like or support her. So far, we've only gotten a little into Mikono's past and her personality, and so, I want to view more on Zessica and Amata, and certainly Kagura.

Hey, I won't deny that Kagura is hot.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Um...you're making my head hurt from the confusion. I don't know about your reality, in mine Frontier has NO MOVIES. Series ended a few years ago....

Will you quit it?! You're weirding me out

Sorry, LoP.

But to me, there is an OVA, of just AR. I push Sheryl out the door and just put all AR scenes together.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I hate to tell you this, but Infinite Stratos has been over for a while now. They've talked about a sequel but it's unlikely. It wasn't as popular as they'd hoped (well of course it wasn't, considering all the female pilots outranked Ichika for so long). Ichika is actually saved by the girls in the end and then returns the favor by saving them. Your point kinda falls apart with the last episode.

Hmmm, more "I'm not paying enough attention to what people are saying," I see. I'm not talking about the series. I'm talking about the novels. That was kinda made clear when I was talking about the novel publishings and all that.
Of course the series is over. That was also kinda made clear with the whole final episode bit and all.

I'm talking about I want to see her personality more. I want to dig below this facet we're given so far and explore what's hidden beneath. You could say that I want to find reasons to like or support her. So far, we've only gotten a little into Mikono's past and her personality, and so, I want to view more on Zessica and Amata, and certainly Kagura.

I know you're taking about her personality. I'm saying we haven't really seen her pilot yet, since she's hasn't actually gotten to be the head in a Sousei Gattai. (in response to the part where you said we've seen her pilot)

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Hmmm, more "I'm not paying enough attention to what people are saying," I see. I'm not talking about the series. I'm talking about the novels. That was kinda made clear when I was talking about the novel publishings and all that.
Of course the series is over. That was also kinda made clear with the whole final episode bit and all.

Since I don't read Japanese, I haven't read the novels, so when I talk of Infinite Stratos, I'm always talking of the series. Notice that quite a lot of people only hear about an anime when it becomes a series or movie. That's no exception.

I know you're taking about her personality. I'm saying we haven't really seen her pilot yet, since she's hasn't actually gotten to be the head in a Sousei Gattai. (in response to the part where you said we've seen her pilot)

Excuse me for wanting to get away from the discussion about piloting for ONE SECOND.

In that case, I should say I want to see Mikono pilot. She seems to have some skill, considering she's able to fly the craft safely, so she's bound to have some skill. I wouldn't put it by her to have been trained a little to fight if necessary.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Since I don't read Japanese, I haven't read the novels, so when I talk of Infinite Stratos, I'm always talking of the series. Notice that quite a lot of people only hear about an anime when it becomes a series or movie. That's no exception.

And? I made it clear I was talking about the novels, when I specifically said the novels.

Excuse me for wanting to get away from the discussion about piloting for ONE SECOND.

In that case, I should say I want to see Mikono pilot. She seems to have some skill, considering she's able to fly the craft safely, so she's bound to have some skill. I wouldn't put it by her to have been trained a little to fight if necessary.

I'm NOT talking about the debate about female pilots and their roles in mecha animes. Oh, and by the way, I'm the one who said he was dropping the argument. And I did.
What I was talking about there was in response to your "I've seen her pilot, be sexy, etc." line, and I was making a simple passing comment that she hasn't piloted as the head in Sousei Gattai yet. It had nothing to do with the now dropped debate about the role of female piloting. (which you still did pick up a few posts above, by the way)

[Lord of Pandemonium]

Originally Posted by miketyson

To keep it light-hearted: imho the funniest thing they could do with Yunoha is have her turn into a smoking hot chick, but *only* during gattai. Then, use her to keep trolling Andy, who seemingly won't get to gattai with a girl until near the end of the series.

