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Old 2017-11-06, 01:17   Link #1341
monir
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You're thinking about the senate. And beside, I was talking about the mood of the country and what direction it will go toward. 2018 election will be first definitive proof if the Republican will held sway or they are in a downward spiral.
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Old 2017-11-06, 08:34   Link #1342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Though there are not all that many Republican held seats up for grabs in 2018.
There are 23 Republican House seats that were won in 2016 by Hillary Clinton. The Republicans have also seen a rash of retirements in the past couple of months, and more are expected in the next few weeks as filing deadlines for the 2018 primaries loom on the horizon.

Take a look at https://cookpolitical.com/ratings/house-race-ratings. They rate many more Republican-held House seats as competitive than Democrat-held ones.

Perhaps you were thinking about the Senate where the Republicans have many fewer seats at risk than the Democrats. I expect little change in the Senate; in fact the Republicans might gain a couple of seats.

The Democrats still have to contend with the effects of partisan gerrymandering and geographic self-segregation by party. I estimate these obstacles will require the Democrats to win at least 53 percent of the two-party national Congressional vote to have a shot at winning the House. The single most important factor influencing this outcome will be Trump's job approval rating. The Democrats hold a substantial lead in "generic" Congressional voting intention, but that lead narrows when polls are restricted to likely voters.

If the Democrats are to take back the House, they need to mobilize their potential voters and get them to the polls. One of the more surprising findings in that Post/ABC poll is that self-reported likely turnout is about equal among both Republican and Democratic voters.

Quote:
The Post-ABC poll suggests Democrats’ antipathy toward Trump has not translated to greater motivation to vote, with an identical 63 percent of Democratic-leaning and Republican-leaning registered voters saying they are absolutely certain to vote next year. The poll shows Democrats’ 11-point vote advantage shrinking to two points among people who voted in the 2014 midterm elections, underscoring one of Democrats’ main challenges next year: ginning up enough enthusiasm to prevent the spotty turnout of recent nonpresidential years.
Many of the most pro-Democrat groups are less likely to show up at the polls. This is especially true for young voters who might be expected, given their views on issues, to support Democratic candidates. In the 2014 off-year election, the Census Bureau estimates that turnout among voters aged 18-24 was an abysmal 17 percent.

Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2017-11-06 at 08:49.
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Old 2017-11-06, 11:04   Link #1343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
You guys were so busy blaming each other that you forgot to come up with actual ideas for a solution. It has been almost a full year since Trump got inaugurated and goddamn Bernie and Hillary supporters are STILL arguing which side to blame. Keep it up and by the time you finally sit together to discuss actual steps Trump will be on the doorstep of ruining the US for another four years.
Not a Democrat, but I can only see this infighting and desire for purity to be of incredibly toxic and useless debate, and the media fanning it certainly does not help. It doesn't really matter who agrees on whoever is less stupid, the result is the same. It is the equivalent of arguing over what's for lunch tomorrow, when there is a bomb in the room right now.

It should be known on how quickly the GOP band together despite their differences and despite murmurings a lot of the GOP supports Trump still....
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Old 2017-11-06, 17:09   Link #1344
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because the GOP mostly agrees with Trump
They just don't like how he is overt about it
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Old 2017-11-06, 17:16   Link #1345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Obviously there were was a failed political strategy, which is what I was talking about above if you bothered to read. Fact is though that this isn't just a Hillary problem, it's a Democratic problem. If Sander's message was so amazing he would have won the primary.

Furthermore, not a single time has Bernie or any other person been able to give a good example of how Hillary's donor interests impacted a policy decision for her.
We should table the coincidence of Hillary taking money from the fossil fuel industry as she pushed fracking around the world, the weapons deals cut for Saudia Arabia after donations to the Clinton Foundation as they continue to violate international law, and her stance on a bankruptcy bill that changed after taking donations from the big banks, among others. And to address the reality of the DNC pushing the primary in Hillary's favor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Not a Democrat, but I can only see this infighting and desire for purity to be of incredibly toxic and useless debate, and the media fanning it certainly does not help. It doesn't really matter who agrees on whoever is less stupid, the result is the same. It is the equivalent of arguing over what's for lunch tomorrow, when there is a bomb in the room right now.