Egads NO!!! I can't stand spam or discussions that lack substance.If you want me to leave just say so. I am very proud to be an otaku and If I love something...I really want to discuss it. I don't understand why everyone keeps posting comments about ship to ship combat. Seriously, we're all adults--well most of us are, right? iI'm not mad, passionate yes. I am not mad. We can't just disagree sometimes. Just because we disagree doesn't make it a fight. It just mean we see things from different perspectives. It's romance, so it might be shippy but I don't see this as ship to ship combat. Especially since the ships haven't been established in the series. It's merely our preferences and why. I don't see why we have to walk on eggshells. If you don't want to discuss it, than don't. If you have an opinion and you don't want anyone to comment on it - why post it in a discussion thread on a public forum? You could just BLOG and disable comments. Then you wouldn't have to see any opinion but your own and no one could question or disagree with it. ..I don't get it

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I don't think Kagura is an ensemble darkhorse... he's featured pretty prominently in the promotional artwork and stuff, to say nothing of the actual anime itself. (I expect Jin to be the surprise favorite, he already has a nice number of fangirls. )

Also, not commenting on the whole speculation and shipping thing, just some food for thought: we've seen Amata instinctively know what to do in Aquarion, we've seen him use the legendary (Fudou's words, not mine) Mugen Punch, we've seen Aquarion peeping creepily at shota!Amata (pretty sure that was supposed to be a symbolic representation of something) and the last of what we've seen of his memories was Aquarion taking Alisia (his mother? sister? childhood idol? she's much older than him that's for sure) away from him. I think we can safely say that he's connected to Aquarion on a very deep level which most likely has some relevance as far as reincarnation shenanigans are concerned.

Another interesting person is Alisia, with her connections to Silvia (name, hairdo, played her in the movie) and her obvious importance to the plot. And she's also connected to Amata.

Also, not commenting on the whole speculation and shipping thing, --Nor am I trying to prove anything. I just like the way the screenies look in my posts and it saves time, because you can see what I am talking about. Plus some people are at work or school and they're not supposed to be online and don't have the luxury of checking episodes. So I post them, so you can get a clearer picture of what-I-ama-thinkin and the reasons I think the way I do. I saw your comment and it did what you intended. It made me think...because you were kind enough to share with me and the rest of of EVOL fans. I thought I might return the favor. . So I just want to add some side dishes and appetizers to the meal you prepared. So they can sample them while they partake of your food for....um.. thought I figure why not serve a FEAST for the brains I have an eccentric typesetting-style at times. If I think someone will actually read it. Otherwise I don't bother (like in the Bleach Forum here)

You can skip ahead to the parts where I say, I am now convinced that Amata is part of Apollon and Kagura...I do believe that he could be Silvia and I say why but Episode 6 made me rethink that. Again...I am not trying to prove anything. It's just a snack for our minds



Mugen Punch--is Aquarion's signature move and if you watched the series you'd know that all Aquaron's battles wasn't because of Apollo. It did a lot of amazing things based on the power of the elements--which was needed to overcome whatever problem they were having

Evol's Mugen Punch--the legendary move, wasn't because of Amata.
Fudo told how it was born and he did not give credit to Amata. He said "In Aquarion's chest is YOUTH"


then he showed the card that had a heart with joined hands. A "UNION"

Mugen was born because A. Mikono decided to stop being passive and fight for once, even if she could get hurt. She chose to fight this time instead of running away and hiding.



It was a symbol of the their joined hearts and hands. It's not because of Amata alone, it was because of Mikono for the most part and their UNION. (of all three)

When they first formed Aquarion, there was no GATTAI Orgasm and it was a turbulent union that could easily come undone as he had with Andy.



Also because Cayenne and Amata let Mikono join in the fight instead of trying to protect her by sheltering her and keep her from harm. (incidentally this is the moment I KNEW she was Silvia)



Because they all decided to share the pain and struggle together. Amata was a part of that union but he wasn't the catalyst. Mikono and their acceptance and support of her was Otherwise they could have done it with Andy. The elements have to support each other or else the union will be unstable, and easily undone.
As soon as they did. Aquarion started vibrating --it's heart began to beat



then they truly united. They had those orgasms then they clasped hands and basically sang like they were a Broadway ensemble (I expected little animals to come and join them )



It was then Fudo said Mugen Punch was reborn ...The Original Mugen was used for a different reason


However he never attributed to Amata. Aquarion is deeper than mecha, fights that are cg masturbation, fanservice, and orgasms



In Episode 1--Amata knew what to do, but if he were a part of Silvia. He would know since Celiane is the original pilot. Silvia is also a pilot and De'Alisia is Silvia's last name. Also except for the very time they don't say "Sousei Gattai" to bring out Aqaurion. I wonder why that is....