It should be known on how quickly the GOP band together despite their differences and despite murmurings a lot of the GOP supports Trump still....
I only bring up this topic when someone chooses to fire the signal for engagement. I have repeatedly expressed my desire to move on from this subject in favor actual policy proposal relevant to the Michigan factory worker who lost his job to the overseas market, for example. Whether the policies are passed under incumbent democrats pushed to this position else they lose their seats or from grassroots democrats looking to take over the party, the implied false equivalence has no bearing on the underlying economic grief that pushed America to elect an authoritarian into office

I should also mention the grassroots wing of the democratic party is not in favor of a purity test, in the sense that someone like Keith Ellison is the bare minimum most of them are willing to support. I'd like you to elucidate the definition of purity though, and whether any virtue signal of the term is warranted when an opposing position has shown to demonstrably fail; the continuous compromise post-Reagan is precisely why we are in this quandary
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Old 2017-11-06, 17:21   Link #1346
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Dems have an identity crisis.

I'm not sure how mentioned it first, but Dems are basically Eisenhower Republicans nowadays.
and they're even struggling with that because of how much money has entered politics
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Old 2017-11-07, 02:21   Link #1347
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Trump says:
I have great confidence in King Salman and the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, they know exactly what they are doing....

....Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years!
Anyone remembers about the little exchange between Trump and Prince Alwaleed in late 2015? Trump is most certainly gloating with his arrest.
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Old 2017-11-07, 15:28   Link #1348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka View Post
Whether the policies are passed under incumbent democrats pushed to this position else they lose their seats or from grassroots democrats looking to take over the party, the implied false equivalence has no bearing on the underlying economic grief that pushed America to elect an authoritarian into office.
I think it's highly relevant. It's what allowed an authoritarian to be elected into office, either by inaction or deliberate action. It's also the constant rationalization inspired by the mainstream media that causes non-American posters to either react in disgust or laugh at the circus. And many Americans would join in the laughter, because effectively they believe the government just put out a new clown with a different face and it's only all for show but business is usual. Except it isn't this time and the clowns have access to nukes.

But as annoying as some might be, the numbers are what counts, and sure there's probably some Russian meddling in it, but it should have never been so close in the first place.


Quote:
I'd like you to elucidate the definition of purity though
Modern political discourse is currently one of polarization to an extreme degree. Everyone in between essentially left out. But in simpler terms, purity represents a level of utopianism that means little to those in between.

To be fair, I've also stated I'm not a Democrat so I'm looking from the outside. And perhaps there are internal issues I'm not privy too. But on the other hand, to echo most non-American posters who are afraid of nuclear radiation entering the atmosphere around here, I also don't give a fuck either. The world saw Republicans get behind Trump, and they also saw Democrats getting behind 2 different people and maybe even no one. That is what actually happened.

They need to fix this shit. They are the folks with the most power to fix things. So the civilized world has their hopes behind them. Don't fuck it up.

You talk about moving ahead and dropping past ills. Fine. If the Democrats can band together and nominate a paper bag (the same paper bag), I will vote for the paper bag in for president. [And not question where it was made]
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2017-11-07 at 15:41.
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Old 2017-11-07, 20:44   Link #1349
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...74747316928513

Didn't even wait to throw him under the bus.

Last edited by MCAL; 2017-11-07 at 21:40.
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Old 2017-11-07, 21:44   Link #1350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I think it's highly relevant. It's what allowed an authoritarian to be elected into office, either by inaction or deliberate action. It's also the constant rationalization inspired by the mainstream media that causes non-American posters to either react in disgust or laugh at the circus. And many Americans would join in the laughter, because effectively they believe the government just put out a new clown with a different face and it's only all for show but business is usual. Except it isn't this time and the clowns have access to nukes.

But as annoying as some might be, the numbers are what counts, and sure there's probably some Russian meddling in it, but it should have never been so close in the first place.