Celiane/Silvia is based on Artemis who was also known as "Selene"

The dove is her symbol and Silvia/Sirus and Artemis have all been depicted with wings on their backs just like Amata....



Also Apollo called out to Aquarion but he didn't know what to do either. Apollonious appeared and told him. So Amata has one up on him and it may mean he is Apollon in this life, or part of him.

Or it maybe he knows the same way Fudo knows but he isn't Apollon either. *shrugs* It's kind of like he planted the suggestion. What's up with the glowing crystals as he said that ..I dunno


Aquarion did watch him, but Cayenne also saw Mikono with Aquarion as a child too. It's kind of odd that both of them are seen with Aquarion Apparently Aquarion likes stalking,peeping and killing little children


Jin/Jun also said that "That's the form they used to fight Kagura. I wonder if it's as strong as THE ORIGINAL" as if that's a fake one and not the original (which may account for Apollon being absent..or not. I just wonder what he meant by that


I admit that had me convinced Amata was part of or connected to Silvia, then I saw episode six.

Which made me think that this ....

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Amata is the incarnation of Aquarion, hence why he has no smell. He's the incarnation of a pair of wings -_-

Might true after all. Either he's part of Kagura or he's just some creation of Mikage.
TBH...I think that the "Reigler" is Amata not Mikono.
I have no doubt that, Kagura is "The Chosen One" and he is truly Apollo/Apollon. The person whom Mikage speaks of, but the Reigler he follows so doggedly isn't Mikono. She's just his mate but he's also drawn to Aquarion & Amata <---The Reigler. I believe that Amata is whom they were searching for in Episodes 1 & 2 .


(GO AWAY THREESOME-SANDWHICH-IN-WHICH-KAGURA-&-AMATA-IS-THE-BREAD-AND-MIKONO-IS-THEIR-MEAT-THE-MIDDLE- THOUGHTS!!!!)

Originally I thought Amata might actually be Celiane/Silvia/Sylvie like Sirius because... of a few instances. You mentioned a few of them in the quote above--

I actually lean toward Shrade being part of Mikono/Silvia/Sylvie/Celiane more than Amata.



Because... NNNNNOOOOOOOOOO I am out of time. I will tell you what changed my mind as dessert. All of our brains have gorged themselves on this luxurious banquet you and I prepared

Keep in mind that this isn't from a shipper's perspective. Merely a fan who loves this series and now loves EVOL. I like to talk about things I love and this is long..forgive. I have a lot to say...this is actually the short version

This has been "one to grow on" with LoP

PEACE!!!(running late now!!)

[Zuul]

The reincarnation theory that appeals to me the most at the moment is :

Amata = Appollonius
Zess = Celiane

Kagura = Appollo
Mikono = Silvia.

I'm well aware it's a bit off. It's about what I would like to see, not what I deem more logical.

Besides the Alicia girl doesn't fit in it, and I'm sure she has an important part to play in the reincarnation mess.
For the moment I just think she's Amata's mom/big sister.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

EI don't see why we have to walk on eggshells.

It's not walking on eggshells, more like... people have different opinions and preferences, right? Some people ship this, some people ship that, some people don't ship either, some people don't give a rat's ass about shipping... so hardcore shipping will inevitably draw arguments and fights in such spaces, either because of different opinions, or because people find it grating. (Of course all this could be solved with a subforum and a "SHIPPERS HERE" topic but apparently that's too much to ask for...)

(Btw as for pictures, I sometimes read this forum at work and IMHO pictures are way more conspicious than walls of text... ^^;; )

Re: Mugen Punch. Obviously it takes three people to do a Mugen Punch if only because Aquarion is made up of three Elements. But note that nobody at DEAVA has ever done a Mugen Punch before Apollo appeared on the scene, nobody's ever done a Mugen Punch without Apollo, and nobody's ever done a Mugen Attack in Evol's world in 12.000 years before Amata appeared on scene. It's been said already that whatever Amata is he can draw out Aquarion's true power, so.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

When they first formed Aquarion, there was no GATTAI Orgasm

That's most likely because they're trying to tone it down. ^^;; We haven't had many "proper" gattai in Evol so far. Definitely no guys-only gattai orgasm. :/

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

However he never attributed to Amata. Aquarion is deeper than mecha, fights that are cg masturbation, fanservice, and orgasms

I... I was doing it wrong all this time? XD;;

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Or it maybe he knows the same way Fudo knows but he isn't Apollon either. *shrugs* It's kind of like he planted the suggestion. What's up with the glowing crystals as he said that ..