Modern political discourse is currently one of polarization to an extreme degree. Everyone in between essentially left out. But in simpler terms, purity represents a level of utopianism that means little to those in between.

To be fair, I've also stated I'm not a Democrat so I'm looking from the outside. And perhaps there are internal issues I'm not privy too. But on the other hand, to echo most non-American posters who are afraid of nuclear radiation entering the atmosphere around here, I also don't give a fuck either. The world saw Republicans get behind Trump, and they also saw Democrats getting behind 2 different people and maybe even no one. That is what actually happened.

They need to fix this shit. They are the folks with the most power to fix things. So the civilized world has their hopes behind them. Don't fuck it up.

You talk about moving ahead and dropping past ills. Fine. If the Democrats can band together and nominate a paper bag (the same paper bag), I will vote for the paper bag in for president. [And not question where it was made]
Fortunately, the grassroots wing of the Democratic party from Justice Democrats to Brand New Congress is more than happy to alleviate the circumstances that pushed America to elect a demagogue into office. In the meantime, please inform me when the establishment wing of the Democratic party will work to end America's military interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan, when it will decide to stop arming terrorist states including but not limited to Saudi Arabia, when it is going to stop the Drug War when the solution is legalize, tax, and regulate substances instead of arresting somebody for wanting to tweek their conscious, when they are going to push for medicare for all as 45k Americans die every year due to not having healthcare and being the only modern nation where medical bankruptcy is tangible, when they move to start eliminating the fact 50% of the nation makes $30k a year or less, when they start to work against the Free Trade Deals that have financially devastated the states that previously went to Obama but then went to Trump as rallied religiously against TPP and NAFTA, and when they start working toward a Green New Deal as the world will be hard-pressed to mock any political circus if said world were uninhabitable. If not, the grassroots Democrats will replace them, and enough of the Republicans (though they are certainly not against Republicans willing to support these policies), that change can be enacted so that a demagogue cannot feed on that anxiety to rise to power. We should also acknowledge that even if Hillary won and operations continued as usual, it would not address the underlying problem before another demagogue rises to power; we should count our blessings that the current demagogue was not smart enough to expose himself only after he ingratiated himself with the populace

The establishment Democrats will continue to blame Bernie Sanders and his ilk for losing the election, most likely. In the meantime, can I suggest you peruse the Justice Democrats' platform so you can see how they want to "fix this shit"?
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Old 2017-11-07, 22:17   Link #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka View Post
when it is going to stop the Drug War when the solution is legalize, tax, and regulate substances instead of arresting somebody for wanting to tweek their conscious
ok man after read that and some of the things which you are asking i stopped to "agree with you" and think which what you are askin no one gonna do don't matter if rep or dem or any other party because it's are just a sort of "insane asks", or close to that, drugs no srry if a person want to take they life off with it, it's not ok, it's only show how that person are in need for a true help and drugs don't do any good things.
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Old 2017-11-07, 22:48   Link #1352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akuma Kousaka View Post
Fortunately, the grassroots wing of the Democratic party from Justice Democrats to Brand New Congress is more than happy to alleviate the circumstances that pushed America to elect a demagogue into office. In the meantime, please inform me when the establishment wing of the Democratic party will work to end America's military interventions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Yemen, Somalia, and Pakistan, when it will decide to stop arming terrorist states including but not limited to Saudi Arabia, when it is going to stop the Drug War when the solution is legalize, tax, and regulate substances instead of arresting somebody for wanting to tweek their conscious, when they are going to push for medicare for all as 45k Americans die every year due to not having healthcare and being the only modern nation where medical bankruptcy is tangible, when they move to start eliminating the fact 50% of the nation makes $30k a year or less, when they start to work against the Free Trade Deals that have financially devastated the states that previously went to Obama but then went to Trump as rallied religiously against TPP and NAFTA, and when they start working toward a Green New Deal as the world will be hard-pressed to mock any political circus if said world were uninhabitable. If not, the grassroots Democrats will replace them, and enough of the Republicans (though they are certainly not against Republicans willing to support these policies), that change can be enacted so that a demagogue cannot feed on that anxiety to rise to power. We should also acknowledge that even if Hillary won and operations continued as usual, it would not address the underlying problem before another demagogue rises to power; we should count our blessings that the current demagogue was not smart enough to expose himself only after he ingratiated himself with the populace