Er, Fudou was just doing the commentary.

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Aquarion did watch him, but Cayenne also saw Mikono with Aquarion as a child too. It's kind of odd that both of them are seen with Aquarion

Not quite odd. Cayenne's visions of Mikono's black wedding and also Aquarion taking her away all take place on that weird hill with the weird Neo Deava crosses. Amata's memories(???) of Alisia being taken away by Aquarion show the very same place. Note that Alisia has been probably kidnapped (or maybe went along willingly), probably the way Donar's sweetheart was kidnapped as well, and it's likely that this fate awaits Mikono as well. (Also note that it seems Altair is collecting women for some weird purpose, although Mykage's little monologue about their true Eve makes me think they want to revive something, probably their world itself. Also note Izumo's line about their "motherland" Vega.)

Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium

Jin/Jun also said that "That's the form they used to fight Kagura. I wonder if it's as strong as THE ORIGINAL" as if that's a fake one and not the original (which may account for Apollon being absent..or not. I just wonder what he meant by that

Actually, Jin didn't say that. What he said was along the lines of "It's the same form they used against Kagura... I already know all about it" because he's already seen it in action. (If you don't believe me, this is what he says in Japanese: カグラと対戦したときの形態だね。スペックは検証済みだから･･･) Genius translation strikes again.

Some more food for thought, re: Alisia and Altair. So she's floating in stasis among what seem like machines. We've seen Mykage kidnap at least one woman and in one episode we hear a report to Izumo about freshly kidnapped Reaiglers (sp??) not working because dimension travel broke them and they can't perform their function anymore. This prompts Izumo's line about motherland Vega refusing them (ie. Altair). Then we have a helpful shot of a wasteland... and a couple of episodes later there's Mykage waffling about Altair's true Eve.

[Xaturas]

Seriously you people ...
TL;DR
I don't know if I'm glad or not that I didn't watch the first version.
Thanks to that I can avoid all that mumbo jumbo you are spewing left and right about reincarnations and stuff, and can just enjoy the story presented to me.

[kuromitsu]

Well, I'm mostly talking about Evol...

and frankly anything (OK, almost anything) but that off-topic flame about female pilots or whatever. o__o)


Also, since everyone's posting pictures... I have a picture of the Vectors' launch HQ.

Spoiler for pic:

...yeah. :DDDDD

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Also, since everyone's posting pictures... I have a picture of the Vectors' launch HQ.

To be fair it's an exact copy of the system from the OS... except we haven't seen the silly long sliding tubes that drop the pilots into the Vector cockpits.

Assume it's just a nod to the original and move on

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Adigard

To be fair it's an exact copy of the system from the OS...

IIRC they weren't this ahem, obvious in the original. XD At least I don't remember seeing the top part, then again, maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention...

[miketyson]

Lord of Pandemonium: I enjoy your posts, even if I don't respond; they certainly have filled me in on a lot of background from the original series.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

We've seen Mykage kidnap at least one woman and in one episode we hear a report to Izumo about freshly kidnapped Reaiglers (sp??) not working because dimension travel broke them and they can't perform their function anymore.

This part I wasn't sure of, if it's fresh in your memory I'd be curious how certain you are? I seem to recall it being slightly more logically disjointed: the "reiaglers" they'd captured weren't usable, and (separately?) several of the machines broke down due to the strains of dimensional travel. So the way I interpreted it was more of a "on the one hand, we had yet-another poor harvest; on the other hand, we lost more machines due to the rigors of dimensional travel".

This doesn't rule out the reiaglers being an important part of Altair's technological base -- I'm leaning that way myself -- but the connection was a bit more implicit the way I remembered understanding it. But I could be wrong on both counts -- misunderstood it at the time and/or misremembered it now -- so if it's still fresh I'd appreciate your input.

Also: I wouldn't worry about the of Reigler, I did some searching and wasn't able to find any candidates, so until we know what they are Reiagler is as good as any. FWIW I first thought they might've be "恋愛glers", but I listened carefully and there's *definitely* not even the faintest hint of an 'n' sound when they're pronouncing the term.