The establishment Democrats will continue to blame Bernie Sanders and his ilk for losing the election, most likely. In the meantime, can I suggest you peruse the Justice Democrats' platform so you can see how they want to "fix this shit"?
I certainly agree that the establishment Democrats shirking on these issues is also why I don't like them. But. Priorities.

We are running to risk of losing years of progress made for racial and gender equality.

I'm not saying these issues aren't that important. But tell that to the transgender people that got booted out of the military. The Legal residents being detained because they might have become a "terrorist country". Tell that to the people in Japan and South Korea living with the concern of nukes over their head. Those people
that are in danger of losing their healthcare. Tell that to the nearly 1 million people that risk being deported because of what their parents did. Regardless of what kind of unity we find in 2018 much less 2020, these things are already happening, and even whatever rope a dope Democrat or even random spineless harem lead Republican that got elected would not be pushing that hard to get rid of Obamacare, the very legacy that the Democrats have been doing this decade with Obama nor would they be dealing with deporting masses of people.

These are the direct affects of the political climate, regardless of whoever is right or has a better position.

Is this all a ruse to distract from those above issues you listed? Most likely. But if Americans cannot even get to get together to decide on relatively basic issues, then we're pretty damned screwed anyways. What's really missing from the common narrative is that things can and always get worse. Just grab a history book.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
ok man after read that and some of the things which you are asking i stopped to "agree with you" and think which what you are askin no one gonna do don't matter if rep or dem or any other party because it's are just a sort of "insane asks", or close to that, drugs no srry if a person want to take they life off with it, it's not ok, it's only show how that person are in need for a true help and drugs don't do any good things.
Throwing people in jail rarely does any good things either. In America, prison is not about rehabilitation. There's a reason why we have such a high ratio of incarceration and known for a brutal and uncaring system that creates more hardened criminals. We throw people in jail because prison labor can be a valuable resource, as well as giving police free reign to target minorities and terrorize their communities because "there might be drugs" In fact, while funding for schools is for debate, prisons is not, since why bother educating people when it'd just make them harder to arrest and be used as indentured servants?

Do some research on Nixon. He makes Trump look like an alright person even if he was better at hiding it.
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Old 2017-11-07, 22:53   Link #1353
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On the subject of drugs, I partial agree with Akuma, but would add controlled use to the list. If it is taxes, regulated, and controlled in specific locations, than if someone wants to tweek, trip, or whatever, they'll be doing it inside a government building where they , in theory, can't harm anyone else if something goes badly. Tax and regulatory revenue would be where the government backs back all those billions to trillions of dollars spent on the War on Drugs.
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Old 2017-11-07, 23:06   Link #1354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I certainly agree that the establishment Democrats shirking on these issues is also why I don't like them. But. Priorities.

We are running to risk of losing years of progress made for racial and gender equality.

I'm not saying these issues aren't that important. But tell that to the transgender people that got booted out of the military. The Legal residents being detained because they might have become a "terrorist country". Tell that to the people in Japan and South Korea living with the concern of nukes over their head. Those people
that are in danger of losing their healthcare. Tell that to the nearly 1 million people that risk being deported because of what their parents did. Regardless of what kind of unity we find in 2018 much less 2020, these things are already happening, and even whatever rope a dope Democrat or even random spineless harem lead Republican that got elected would not be pushing that hard to get rid of Obamacare, the very legacy that the Democrats have been doing this decade with Obama nor would they be dealing with deporting masses of people.

These are the direct affects of the political climate, regardless of whoever is right or has a better position.

Is this all a ruse to distract from those above issues you listed? Most likely. But if Americans cannot even get to get together to decide on relatively basic issues, then we're pretty damned screwed anyways. What's really missing from the common narrative is that things can and always get worse. Just grab a history book.
I do not dispute the setbacks we face on social issues, though we should be thankful Trump was this open about his callousness and keeping everyone on their toes instead of slowly building it in; history books also tell me a certain chancellor in 1930s Germany did not run on a platform of gas chambers. I'd rather face a psychopath flailing a knife than a sociopath with a dagger behind his back
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Old 2017-11-07, 23:06   Link #1355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
On the subject of drugs, I partial agree with Akuma, but would add controlled use to the list. If it is taxes, regulated, and controlled in specific locations, than if someone wants to tweek, trip, or whatever, they'll be doing it inside a government building where they , in theory, can't harm anyone else if something goes badly. Tax and regulatory revenue would be where the government backs back all those billions to trillions of dollars spent on the War on Drugs.
They wouldn't have to legalize all drugs, but the penalities for possession really need to be lessened; the fact that you can get more jail time possessing drugs than killing someone is really the system out to get people.

Funny how the country does not care about the health of their citizens and would willingly let people die if they can't afford health care because their decisions got them there so the free market/force of nature/Sun God means their consequences are just, but the same issue comes with drugs and out come the massive state intervention because they really don't care that people are addicted to drugs, but it's gotta be the ones that the pharmaceuticals peddle out to the masses and thus approved and be money is to be made.
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Old 2017-11-07, 23:28   Link #1356
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Well, a lot hinges on the last leg of "legalize, tax, and regulate"; you would not legalize a substance that causes your skin to fall off or make you want to bite people's heads off, but you would legalize substance that gives the same general high as that illegal substance. It is a similar issue with firearms, in so far as you would not grant civilians a rocket launcher, tanks, or drones; there is a line somewhere, the debate should be where that line is
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Old 2017-11-07, 23:35   Link #1357
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The line is definitely not at the right place atm. Except for truly dangerous substances, I'm thinking we should be more of the "ticket" kind of category instead of treating people like criminals but rather violators. And weed should not be involved at all here.

Of course, any criminal acts done under the influence of a drug should be penalized much more heavily.
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Old 2017-11-08, 01:53   Link #1358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...74747316928513

Didn't even wait to throw him under the bus.
Signs of things to come for the Democrats? Mind you, Trump didn't carry Virginia, so may be this is consistent with usual politics.

Even the lot of hardcore Trump supporter thinks Dems should be in charge of Congress because they believe it will be easier for Trump to achieve legislation with Dems in charge.
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Old 2017-11-08, 12:19   Link #1359
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Current conversation this thread is pretty funny in light Dem victory last night and by a huge margin I might add.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisdrache View Post
You guys were so busy blaming each other that you forgot to come up with actual ideas for a solution. It has been almost a full year since Trump got inaugurated and goddamn Bernie and Hillary supporters are STILL arguing which side to blame. Keep it up and by the time you finally sit together to discuss actual steps Trump will be on the doorstep of ruining the US for another four years.
I'm pretty damn sick and tired of it too, when will people realize the Dems are and have always been a big tent party? We practically align most of the key issues (healthcare, education, taxation, criminal justice reform, less military spending, civil and social progress) which are all entirely opposite of the GOP, but we decided engage in pointless purity contests because we prioritize a different order of those things we support. Yes some of Dems of have business ties and there few others on that lean more conservative then the rest like Joe Manchin, but that isn't whole party. Furthermore FDR got us path social economy and he was centrist corporate democrat. The party isn't perfect sure, but to treat pragmatic minded Dems as some sort Republican lite is ridiculous.

To be frank Bernie did way more damage to party than he helped and contributed very little, but lastnight proved the party as whole can win without his assistance when all the candidates he dropped support lost. In 2016 should have done what his pick Tom Perriello did when he lost to Northam who turned to endorsed much sooner instead of promoting conspiracy theories about things about things he damn well knew wasn't true.

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Old 2017-11-08, 15:00   Link #1360
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http://reverepress.com/news/democrat...ctory-virginia
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