At a big-picture level: the original series was enough of a flop I just generally doubt that Kawamori (et al) are going to feel too obligated to color within the lines of the original series' canon and themes unless they specifically want to. They may stick close to it, they may not; their hands are free. Thus I'm backing away from too much reincarnation speculation at this time, b/c although I'm sure some people will turn out to be reincarnations of others, I'm kinda expecting the way events play out to be different enough that having knowledge of the reincarnations (e.g. from previous series) won't be all that useful.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by miketyson

This part I wasn't sure of, if it's fresh in your memory I'd be curious how certain you are? I seem to recall it being slightly more logically disjointed: the "reiaglers" they'd captured weren't usable, and (separately?) several of the machines broke down due to the strains of dimensional travel. So the way I interpreted it was more of a "on the one hand, we had yet-another poor harvest; on the other hand, we lost more machines due to the rigors of dimensional travel".

I just checked it, it's right at the beginning of episode 3, before the opening. The report says, sorry for the lousy translation, it's 2 AM over here: "The materials we have captured on Vega* turned out to be inferior quality again. Space-time travel made all Reaiglers undergo deterioration that caused them to lose their innate function."
*I can't phrase this well in English - literally he says "that we collected on Vega" but also implies that it was done forcefully. He uses the word "rokakubutsu" (鹵獲物) which means "spoils" or something along those lines. I'm sure there's a word for it but I can't think of it... orz

Anyway, IMO there's a clear connection between the two sentences: the materials were inferior because dimension travel broke them. And while it certainly sounds as if he was talking about inanimate materials, the only thing we've seen them collect so far is people. Also there's Izumo's line about their "mother" planet Vega refusing them, and then Mykage's talk about finding that certain Reaigler to be their true Eve...

Anyway, I'm just trying to connect the dots here because obviously I have nothing better to do at 2 AM.

[miketyson]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I just checked it, it's right at the beginning of episode 3, before the opening. The report says, sorry for the lousy translation, it's 2 AM over here: "The materials we have captured on Vega* turned out to be inferior quality again. Space-time travel made all Reaiglers undergo alterations that caused them to lose their innate function."
*I can't phrase this well in English - literally he says "the material that we collected on Vega" but also implies that it was done forcefully. He uses the word "rokakubutsu" (鹵獲物) which means "spoils" or something along those lines. I'm sure there's a word for it but I can't think of it... orz

Anyway, it certainly sounds as if he was talking about inanimate materials, but given that the only thing we've seen them collect so far is people, also Izumo's line about their "mother" planet Vega refusing them, and then Mykage's talk about finding that certain Reaigler to be their true Eve...

Anyway, I'm just trying to connect the dots here because obviously I have nothing to do at 2 AM.

Oh interesting, thanks a lot for checking on that. Talking about women in that manner certainly dovetails nicely with the hypothesis that Altair really screwed up royally somewhere along the line and is now basically devoid of women (or some such). FWIW I'd sarcastically suggest "booty" for "鹵獲物", at least in this context; it's a bit tongue-in-cheek but it works for what's apparently going on in Aquarion, lol.

I like the thought going into this show, too: the reason the abductors are so half-hearted about abducting (capturing maybe low 10s of people at once) is b/c the goods aren't surviving the trip yet, so now point ruining the merchandise until you know how to transport it safely.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by Zuul

The reincarnation theory that appeals to me the most at the moment is :

Amata = Appollonius
Zess = Celiane

Kagura = Appollo
Mikono = Silvia.

I'm well aware it's a bit off. It's about what I would like to see, not what I deem more logical.

Besides the Alicia girl doesn't fit in it, and I'm sure she has an important part to play in the reincarnation mess.
For the moment I just think she's Amata's mom/big sister.

there is no appollonius, just like there's no celiane and silvia. Silvia is a subset of Celiane. Celiane can not be reincarnated unless it has its whole parts or unless her split again at which point, both are Celiane.

As for Appollonius, Apollo IS pretty much appollonius minus his wings which became aquarion. His soul wasn't split in the sense it became 2 beings. It's more like he ripped off his own power source and it became Aquarion (iirc, he already had aquarion back when he was apollonius). So unless apollo's soul split into 2 as well, there's no apollonius reincarnation